We want updated flashes from Nikon!

Who is this “we,” NikonMan?
Agree. At best some here do and some here don't. Often a vocal minority gets heard the most.
When did "we" come to mean everyone? If it's an honest question asking to please define the set of people that want an updated flash from Nikon then fine. But those people are still "we".
Yes, that is the point of my agreement with the earlier poster to who I was replying. I don't know who the original thread poster means by "we".

When I see new threads started with "We demand", "we want", or something similar, I find myself questioning who is being referred to? I also find myself a bit troubled by the possibility that the OP is presuming to speak for the forum collective as a whole. I don't know that's the case, but that's how such posts, including this one, come across to me. Hence my reply to the PLShutterbug. I agreed with his question, "Who is we?".

We (PLShutterbug and I) agree -- at least I think we do.

We (the thread OP and I) don't agree.

We (you and I) appear to possibly agree, a bit of a surprise to me since so frequently it seems we (you and I) end up at odds in this forum :)
 
Nikon, please issue updated flashes designed to work with the peculiarities of the Z System!
This would mean a green focus-assist, as the only 'peculiarity' is the lack of ability to use the long-existing red/IR focus-assist.
Lately, there have been many threads about problems using flash with the Z System.
What problems? My SB-5000's and SB-500's work perfectly. As does my SB-900.

The only change I would make to the SB-5000 is the green focus-assist. So call it an SB-5000G ;)
Nikon also needs to embrace RF technology without requiring additional devices to use RF remote flash
"needs"? How many people actually use OCF? Almost none outside of the echo chamber of online fora. Perhaps on an upcoming flagship model, but otherwise unlikely. And the WR-11a/b do more than control OCF.
 
And this one, acknowledging that banding is possible (with a Z9):

https://support.profoto.com/support...ikon-z9-work-with-profoto-lights-and-remotes-

So it seems that even Profoto flashes were/are not 100% compatible.
It could also be the case that Profoto flashes are indeed 100% compatible and that the issue is flash compatibility with Nikon's stacked sensor. Maybe even Nikon, if they made a new flash, would have issues with banding using the electronic shutter.
Exactly what I think, to be honest! Therefore I am hoping the next Z7 III has a mechanical shutter.

But in my "world" this is not 100% compatibility. :-D

100% compatibility should mean: all functions work flawlessly, work as intended.
And I can't imagine that banding is not a flaw. ;-)
 
Nikon, please issue updated flashes designed to work with the peculiarities of the Z System! (But, please, keep the top-of-the line well under $1K. $1K for Canon's top-of-the line is ridiculously absurd for a flash!)

Lately, there have been many threads about problems using flash with the Z System. Canon has recently issued new flashes that work with their R System, I think Nikon is way overdue in doing the same. Nikon also needs to embrace RF technology without requiring additional devices to use RF remote flash, as is the case with the SB 5000. Nikon used to be the leader here; why have they let things slip?
I also have to agree and disagree.

What I would like to see is some clarity in relation to Nikon's lighting products, but more importantly for me I would like to understand what, if anything, the Nikon Profoto alliance will bring to market.
Amen to that!
Yes - the Red AF assist light in "older" Nikon speedlights is close to useless when used with mirrorless cameras. AND so either a green light or white modelling light (like Canon's latest speedlight has) would help.
I believe Nikon should have issued a new flash with AF-assist compatible with Z focus systems at the time the Z6 and Z7 were first issued. It should have been a flash, similar to the old SB-80DX (before my Nikon time), with two switchable AF-assist systems: one being the conventional IR for DSLR's and the other for ML cameras (whatever type of light would be compatible).
The Nikon SB-500 (launched in 2014) has a boasts an onboard high-intensity LED light that’s ideal for movie recording AND helps mirrorless camera's find focus. "There is no AF illuminator, but there is a continuous-light white LED video helper light where the AF illuminator used to be."

AND NO -- having bought into the SB range a few decades ago I found them to be too limiting (low power, small heads, lack of rechargeable batteries (yes I do not include AA), poor light fidelity etc....) and so bought into Profoto - starting with A1 and now B10X Plus heads - the difference is immense (and yes they are more expensive). Watch any Seth Miranda vid on the subject to gain a fuller understanding.

Goodox is a challenged supplier from my perspective -- as they are not an alliance partner their products will always be at risk when a new product (Z8/Z9) or camera firmware update is issued. I have seen a few posts on the banding issue with Godox lights in High Speed Sync. AN issue that simply does not happen when I shoot with Profoto strobes or A10 "speedlights". I have not used the newest Godox V1 pro (which looks a little like an A10 but still has a RED AF assist light, but also a modelling light) or the AD600Pro (WITSTRO All-in-One Outdoor Flash AD600Pro) -- both seem interesting and clearly hit the OP's <$1000 price point (when Profoto almost certainly will not) - obviously one may need to add a Nikon compliant TTL trigger.

