Why are 3rd party lens companies so slow to make Z mount?

Nikon rolled out Z mount with the release of the Z6 and Z7 back in late 2018. It's been almost 5 years, and all we have is a few lenses. What is taking them so long? I feel like there are some gaps in Nikon's lens offerings that a 3rd party could easily take advantage of. Personally I have been waiting for Sigma to make a 14 mm f1.4 Art lens in Z mount, but for some weird reason they decided to make a couple dx lenses instead.

Because the camera makers are possessive and they want to sell you their own lenses. Which, BTW, I do think is short sighted. Canon has, in fact, warned third parties about making lenses that may infringe Canon''s patents. An exception to that rule is Sony, who opened up their lens mount to third parties when they were starting to build their mirrorless systems as a way of building up a full line of lenses quickly. That turned out to be a very smart move.

Apparently Sigma and Tamron have agreements with Nikon to make specific lenses that Nikon allows them to make. Other third parties would have to reverse engineer Nikons's mount and communication protocols and there's never any guaranty that those lenses would continue to work if Nikon tweaked their system.

It gets even more complicated in the modern mirrorless era because Nikon bodies do automatic corrections for lens flaws like chromatic aberration and vignetting. That's one of the reasons that when Nikon comes out with a new lens, you usually have to update the camera's firmware.

But believe me, you're not the only one who'd like to see more third-part offerings.

The only gap in millimmeters I can see here is between 600mm and 800mm.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-p.../index.page#!/tag:lR8:Z Mount Digital Cameras

But from 12mm to 600mm there's no gap at all in terms of focal length.

You can probably switch systems if you want that one lens, switch to whatever mount supports it. Or adapt the lens to Z.

--
irc.libera.chat #photogeeks

Here's Sigma's camera line.

https://www.sigmaphoto.com/cameras/mirrorless

The Sigma 14mm f/1.4 Art L-mount will work on the Sigma fp body.

I'm not certain, but I think that lens only works on L mount and no other mount.

Sigma doesn't even make the 14mm f/1.4 Art for their very own SA mount, which means you can't even use it on Sigma's own sd Quattro camera. So why isn't Sigma making their own Sigma lenses for their own Sigma SA mount, even?

Born2Code said:

Because the camera makers are possessive and they want to sell you their own lenses. Which, BTW, I do think is short sighted. Canon has, in fact, warned third parties about making lenses that may infringe Canon''s patents. An exception to that rule is Sony, who opened up their lens mount to third parties when they were starting to build their mirrorless systems as a way of building up a full line of lenses quickly. That turned out to be a very smart move.

Apparently Sigma and Tamron have agreements with Nikon to make specific lenses that Nikon allows them to make. Other third parties would have to reverse engineer Nikons's mount and communication protocols and there's never any guaranty that those lenses would continue to work if Nikon tweaked their system.

It gets even more complicated in the modern mirrorless era because Nikon bodies do automatic corrections for lens flaws like chromatic aberration and vignetting. That's one of the reasons that when Nikon comes out with a new lens, you usually have to update the camera's firmware.

But believe me, you're not the only one who'd like to see more third-part offerings.

Click to expand...

The only part left out here is demand and ROI. I think for the first 2-3 years of the Z6-Z7, Nikon simply didn't sell enough bodies to get 3rd party companies all that interested. Much better to make yet another Sony mount lens that serves a much larger user base.

The last year has been more promising.

Born2Code said:

Because the camera makers are possessive and they want to sell you their own lenses. Which, BTW, I do think is short sighted. Canon has, in fact, warned third parties about making lenses that may infringe Canon''s patents. An exception to that rule is Sony, who opened up their lens mount to third parties when they were starting to build their mirrorless systems as a way of building up a full line of lenses quickly. That turned out to be a very smart move.

Apparently Sigma and Tamron have agreements with Nikon to make specific lenses that Nikon allows them to make. Other third parties would have to reverse engineer Nikons's mount and communication protocols and there's never any guaranty that those lenses would continue to work if Nikon tweaked their system.

