Not knowing what the final image will look like is killing me.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nebell
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It works in M-mode and A-mode. It doesn't work in S-mode.

It doesn't work in S-mode. Stop suggesting a solution without testing if it works or not.

It doesn't work, I'm tired of people telling me in both posts and direct messages about it and how there's a solution that works but I'm not listening to it.

Its not a solution because it doesn't work.
People are trying to help. If you don't like the answer, or feel that it's repetitious or incorrect, then simply ignore it and move on. This sort of attitude rapidly gets people on ignore lists. Also, complaining about the camera's operation won't change anything. If it doesn't meet your needs and desires, then replace it with something that does.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fuji Forum co-Mod
 
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I just did some tests with my X100S
However from the pics of the LCD screen that OP provided it looks like the aperture parameter was already at its widest possible for that lens. That's because the aperture value in his preview image is colored red to show that it'd need to go wider for proper exposure but can't.

To me it simply looks like the camera can't match the desired exposure because ISO and SS are manually fixed while aperture is in auto mode but has already reached the physical limit of the lens. Yet the exposure preview shows what the image would have looked like if the desired exposure had been possible instead of showing what is actually possible and will be produced once the shot is taken.
The type in bold is definitely true with my camera with Aperture priority and ISO and Shutter Speed fixed. That is, my camera's LCD display behaved exactly the same as the Original Poster's.
I'm a bit confused by what you mean here with "aperture priority". If the ISO and SS are also fixed then aren't you in full manual mode?

In aperture priority mode OP's problem should only appear once the shutter speed would need to get slower than 1/30 sec (at chosen Maximum Sensitivity), or once the shutter speed would need to get faster than 1/32000 sec (at base ISO). These should be very extreme conditions and extremely rare in practice.

In shutter speed priority mode the problem appears much sooner however, because the aperture range is much more limited than SS range so the camera doesn't have much available range to work in in low light. At the same time bigger SS range also allows you to set crazier demands with very fast SS. Unlike with aperture priority and Min. Shutter Speed setting the camera can't override the physically limit of your lens's widest aperture. But if you simply give the full ISO range to Auto ISO then that's practically the same as the camera overriding your Maximum Sensitivity setting and having a wider range to work in.
Thanks to you, phohod, I've learnt there are occasions when I need to activate Auto ISO rather than miss the shot or get an inferior shot.
That's what I've been recommending to OP as well. There's no reason not to use higher ISOs if the choice is between getting the shot or missing it, and it's better to get exposure right in camera. The fact that you also get correct exposure preview is a welcome side effect.

Having said that, I also see OP's complaint as valid. There's no good reason for the camera not to provide you with an option to always show exposure preview. Fujifilm's own marketing boasts about WYSIWYG. The red warning symbols are bare minimum but it's very easy to miss them when there's a lot of action going on in front of your camera, whereas exposure preview is immediately obvious.
I don't want high ISO. I want it the lowest possible as higher than base ISO is useless to me.

You people don't get it what I'm trying to say. Read this post:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67211177

Here's a practical example why I set up the way I do.

S-priority so the camera reacts only to shutter changes.
Base ISO.

I shoot very slow paninng motorsport shots, sometimes as low as 1/13th. That makes the images very bright, so I don't want high ISO. It's unneccessary image degradation.
Being in S-priority if the image becomes way too bright the aperture goes to something like F4 or F5.6 or whatever to compensate.
However I do use variable ND filter to set the correct exposure and get as close to f2.8 as possible, otherwise I get a lot of dust showing up.
If the exposure is initially set correctly and there's a sudden overcast, the picture I see through the lcd/viewfinder doesn't change.
Histogram doesn't change.
So I'm led to believe everything is correctly exposed, unless I review the images on my PC or the camera (which is tiresome as sometimes there is a lot of weather changes and I don't have time to review photos every 1-2 minutes).

