Huge audio issue with S5ii - anyone else?

Short Version:

Bought the S5ii to record a 22-day canoe trip and got back to find that the camera creates a sound similar to electronic-sounding crickets, easily noticeable on any quiet scene (video samples embedded, 3 different days/locations).

S5ii owners, could you please let me know if you experience the same? You may not detect it with speakers but it's clear when monitoring with headphones on my device. Seems like it only happens when recording in full frame mode.



Long version / troubleshooting I've tried:

I record nature scenes which are often quiet and this faint ringing sound is very bad. I'm also getting a terrible amount of whistling from the wind (despite deadcat) whereas with the same mic and settings on the S5, I do not (same wind cut setting).

I've used the original S5 w/ 20-60mm extensively for video over the last year without these issues. At first I assumed the noise was the new fan (annoyingly the fan cannot be forced off in video mode for users not pushing temperature limits) but I don't think so...when I force the fan on it and monitor the sound, it's different.

Toggled on and off almost every setting (including AF and image stabilization settings) and eventually found two variables that affect the problem.
1. Continuous AF Mode
-In Mode 1, continuous AF initiates when video recording starts. Sound exists before and during recording
-In Mode 2, continuous AF works all the time, even before hitting record. Sound exists during recording but not before
-Off: Sound exists before and during recording
-These results are the opposite you'd expect if the sound is from the AF motor since the problem starts even before it engages. But ultimately the problem exists once I start recording with any of the three modes.
2. Image Area of Video
-Full frame: issue exists (even if I drop down to 1080p)
-APS-C or Pixel-by-pixel crop: issue goes away

So the only way to stop it is to shoot with a crop which is a ridiculous non-solution for anyone who shelled out the dough for a full frame camera.



In photo modes, I can still monitor my audio with the headphone jack but the sound goes away. Comes back immediately when I switch back to movie mode, so clearly it's a function that initiates for video.

Other things I've tried to isolate the issue that didn't change anything:

1. Body and lens set to MF
2. All stabilization off
3. Different headphones
4. Another lens (Sigma)
5. Two different LUMIX 20-60 lenses
6. Two different Rode Video Micro mics
7. Unplugged the external mic and listened with onboard mics, sound is still there so it's not compatibility with the Rode Video Micro
8. Pulled Rode mic off the hotshoe, pointed mic away from camera (directional mic) and put it physically 1ft away from the body. Sound is still there, almost like the sound is being embedded in the encoding rather than actually captured by the mic. All video formats record audio in Linear PCM so I can't change that to test it.
9. Aug 28: Updated S5ii firmware to v2.1 (released Aug 22)
10. Aug 29: Updated 20-60mm firmware to 1.2 (released Jan 10, 2023)
11. Tried same 20-60 on my original S5 and the issue is not present.

Unless someone has a solve I guess I'll be sending it in because I can't use it like this.

I think I can hear it (a slightly fluttering sound, when using my Sennheiser HD599), but I'd argue that you will have this frustration with any camera of any brand, because what you're trying to do here - environmental field recordings with very low sound levels - asks too much from the internal preamps.

My strong recommendation is to either get Panasonic's XLR hotshoe audio interface, which improves sound quality significantly, or to work with an external audio field recorder.

Whatever camera you will buy, when using a simple Rode mic and putting it into the camera's mini-jack port, you will always have problems with noisy/hissy preamps in such recording situations. From my own experience, I can tell that the sound issues would be even worse if you used for example a Sony A7 series or Blackmagic Pocket Camera with their mini jack ports.

On my Audio Technica monitoring cans (headphones) I hear nothing unusual (but I wasn’t there, so…). Nature is not really deviating to the unexpected here.

Now YouTube is not the best distribution format for deciding on faint”side effects”. Make the audio alone available for direct download (a Google link?)

Have you tried disabling stabilisation (all forms)?

I remember Panasonic receiving a looot of flack initially, when the GX80 was introduced (I was one of those affected). When IBIS was active audio recordings went “into the sewer” to become an acquired taste (for anybody but true fans, who would excuse anything;-)

The effect was “moderated” dramatically by a subsequent firmware update, but never went completely away.

Maybe, just maybe IBIS has some side effect on the internal audio circuits, when the camera is at rest, as the example indicates.

Try a better example, with no nature sounds.

I usually pack the microphone inside a rolled around blanket, placed inside a rolled duvet placed in my most quiet room (at deep night). This will get you the quietest recording possible in your premises (without introducing side effects).

When you start (manual level) recording establish the -6dB or -12dB level by recording some white noise, 1kHz or similar (before packing everything). You can always cut out the “packing noise” later. Otherwise we have no way to know, what levels are Involved in real life. Limiter and auto gain etc MUST BE OFF.

Any faint “chirps” are bound to stem from either microphone or camera.

Remember to turn on and off your smartphone too. If you’re outside in nature, your smartphone will often strain to try to stay connected, and may interfere with other systems.