It gets even more complicated in the modern mirrorless era because Nikon bodies do automatic corrections for lens flaws like chromatic aberration and vignetting. That's one of the reasons that when Nikon comes out with a new lens, you usually have to update the camera's firmware.

But believe me, you're not the only one who'd like to see more third-part offerings.

Click to expand...

Even as it turned out to be a smart move for Sony, Nikon/Canon continue to ignore it.

capanikon said:

Here's Sigma's camera line.

https://www.sigmaphoto.com/cameras/mirrorless

The Sigma 14mm f/1.4 Art L-mount will work on the Sigma fp body.

I'm not certain, but I think that lens only works on L mount and no other mount.

Click to expand...

Actually it's available for Sony E mount as well:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/60543...its-fastest-ever-wide-angle-the-14mm-f1-4-art

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/a023_14_14/

The lens has only been available for a few months, so perhaps it might be made for other systems at some point?

capanikon said:

Sigma doesn't even make the 14mm f/1.4 Art for their very own SA mount, which means you can't even use it on Sigma's own sd Quattro camera. So why isn't Sigma making their own Sigma lenses for their own Sigma SA mount, even?

Click to expand...

This lens is designed for mirrorless cameras such as the Sigma fp and Sony A7 series. Unless the rear optics are deeply recessed inside the mount, such a lens can't easily be made to work on SLR cameras. The SD Quattro models, though mirrorless, have the same lens mount and FFD as the company's DSLRs.

Nikon's market share is 11.7%, compared to 26.1% and 46.5%.

The same reason why they were also slow to the E mount.

The E mount was introduced in 2010, and the first a7 full frame camera came in 2013, but they only ever got serious after the a9 was introduced in 2017. In the 4 years leading up the a9, Tamron and Sigma had like one or two lenses like the 70-300 and some other primes? The a9 was the signal that mirrorless was finally ready and then the a7iii came along in 2018 and the third parties went all in because it was the introduction of the wider market body.

It's almost the same with the Z mount. The Z9 was the signal that the Z mount was finally ready and we are starting to see third party lens makers come in when the wider market bodies come in, and just like with the E mount, they are at the early stages of slowly introducing lenses.

It is down to a few things: whether it makes business sense or not and if the potential market is worth pursuing. The Z mount market share isn't quite there yet, we haven't got our Z6iii and the crop bodies aren't updated yet. The third party makers aren't going to jump all in now. And the biggest part of the market share right now is the E mount, that's where the potential sales is the largest. The third parties can make more more by dedicating their lenses in E mount than to try and court a smaller universe of Z mount buyers. So that is an extra factor that is working against the Z mount, even if the Z mount market share is to improve steadily.

john isaacs said:

Born2Code said:

Because the camera makers are possessive and they want to sell you their own lenses. Which, BTW, I do think is short sighted. Canon has, in fact, warned third parties about making lenses that may infringe Canon''s patents. An exception to that rule is Sony, who opened up their lens mount to third parties when they were starting to build their mirrorless systems as a way of building up a full line of lenses quickly. That turned out to be a very smart move.

Apparently Sigma and Tamron have agreements with Nikon to make specific lenses that Nikon allows them to make. Other third parties would have to reverse engineer Nikons's mount and communication protocols and there's never any guaranty that those lenses would continue to work if Nikon tweaked their system.

It gets even more complicated in the modern mirrorless era because Nikon bodies do automatic corrections for lens flaws like chromatic aberration and vignetting. That's one of the reasons that when Nikon comes out with a new lens, you usually have to update the camera's firmware.

But believe me, you're not the only one who'd like to see more third-part offerings.

Click to expand...

Even as it turned out to be a smart move for Sony, Nikon/Canon continue to ignore it.

Click to expand...

Can't argue with that.

A quick glance at primes in the 13, 14 and 15mm range on B&H shows a variety of third-party options:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...m|14mm|15mm,fct_lens-mount_3442:nikon-z-mount

I'd guess the reason there's no Sigma on that list is a question you'd have to ask Sigma, not Nikon.