What's baffling is that this issue doesn't present itself in A or M modes. If the image is underexposed, it shows straight on the lcd/viewfinder without having to review the photos taken.
You say you are using the lowest possible ISO - ? Sometimes a great idea to get the best quality

And sometimes the images look too dark in your eyes ... why are you not adjusting your images with your PC ? Low ISO images tolerate a lot of post processing and the IQ stays great.

And some software can have "issues" with RAF files. Some years ago I noticed how some software saw RAF files as underexposed and did show them as slightly dark ...

IF you want to get the best results with ANY modern camera you really must understand some PP. OOC pictures are never "final" IMO. Polaroids were like that , almost

Final image is final when you have done the adjustments you want - the interpretation is your job as an artist - or the guy who pushes the button
 
Long story short, I still haven't found a solution to the gigantic issue I posted months ago:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66987437

I use histogram, in fact it's what I have had to rely on since the issue presented itself.
I love my H2s, but the fact that what's presented in viewfinder and final image is not similar is just not acceptable to me anymore.
I get a properly exposed image in histogram, the reviewed photo looks fine, then I unload it on my pc (which is a HDR OLED screen with 700+ nits) and it looks underexposed.

I was hoping for a firmware solution from Fuji but so far nothing, they are ignoring this, while it's baffling that is still not fixed.

I shoot motorsport in Sweden where the events stretch between April and October. Late September will be my last event until April next year and during the off-season, it will take a lot of convincing to make me keep it.

Fuji wake up.
You have a high end stacked sensor camera that is pretty unique (there are zero stacked sensor APS-C out there) and yet you lag in auto focus and software implementation compared to the competition.
I tried to say something clever in a thread that was about these same issues. Not solved ?

Why does this forum exist ? Therapy or anger management or whatever ? ;-) ;-) :-O
 
The camera works fine in A-priority and manual mode.

In S-mode, the exposure in viewfinder/LCD is exposed properly. And even here I'm fine with this because it's ok to be able to see what you're shooting even if the final image is darker.
But the histogram does not reflect an underexposed image.

Test it yourself.
Set the camera to manual mode, set aperture to f2.8 (or f4 or whatever your most open is), then set the shutter speed to whatever to properly expose a photo. Set ISO to 160. Take a photo.
Now set the camera to aperture priority mode. Don't change anything. Take a photo. It's probably a bit darker, which is shown both on histogram and lcd/viewfinder.
Now set it to shutter priority. Check the lcd/viewfinder image. Look at the histogram. I bet you won't find anything underexposed. Now take the photo and let me know what it looks like.

Why is this a problem for me?
I shoot motorsport with very slow shutter speed. My images are incredibly bright because it's mostly sunny where I shoot. But if a cloud covers the sun, the images become very dark without camera relecting this change, in both lcd/viewfinder and histogram. It looks like I'm shooting properly exposed photo.

This is a bug. I won't change my stance on it.
if it is a bug then complain to Fuji. Going on here won't help you as most think another workflow is very well possible in your use case
 
The viewfinder has good detail and is roomy enough. You can either shoot in natural live view, or create a very low contrast, boosted shadow profile and shoot raw if you want easier to see shadows. I just use natural live view and that has worked very well for me.
 
When I set Preview WB/Exp to Off, my XT5 does what your camera does.
That setting is limited to manual mode, OP is asking about A/S priority mode.

I'm curious though - what happens if you manually control both aperture and SS, but set ISO to "A" and limit "Max Sensitivity" to something too low? Does then exposure preview still work in that case?

According to the manual it should. But in that case you can just as well put the camera in a situation where it can't achieve the exposure you want (same as OP's case), yet exposure preview works nevertheless. Or does it not?
In manual plus auto ISO, you have full control over exposure. Shutter speed and f-stop are the camera settings that determine exposure. ISO is used to manage image lightness which can be adjusted in post.
Technically that's correct, but the discussion is about exposure preview rather than exposure itself.
Technically, the discussion isn't about any aspect of exposure. The EVF and LCD views, the histogram and in-camera meter indicate image lightness. It's the settings displays for f-stop and shutter speed that are exposure references.

