Leaving m43 for full frame

Joe Lynch · Sep 18, 2023

I added a Sony A1 and Tamron 35-150 but still love shooting with the 5.3 and OM-1 with the long lenses.

I expected the A1 files to make the m43 files look pretty crude, but that didn't happen. I'd say the A1 made my m43 cameras look pretty darn good, and I quit lusting after FF once and for all except for low light and high contrast. Both systems have their place.

Lupata · Sep 18, 2023

jalywol said:
NZ Scott said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Not disagreeing at all Danny. But there is a huge difference between great kit for birding and knock-about carry everywhere kit like the GM5 provides.

The GM5 is very long in the tooth these days but is still completely unique and valued.

looking around and I see the simple, effective, economical, and still very portable G100 as a GM5 with whiskers. Also the closest thing to the GM5 ethos that can be currently bought.

Click to expand...

I’ve played with a G100 in-store and to me it felt like a downgrade from the GM5.

Click to expand...

I tried the G100 when it first came out, and had the same impression.

I LOVE my GM5. Have done so since the minute I got it 8 years ago. It's a gem.

But since my GM5 is not young anymore, and I do vastly prefer the output of the 20MP sensor, I decided to try a G100 again this summer, when they had a very good sale on them.

Much to my surprise, after using it for a couple of days, I found it to be a very capable, solid, alternative to the GM5. And, even though it's not as teeny as the GM5, it's still VERY small...and its very little grip makes it easier to hold with slightly larger lenses than the GM5. And, even though I have no complaints about the GM5's EVF, the larger one in the G100 is really a lot easier to see...

Oh, and one other thing: The photographic output of the G100 is absolutely terrific. Excellent color rendition, just a great version of the 20MP sensor and image processor. It really bests the GM5 output by quite a bit (and the 16MP sensors in general).

My suggestion?

It seems as if you have actually decided to get the Sony system. I am sure you will, indeed, enjoy it.

It just seems a shame to get rid of all of your M43 glass, when there is a small body out there that will use your lenses and give you an updated, very diminutive, kit at the same time.

So, I think, if you can find a good deal on one, you should get a G100 body, and keep your M43 lenses and it for an easy/small kit, and go to town with the Sony FF for everything else.

Yeah, I know, I am spending other people's money....but heck, why throw out all of those lenses?

-J

Better off with a clean break the OP has had his gear for a while and evidently is a gear monkey as some others here.

The idea of a FF Sony of reasonable size and weight seems to appeal to his needs and as he has no fully working mft camera by his own admission........it's a great idea to explore new frontiers with a different camera system.

I am in a similar boat now sold my boxed Pen F and my present one is in a pretty sad due to 7 years of use and abuse, the lens is no better.

I will keep it until I get my new Sony a7Cm2 or the Sony a7CR and a couple of primes, still on the fence with the final setup

Ps I don't shoot bits, landscapes or use a camera for videos(a iphone takes care of that) so with what the mft manufacturers have to offer there is nothing of note for me to go foreword there.

jalywol · Sep 18, 2023

zurag said:
Better off with a clean break the OP has had his gear for a while and evidently is a gear monkey as some others here.

? I didn't get that at all, from his posts.

Member said:
The idea of a FF Sony of reasonable size and weight seems to appeal to his needs and as he has no fully working mft camera by his own admission........it's a great idea to explore new frontiers with a different camera system.

But he has twelve M43 lenses....replacing all of those focal lengths in FF is going to be a beast.

Member said:
I am in a similar boat now sold my boxed Pen F and my present one is in a pretty sad due to 7 years of use and abuse, the lens is no better.

Holy moly, what the heck do you do to your gear????

Member said:
I will keep it until I get my new Sony a7Cm2 or the Sony a7CR and a couple of primes, still on the fence with the final setup

OMG. I hope the Sony holds up like the M43 did for you.

Member said:
Ps I don't shoot bits, landscapes or use a camera for videos(a iphone takes care of that) so with what the mft manufacturers have to offer there is nothing of note for me to go foreword there.