There's also a Z mount Sigma 16mm f/1.4 for sale there:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1753807-REG/sigma_16mm_1_4_dc_dn.html

If ur really hell-bent for third party stuff.

NIkon's got a Z NIkkor 20mm f/1.8: https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-lenses/nikkor-z-20mm-f%2f1.8-s.html

And a Z Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8 constant aperture: https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-lenses/nikkor-z-14-24mm-f%2f2.8-s.html

And a Z Nikkor 14-30mm f/4: https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-lenses/nikkor-z-14-30mm-f%2f4-s.html

So if you're looking for 14mm on Nikon Z either as a Nikkor lens or some third party stuff, you can buy such a lens today.

capanikon said:

The only gap in millimmeters I can see here is between 600mm and 800mm.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-p.../index.page#!/tag:lR8:Z Mount Digital Cameras

But from 12mm to 600mm there's no gap at all in terms of focal length.

You can probably switch systems if you want that one lens, switch to whatever mount supports it. Or adapt the lens to Z.

Click to expand...

That's not what people mean when they talk about gaps in the lens line-up.

Sure, you could buy all 20+ Nikon full-frame lenses, carry them around with you on your hiking trip, and you'll have (almost) every focal length you might want.

But people might want to go hiking, or walking in the city or pretty much any kind of shooting with fewer lenses, or to not need to switch lenses too often.

So the 35mm-150mm from Tamron fills such a need. It's brighter than Nikon's 24-120, it has better reach, at the expense of the wide angle, and it's more convenient than carrying the equally bright 24-70 + 70-210.

And while Nikon offers a 50mm macro and a 105mm macro, they don't offer a longer macro (still not available from 3rd parties), or a tilt-shift macro (available from TTArtisan)

And Nikon has short lenses, but no pancake. And no fish-eye.

And DX users don't have a really long do-everything lens like the Tamron 18-400 that they've been making for DX mounts for over a decade. Maybe you can adapt it - I don't know. That's the FX equivalent of 24-600. Now that's a true all-in-one (except macro, and really wide angle). I wonder how big a 24-600 FX lens would be.

So there's a lot of things missing. It's not surprising - Nikon first addressed the most useful lenses, the ones needed by a lot of pros and hobbyists.

Born2Code said:

john isaacs said:

Born2Code said:

Because the camera makers are possessive and they want to sell you their own lenses. Which, BTW, I do think is short sighted. Canon has, in fact, warned third parties about making lenses that may infringe Canon''s patents. An exception to that rule is Sony, who opened up their lens mount to third parties when they were starting to build their mirrorless systems as a way of building up a full line of lenses quickly. That turned out to be a very smart move.

Apparently Sigma and Tamron have agreements with Nikon to make specific lenses that Nikon allows them to make. Other third parties would have to reverse engineer Nikons's mount and communication protocols and there's never any guaranty that those lenses would continue to work if Nikon tweaked their system.

It gets even more complicated in the modern mirrorless era because Nikon bodies do automatic corrections for lens flaws like chromatic aberration and vignetting. That's one of the reasons that when Nikon comes out with a new lens, you usually have to update the camera's firmware.

But believe me, you're not the only one who'd like to see more third-part offerings.

Click to expand...

Even as it turned out to be a smart move for Sony, Nikon/Canon continue to ignore it.

Click to expand...

Can't argue with that.

Click to expand...

You actually can. Well half of it. See my post.

TLDR; The third party lens makers didn't jump in head first in the very beginning when the E mount was starting either. The lens mount being open or not didn't push the third party lens makers to get on it immediately. They continued to release DSLR F and EF mount lenses while the E mount was taking it's time to reach maturity. The third party lens makers started slowly with a release here and there and waited for the E mount to be ready before they decided to step in.

And now the Z mount is going through that same phase. The third party lens makers are waiting for the right time to move, and right now with the Z8 and Z9, they are slowly releasing their lenses in the Z mount.

