Poll: What we want vs what manufactures are doing

Poll: What we want vs what manufactures are doing


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Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I’d probably pay $1500 for a G9 II in a GX body.
They did release a somewhat dumbed down GX9 just a few months after the G9. There is hope and one of the reasons I am not going to rush the G9II is that I was an early adopter of the G9 (which I have never regretted) but would otherwise bought only a GX9 if I had known that the GX9 was 'on the way'. However the end of the story was that I did end p buying a GX9 as well and have never regretted buying it as well.

I use both of them in conjunction for serious outings each with a great lens on board and have no trouble switching between them.

I am sure to add a G100 to the clutch next session. Same sensor same basic camera underneath and lack of IBIS has never been an issue for me. I cannot think of any other reason why the G100 is lacking as a basic 4/3 sensor camera tool.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
I keep seeing several posts and threads regarding the size of M43 cameras, more so recently with the G9II release. It seems like there's 3 camps here:
  • Those fine with the size of things now, including the G9II and EM1x because of features/ergonomics when using longer lenses, etc.
  • People who want small, to very small (PEN-F, GM5 respectively)
  • People who aren't really satisfied no matter what
I'm sure I excluded some people, but still that kind of begs the question, in the age of reels, tic-tok, vloggers, etc.. what should M43 really focus on?

Here's poll (because we all love these): What does M43 need to do to draw more people in (besides market the brand better, because we all know they don't do that well).
You're creating a false dichotomy. There's room to create a variety of products - look how diverse Sony's lineup. From ZV-E10 to the A1, they have a really interesting variety of bodies and lenses.

Panasonic and OM System don't have the same resources as Sony, but I suspect they will end up introducing a wider range of products. The industry is shifting, people are buying older digicams and niche products such as the Fuji X100V. Nikon's jumped on the nostalgia bandwagon. Panasonic and Olympus aren't stupid, they will have products that compete in these segments as well. You can argue that OM System already does with the OM-5, but I suspect they will have a PEN offering that is capitalizing from their new focus on being the camera for outdoor adventurers with a product that is more compact, very capable but still weather sealed.
 
Some ideas.

A GM6 with a 20.3MP Sensor, Phase-Detection AF System and faster shutter mechanism (maximum mechanical shutter speed of up to 1/4000 of a second & maximum Flash sync speed of 1/160 sec.) And 4K video. Would people really buy this if it was $1,200? Because I think that's exactly what it would go for.

A GX9 Mark II with Environmental Sealing, a 25.2MP Sensor & Phase-Detection AF System.

For more serious vloggers: A G100 Mark II with Environmental Sealing, a 25.2MP Sensor & Phase-Detection AF System, faster shutter mechanism (maximum mechanical shutter speed of up to 1/4000 of a second & maximum Flash sync speed of 1/160 sec.) IBIS, Oversampled 4K Video, Higher bitrates/Frame Rate options for 1080p, PCM audio, & no recording limits. Make it slightly bigger if needed.

For ultra budget vloggers: Basically a G100 with no viewfinder for the extra low budget. Should have Oversampled 4K Video though. Maybe call it a "G100F" or "GF9". It should come with a coldshoe windshield. Put the rest of the slow mechanical shutters with their 1/500th of a second limits in this model.

A GH7 with a Phase-Detection AF System. But that's probably already in the works.

Lenses: A 200-500mm (400-1000mm equivalent) variable aperture lens, a 17.5mm F1.7 prime & a 20mm F1.7 Mark III with AFC. All with Environmental Sealing.
 
Looking back at the cameras I have had over 50+ years... there are things that matter, and many that frankly do not.

I'd gladly settle for an M4/3 that resembles my old Panasonic LX5 with a better sensor (20MP would be nice, and I would be really tickled if it is SQUARE), better IS and interchangeable M43 lenses...

- a straightforward set of PASM modes,

- full manual control shutter speed, aperture and ISO while the body does auto white balance, AF and image stabilization;

- a fully auto mode that will "always get the shot no matter what" (like the LX5 iA mode)

- C-AF that will stay locked on one particular face in a crowd (the OM-5 won't - but the old GX85 I had did that well enough)

- fast, accurate and reliable AF, plus a manual AF mode that REALLY IS manual (the OM-5 tries to override manual focus always after a few secs, regardless, manual isn't really manual)

- NO FOCUS BREATHING in video !!!! OM I am looking at you, the OM-5 is appalling in this respect.

- reasonably fast to power up and quick shot-to-shot, with bursts at say 5 fps.

... and in a smallish body (OK so I settled for an OM-5, but no bigger please).
 
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Some ideas.