Well, as I said, if you don't shoot long, you can probably do very well with the small Sony FF bodies. But if you do, or you want fast lenses, the size (and cost) bulks up in a hurry. For me, since I DO shoot long, M43 still has an advantage for a chunk of what I do.

YMMV, of course.

-J

Lupata · Sep 18, 2023

As stated by OP

jalywol said:
I’ve already had the scroll wheel repaired and top plate replaced - now the viewfinder is playing up.

Reluctant to throw good money after bad.

and

jalywol said:
However, I no longer have an m43 body that is in full working condition so there’s little point in keeping the lenses.

He has not bought the latest gear over the years so he is no gear monkey and as he stated he is not going to buy a heap of lenses.

My camera works fine it gets covered in lime and other gunk due to the stonemasonry work I do had to scrape it clean many a time. I use a iphone for work related stuff these days the new camera can sit in the glovebox.

robgendreau · Sep 18, 2023

NZ Scott said:
I’ve been shooting m43 since 2010, starting with the excellent Olympus EP3, then the even more excellent Panasonic GM5.

Sick of waiting for a GM5 replacement, I bought the G85, which is a great camera but never gelled with me.

With no modern tiny m43 enthusiast camera replacement, I’m now seriously considering selling my 12 lenses and building a new system around one of the smaller full frame systems.

Is anyone else considering this?

Yes, I know some of the FF lenses are a bit bigger, but the system weight difference is no longer as great as it used to be because the weight of the bodies has become so much closer.

The f4 full-frame lenses aren’t much heavier than the f2.8 m43 lenses and offer an extra stop of light gathering, not to mention the extra dynamic range and resolution of the ff sensors.

S

Maybe I missed it but why, if you're waiting for a small GM like camera, would you change course and go for a bigger FF system?

I saw all the usual comments arguing about FF vs M43 size, but the GMs are small even by M43 standards, and often used with small primes.

I guess you've considered the RX series, but what about the GR III series?

Also, I'd keep some of the M43 stuff, like the long lenses, and get a decent inexpensive FF camera and maybe use it with wides.

But hard to tell what the goal is here.

Kent Ekasak · Sep 18, 2023

I have m43 and FF L mount.

m43 for small set up, travel and video (much better IBIS)

FF when I want better photo image.

Lens matter a lot.

Images came out of PRO m43 lens look better than normal FF lens.

Tom Caldwell · Sep 18, 2023

NZ Scott said:
Tom Caldwell said:

Not disagreeing at all Danny. But there is a huge difference between great kit for birding and knock-about carry everywhere kit like the GM5 provides.

The GM5 is very long in the tooth these days but is still completely unique and valued.

looking around and I see the simple, effective, economical, and still very portable G100 as a GM5 with whiskers. Also the closest thing to the GM5 ethos that can be currently bought.

Click to expand...

I’ve played with a G100 in-store and to me it felt like a downgrade from the GM5.

No way I will stop using my GM5 camera body as my first go-to camera body. But I am lucky enough to have a few of them and all in very good condition.

I agree that the G100 is no GM5. But all I can say as another the Johnnie-come-lately who bought the G100 only because it was very well priced in a sale. After tweaking it as close to the GM5 as I could make it work - the menus are all very much the same anyway.

I started using it and found that the GM5 vibe was there. A go-anywhere compact camera body that makes excellent images.

But I would still sacrifice the side hinged lcd (not that I like this type anyway), the moulded grip, swap the evf to the lhs and make the top plate flush. ie: give me a GM5 with the new sensor any day the extra 'features' are just gloss to hopefully shift some other users downside to a physically smaller camera body. Not really a first look prospect for a GM5 fanatic looking for a camera body that parrots the big-stuff.

But my guess is that the G100 will follow a similar trajectory to the GM5 - overlooked by most because it doesn't twang regular camera users vibes but once it can no longer be bought will turn into another little classic that will hold its value well simply because it has the right 'attitude', being really sweet to use, and can compete image wise with its larger M4/3 big brothers.

Of course it is not a GM5II and cannot ever be - but it is a great camera to use and is relatively small compared to the G9/G9II - as a result I see its utility as G9-Lite.