Now I would say the third party lens makers will jump all in when we get our wider market bodies, but that's where the E mount's superior market share makes the decision not as straightforward. They will make more money with E mount than the other mounts. So the Z mount's market share has to reach a good enough point for the third party lens makers to seriously consider releasing things in Z mount.

So there's a chicken and egg situation here. Something has to move first. And what's plausibly happened was Nikon knows this, and instead of waiting to wait for the Z mount market share to grow, they probably decided to jumpstart the process by going to Tamron and buying and rebadging some of Tamron's lenses. For Nikon, they have more lenses options for more people. For Tamron, it makes business sense. Instead of selling to a still small universe of potential buyers and praying we buy them when they could have sold those lenses to the bigger E mount universe, they have the chance to make definite money from Nikon.

Canon, they are ahead, they can choose to not play ball. The lack of third party lenses isn't exactly putting a dent in Canon's market share either. So the impact is minute. Nikon is willing to play ball and get every help they can get because they know they are playing catching up. Remember ultimately the lenses belong to the third party lens makers. Those companies choose what mount to release them in and when to release them.

Mackiesback said:

Born2Code said:

Because the camera makers are possessive and they want to sell you their own lenses. Which, BTW, I do think is short sighted. Canon has, in fact, warned third parties about making lenses that may infringe Canon''s patents. An exception to that rule is Sony, who opened up their lens mount to third parties when they were starting to build their mirrorless systems as a way of building up a full line of lenses quickly. That turned out to be a very smart move.

Apparently Sigma and Tamron have agreements with Nikon to make specific lenses that Nikon allows them to make. Other third parties would have to reverse engineer Nikons's mount and communication protocols and there's never any guaranty that those lenses would continue to work if Nikon tweaked their system.

It gets even more complicated in the modern mirrorless era because Nikon bodies do automatic corrections for lens flaws like chromatic aberration and vignetting. That's one of the reasons that when Nikon comes out with a new lens, you usually have to update the camera's firmware.

But believe me, you're not the only one who'd like to see more third-part offerings.

Click to expand...

The only part left out here is demand and ROI. I think for the first 2-3 years of the Z6-Z7, Nikon simply didn't sell enough bodies to get 3rd party companies all that interested. Much better to make yet another Sony mount lens that serves a much larger user base.

The last year has been more promising.

Click to expand...

Nikon, as a system, is way ahead of the game compared to were Sony was 5 years in. It took until Sony had their 3rd generation camera before 3rd party companies came out with anything decent. Nikon, as an OEM brand, also offers a lot more lenses than anyone else does/did 5 years into their respective systems. Tamron is certainly designing interesting lenses for Sony. But consider the 35-150 didn't arrive at Sony's 5 year mark, but it is for Nikon. I think we'll see an acceleration of releases once the Z6III arrives.

synp71 said:

capanikon said:

The only gap in millimmeters I can see here is between 600mm and 800mm.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-p.../index.page#!/tag:lR8:Z Mount Digital Cameras

But from 12mm to 600mm there's no gap at all in terms of focal length.

You can probably switch systems if you want that one lens, switch to whatever mount supports it. Or adapt the lens to Z.

Click to expand...

And while Nikon offers a 50mm macro and a 105mm macro, they don't offer a longer macro (still not available from 3rd parties), or a tilt-shift macro (available from TTArtisan)

Click to expand...

There is a new Zhongyi Optics (ZY Optics) Mitakon APO 200mm f/4 macro 1X full-frame lens for Nikon F + Z mount.

https://nikonrumors.com/2023/09/03/weekly-nikon-news-flash-744.aspx/

___

On the topic as such, I think you have to separate and formulate very precisely here.
That there is a lack of third-party lens suppliers in the Z-mount, or a lack at the frequency of the output, is certainly not true.
That may be true if you are exclusively fixated on Sigma, Tamron and Co. as third-party suppliers, or only consider lenses with AF, but as a general statement it is simply wrong.

There are plenty of lenses for the Z-mount from third-party suppliers and new lenses are constantly being released.