A GM6 with a 20.3MP Sensor, Phase-Detection AF System and faster shutter mechanism (maximum mechanical shutter speed of up to 1/4000 of a second & maximum Flash sync speed of 1/160 sec.) And 4K video. Would people really buy this if it was $1,200? Because I think that's exactly what it would go for.
I tried the GM5, too small for me the control freak, so this is not my cup of tea. So far the GX850 (a.k.a. GF9) could be the smallest that I can use.
A GX9 Mark II with Environmental Sealing, a 25.2MP Sensor & Phase-Detection AF System.
I shall buy one without hesitation. Not neccessary WR because G1 showed me how resilience a non WR Panny body can be and in last 8 years GX85 demonstrated it's ability to shoot under all sort of weather condition without problem.

GX9-II, 25Mp OSPDAF, no deidicated EC dial, use the GX7 front grip, keep the tile evf will be it.
For more serious vloggers: A G100 Mark II with Environmental Sealing, a 25.2MP Sensor & Phase-Detection AF System, faster shutter mechanism (maximum mechanical shutter speed of up to 1/4000 of a second & maximum Flash sync speed of 1/160 sec.) IBIS, Oversampled 4K Video, Higher bitrates/Frame Rate options for 1080p, PCM audio, & no recording limits. Make it slightly bigger if needed.
Is it a miniature version G85/95 having the 25Mp OSPDAF sensor?
For ultra budget vloggers: Basically a G100 with no viewfinder for the extra low budget. Should have Oversampled 4K Video though. Maybe call it a "G100F" or "GF9". It should come with a coldshoe windshield. Put the rest of the slow mechanical shutters with their 1/500th of a second limits in this model.
G100 without evf will fall back to the original GF9/10 line of product! They are under big discount now.
A GH7 with a Phase-Detection AF System. But that's probably already in the works.

Lenses: A 200-500mm (400-1000mm equivalent) variable aperture lens, a 17.5mm F1.7 prime & a 20mm F1.7 Mark III with AFC. All with Environmental Sealing.
--
Albert
** Please forgive my typo error.
** Please feel free to download my image and edit it as you like :-) **
 
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Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.

Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
 
Interesting that a younger market should be thought to be a good area to explore.

When I was younger I had little spare money for use in buying optional luxury goods such as cameras. Far too committed to getting a career together, settling down, getting a roof over our heads and starting a family and all that this entailed - "a camera" meant "instamatic" (aka present day "mobile phone camera").

It was only after the financial hump that I explored a cheaper end slr body and a few lenses. It was then only years later with adult family self supporting that I crazy-dipped into the photography interest that I had always wanted to try but never had the money to properly do so.

Then I spent most money on 'proper cameras' (aka dslr kit) and it was only when I realised:

1) that the image is only possible if the camera is with you at the time; and

2) that the 4/3 sensor made quite good-enough images

~ when I finally realised that buying into the larger format 135 film format kit was not really necessary

~ what was once great for the film manufacturing industry was now great for the digital camera manufacturing industry as it was a good excuse to sell kit at premium prices.

M4/3 prices of course were generally quick to catch up for their own premium kit. :). Perhaps we are all doomed to go through a similar process?

I don't think later generations are or will be any different. By the time we have both time and financial capability to invest or children's inheritance in an optional, expensive, hobby such as photography we become this demographic.

We should always leave the door open for new blood but let's not think that there is a huge younger generation out there with significant spare money to invest in a photographic hobby that will save M4/3. They are all too busy keeping up their time payments on their mobile phones.

The time will come when they are older and have more uncommitted funds they might have more spare time to spend on forums such as this one. :)

- -
Tom Caldwell
Tom

Remembering the results of polls, I meant from late 30s onwards…

Andrew
 
Our camera club are an extremely friendly and helpful bunch (we don't do competitions), however the average age is certainly above retirement and probably wel north of 70yrs.

However this year we have had 2 new young members join - probably about 25-32 yrs old.

... And coincidentally, for 'serious photography' they both shoot and develop film! For snaps they use their phone.

The next youngest member 45-50'ish, she uses cyanotype (image recorded direct onto photographic paper or coated pieces of slate, etc)

As the older members have aged many are 'downgrading' to fuji (well for some strange reason people call moving to FF 'upgrading'). But more and more are buying into m43 starting with the OM1.

For me it's great to have company, 10 yrs ago I was the only m43 shooter.
 
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
 
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
I feel the same way, but there aren’t many options for titling screens anymore.
 
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
I feel the same way, but there aren’t many options for titling screens anymore.
If AF and operating speed are not important, the Sony A7Rii is 625g and has a tilting screen. The A7Riv is a better camera but 7g heavier than the G9. It also has a tilting screen.

A
 
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
I feel the same way, but there aren’t many options for titling screens anymore.
If AF and operating speed are not important, the Sony A7Rii is 625g and has a tilting screen. The A7Riv is a better camera but 7g heavier than the G9. It also has a tilting screen.