It is clear that while one can buy "cheap" solutions, which work well in many set-ups, these are often compromised when one looks to push the envelope. As with so much of life -- there is a price -vs- capability trade-off to be considered.
I must admit, I have not researched much what the third-party flash manufacturers are offering. Your insights and those of other contributors have been helpful in making me more aware what is out there. Basically, I would consider myself a frugal enthusiast, who has historically preferred to use OEM flashes on my cameras. I have two SB-800's and one SB-910.
Dear OP -- have a look at the SB-500 and the latest Godox "Pro" flashes
I purchased an SB-500 in June. I like it. Shown below are some snaps with it and my wife's Zfc.

Flash bounced off a white ceiling.

Flash bounced off a white ceiling.

Direct flash.

Direct flash.

In the end, I believe the discussion in this thread was needed.

--
Fred
Shot Minolta SLR/DSLR and Sony DSLR 1978-2008. Switched to Nikon in 2009.
 
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Yes, that is the point of my agreement with the earlier poster to who I was replying. I don't know who the original thread poster means by "we".
OK. That's a valid question that I agree with.
When I see new threads started with "We demand", "we want", or something similar, I find myself questioning who is being referred to? I also find myself a bit troubled by the possibility that the OP is presuming to speak for the forum collective as a whole. I don't know that's the case, but that's how such posts, including this one, come across to me. Hence my reply to the PLShutterbug. I agreed with his question, "Who is we?".
The problem, I believe, is that most people don't respond with "who is we?" as simply asking a poster to define his "we" set of people. It's usually a sort of snarky response that means something like "who gave you the authority to speak for all of us".
We (PLShutterbug and I) agree -- at least I think we do.

We (the thread OP and I) don't agree.

We (you and I) appear to possibly agree, a bit of a surprise to me since so frequently it seems we (you and I) end up at odds in this forum :)
No that you've added more context to your response I think you and I do agree on this. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what the OP can write to clarify as to who he means by "we". The "we" he refers to is the set of people that want an updated flash from Nikon. I'm sure he's not the only one out there so "I" becomes "we".

Now, if he starts calling out the set of features for an updated flash using the collective "we", then I think he's gone too far.
 
Nikon gave up on modern flash units a while ago. The SB-800 was state of the art at the time. And then Nikon got stuck there. I gave up and switched to radio flash with 2 Godox units. They work great, are easily controlled at the camera, and come with high quality lightweight batteries. They serve me well, and I've never looked back. And yes, I've done weddings and paid gigs with these units.
Interesting post, because I think the same thing from what remember. I purchased a gaggle of SB800's for the shop and they were sublime. Excellent is an understatement in my view. I still use the SB800 with everything from Nikons, Canons, and various medium format bodies. When I started shooting Canon a lot (back in the Canon 5DII days), I vowed not to buy another proprietary speed light.

I don't care about TTL, etc., and use/ meter the flashes manually, so the SB800s still work wonders putting light where I need it when on location especially in conjunction with studio strobes.

Often I'll attach a radio receiver to the SB800 and go from there. I'll even use the programable stroboscopic feature on the SB800 to essentially give me that feature on my Broncolor pack which doesn't offer a strobe feature as comprehensive as the SB800's.. I'll program the Hertz and how many flashes I want, and I'll aim the SB800 at the Broncolor pack, the pack's optical eye will allow the pack to mimic the SB800's programmed flash/Hertz parameters ... thus giving me a feature on the broncolor pack that doesn't exist on the pack at all :)

The subsequent Nikon speedlights (e.g. SB900 and its overheating issues, etc.) put me off. I knew I had made the right decision. Keep what I have, and just use the speed lights to augment proper studio strobes and the Metz 76 MZ - 5 (used with Quantum battery pack).

--
Teila K. Day
http://teiladay.com
 
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I'll even use the programable stroboscopic feature on the SB800 to essentially give me that feature on my Broncolor pack which doesn't offer a strobe feature as comprehensive as the SB800's.. I'll program the Hertz and how many flashes I want, and I'll aim the SB800 at the Broncolor pack, the pack's optical eye will allow the pack to mimic the SB800's programmed flash/Hertz parameters ... thus giving me a feature on the broncolor pack that doesn't exist on the pack at all :)
Ingenious use of SB800.
 
The Godox even the pro have banding above 1/2000 which is annoying. I don't know if they will fix that but it's not too bad, for my use as usually I am using the Nikon's when that comes into the mix.
(...) My understanding is the Broncolor have a different approach to HSS than most other manufacturers. "Broncolor RFS 2.2 transmitter and the Broncolor HS" -- what is the difference between Broncolor HS and HSS (a few others like Elinchrom use HS not "just" HSS)
Broncolor uses HSS (not HS) on the new SATOS packs. You are correct that Broncolor uses HS with the MOVE pack and Siros lights. Hopefully the've come up with a way with the multi-battery arrangement to make the power output quite high while in HSS mode.
Correct SIROS is what the studio I used had.

Out of interest Nikon Alliance Partner Nissin Digital also has speedlights that work with mirrorless - all the latest have a built in modelling lights (and are cheaper than Profoto).
Noting the point that all reporting of Nikon leaving the lighting business are purely speculation - it is "interesting" that both alliance partners deliver products that work very well with Nikon mirrorless bodies.

