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New: Jan Wegener on Nikon Z8, Z9, vs. Canon R5

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HRS

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I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
 
We're usually on the same page, and without viewing this video the following points are obvious:
  • Either you spend more on the body (Z8) that accepts third party lenses or you spend more on (quirky for a Nikon user) RF lenses. (Z8)

  • The smaller size, weight (.4 lb lighter,) and fully articulating screen on the R5 are significant. (R5)

  • The R5 is now rather dated and this isn't really a fair comparison. I can't stand MARK. Just label them with the year already. R5'20, Z8'23, DONE! (Z8)

  • What camera fits into your digital work flow better? (R5 if you use Lightroom)

  • What camera is more likely to improve with firmware updates? (Z8 landslide)

  • The Canon has a better EVF and AF tracking implementation, but I had no trouble with the Z8's even with adapted e-mount glass. SORRY, the R5 Canon has instant eye-tracking that can be programmed to the *. This is invaluable!
  • Canon/Sony let you remap the dial-pad to four buttons with just about any setting you want. (R5)
One of these has a much more professional vibe to it, and that goes beyond the size.

https://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=canon_eosr5&products=nikon_z8

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Last edited:
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Why did Nikon make the Z8 so big and with that battery too! The evf is hardly anything to write home about and why is it Nikon cannot get the af right on mirrorless, its very weird.
 
And-roid said:
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Why did Nikon make the Z8 so big and with that battery too! The evf is hardly anything to write home about and why is it Nikon cannot get the af right on mirrorless, it’s very weird.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. The AF works perfectly on my Z8.
 
And-roid said:
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Why did Nikon make the Z8 so big and with that battery too! The evf is hardly anything to write home about and why is it Nikon cannot get the af right on mirrorless, its very weird.
Click to expand...
Because people wanted a bigger, sturdier pro body? The EVF is blackout free and great, and the AF is superior to almost all other camera bodies (not all, but most, calm down critics).

There is a bunch of things you could complain about with the Z8 but you managed to pick the silliest ones?
 
I love my Z8 and Z9 for sure!

But comparing these with my sony a1 , I can assure you that the focus acquisition in fast and far wildlife subjects is much better with the sony cameras.This is clearly seen already for BIF.
 
And-roid said:
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Why did Nikon make the Z8 so big and with that battery too! The evf is hardly anything to write home about and why is it Nikon cannot get the af right on mirrorless, its very weird.
Click to expand...
The AF on my Z 8 is very good. I'm not complaining, and it is way better at fast moving stuff than my Z 7 is (or was when I part with it soon). No idea why some people think the AF is garbage. The AF can track a low flying jet a whole lot better than all the haters can pan the jet.

Battery is oddly the same size as the Z 7, so that is a plus to me. if I wanted bigger, I'd get the Z9 and pack that thing around. The Z 8 is heavier and bigger than the Z 7, but not a huge deal. If it has ot be bigger to help dissipate, or do, better video for longer than I get it, but I'm not a video shooter, so I could do without.
 
skyrunr said:
  • The R5 is now rather dated and this isn't really a fair comparison. I can't stand MARK. Just label them with the year already. R5'20, Z8'23, DONE! (Z8)
Click to expand...
The R5 is about a year and half older than the Z9, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it an out-of-date camera. However, the R5 is considerably cheaper than the Z9 so that it is an unfair comparison.

The R3 is a low-pixel, dedicated sports-oriented camera. I think we need to wait for the release of the R1 to have a better comparison, but who knows when the R1 will be out and how high Canon may price it.

Incidentally, Canon introduced the R5 and R6 simultaneously in mid 2020, in the early days of the pandemic. They already updated the R6 to a R6ii about a year ago, but there is no R5 update yet.
 
I will say I have the same issues with focusing on Birds in flight over water as Jan. There are other use cases where the Nikon AF in the z9 simply frustrates me as it just seems to hunt all over the place for no apparent reason.

I've been waiting for that silver bullet Firmware fix, but it still hasn't fixed that problem and I'm pretty sure its a design issue with the way the focus has been implemented.
 
I saw his video last night and found it informational. I have no experience with Canons, and don't really do BIF, so I have no reference to evaluate his bias.

It would be nice if there were more people giving unbiased comparisons about the performance of these cameras for things other than just shooting little birds a long ways away.
 
kbrkr said:
There are other use cases where the Nikon AF in the z9 simply frustrates me as it just seems to hunt all over the place for no apparent reason.
Click to expand...
Care to expand on that? Always interested to hear performance discussion beyond just birding.
 
Brian P Smith said:
And-roid said:
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Why did Nikon make the Z8 so big and with that battery too! The evf is hardly anything to write home about and why is it Nikon cannot get the af right on mirrorless, its very weird.
Click to expand...
Because people wanted a bigger, sturdier pro body?
Click to expand...
Wasn't that what they said to justify the Z9, at least that came with a decent battery pack.
Brian P Smith said:
The EVF is blackout free and great, and the AF is superior to almost all other camera bodies (not all, but most, calm down critics).
Click to expand...
It doesn't really seem to be that way by impartial reviewers
Brian P Smith said:
There is a bunch of things you could complain about with the Z8 but you managed to pick the silliest ones?
Click to expand...
What, the low res evf, the poor battery life and sheer physical size of it are silly, hmmmmmmm, not to mention the continuous complaints regarding the af.
 
Orsonneke said:
I love my Z8 and Z9 for sure!

But comparing these with my sony a1 , I can assure you that the focus acquisition in fast and far wildlife subjects is much better with the sony cameras.This is clearly seen already for BIF.
Click to expand...
This what all impartial reviewers are saying, Nikon is still lagging.
 