That said, I think it's fair to say most of us would love the EVF display to accurately reflect image lightness. I personally like that feature of my X-T20.

To the OP's specific situation, if he used manual exposure mode, he'd have total control over exposure. If he selects the widest f-stop delivering an acceptable depth of field and the slowest shutter speed that adequately renders movement, then he'll have optimized exposure even if the photo is darker than he'd like.

Image lightness can be adjusted in post without compromising image quality. Exposure can't.
As you say, ISO is used to manage image "lightness". If the ISO is too low for the desired lightness then the image will come out too dark. My question is whether the exposure preview accurately displays the lightness of the image at the ISO that will be used - assuming Preview Exp./WB in Manual Mode is turned fully on.

One user above claims that this is not the case for manual mode + auto ISO if Max Sensitivity is set too low to match the required ISO for the shot (as set via exposure compensation). Instead the exposure preview apparently shows an image at higher lightness (as if ISO is set higher) than the actual ISO (and therefore lightness) of the resulting image.

In other words, the images come out darker than they appear in the EVF or the LCD screen.
And I agree this can be annoying. If the OP isn't able to configure his preferred exposure mode of shutter priority so that the EVF consistently previews image lightness, I'd recommend he test drive manual exposure mode. That's what I use with my X-T20 and the EVF consistently previews image lightness.
 
This sort of attitude rapidly gets people on ignore lists.
Do us all a favor and put him on a more permanent "ignore" list.
Everyone gets a chance. Ignore the warning, and that would be the logical next step.
Naw, that's too fast. This apparently tough problem of how the histogram doesn't reflect severe underexposure / -brightening of the result image in S mode was the first thing that got me to read up on these threads any regular. Or was that addressed in some post I missed?
 
This sort of attitude rapidly gets people on ignore lists.
Do us all a favor and put him on a more permanent "ignore" list.
Everyone gets a chance. Ignore the warning, and that would be the logical next step.
Naw, that's too fast. This apparently tough problem of how the histogram doesn't reflect severe underexposure / -brightening of the result image in S mode was the first thing that got me to read up on these threads any regular. Or was that addressed in some post I missed?
The topic is relevant and useful, so no issues there. However, that doesn't give anyone a pass in terms of following DPR's posting rules with respect to keeping things civil. No one has been banned, and I'd like to keep it that way as this is a relevant and important topic. All we ask is that the discussion remains civil and impersonal. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

So...... back to the topic at hand.
 
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67210025

Preview Exposure & White Balance Preview:
This is an important setting for me and if you shoot a mix of flash and natural light images, I suggest that you add to the My Menu or create a shortcut button for it. If you are shooting natural light images, you can set the camera up so that the LCD or EVF will show you your expected exposure for the given settings you have set. For many people this is perfect but if you are using flash, your settings will render your preview so dark it might be hard to work out which direction your camera is even pointing. This is when we would turn off the preview exposure setting and have the camera boost the LCD/EVF so that we can frame and compose the images. We can do the very same with the white balance if needed too.

The principle of this setting is explained in this video. It is turned off in your case, which only makes sense, if you want to work with flashes

Do you own the camera? That does not work in S-mode. I have stated that several times now and tired of repeating myself.

I stand by my claim that it's a bug and should be fixed in firmware.
I understand you are too busy saying it is a bug - perhaps it is. I tried to ask this already once.

IF you shoot RAF a slight underexposure is only better - you get the perfect images after fast PP. Problem is really a problem only if you want OOC perfect jpegs

Of course some other camera brand might work better for your photography
 
I've just read a few of your recent posts:

Most interesting are this one:


and the one it links.

First, If I copy my settings from Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority into manual mode I get exactly the same brightness. The fact that you are having problems with changing light as you pan got me attention as this is a normal situation for me. As your exposure dose not change as you pan from dark to bright there is a setting that controls this. There is also a setting that controls if you see the actual brightness of your photo or a bright viewfinder.

