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Not knowing what the final image will look like is killing me.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nebell
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Coming from a Nikon DSLR before Fuji, I’ve found the experience of taking a photo much easier with the mirrorless and the power it gives us.



I’m honestly scratching my head at the complaints here, the EVF in my X-T2 gives me a great representation of the final shot, and the RAW files I get to edit when I get home are pretty much as I’d expect them to be from what I envisioned when taking the shot.
 
io_bg said:
Nebell said:
Long story short, I still haven't found a solution to the gigantic issue I posted months ago:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66987437

I use histogram, in fact it's what I have had to rely on since the issue presented itself.
I love my H2s, but the fact that what's presented in viewfinder and final image is not similar is just not acceptable to me anymore.
I get a properly exposed image in histogram, the reviewed photo looks fine, then I unload it on my pc (which is a HDR OLED screen with 700+ nits) and it looks underexposed.

I was hoping for a firmware solution from Fuji but so far nothing, they are ignoring this, while it's baffling that is still not fixed.

I shoot motorsport in Sweden where the events stretch between April and October. Late September will be my last event until April next year and during the off-season, it will take a lot of convincing to make me keep it.

Fuji wake up.
You have a high end stacked sensor camera that is pretty unique (there are zero stacked sensor APS-C out there) and yet you lag in auto focus and software implementation compared to the competition.
Click to expand...
I think a few solutions were given in that thread. Haven't seen any other complaints from other forum members about the same issue (on any Fuji camera) so why expect Fuji to fix a problem that only you are experiencing?
Click to expand...

What solution? Use manual mode?
There was no solution given as there is no solution to the problem.
 
Nebell said:
io_bg said:
Nebell said:
Long story short, I still haven't found a solution to the gigantic issue I posted months ago:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66987437

I use histogram, in fact it's what I have had to rely on since the issue presented itself.
I love my H2s, but the fact that what's presented in viewfinder and final image is not similar is just not acceptable to me anymore.
I get a properly exposed image in histogram, the reviewed photo looks fine, then I unload it on my pc (which is a HDR OLED screen with 700+ nits) and it looks underexposed.

I was hoping for a firmware solution from Fuji but so far nothing, they are ignoring this, while it's baffling that is still not fixed.

I shoot motorsport in Sweden where the events stretch between April and October. Late September will be my last event until April next year and during the off-season, it will take a lot of convincing to make me keep it.

Fuji wake up.
You have a high end stacked sensor camera that is pretty unique (there are zero stacked sensor APS-C out there) and yet you lag in auto focus and software implementation compared to the competition.
Click to expand...
I think a few solutions were given in that thread. Haven't seen any other complaints from other forum members about the same issue (on any Fuji camera) so why expect Fuji to fix a problem that only you are experiencing?
Click to expand...
What solution? Use manual mode?
There was no solution given as there is no solution to the problem.
Click to expand...
The solution to the problem is to set the camera up so one of the exposure triangle isn’t restricting the camera from getting the photo properly exposed. Thats what people in that thread were attempting to explain.
 
jaberg said:
Several skilled, experienced photographers responded with correct answers, interpretations, and solutions in your original thread. You choose to ignore them in favor of your belief that this is Fuji’s problem to solve. It is not. Stop beating your head against the wall. Your camera is working as designed and provides you with all the information needed to make exposures of quality. However, the photographer needs to understand and use that information.

If you genuinely believe that another camera system works better for you, and you’re unwilling to learn how to use the tool already in your hand, please return to that system at once…and stop whinging about the (nonexistent) problem with Fuji.

If it makes you feel better to believe that we Fujifilm Photographer fanbois are suffering from a mass delusion… So be it. Whatever helps you sleep. We’ll continue using our tools to make nicely exposed images.
Click to expand...
What solution are you pointing at? We must be reading different threads.
 
For the sake of the discussion, let's turn the subject over.

What I need when I am shooting is not an EVF image of how the image will look like. On the contrary, I want the image to be bright and clear, so that I can easily check my composition, see if the camera focuses where I want, detect any disturbances in the background, etc

Especially when working in low light or when I'm deliberately underexposing my shots, I don't want the viewfinder to be dark.

Every now and then I review a couple of my photos to ensure I did not mess up something.

Back home I work on my images, because on my monitor I can much better see what adjustments and profiles work best.
 
Krummj said:
Compared to the resulting image on the LCD. The viewfinder preview is much more contrasty and hard to see detail on the XH1. It's not very useful to me, so I switched to Natural Live View. That actually works fine, and still is accurate for highlights and exposure.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Sounds like the LCD and EVF panels are not consistent with each other at the hardware level. The EVF one is obviously much denser so I'm not surprised there's a difference, I just didn't expect it could be that much of a problem. I've heard good things about X-T3 EVF, but from specs alone and same release year it appears to be the same as X-H1.
 
Nebell said:
What solution are you pointing at? We must be reading different threads.
Click to expand...
We’re reading the same thread. The solutions provided require some flexibility on your part. