Nikon Z8 - Does not focus with Speedlight in lowlight

Hello,

Hoping some folks can share how shoot with a Z8 in very low light with a speedlight.

I shoot a lot of receptions/weddings. I'm finding that the Z8 is almost completely unusable in a somewhat dark room when trying to use a speedlight. I was recently photographing a party and every time that I'd approach a group to shoot a grip and grin, I ended up awkwardly standing there as I waited for the camera to search for focus.....which it never found at times. Totally embarrassing! If people are moving around on a dim dance floor, forget it. I'll miss almost every shot. I've been having to switch to my DSLR in these situations because the focus is instant. I've been shooting events for 15 years or so and never had this issue....even with old DSLR's.

I understand that mirrorless cameras do not trigger the red assist beam that speedlights are equipped with.

How are people working through this problem?

What AF modes are you using (still getting used to different AF modes as I've always been a back button, center focus, reframe kinda shooter...but that's another thread)

The bright green assist lamp is ok at times but is very noticeable and disrupts the shot.

I didn't realize this would be a problem until after I purchased the camera. I contacted Nikon with my concern and the only response I got was this:

"The SB-5000 has AF-assist illumination for multi-point AF. Please see the specifications in the link below for more information."

I have an SB900, SB910 and some third party flashes. Is the SB-5000 really any better in these situations?

The Z8 is great in well lit situation but it's really screwing me up where I really need the speed and accuracy.

Dunno. Maybe use single point AF and make sure the AF sensor is atop something with vertical/horizontal lines, and which has high contrast.

I don't think using the SB-5000 will change anything in your situation really...

In my experience, I had similar issue with Z6 when it first came out shooting dance floor at weddings. So ended up using a small size LED video light in low-med brightness setting for a camera to AF or just continuously using D750/D850 bodies for those specific situation.

Sb5000 also has IR/ red af assist light, so does not work on Z8.

what aperture are you shooting at as Z uses set aperture up to f5.6 and f5.6 thereafter. Dslr always does af with lens wide open and only stops down to set aperture for shutter release. Ie shoot f1.8 lens at f4, af is done at f4 on nikon Z.

Some people use modelling light now included on sb500 & godox v1 or a video light for extreme low light on mirrorless. See Neil van Niekerk setup


How is your custom setting d9 set, as af is better on my z6 ii when always except for flash - ie have no ambient exposure preview when flash is on. Af struggles more where viewfinder image is underexposed.

My z8 is with the couriers, waited for unit that is not effected by the 2 service advisories or fixed before shipped.

RedRob said:

Hello,

Hoping some folks can share how shoot with a Z8 in very low light with a speedlight.

I shoot a lot of receptions/weddings. I'm finding that the Z8 is almost completely unusable in a somewhat dark room when trying to use a speedlight. I was recently photographing a party and every time that I'd approach a group to shoot a grip and grin, I ended up awkwardly standing there as I waited for the camera to search for focus.....which it never found at times. Totally embarrassing! If people are moving around on a dim dance floor, forget it. I'll miss almost every shot. I've been having to switch to my DSLR in these situations because the focus is instant. I've been shooting events for 15 years or so and never had this issue....even with old DSLR's.

I understand that mirrorless cameras do not trigger the red assist beam that speedlights are equipped with.

How are people working through this problem?

What AF modes are you using (still getting used to different AF modes as I've always been a back button, center focus, reframe kinda shooter...but that's another thread)

The bright green assist lamp is ok at times but is very noticeable and disrupts the shot.

I didn't realize this would be a problem until after I purchased the camera. I contacted Nikon with my concern and the only response I got was this:

"The SB-5000 has AF-assist illumination for multi-point AF. Please see the specifications in the link below for more information."

I have an SB900, SB910 and some third party flashes. Is the SB-5000 really any better in these situations?

The Z8 is great in well lit situation but it's really screwing me up where I really need the speed and accuracy.

Click to expand...

Have to switch to single point autofocus. That's what I do on my Z9 and had done on my older DSLR. many times I'm picking out a particular person like the bride anyway. Multi zone AF will lock onto the wrong person on the dance floor when its darker , crowded and close up.

RedRob said:

I understand that mirrorless cameras do not trigger the red assist beam that speedlights are equipped with.

How are people working through this problem?

What AF modes are you using (still getting used to different AF modes as I've always been a back button, center focus, reframe kinda shooter...but that's another thread)

The bright green assist lamp is ok at times but is very noticeable and disrupts the shot.

I didn't realize this would be a problem until after I purchased the camera. I contacted Nikon with my concern and the only response I got was this:

"The SB-5000 has AF-assist illumination for multi-point AF. Please see the specifications in the link below for more information."

I have an SB900, SB910 and some third party flashes. Is the SB-5000 really any better in these situations?

The Z8 is great in well lit situation but it's really screwing me up where I really need the speed and accuracy.

Click to expand...

I understand the speedlights shone an LED AF assist pattern that matched the Multicam 2000 chipset that supported the autofocus on the DSLRs. The mirrorless cameras uses a different method that covers more of the sensor area, so that LED pattern is not compatible.

The mirrorless cameras (at least the more recent ones) do have their own low light autofocus beam, with a range of up to about 3m, that activates unless disabled - called on the Z9 and therefore I assume Z8 the AF assist illuminator - though you might need to remove lens hoods and doesn't work under minimum distances of less than 0.5 to 1.0 m - depending on lens. I have found that works rather well - although I have not used in extreme low light without flash modelling lights.

--
Simon
https://www.flickr.com/people/suffolkimages/

Use AF-S instead of AF-C in low light. There is a huge difference in AF speed in low light between the two, in favour of AF-S. Try it out and see the difference...

RedRob said:

Hoping some folks can share how shoot with a Z8 in very low light with a speedlight.

Click to expand...

There "clearly" is an issue with the traditional red Af assist light and AF on mirrorless cameras.

The focus assist light on the Z8 s green and you must remove any lens hood and shoot within 3m from subjects for it to be effective.

If you want to shoot from further away or struggle with the AF-assist light you need to add more white light.

The 1st and probably least helpful answer to you (but it works) is to switch to a Profoto A10 (or others like qat least one of the Godox) which have a white modelling light built in -- it works great but you will need to buy a bunch of spare lithium batteries for it.

The 2nd option would be to add a small LED light panel to your camera to add some constant white light (ideally the same colour/temp as your flash). Obviously this will also need to be powered or be rechargeable. Go hunt on amazon and work out how you can add this to your rig without it blocking the speedlight flash - I see options at $30 or so.

RedRob said:

How are people working through this problem?

What AF modes are you using (still getting used to different AF modes as I've always been a back button, center focus, reframe kinda shooter...but that's another thread)

"The SB-5000 has AF-assist illumination for multi-point AF. Please see the specifications in the link below for more information."

I have an SB900, SB910 and some third party flashes. Is the SB-5000 really any better in these situations?

Click to expand...

My Z8 and works fine wide open and stopped down a little with the A10 and white LED and with a Z8 in starlight mode, pin-point AF-S, and in my experience a full range of other AF modes. When a specific point or target is chosen that has good horizontal contrast/detail. Like the edge of an eye.

In 2022 Canon launched the EL-5, its first mirrorless compatible speedlight, which has a built in modeling lamp for this very issue.

--
areallygrumpyoldsod
Nikon and Hasselblad shooter -- wildlife and and --
https://www.andymillerphoto.co.uk/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajm057/
I do not respond to PMs or messages via my website

aniltulsi said:

Use AF-S instead of AF-C in low light. There is a huge difference in AF speed in low light between the two, in favour of AF-S. Try it out and see the difference...

Click to expand...

Absoutely correct. Using AF-S will usually nail focus in very low light immediately. It avoids the typical hunting of AF-C.

I almost always use S focus.

That is actually how I focus....still not used to the auto detection modes and alway end up switching back to good ol' single point focus.

Can also focus manually.

Just eyeball the distance and turn the lens to match using the distance scale.

You can become quite good at estimating distance in feet or meters.

Set to f/11 to cover any focusing inaccuracy and shoot! XD

--
irc.libera.chat #photogeeks

RedRob said:

Hello,

Hoping some folks can share how shoot with a Z8 in very low light with a speedlight.

I shoot a lot of receptions/weddings. I'm finding that the Z8 is almost completely unusable in a somewhat dark room when trying to use a speedlight. I was recently photographing a party and every time that I'd approach a group to shoot a grip and grin, I ended up awkwardly standing there as I waited for the camera to search for focus.....which it never found at times. Totally embarrassing! If people are moving around on a dim dance floor, forget it. I'll miss almost every shot. I've been having to switch to my DSLR in these situations because the focus is instant. I've been shooting events for 15 years or so and never had this issue....even with old DSLR's.

I understand that mirrorless cameras do not trigger the red assist beam that speedlights are equipped with.

How are people working through this problem?

What AF modes are you using (still getting used to different AF modes as I've always been a back button, center focus, reframe kinda shooter...but that's another thread)

The bright green assist lamp is ok at times but is very noticeable and disrupts the shot.

I didn't realize this would be a problem until after I purchased the camera. I contacted Nikon with my concern and the only response I got was this:

"The SB-5000 has AF-assist illumination for multi-point AF. Please see the specifications in the link below for more information."

I have an SB900, SB910 and some third party flashes. Is the SB-5000 really any better in these situations?

The Z8 is great in well lit situation but it's really screwing me up where I really need the speed and accuracy.

Click to expand...

I usually switch to AF-S mode in low-light so the camera doesn't have to hunt, it just has to try to lock focus (not search for the subject). In many cases, it does improve the actual lock rate for me, or my trick is to find something that is at the same plane of focus as the subject that has enough contrast, and then focus-and-recompose as a last resort.

RedRob said:

Hoping some folks can share how shoot with a Z8 in very low light with a speedlight.

Click to expand...

Custom Setting #D8 > Show effects of settings > Only when flash is not used

One company is making LIDAR system for Blackmagic video cameras. Maybe the company will make a LIDAR system which can AF Nikon Z cameras & lenses.

Wonder if Nikon Z's AF system would function with blue to ultraviolet light provided by AF assist. We know Z's AF system works with green light provided by AF assist. Blue to UV would not be as annoying to people's eyes in low-light as Green.

Thom Hogan said:

RedRob said:

Hoping some folks can share how shoot with a Z8 in very low light with a speedlight.

Click to expand...

Custom Setting #D8 > Show effects of settings > Only when flash is not used

Click to expand...

To be honest, I don't know this option improves AF accuracy or speed -- I think it's mainly for ease of viewing the scene in the EVF when a trigger or flash is attached.

--
NOTE: If I don't reply to a direct comment in the forums, it's likely I unsubscribed from the thread/article..

I've got an event shoot coming up. Ahead of that I'll be trying on my Godox V1 with the modeling light working as a focus assist. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

Thom Hogan said:

RedRob said:

Hoping some folks can share how shoot with a Z8 in very low light with a speedlight.

Click to expand...

Custom Setting #D8 > Show effects of settings > Only when flash is not used

Click to expand...

Would starlight mode help?

Fortunately I am no longer a pro wedding photographer (was for 20 years) but your AF issues are the Achilles heel of mirrorless cameras; very low light or back lit or moody with active subjects typical of weddings and Bar Mitzvahs.

When I do still encounter these situations I know make sure I always have my D500 and 16-80 to shoot flash at ISO 800 around F5 or my D750 with 24-70 2.8 (but I really find the D750 combo heavy and uncomfortable to work with after 5 years of using my Z6 and 24-70F4

I tried a variety of tricks with the Z6, such as an LED light (annoying to the subject and still not powerful enough) and different AF mode. I find the AFS auto area tracking box the best in Z poor focusing situations if the subjects are not moving around. But forget about dancers!

But simple focusing gets so stressful in these situations with the Z6 that it is just easier to have the D500. Maybe one in 25 jobs I fill I need to pull out the D500. When I do, my second body the Z6 for no flash higher ISO (1600 to 128000) available light images with a fast lens open in the 1.4 to 2.8 range. Here the Z6 has not problem in low light even with action AND the Z6 focuses way more accurately at open F stops than any DSLR ever did.

I was hoping the Z9/8 would solve this problem but from yours and other posts it does not sound like it does. Another reason I won't buy it, too expensive for not solving the problem so I rather wait for a more affordable Z6III even if it does not improve on this specific situation.

RedRob said:

Hello,

Hoping some folks can share how shoot with a Z8 in very low light with a speedlight.

I shoot a lot of receptions/weddings. I'm finding that the Z8 is almost completely unusable in a somewhat dark room when trying to use a speedlight. I was recently photographing a party and every time that I'd approach a group to shoot a grip and grin, I ended up awkwardly standing there as I waited for the camera to search for focus.....which it never found at times. Totally embarrassing! If people are moving around on a dim dance floor, forget it. I'll miss almost every shot. I've been having to switch to my DSLR in these situations because the focus is instant. I've been shooting events for 15 years or so and never had this issue....even with old DSLR's.