A
 
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
I feel the same way, but there aren’t many options for titling screens anymore.
If AF and operating speed are not important, the Sony A7Rii is 625g and has a tilting screen. The A7Riv is a better camera but 7g heavier than the G9. It also has a tilting screen.

A
I have an A7RV and love that screen, but I prefer smaller cameras. Recently got a R8 and love it so far. I’m just learning to deal with the screen as that seems to be the future.
I’ve had a mix of fixed screen without EVF, tilting with EVF, and FAS with EVF for a long time. All have their strengths. I can live with any of them but I prefer to keep the FAS folded in and use the EVF and customised buttons/dials unless chimping or changing multiple settings etc.

The size and weight of the A7Rv is definitely a negative for me. I prefer the OM1 to the A7Riv unless I need the shooting envelope or tracking. For many things an EM5.3 would be great. My aged EM1.1 stills fills the smallish camera role OK. I’m hoping it carries on until OM5 used prices fall, otherwise it will be a used EM5.3.

My pet peeve is RF body style.

Andrew
 
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
I feel the same way, but there aren’t many options for titling screens anymore.
If AF and operating speed are not important, the Sony A7Rii is 625g and has a tilting screen. The A7Riv is a better camera but 7g heavier than the G9. It also has a tilting screen.

A
I have an A7RV and love that screen, but I prefer smaller cameras. Recently got a R8 and love it so far. I’m just learning to deal with the screen as that seems to be the future.
I’ve had a mix of fixed screen without EVF, tilting with EVF, and FAS with EVF for a long time. All have their strengths. I can live with any of them but I prefer to keep the FAS folded in and use the EVF and customised buttons/dials unless chimping or changing multiple settings etc.

The size and weight of the A7Rv is definitely a negative for me. I prefer the OM1 to the A7Riv unless I need the shooting envelope or tracking. For many things an EM5.3 would be great. My aged EM1.1 stills fills the smallish camera role OK. I’m hoping it carries on until OM5 used prices fall, otherwise it will be a used EM5.3.

My pet peeve is RF body style.

Andrew
 
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
I feel the same way, but there aren’t many options for titling screens anymore.
If AF and operating speed are not important, the Sony A7Rii is 625g and has a tilting screen. The A7Riv is a better camera but 7g heavier than the G9. It also has a tilting screen.

A
I have an A7RV and love that screen, but I prefer smaller cameras. Recently got a R8 and love it so far. I’m just learning to deal with the screen as that seems to be the future.
I’ve had a mix of fixed screen without EVF, tilting with EVF, and FAS with EVF for a long time. All have their strengths. I can live with any of them but I prefer to keep the FAS folded in and use the EVF and customised buttons/dials unless chimping or changing multiple settings etc.

The size and weight of the A7Rv is definitely a negative for me. I prefer the OM1 to the A7Riv unless I need the shooting envelope or tracking. For many things an EM5.3 would be great. My aged EM1.1 stills fills the smallish camera role OK. I’m hoping it carries on until OM5 used prices fall, otherwise it will be a used EM5.3.

My pet peeve is RF body style.

Andrew
If you get a chance, try the R8. Unlike my XT5, I can’t put the R8 down.

Super lightweight but comfy as hell, with elite AF and lovely files.

No IBIS, but I don’t care for what I use it for.
IBIS is a dealbreaker for me unless I’m only going to use OIS lenses or a tripod. Been using EM1 series bodies since launch so it’s part of my composition thinking. Fine without on a sunny day or for the minority of shots with a fast prime wide open.

The “small camera” and a couple of small primes is the go anywhere capture what I see kit. The GM1 works because the Panasonic kit zooms have OIS and it has a teeny popup flash.

Not keen on adding another mount…

Andrew
 
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
I feel the same way, but there aren’t many options for titling screens anymore.
If AF and operating speed are not important, the Sony A7Rii is 625g and has a tilting screen. The A7Riv is a better camera but 7g heavier than the G9. It also has a tilting screen.

A
I have an A7RV and love that screen, but I prefer smaller cameras. Recently got a R8 and love it so far. I’m just learning to deal with the screen as that seems to be the future.
I’ve had a mix of fixed screen without EVF, tilting with EVF, and FAS with EVF for a long time. All have their strengths. I can live with any of them but I prefer to keep the FAS folded in and use the EVF and customised buttons/dials unless chimping or changing multiple settings etc.

The size and weight of the A7Rv is definitely a negative for me. I prefer the OM1 to the A7Riv unless I need the shooting envelope or tracking. For many things an EM5.3 would be great. My aged EM1.1 stills fills the smallish camera role OK. I’m hoping it carries on until OM5 used prices fall, otherwise it will be a used EM5.3.

My pet peeve is RF body style.

Andrew
If you get a chance, try the R8. Unlike my XT5, I can’t put the R8 down.