The most powerful Nissin off camera speedlight MG10 comes bundled with a Nikon compliant Air 10s TTL (wireless) trigger or one can use the on camera Nissin MG80 Pro (which has a built in 10s)
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67228923

Not so much these days, but I made a lot of use from the Metz 76 MZ -5 ... which I could use on Canon, Nikon, medium format... didn't matter since I don't use TTL. The bulk of my usage is studio strobes.

I don't think I'll ever by another proprietary speed light again. The Nikon SB800 has been excellent in my use over many years, but until they die, that's the end of the road for me outside of studio strobes.

If the Nissin brand works - work it! and don't look back.
 
What I want from Nikon is rational auto iso behavior when my z8 senses a flash attached …
 
Nikon, please issue updated flashes designed to work with the peculiarities of the Z System! (But, please, keep the top-of-the line well under $1K. $1K for Canon's top-of-the line is ridiculously absurd for a flash!)

Lately, there have been many threads about problems using flash with the Z System. Canon has recently issued new flashes that work with their R System, I think Nikon is way overdue in doing the same. Nikon also needs to embrace RF technology without requiring additional devices to use RF remote flash, as is the case with the SB 5000. Nikon used to be the leader here; why have they let things slip?
Good luck. But which "problems using flash with the Z System" have you heard about? It's news to me that there are any problems at all.
 
And this one, acknowledging that banding is possible (with a Z9):

https://support.profoto.com/support...ikon-z9-work-with-profoto-lights-and-remotes-

So it seems that even Profoto flashes were/are not 100% compatible.
It could also be the case that Profoto flashes are indeed 100% compatible and that the issue is flash compatibility with Nikon's stacked sensor. Maybe even Nikon, if they made a new flash, would have issues with banding using the electronic shutter.
Exactly what I think, to be honest! Therefore I am hoping the next Z7 III has a mechanical shutter.

But in my "world" this is not 100% compatibility. :-D

100% compatibility should mean: all functions work flawlessly, work as intended.
And I can't imagine that banding is not a flaw. ;-)
I know what you're saying but I guess I can't quite agree with that definition of "compatible".

Using that definition of compatibility, no flash is 100% compatible with a camera because you can't shoot at a shutter speed faster than 1/200 or you get a shadow band at the bottom of the frame.

I guess you can say it's not 100% compatible in that case. But that's not what most people mean when they use the word.
 
Good luck. But which "problems using flash with the Z System" have you heard about? It's news to me that there are any problems at all.
The most obvious "problem" is that the flash's AF assist light doesn't work with mirrorless cameras. I don't really care about this but many people do.

Another "problem" would be the banding that occurs under some conditions with the Z8 and Z9 that have no mechanical shutter.

I'm not sure if there are other "peculiarities" of Nikon flashes when mounted on a Z body. But those seem to be the two things most mentioned.
 
I agree. my 5000's work fine. and truthfully I try not to use on camera flash as much as possible. I have it for those times that are needed and I do work in some fairly dark spaces. When I need bigger guns on location, I bring out my Buff Digi Bees. I feel Nikon is doing a fabulous job in kicking out some insanely great tools. And generally what I noticed is they don't put something out on the market until it is ready. So maybe there will be a new Nikon flash coming, I don't know but I also don't care as I already have the tools I need to do my job.
 
I have not experienced any banding with SB 5000 and Z8. can you direct me to posts that indicate there is banding with Nikon flash units and Z8/9
 
Nikon, please issue updated flashes designed to work with the peculiarities of the Z System! (But, please, keep the top-of-the line well under $1K. $1K for Canon's top-of-the line is ridiculously absurd for a flash!)

Lately, there have been many threads about problems using flash with the Z System. Canon has recently issued new flashes that work with their R System, I think Nikon is way overdue in doing the same. Nikon also needs to embrace RF technology without requiring additional devices to use RF remote flash, as is the case with the SB 5000. Nikon used to be the leader here; why have they let things slip?
As others have said, I'd get a third party solution, like Profoto or Godox. I can get 2 Godox flashes and a trigger for about the same price as one SB700 an really quailty isn't that much inferior (the hotshoe mounts are perhaps not as sturdy but otherwise they work just as well but just cost a fraction of the price, although they do lack some features over say the SB700 even). But for 1/3 of the price I'm OK with it.
 
I have not experienced any banding with SB 5000 and Z8. can you direct me to posts that indicate there is banding with Nikon flash units and Z8/9
Unfortunately, no I can't. I seem to recall that someone recently posted examples of a Nikon flash and a Godox flash. The Nikon was much better than the Godox for banding but it was still present to some degree if you looked.

At least that's what I recall.
 
plus they have incredible, robust Lion batteries ... a drastic improvement
 
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plus they have incredible, robust Lion batteries ... a drastic improvement
I might enjoy an SB-5000G with a useful auto-focus assist beam and an EN-EL15 battery instead of AA's.

But the Godox V860 batteries didn't last as long as I would have liked, and Nikon users have an EN-EL15 charger nearby. And the SB-5000 with good rechargeable AAs recycles about as fast as an 860.
 

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