NowHearThis · Sep 18, 2023

NZ Scott said:
I’ve been shooting m43 since 2010, starting with the excellent Olympus EP3, then the even more excellent Panasonic GM5.

Sick of waiting for a GM5 replacement, I bought the G85, which is a great camera but never gelled with me.

With no modern tiny m43 enthusiast camera replacement, I’m now seriously considering selling my 12 lenses and building a new system around one of the smaller full frame systems.

Is anyone else considering this?

Not smaller, no. Only Sony makes "small cameras" but I'm not fond of their lens I would most likely want to use AND use on a daily basis. (I know Sony makes great lenses. But they are beyond my price range and hence 100% inconsequential, non-starter, and will never buy lenses). YMMV and more power to ya.

NZ Scott said:
Yes, I know some of the FF lenses are a bit bigger, but the system weight difference is no longer as great as it used to be because the weight of the bodies has become so much closer.

The f4 full-frame lenses aren’t much heavier than the f2.8 m43 lenses and offer an extra stop of light gathering, not to mention the extra dynamic range and resolution of the ff sensors.

If you use Canon or Nikon (24-105/4 and 24-120/4 respectively) you'll love their F4's as your main lens. If you use Panasonic or Sony's 24-105/4 you will be sorely disappointed. Sony has a 20-70/4 that's good and is probably the only lens I'd use. The Tamron 28-75/2.8 G2, while very sharp and generally great, is not wide enough for me to consider. Skip the Canon 24-240 and Sony 24-240, period. Skip the Nikon 24-200 if you care about IQ at the outer edges of the frame.

I was hoping the Nikon ZF was going to be nice and small, but looks like that won't be the case, My EM1.3 is small enough - at least until a PEN-F 2 comes out, and yes I can wait. Based on things I need to buy, I won't be upgrading for 2 years even if a Pen-F was released tomorrow - gotta live within my budget.

NZ Scott said:
S

valsan · Sep 18, 2023

NZ Scott said:
unhappymeal said:

Have you considered Sony? As much as I love my GM5 and consider it irreplaceable, something like the a6100 + 10-20 f/4 PZ and Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 and a prime or two would cover a lot of your m4/3 kit. You'd gain about 2/3-1 stop of dynamic range, DoF control and a huge upgrade in AF performance.

Click to expand...

Yes, I’m considering Sony full frame. I mostly shoot wide to normal and the specs make a compelling case:

A Sony A7C (509g) and Sony 16-35 f4 (353g)

Tamron 17-50/4 rumored to be announced next month

NZ Scott said:
vs

Panasonic G95 (536g) and 8-18 f2.8-f4 (315g)

Practically the same weight, while the Sony gathers 1-2 stops more light.

S

--
-------------------------------
My Flickr stream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottkmacleod/

James Stirling · Sep 18, 2023

NowHearThis said:
NZ Scott said:

I’ve been shooting m43 since 2010, starting with the excellent Olympus EP3, then the even more excellent Panasonic GM5.

Sick of waiting for a GM5 replacement, I bought the G85, which is a great camera but never gelled with me.

With no modern tiny m43 enthusiast camera replacement, I’m now seriously considering selling my 12 lenses and building a new system around one of the smaller full frame systems.

Is anyone else considering this?

Click to expand...

Not smaller, no. Only Sony makes "small cameras" but I'm not fond of their lens I would most likely want to use AND use on a daily basis. (I know Sony makes great lenses. But they are beyond my price range and hence 100% inconsequential, non-starter, and will never buy lenses). YMMV and more power to ya.

NowHearThis said:

Yes, I know some of the FF lenses are a bit bigger, but the system weight difference is no longer as great as it used to be because the weight of the bodies has become so much closer.

The f4 full-frame lenses aren’t much heavier than the f2.8 m43 lenses and offer an extra stop of light gathering, not to mention the extra dynamic range and resolution of the ff sensors.

Click to expand...