Try with/without IBIS, manual focus.

Regards

Really appreciate the feedback.

Yeah it's like the rapidly fluttering high frequency of crickets.

Hardware
Throwing a Rode in the hot shoe is certainly not the *best* audio capture but countless vloggers do it and I think it's a fair expectation that there's not going to be a constant ringing sound with this approach, especially in MF with all stabilization off. It feels more like a bug to me considering that it's an issue with FF but not the crop modes. This is my third Panasonic body and the previous two had no issues with the same mic including the original S5. An XLR and accessories would be better but unfortunately aren't ideal for run-and-gun vloggers. I shot over 3,000 clips/scenes on this trip so my audio recording method has to be simple and convenient.

And the noise is still audible with the onboard mics when I unplug the Rode.

Funny you mention the Sony A7 series because another vlogger I know got the A7Siii and couldn't slap on this mic because it was peaking badly and he couldn't fix it. He got a different Rode that powers itself, rather than being powered by the camera. This is another option I'm considering.

I've had lenses that I know will produce sound when the OS or AF motor engages, but this is totally distinct from that.

Audio Only Sample
The YouTube audio sample is pretty true to form for me (I've tried playback with Beats cans and a boom box as well as direct monitoring from the camera with ear buds and the issue is constant) but here's a WAV file of just the audio.
My partner also hears the sound when I play the footage so it's not just my hearing.

Testing
I've tried toggling all variations of AF and IBIS and even with both completely off, the problem persists when in full frame mode. The sound begins and stops the millisecond I toggle FF mode. Naturally, I want to film FF with my FF camera and don't want to crop my wide focal lengths.

I tried your test wrapped in blankets and would provide a sample but it sounds exactly the same. And the footage from this 22-day canoe trip was all off the grid, no cell signal, with my phone in airplane mode to extend battery life.

1. l never mentioned Sony (the GX80 is a Panasonic product).

2. Have you tried the same recording, with far more distance to the Røde RX-module?

It seems the only real difference is FF and crop mode. In the latter case, crop mode, a huge part of the sensor is probably not in active/powered use, and the distance to the radio circuit in the Røde RX module larger.

Whether YouTubers position the Røde module on cameras or not, does not mean that it will always be without side effects. Why not try to use the Røde module separates, let’s sat 30cm/1 foot from the Camera, by a reasonable cable (or even a longer distance).

Just to establish, if this removes the effect, when the Camera is in FF mode. If this is the case, it may indicate a shielding problem in the RX module.

Which specific Røde product do you use in which settings (is firmware fully updated)? I have Røde Wireless Go II - a year or more old - RX plus two TX modules fully updated too.

What cable are you using currently. Original or something else/shorter/from other product?

Before we go further:

a) does distance lower FF problems?

b) what product with which settings (most recent firmware)?

Then let’s decide, what to do next.

Regards

Greetings

I know I don't own Panasonic cameras, but one of my Fuji X-H1s did something similar, just in the right channel. I finally sent it back to Fuji and it came back working fine, with a new and rather expensive mainboard. (I bought it used so, long past warranty).

I'd say send it in, since the same lenses and external hardware work fine on your other bodies. It sounds like a warranty issue to me.

Any updates? I had 2 S5II, both had the same issue. And I sent it to Professional Electronics for warranty work

I believe the noise you are picking up is actually inducted interference from the CPU. That would explain why it changes when using different recording resolutions.
Recording quiet nature sounds is demanding even for expensive professional mics and recorders. I think you may be expecting too much from the built in audio hardware. In a “normal” situation on a busy street or event the internal background noise would probably be masked by ambient sound.
A better Rode mic such as Videomic NTG (mono shotgun) or Stereo Videomic X would do the trick without getting too complicated. These mics have built in battery powered amplification and better shielding from electrical interference. And very important wind protection.

Sorry, I've been trying to get answers before adding any more of my speculation here.

@winnegehetoch, yeah I've tried extending the cable (3.5mm TRS to TRRS cable) on the mic (Rode Video Micro) to get it away from the body. No impact.

Importantly, I've since tried it with a powered mic and the problem is the same.

Also updated the body firmware that was released yesterday to v2.2 and no change.

@PHER13, now that I've tried the above (my last hopes), I plan to send it in to Professional Electronics. Did you have any luck? Thank you for the peace of mind that it's not just me.

@Ed Jefferson thanks for this. I've been using the original S5 with the exact same mic and other aspects for over a year with no problem, hence my expectations for the S5ii.

I've since tried a friend's powered mic (Rode VideoMic Pro) but still the same problem. I'd consider buying a Videomic NTG but with PHER13's reply I know it's not just me

Do you have any updates on the issue?

I recently got a s5ii and the noise level is abhorrent. Even at LOW gain, 96Hz, -18dB there is noise. Tried it various line outs (phone, xlr mic through mixer, Sennheiser MKE 440) and it’s always present. Whats weird is that I can’t get it to act consistently. At first, it was only noise, but now it has the cricketing sounds too if I am not using the build in mic, which can get even worse when I switch to AF.