Super lightweight but comfy as hell, with elite AF and lovely files.

No IBIS, but I don’t care for what I use it for.
IBIS is a dealbreaker for me unless I’m only going to use OIS lenses or a tripod. Been using EM1 series bodies since launch so it’s part of my composition thinking. Fine without on a sunny day or for the minority of shots with a fast prime wide open.

The “small camera” and a couple of small primes is the go anywhere capture what I see kit. The GM1 works because the Panasonic kit zooms have OIS and it has a teeny popup flash.

Not keen on adding another mount…

Andrew
 
The choices are a little too narrow for me. I like Panasonic Lumix cameras overall - so I buy them. Size isn't an issue. Neither is video. There's a nice range of cameras, both still and video. Taking the long view, it's a very mature and comprehensive lineup of cameras.

I wonder if this "fussing" happens with APS or full frame? I don't ever think I've seen debates like these over Nikons, Canons or Sonys.
 
  • JKdad wrote:
Want them with a full set of features, but smaller and of course: cheaper?

Impossible always wins?
I think it’s somewhat doable. I think of what the A7CII and A7CR are doing. They lack a couple things of the non-C series, but not really that many things. And since many “features” are software based, they really aren’t taking up room anyway.

With a minor redesign of the PEN-F, but without changing the body size and shape, you could have a smaller, lighter, full featured, OM1 that’s tailored to photographers who prefer smaller. The same could be done on the GM series. Both companies now have PDAF, and could try seeing if AF was these two camera’s only Achilles Heel.

NHT
Not chasing an existing PEN-F but I might have a good look at a PEN-FII if it ever happened. A deep long look if it has a tilt lcd.
The Pen-F didn't quite meet sales expectations, and I wonder if it was because of that flip out sideways screen. There is a significant number of us who will strenuously avoid that style of screen
Meanwhile how long might we wait for a new Panasonic regular RF-Style body? Maybe a GX8 lookalike that comes in M4/3 and L-Mount flavours?

Don't make it too long - as the A7CM does look interesting - and the GX8 is probably significantly larger than the A7CM - so the GX8II might need some slimming pills.

If I can make myself afford the A7CM Sony it gives Panasonic a long leash.

I know that Sony amazingly gave up tilt lcd with the A7C for some perplexing reason - as if RF-Style bodies work so well with an lcd hanging out on one side.
I thought that Sony might be doing something right with the A7C type but then I saw that it too had the flip out sideways thing, so crossed that off my list of future possibilities.

It seriously looks like my E-P5 pair need to last until I fall off the twig.
I feel the same way, but there aren’t many options for titling screens anymore.
If AF and operating speed are not important, the Sony A7Rii is 625g and has a tilting screen. The A7Riv is a better camera but 7g heavier than the G9. It also has a tilting screen.

A
I have an A7RV and love that screen, but I prefer smaller cameras. Recently got a R8 and love it so far. I’m just learning to deal with the screen as that seems to be the future.
I’ve had a mix of fixed screen without EVF, tilting with EVF, and FAS with EVF for a long time. All have their strengths. I can live with any of them but I prefer to keep the FAS folded in and use the EVF and customised buttons/dials unless chimping or changing multiple settings etc.

The size and weight of the A7Rv is definitely a negative for me. I prefer the OM1 to the A7Riv unless I need the shooting envelope or tracking. For many things an EM5.3 would be great. My aged EM1.1 stills fills the smallish camera role OK. I’m hoping it carries on until OM5 used prices fall, otherwise it will be a used EM5.3.

My pet peeve is RF body style.

Andrew
If you get a chance, try the R8. Unlike my XT5, I can’t put the R8 down.

Super lightweight but comfy as hell, with elite AF and lovely files.

No IBIS, but I don’t care for what I use it for.
IBIS is a dealbreaker for me unless I’m only going to use OIS lenses or a tripod. Been using EM1 series bodies since launch so it’s part of my composition thinking. Fine without on a sunny day or for the minority of shots with a fast prime wide open.

The “small camera” and a couple of small primes is the go anywhere capture what I see kit. The GM1 works because the Panasonic kit zooms have OIS and it has a teeny popup flash.

Not keen on adding another mount…

Andrew
I get it. Most of what I do with this camera entails moving people.
Makes sense.

A
 
The choices are a little too narrow for me. I like Panasonic Lumix cameras overall - so I buy them. Size isn't an issue. Neither is video. There's a nice range of cameras, both still and video. Taking the long view, it's a very mature and comprehensive lineup of cameras.

I wonder if this "fussing" happens with APS or full frame? I don't ever think I've seen debates like these over Nikons, Canons or Sonys.
This is definitely the most spirited forum in my opinion. I feel like it goes sideways way too often when people seem to constantly justify their choice of a small sensor format. Almost like some are insecure about it which is why they constantly bring it up.
 

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