However, with the exception of Viltrox and a few Sigma/Tamron offerings for the Z-mount, these are mostly manual focus lenses.

Personally, I am not at all interested in Sigma or Tamron, but much more in high quality manual focus lenses from Cosina/ Voigtlander, or Laowa, as an additional complement to my Nikon Z-optics.
So from my point of view, the thread title couldn't be more wrong, because there are much more interesting optics for the Z-mount from third party suppliers than I have financial resources for.

Apart from that, you can adapt pretty much any lens for the Z-mount.
So if you want, you can use not only Nikkor Z-mount lenses, but also dozens of third-party lenses for Z-mount, you can also adapt every Sony E-mount lens, if you want and with very good results also in terms of AF behavior.
So if your horizon starts with autofocus only and ends with Sigma/Tamron in the third-party sector, and you hardly notice anything else on the market, you can easily adapt Sigma/Tamron optics made for E-mount.

As a Z-mount owner, you basically have access to the largest range of lenses available, because almost everything can be adapted, which is not possible the other way around.

However, if you want to use the complete, or a lot of the Sigma/Tamron lineup natively, Sony is certainly the better choice.
Even if lenses like the 35-150 for the Z-mount are now released, Nikon will continue to be more restrictive here.

I have been involved in photography, off and on, for a good 45 years and in all that time I have never used a mount that allows me such a variety of different optics.

This wasn't even the case in the days of M42.

Accordingly, with my Z camera I can not only use what is now a very extensive native Z lens range from Nikon, but also adapt pretty much anything that comes to mind.

All my old lenses from more than 6 decades of lens history, several of which have not been usable without loss for decades (Canon FD), my remaining Mamiya 645 medium format lenses, even all of my father's heirlooms from the M42 era.

Even one of my two Rollei V/S Heidosmat MC 90mm f/2.4 lenses (Rollei Twin slide projector lenses) can be used on my Z camera via an M52 - M42 helicoid adapter.

I could use the entire F lens program as a gap filler, any E-mount lens I want to add.

If there's one problem that doesn't exist in the Z-mount, it's the variety of optics that you can use, which is unique.

m_black said:

Mackiesback said:

Born2Code said:

Because the camera makers are possessive and they want to sell you their own lenses. Which, BTW, I do think is short sighted. Canon has, in fact, warned third parties about making lenses that may infringe Canon''s patents. An exception to that rule is Sony, who opened up their lens mount to third parties when they were starting to build their mirrorless systems as a way of building up a full line of lenses quickly. That turned out to be a very smart move.

Apparently Sigma and Tamron have agreements with Nikon to make specific lenses that Nikon allows them to make. Other third parties would have to reverse engineer Nikons's mount and communication protocols and there's never any guaranty that those lenses would continue to work if Nikon tweaked their system.

It gets even more complicated in the modern mirrorless era because Nikon bodies do automatic corrections for lens flaws like chromatic aberration and vignetting. That's one of the reasons that when Nikon comes out with a new lens, you usually have to update the camera's firmware.

But believe me, you're not the only one who'd like to see more third-part offerings.

Click to expand...

The only part left out here is demand and ROI. I think for the first 2-3 years of the Z6-Z7, Nikon simply didn't sell enough bodies to get 3rd party companies all that interested. Much better to make yet another Sony mount lens that serves a much larger user base.

The last year has been more promising.

Click to expand...

Nikon, as a system, is way ahead of the game compared to were Sony was 5 years in. It took until Sony had their 3rd generation camera before 3rd party companies came out with anything decent. Nikon, as an OEM brand, also offers a lot more lenses than anyone else does/did 5 years into their respective systems. Tamron is certainly designing interesting lenses for Sony. But consider the 35-150 didn't arrive at Sony's 5 year mark, but it is for Nikon. I think we'll see an acceleration of releases once the Z6III arrives.

Click to expand...

If a race car or a horse started out in last place and finished second, did they do better than the car or horse that started in first and finished first? I do recognize and give Nikon credit for where they are moving and where they likely end up. But I can’t give them credit for how slow they were initially.

archerscreek said:

If a race car or a horse started out in last place and finished second, did they do better than the car or horse that started in first and finished first?