Updating the firmware didn’t help. Maybe I might also call Panasonic but perhaps I will just look to record externally as well (or use xlr1?).

This guy had similar problems but they switched it to a new camera and now he says the problems are gone. But what I find strange is that I still hear the hiss (assuming he records with the s5iix) which seems to much for me.

Have you tried recording a 1 Khz test-tone and then "silence" with your camera and mic rig to see what the actual noise floor is ?

Generally with consumer cameras from Panasonic I get a noise-floor rating between -70 dB RMS and -75 db RMS, which can sound fairly quiet as long as you don't add more than 10 dB of audio gain when processing your audio. ( when I used to shoot with Canon APS-C cameras, they could barely achieve an audio noise-floor of -60 dB RMS, so audio noise was often a problem )

To get better audio quality than this you need to go with a pro recorder ( like a Sound-Devices MixPre II ) which has a noise floor of -100 dB RMS or better, and it can add a lot more gain that is very quiet in the finished recording.

Your camera audio is usually the weakest link when it comes to making a low-noise recording.

The camera is in service center now, they confirmed they found the problem, hopefully they find a solution too, or else I'll get something like Comica VM30 and record using the MIC direct out to camera while wirelessly recording audio to the new iPhone Pro (seems pretty sweet noise floor-wise) and then match it in post.

I did some quasi experiments measuring the noise floor before sending it, and while I can't confirm on the absolute noise floor level due to what I did, I did compare it to A7C which has 15dB less of noise when both were used on minimal camera gain and max line in gain.

Wow thanks for sharing that video...that was validating. I ended up doing the same as him.

I had a rode video micro which has no controls. Got a rode NTG and set its gain knob to 8 and the camera gain to -6. Now the crickets are virtually indectectable.

Based on this video I may send it in though...when I find a time I can be without it for a while.

@PHER and @illmate

Did either of you happen to get a resolution from Professional Electronics or whatever service center you sent it in to for warranty repair?

Jonatario said:

@PHER and @illmate

Did either of you happen to get a resolution from Professional Electronics or whatever service center you sent it in to for warranty repair?

Click to expand...

Not really, at first they said they noticed it, but when I got the camera back two weeks after they concluded everything works as intended.

I now resort to putting one of the DJI mic transmitters to the rig, and have the main out of the mic (MKE 400) go to it with +20db, and the headphone / monitor out to the camera. For each video clip, I record a different audio clip with the in-device recoding on the transmitter, and en-masse sync audio in Resolve. As long as I have one audio per video file, it works like a charm, though there are probably even better low-noise solutions out there.

It's reassuring to find your post as I'm having a comparable issue with my S5iiX. On my first video recording with it I was puzzled to find some rythmic beep-sounds present in the audio. I have tried different modes and setups and it varies according to video settings. You can hear a sample via the link. It's a recording in a room with no activity. The images here are of no interest, only the audio. File has been reduced and sound levels increased to make it clear what's going on. The curves have been added to the footage via DaVinci Resolve. That provides a visual cue as you will see the peaks syncronized with the beeps. It's a 4K50pMP4 recording using internal mics, no autofocus, no stabilization, no fan.

The internal mics do not produce the same sound quality as do my external, powered Sennheisers. But in terms of the beep-phenomenon the microphone is of no importance.

The beeping frequency, that is the 'rhythm', varies according to frame rate. This means that in 50p (I'm in PAL) there are more beeps than in 25p. Also, .MOV format is less 'beepy' than .MP4.

I have the older S5 and never had any issues of this kind with it. When I test it today I can put the two cameras in the exact same recording settings and the results wil come out differently: Beeps from the S5iiX, none from the S5.

The S5iiX has been through a complaint procedure with the shop I purchased it from. They have submitted it to a Panasonic Repair Center - a process lasting several weeks - from where it has been returned to me with the conclusion that everything is normal.

I would wish for Panasonic to acknowledge that this is a case of faulty circuitry and the camera should be repaired or replaced.

It's brutal that they are saying that the problem doesn't exist when it's easy to hear with headphones. This is why I was hesitant to send mine in...I feared such a lazy response. I guess I'll keep the gain knob on the mic up and in-camera gain down.

Thanks for the updates.

I also had the same problem. I bought both an S5II and S5IIx and returned both cameras instead of sending them in for repair because I expected exactly this reaction from a repair service: Everything works normally. I contacted Panasonic Switzerland customer service (the only email address I could find from Panasonic) and after several weeks of waiting I was told that Panasonic was aware of the problem and was working on a solution. Two weeks ago I bought a G9II (presumably similar hardware). The interference noise does not occur here, but there is a kind of audible frequency suppression that makes the sound tinny. I immediately returned the G9II. If this is to be the solution for the S5II/X in future, then goodbye Panasonic.