If you use Canon or Nikon (24-105/4 and 24-120/4 respectively) you'll love their F4's as your main lens. If you use Panasonic or Sony's 24-105/4 you will be sorely disappointed. Sony has a 20-70/4 that's good and is probably the only lens I'd use. The Tamron 28-75/2.8 G2, while very sharp and generally great, is not wide enough for me to consider. Skip the Canon 24-240 and Sony 24-240, period. Skip the Nikon 24-200 if you care about IQ at the outer edges of the frame.

I was hoping the Nikon ZF was going to be nice and small, but looks like that won't be the case, My EM1.3 is small enough - at least until a PEN-F 2 comes out, and yes I can wait. Based on things I need to buy, I won't be upgrading for 2 years even if a Pen-F was released tomorrow - gotta live within my budget.

NowHearThis said:

S

Click to expand...

The Nikon 24-200mm may not be as good as the other standard zooms but considering the focal range it is not too shabby. Though I think Scott is more into primes.

Examples from this DPreview gallery , I don't have the lens

Nikon Z 24-200mm F4-6.3 VR Sample Gallery: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

Full frame shown { downsized } to highlight area shown with 100% crops

Not perfect by any means but for a one lens solution for travel etc . I think it does a pretty decent job. In DX mode you can stretch it out to 300mm effective FF FOV

DX sized crop at 200mm , 300mm FF equiv FOV

--
Jim Stirling:
“It is one thing to show a man that he is in error, and another to put him in possession of truth.” Locke
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

NowHearThis · Sep 18, 2023

James Stirling said:
NowHearThis said:

NZ Scott said:

I’ve been shooting m43 since 2010, starting with the excellent Olympus EP3, then the even more excellent Panasonic GM5.

Sick of waiting for a GM5 replacement, I bought the G85, which is a great camera but never gelled with me.

With no modern tiny m43 enthusiast camera replacement, I’m now seriously considering selling my 12 lenses and building a new system around one of the smaller full frame systems.

Is anyone else considering this?

Click to expand...

Not smaller, no. Only Sony makes "small cameras" but I'm not fond of their lens I would most likely want to use AND use on a daily basis. (I know Sony makes great lenses. But they are beyond my price range and hence 100% inconsequential, non-starter, and will never buy lenses). YMMV and more power to ya.

James Stirling said:

Yes, I know some of the FF lenses are a bit bigger, but the system weight difference is no longer as great as it used to be because the weight of the bodies has become so much closer.

The f4 full-frame lenses aren’t much heavier than the f2.8 m43 lenses and offer an extra stop of light gathering, not to mention the extra dynamic range and resolution of the ff sensors.

Click to expand...

If you use Canon or Nikon (24-105/4 and 24-120/4 respectively) you'll love their F4's as your main lens. If you use Panasonic or Sony's 24-105/4 you will be sorely disappointed. Sony has a 20-70/4 that's good and is probably the only lens I'd use. The Tamron 28-75/2.8 G2, while very sharp and generally great, is not wide enough for me to consider. Skip the Canon 24-240 and Sony 24-240, period. Skip the Nikon 24-200 if you care about IQ at the outer edges of the frame.

I was hoping the Nikon ZF was going to be nice and small, but looks like that won't be the case, My EM1.3 is small enough - at least until a PEN-F 2 comes out, and yes I can wait. Based on things I need to buy, I won't be upgrading for 2 years even if a Pen-F was released tomorrow - gotta live within my budget.

James Stirling said:

S

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The Nikon 24-200mm may not be as good as the other standard zooms but considering the focal range it is not too shabby. Though I think Scott is more into primes.

Examples from this DPreview gallery , I don't have the lens

Nikon Z 24-200mm F4-6.3 VR Sample Gallery: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

Full frame shown { downsized } to highlight area shown with 100% crops

Not perfect by any means but for a one lens solution for travel etc . I think it does a pretty decent job. In DX mode you can stretch it out to 300mm effective FF FOV

...

Nikon generally has done a great job with their Z lenses. The Z24-200 is probably the best of the FF superzooms. It's weakest at the wide end at the edges. and the Z24-120/4 is SO good, and only $200 more that's it a no brainer - I'd sacrifice the 80mm for it's amazing IQ. The Z24-120/4 is nearly as good as the best F2.8s which cost over twice as much.