Click to expand...

An auto or horse race has a finishing line. What's the finishing line for camera products? ;~) #badanology

archerscreek said:

I do recognize and give Nikon credit for where they are moving and where they likely end up. But I can’t give them credit for how slow they were initially.

Click to expand...

As I've documented several times, they're slightly faster than Sony was when Sony made their DSLR abandonment to take up mirrorless. Yes, we should give them credit for that.

Droster said:

And now the Z mount is going through that same phase. The third party lens makers are waiting for the right time to move, and right now with the Z8 and Z9, they are slowly releasing their lenses in the Z mount.

Click to expand...

You're all speaking too narrowly here. Most of this "third party too slow" nonsense is really "where are my Sigma and Tamron lenses?"

As of today, 21 autofocus lenses not made by Nikon are available in the Z mount that you can walk into a store and buy (well, maybe not your store ;~). That number is increasing fairly rapidly now.

Sigma has said in the past year that they are a bit production constrained on what they're producing. Tamron has Sony as a significant shareholder. Both have reasons for not being aggressive at the moment, and it has nothing to do with how many cameras Nikon has produced.

Thom Hogan said:

Droster said:

And now the Z mount is going through that same phase. The third party lens makers are waiting for the right time to move, and right now with the Z8 and Z9, they are slowly releasing their lenses in the Z mount.

Click to expand...

You're all speaking too narrowly here. Most of this "third party too slow" nonsense is really "where are my Sigma and Tamron lenses?"

As of today, 21 autofocus lenses not made by Nikon are available in the Z mount that you can walk into a store and buy (well, maybe not your store ;~). That number is increasing fairly rapidly now.

Sigma has said in the past year that they are a bit production constrained on what they're producing. Tamron has Sony as a significant shareholder. Both have reasons for not being aggressive at the moment, and it has nothing to do with how many cameras Nikon has produced.

Click to expand...

Correct, we are generally speaking of Tamron and Sigma. They are the big players in that space who make lenses that actually can compete with Nikon quality at a good price. There are plenty of cheap manual focus primes, but not really what we are talking about. None of us are anxiously waiting for some new $175 50 mm manual focus prime from TTArtisan/Meike/whatever Chinese brand, when you can buy a native Nikon AF prime for $500. Sigma has production constraints, but they decide to make 3 Z mount lenses in DX format instead of FX? Five years just seems like a long time to not make a product for the new primary mount of one of the big 3 camera manufacturers. Perhaps it is inline with what has happened within the industry regarding other brands and mounts. I haven't paid much attention to other brands having moved to Z mount straight from Nikon F mount. Maybe I'm just being impatient, but we are all looking forward to more amazing Z mount glass. I'm looking forward to retiring my FTZ.

What are the other brands making autofocus lenses for FX Z mount? I could only find 9 lenses total, 2 of which are the new Tamron lenses, and are the only none primes I found. It is worth noting that none of the new Tamron lenses or Sigma DX lenses have image stabilization, probably because their existing systems doesn't work well with the Z body IBIS? So perhaps Nikon is holding back tech and enforcing patents and making it extra difficult for 3rd party lenses to enter that market. Perhaps they are waiting to get lens VR/VC compatible before dedicating resources to Z mount lenses?

gregt943 said:

What are the other brands making autofocus lenses for FX Z mount? I could only find 9 lenses total, 2 of which are the new Tamron lenses, and are the only none primes I found.

Click to expand...

FX AF primes for Z mount are available from Meike (1) , Viltrox (5), TTArtisan (1), and Yongnuo (3). These numbers are from what is available through B&H.

There may be others. I think there are some others that may not be available in USA but I lost track.

Yes, no zooms, which I think may be beyond the capability of these chinese makers to produce (engineering, cost, appropriate pricing) in compared to the more simple primes.

--
If cameras and lenses can have autofocus then why can't I?