What do you have the following settings set for:

1) NATURAL LIVE VIEW

2) SUBJECT DETECTION

3) INTERLOCK SPOT AE & FOCUS AREA

4) PHOTOMETRY

5) BUTTON/DIAL SETTING>SHUTTER AF,SHUTTER AE

Are you using back button AF or the shutter release?

I think I've listed all the settings that might be affecting your results.

I do not believe there is a firmware bug, rather a setting that is preventing the camera from doing what you would like it to do.

Morris
 
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To FujiFilm Australia:

Exposure Preview does not change as you change Exposure Value settings in Aperture, Shutter or Manual mode. So how can you say preview mode changes as the EV changes?

In Aperture or Shutter mode the Exposure Preview only changes when you move the Exposure Compensation setting dial.

From FujiFilm Australia:

I do actually think you raised a very good point about the live exposure preview.

Feedback to our Japan HQ

Normally we would collect feedback over a period of time, collate it and send it to our Japan HQ in a single document. But I’m quite happy to submit this one on its own. This was done today and is copied below.

Customer feedback for the live exposure preview.

Currently on Fujifilm cameras, in modes Shutter Priority and Aperture Priority the exposure preview is based on the exposure compensation level. If the aperture (mode S) or shutter speed (mode A) can not meet the set exposure compensation, the value is displayed in red. The resulting photo may be overexposed or underexposed.

Instead, the customer would like the live exposure preview to reflect the camera settings.

The idea is this will help users to see that the resulting photo will be over/underexposed.
 
To FujiFilm Australia:

Exposure Preview does not change as you change Exposure Value settings in Aperture, Shutter or Manual mode. So how can you say preview mode changes as the EV changes?

In Aperture or Shutter mode the Exposure Preview only changes when you move the Exposure Compensation setting dial.

From FujiFilm Australia:

I do actually think you raised a very good point about the live exposure preview.

Feedback to our Japan HQ

Normally we would collect feedback over a period of time, collate it and send it to our Japan HQ in a single document. But I’m quite happy to submit this one on its own. This was done today and is copied below.

Customer feedback for the live exposure preview.

Currently on Fujifilm cameras, in modes Shutter Priority and Aperture Priority the exposure preview is based on the exposure compensation level. If the aperture (mode S) or shutter speed (mode A) can not meet the set exposure compensation, the value is displayed in red. The resulting photo may be overexposed or underexposed.

Instead, the customer would like the live exposure preview to reflect the camera settings.

The idea is this will help users to see that the resulting photo will be over/underexposed.
Thank you for this.
 
To FujiFilm Australia:

Exposure Preview does not change as you change Exposure Value settings in Aperture, Shutter or Manual mode. So how can you say preview mode changes as the EV changes?

In Aperture or Shutter mode the Exposure Preview only changes when you move the Exposure Compensation setting dial.

From FujiFilm Australia:

I do actually think you raised a very good point about the live exposure preview.

Feedback to our Japan HQ

Normally we would collect feedback over a period of time, collate it and send it to our Japan HQ in a single document. But I’m quite happy to submit this one on its own. This was done today and is copied below.

Customer feedback for the live exposure preview.

Currently on Fujifilm cameras, in modes Shutter Priority and Aperture Priority the exposure preview is based on the exposure compensation level. If the aperture (mode S) or shutter speed (mode A) can not meet the set exposure compensation, the value is displayed in red. The resulting photo may be overexposed or underexposed.

Instead, the customer would like the live exposure preview to reflect the camera settings.

The idea is this will help users to see that the resulting photo will be over/underexposed.
Thank you for this.
Did you do it as well?
 
To FujiFilm Australia:

Exposure Preview does not change as you change Exposure Value settings in Aperture, Shutter or Manual mode. So how can you say preview mode changes as the EV changes?