NowHearThis · Sep 18, 2023

valsan said:
NZ Scott said:

unhappymeal said:

Have you considered Sony? As much as I love my GM5 and consider it irreplaceable, something like the a6100 + 10-20 f/4 PZ and Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 and a prime or two would cover a lot of your m4/3 kit. You'd gain about 2/3-1 stop of dynamic range, DoF control and a huge upgrade in AF performance.

Click to expand...

Yes, I’m considering Sony full frame. I mostly shoot wide to normal and the specs make a compelling case:

A Sony A7C (509g) and Sony 16-35 f4 (353g)

Click to expand...

Tamron 17-50/4 rumored to be announced next month

Given the popularity of the Olympus 8-25/4, this could be popular for Sony. Hope they make it in other mounts or at least let Nikon re-label it as a Z17-50/4.

valsan said:
valsan said:

vs

Panasonic G95 (536g) and 8-18 f2.8-f4 (315g)

Practically the same weight, while the Sony gathers 1-2 stops more light.

S

Click to expand...

James Stirling · Sep 18, 2023

NowHearThis said:
James Stirling said:

NowHearThis said:

NZ Scott said:

I’ve been shooting m43 since 2010, starting with the excellent Olympus EP3, then the even more excellent Panasonic GM5.

Sick of waiting for a GM5 replacement, I bought the G85, which is a great camera but never gelled with me.

With no modern tiny m43 enthusiast camera replacement, I’m now seriously considering selling my 12 lenses and building a new system around one of the smaller full frame systems.

Is anyone else considering this?

Click to expand...

Not smaller, no. Only Sony makes "small cameras" but I'm not fond of their lens I would most likely want to use AND use on a daily basis. (I know Sony makes great lenses. But they are beyond my price range and hence 100% inconsequential, non-starter, and will never buy lenses). YMMV and more power to ya.

NowHearThis said:

Yes, I know some of the FF lenses are a bit bigger, but the system weight difference is no longer as great as it used to be because the weight of the bodies has become so much closer.

The f4 full-frame lenses aren’t much heavier than the f2.8 m43 lenses and offer an extra stop of light gathering, not to mention the extra dynamic range and resolution of the ff sensors.

Click to expand...

If you use Canon or Nikon (24-105/4 and 24-120/4 respectively) you'll love their F4's as your main lens. If you use Panasonic or Sony's 24-105/4 you will be sorely disappointed. Sony has a 20-70/4 that's good and is probably the only lens I'd use. The Tamron 28-75/2.8 G2, while very sharp and generally great, is not wide enough for me to consider. Skip the Canon 24-240 and Sony 24-240, period. Skip the Nikon 24-200 if you care about IQ at the outer edges of the frame.

I was hoping the Nikon ZF was going to be nice and small, but looks like that won't be the case, My EM1.3 is small enough - at least until a PEN-F 2 comes out, and yes I can wait. Based on things I need to buy, I won't be upgrading for 2 years even if a Pen-F was released tomorrow - gotta live within my budget.

NowHearThis said:

S

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The Nikon 24-200mm may not be as good as the other standard zooms but considering the focal range it is not too shabby. Though I think Scott is more into primes.

Examples from this DPreview gallery , I don't have the lens

Nikon Z 24-200mm F4-6.3 VR Sample Gallery: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

Full frame shown { downsized } to highlight area shown with 100% crops

Not perfect by any means but for a one lens solution for travel etc . I think it does a pretty decent job. In DX mode you can stretch it out to 300mm effective FF FOV

...

Click to expand...

Nikon generally has done a great job with their Z lenses. The Z24-200 is probably the best of the FF superzooms. It's weakest at the wide end at the edges. and the Z24-120/4 is SO good, and only $200 more that's it a no brainer - I'd sacrifice the 80mm for it's amazing IQ. The Z24-120/4 is nearly as good as the best F2.8s which cost over twice as much.