RWN Photo said:
And-roid said:
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Why did Nikon make the Z8 so big and with that battery too! The evf is hardly anything to write home about and why is it Nikon cannot get the af right on mirrorless, its very weird.
Click to expand...
The AF on my Z 8 is very good.
Click to expand...
Compared to? Z7?
RWN Photo said:
I'm not complaining, and it is way better at fast moving stuff than my Z 7 is (or was when I part with it soon). No idea why some people think the AF is garbage. The AF can track a low flying jet a whole lot better than all the haters can pan the jet.

Battery is oddly the same size as the Z 7, so that is a plus to me. if I wanted bigger, I'd get the Z9 and pack that thing around. The Z 8 is heavier and bigger than the Z 7, but not a huge deal. If it has ot be bigger to help dissipate, or do, better video for longer than I get it, but I'm not a video shooter, so I could do without.
Click to expand...
 
kbrkr said:
I will say I have the same issues with focusing on Birds in flight over water as Jan. There are other use cases where the Nikon AF in the z9 simply frustrates me as it just seems to hunt all over the place for no apparent reason.

I've been waiting for that silver bullet Firmware fix, but it still hasn't fixed that problem and I'm pretty sure its a design issue with the way the focus has been implemented.
Click to expand...
That makes me very sad to hear that :(
 
Suntan said:
kbrkr said:
There are other use cases where the Nikon AF in the z9 simply frustrates me as it just seems to hunt all over the place for no apparent reason.
Click to expand...
Care to expand on that? Always interested to hear performance discussion beyond just birding.
Click to expand...
I shoot cosplayers and sometimes, the Z9 AF intermittently goes batsh*t crazy (false positives on random things, ADHD with flip flopping between detected subjects). But, usually, it goes back to normal after de/refocus. Or, I just swap to 3D tracking and shoot with it, vs Auto Area (eye detect).

This being said, I have a WAY higher keeper rate than with my older Z7 and I won't be moving back to D850 unless it's a specialized case.
 
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting, that was informative
 
And-roid said:
Brian P Smith said:
And-roid said:
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Why did Nikon make the Z8 so big and with that battery too! The evf is hardly anything to write home about and why is it Nikon cannot get the af right on mirrorless, its very weird.
Click to expand...
Because people wanted a bigger, sturdier pro body?
Click to expand...
Wasn't that what they said to justify the Z9, at least that came with a decent battery pack.
alphaZ said:
The EVF is blackout free and great, and the AF is superior to almost all other camera bodies (not all, but most, calm down critics).
Click to expand...
It doesn't really seem to be that way by impartial reviewers
alphaZ said:
There is a bunch of things you could complain about with the Z8 but you managed to pick the silliest ones?
Click to expand...
What, the low res evf, the poor battery life and sheer physical size of it are silly, hmmmmmmm, not to mention the continuous complaints regarding the af.
Click to expand...
The EVF is black out free with these caveats.
  • Shutter speed must be above 1/250s because of the sensor readout speed. Below 1/250s you get a slideshow effect, but it's vastly better than what you see on a Z6/Z7. It's a fast slideshow. The Sony A1 does this as well. So it's not unique to the Z8/Z9.
  • When high frequency flicker reduction is enabled, there is a blackout on the first frame of a sequence. The rest of the sequence is black out free.
On the whole you do get a blackout free experience for most situations.

The EVF is lower res, but I do not find it an issue in use. The brightness is as important IMO and Z8/Z9 is noticeably brighter than their competitors. If I have to choose between higher res EVF some of the times or a brighter viewfinder, I'd choose brightness.

The size IMO is perfect. It could shed a little weight though. However, I'm not sure they could make it lighter without making the cooling worse than it already is for the Expees 7. It might be possible with an Expspeed 8 prosessor that's more efficient and puts out less heat.

AF can use some refinement, but it's useable in it's current state. It just requires some extra work on the user in the edge cases. So I agree it takes more work to achieve the same results in certain situations, but the results can still be achieved.
 
skyrunr said:
We're usually on the same page, and without viewing this video the following points are obvious:
  • The Canon has a better EVF and AF tracking implementation, but I had no trouble with the Z8's even with adapted e-mount glass. SORRY, the R5 Canon has instant eye-tracking that can be programmed to the *. This is invaluable!
Click to expand...
You hit on a lot of Jan’s observations. He did give Nikon the nod for EVF performance because of zero blackout between shots during high frame-rate shooting.

--
Cognitive Dissonance tell: If all you can offer is an ad hominem attack, you've lost the argument.
 
And-roid said:
HRS said:

I post this not to renew debate on current Nikons vs. Canons (or Sonys), but for those who visit this forum because they haven't yet decided on a camera system or are thinking of switching.

I find Jan Wegener's videos entirely balanced, and he "shows his work," even though he benefits from clicks like almost everyone on YouTube.

Bottom line: Nikon wins going away in certain categories, as does Canon.

Go to the last couple of minutes for his summary if that's all you're interested in.
Click to expand...
Why did Nikon make the Z8 so big and with that battery too! The evf is hardly anything to write home about and why is it Nikon cannot get the af right on mirrorless, its very weird.
Click to expand...
Uh... The Z8 isn't actually that big. I'd also argue they got the evf more correct than anyone else (constant 120fps with no blackout or resolution changes).

The af is also perfectly fine, comparable to the a1/r3/etc.

Is this another "everyone bash nikon with petty and probably wrong complaints" topic?
 
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