In Aperture or Shutter mode the Exposure Preview only changes when you move the Exposure Compensation setting dial.

From FujiFilm Australia:

I do actually think you raised a very good point about the live exposure preview.

Feedback to our Japan HQ

Normally we would collect feedback over a period of time, collate it and send it to our Japan HQ in a single document. But I’m quite happy to submit this one on its own. This was done today and is copied below.

Customer feedback for the live exposure preview.

Currently on Fujifilm cameras, in modes Shutter Priority and Aperture Priority the exposure preview is based on the exposure compensation level. If the aperture (mode S) or shutter speed (mode A) can not meet the set exposure compensation, the value is displayed in red. The resulting photo may be overexposed or underexposed.

Instead, the customer would like the live exposure preview to reflect the camera settings.

The idea is this will help users to see that the resulting photo will be over/underexposed.
 
To FujiFilm Australia:

Exposure Preview does not change as you change Exposure Value settings in Aperture, Shutter or Manual mode. So how can you say preview mode changes as the EV changes?

In Aperture or Shutter mode the Exposure Preview only changes when you move the Exposure Compensation setting dial.

From FujiFilm Australia:

I do actually think you raised a very good point about the live exposure preview.

Feedback to our Japan HQ

Normally we would collect feedback over a period of time, collate it and send it to our Japan HQ in a single document. But I’m quite happy to submit this one on its own. This was done today and is copied below.

Customer feedback for the live exposure preview.

Currently on Fujifilm cameras, in modes Shutter Priority and Aperture Priority the exposure preview is based on the exposure compensation level. If the aperture (mode S) or shutter speed (mode A) can not meet the set exposure compensation, the value is displayed in red. The resulting photo may be overexposed or underexposed.

Instead, the customer would like the live exposure preview to reflect the camera settings.

The idea is this will help users to see that the resulting photo will be over/underexposed.
 
To FujiFilm Australia:

Exposure Preview does not change as you change Exposure Value settings in Aperture, Shutter or Manual mode. So how can you say preview mode changes as the EV changes?

In Aperture or Shutter mode the Exposure Preview only changes when you move the Exposure Compensation setting dial.

From FujiFilm Australia:

I do actually think you raised a very good point about the live exposure preview.

Feedback to our Japan HQ

Normally we would collect feedback over a period of time, collate it and send it to our Japan HQ in a single document. But I’m quite happy to submit this one on its own. This was done today and is copied below.

Customer feedback for the live exposure preview.

Currently on Fujifilm cameras, in modes Shutter Priority and Aperture Priority the exposure preview is based on the exposure compensation level. If the aperture (mode S) or shutter speed (mode A) can not meet the set exposure compensation, the value is displayed in red. The resulting photo may be overexposed or underexposed.

Instead, the customer would like the live exposure preview to reflect the camera settings.

The idea is this will help users to see that the resulting photo will be over/underexposed.
 
I use the EVF or LCD to adjust my exposure on my X-H2s. I get what I see though one must be carful in a dark environment as your eyes can be fooled as the EVF will see bright. In the EVF look for clipping of the whites and also the blacks. Avoid both of these unless you want to clip and this is an artistic choice.

I don't use the in camera histogram yet the histogram is open in Photoshop as I process. Be aware that the hump of the histogram could be in the middle the left or the right and still be a correct exposure! The histogram should be used to look for clipping of detail in the whites and dark areas. There is no such thing as a correct histogram. This is a nice article on using the histogram:

https://digital-photography-school.com/how-to-read-and-use-histograms/

Remember, you control the exposure.

Morris
I think Morris said here everything important…

I might add that i see the really final image after i have printed it… When i am looking through the viewfinder i try to compose something and i have speed and DOF in my mind and i also try to see what kind of a photograph i am trying to make. Sometimes i have an idea of the final product. The final image is possibly final after the trip - at home some day.
I have seldom seen anything final… except when I did not capture anything because i was TOO late and the camera was in the bag…
 

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