Yep, very happy with the 24-120mm it gets the most use of my Z gear

mmartel · Sep 18, 2023

Dang it, James, you've really done it to me now...

Excuse me while I price a Z6 and 24-200 over on mpb...

mmartel · Sep 18, 2023

mmartel said:
Dang it, James, you've really done it to me now...

Excuse me while I price a Z6 and 24-200 over on mpb...

Wow.

More affordable than I would have guessed: ~$1550 USD.

Tempting.

nzmacro · Sep 18, 2023

mmartel said:
mmartel said:

Dang it, James, you've really done it to me now...

Excuse me while I price a Z6 and 24-200 over on mpb...

Click to expand...

Wow.

More affordable than I would have guessed: ~$1550 USD.

Tempting.

Yes it starts to make things worthwhile to weigh it all up. Depends what you want though.

Danny.

Lupata · Sep 18, 2023

a bit of a no brainer sony here we come

Couple it with the Sigma 24mm f/3.5, 35mm f/2 and the 65mm f/2 shoot and enjoy

NZ Scott · Sep 18, 2023

valsan said:
NZ Scott said:

unhappymeal said:

Have you considered Sony? As much as I love my GM5 and consider it irreplaceable, something like the a6100 + 10-20 f/4 PZ and Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 and a prime or two would cover a lot of your m4/3 kit. You'd gain about 2/3-1 stop of dynamic range, DoF control and a huge upgrade in AF performance.

Click to expand...

Yes, I’m considering Sony full frame. I mostly shoot wide to normal and the specs make a compelling case:

A Sony A7C (509g) and Sony 16-35 f4 (353g)

Click to expand...

Tamron 17-50/4 rumored to be announced next month

This would be ideal for me, depending on the weight

valsan said:
valsan said:

vs

Panasonic G95 (536g) and 8-18 f2.8-f4 (315g)

Practically the same weight, while the Sony gathers 1-2 stops more light.

S

Click to expand...

NZ Scott · Sep 18, 2023

robgendreau said:
NZ Scott said:

I’ve been shooting m43 since 2010, starting with the excellent Olympus EP3, then the even more excellent Panasonic GM5.

Sick of waiting for a GM5 replacement, I bought the G85, which is a great camera but never gelled with me.

With no modern tiny m43 enthusiast camera replacement, I’m now seriously considering selling my 12 lenses and building a new system around one of the smaller full frame systems.

Is anyone else considering this?

Yes, I know some of the FF lenses are a bit bigger, but the system weight difference is no longer as great as it used to be because the weight of the bodies has become so much closer.

The f4 full-frame lenses aren’t much heavier than the f2.8 m43 lenses and offer an extra stop of light gathering, not to mention the extra dynamic range and resolution of the ff sensors.

S

Click to expand...

Maybe I missed it but why, if you're waiting for a small GM like camera, would you change course and go for a bigger FF system?

The point is that, if I’m going to be forced to carry a big camera, it might as well be full frame.

robgendreau said:
I saw all the usual comments arguing about FF vs M43 size, but the GMs are small even by M43 standards, and often used with small primes.

I guess you've considered the RX series, but what about the GR III series?

I already own an RX100 VII.

robgendreau said:
Also, I'd keep some of the M43 stuff, like the long lenses, and get a decent inexpensive FF camera and maybe use it with wides.

I no longer have a fully functional m43 camera, so there’s no point in keeping any lenses. I might as well sell them and put the funds towards my new system.

S

robgendreau said:
But hard to tell what the goal is here.

--
-------------------------------
My Flickr stream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottkmacleod/

mmartel · Sep 18, 2023

nzmacro said:
mmartel said:

mmartel said:

Dang it, James, you've really done it to me now...

Excuse me while I price a Z6 and 24-200 over on mpb...

Click to expand...

Wow.

More affordable than I would have guessed: ~$1550 USD.

Tempting.

Click to expand...

Yes it starts to make things worthwhile to weigh it all up. Depends what you want though.

Danny.

Someone wiser than I once said: "I can always justify a need, but I can never justify a want."

;-)

Leaving m43 for full frame

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