I understand that mirrorless cameras do not trigger the red assist beam that speedlights are equipped with.

How are people working through this problem?

Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear this RedRob. I am also a wedding/event photographer, but I suppose I don't seem to have this issue. I know others here seem to as well, and I'm not doubting you or that this is a very real dilemma.

What works for me usually is either Single-Point or Dynamic mode, but placed on a contrast-y part of a subject. Sometimes that's a face, but other times that's a shirt collar, with perhaps some tie in it. Unlike the others here though, I am almost always in AF-C mode, and virtually never switch to AF-S. When I find focus I just let go of the back button, I do not use the shutter button for focus.

I typically also use faster lenses, at or near wide-open for these scenarios. When I'm using a 24-70mm f/2.8, I'm very often at f/2.8. For a grip-and-grin, I'm usually at or wider than 35mm, or 10 feet or further away, so I figure I only need to stop down for large groups because I should have a good amount in focus even at f/2.8.

I mention this because it's important to understand that Nikon mirrorless (all mirrorless I think?) focus with the lens' aperture blades already stopped down -up to f/5.6. This is unlike DSLR, which focused at max aperture. If you're shooting at f/5.6, well, your camera sees through an f/5.6 lens instead of that nice, fast lens you have in front of it. I think f/5.6 used to be an upper limit on some DSLR's for center focusing points; regardless, if this is the case, consider widening up your aperture a bit if you can.

*P.S. if you're wondering if there's a setting you can change to force your Z into focusing at max aperture, and close down for actual shooting like a DSLR, well, there isn't one. Studio shooters have been asking for this since the dawn of Z, still hasn't happened, so I doubt we'll ever see this.

RedRob said:

What AF modes are you using (still getting used to different AF modes as I've always been a back button, center focus, reframe kinda shooter...but that's another thread)

Click to expand...

With my Z8 I don't usually have to leave Wide Area AF Small with auto-Subject detection.

Saying that, from using Z6/Z7/Z7ii cameras for weddings and receptions, I found that Dynamic mode works very, very well for low light. In the handful of times the Z8 seemed to be struggling with Wide Area Small - Subject Detection, I switched it over to the Dynamic (Small) and it worked better. I generally don't focus-and-recompose much anymore, but I do find myself doing it from time to time.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Dynamic so far in the thread. I think it works better than Single-Point, personally.

RedRob said:

The bright green assist lamp is ok at times but is very noticeable and disrupts the shot.

Click to expand...

I hate the thing on all my Z cameras too, so it is off.

RedRob said:

I didn't realize this would be a problem until after I purchased the camera. I contacted Nikon with my concern and the only response I got was this:

"The SB-5000 has AF-assist illumination for multi-point AF. Please see the specifications in the link below for more information."

I have an SB900, SB910 and some third party flashes. Is the SB-5000 really any better in these situations?

Click to expand...

Honestly I wouldn't imagine any of the flashes, Nikon branded or not, would help. If you had a flash with a modeling light perhaps that would help you, but I'd imagine that would be more obtrusive than the green AF assist beam. I use Godox V1's, and they trigger AD300Pro's when an event calls for it.

RedRob said:

The Z8 is great in well lit situation but it's really screwing me up where I really need the speed and accuracy.

Click to expand...

The transition from DSLR to mirrorless, in general, can be a bit of a learning curve. Most people anticipate the EVF being the biggest change, but for me it was using autofocus. I came from a D500, and I'll be honest I struggled at first getting anything working in low-light on the Z6 and Z7. I eventually got it though, and I know you will too with the Z8.

One other tip/feature, have you tried Focus Peaking? If you have it on, and are in AF-C mode, you can hold down the focus button (back button for me, should work with shutter half press too) and just turn the lens's focus ring a tiny bit. Your camera should the illuminate everything that it thinks is in focus, and if it's off you can quickly just manually focus and get the shot. -I don't use this much anymore, but it's something that helped me out tremendously in my Z6/Z7 days when I was learning the ways of mirrorless. Whenever I do use this now, it's usually in daylight when shooting large 40+ person family group photos. This saves me from taking a shot, chimping all over my screen to see if I got everyone at f/whatever, taking another shot, repeating, etc. Cool feature, even if you don't end up using it.

Good luck!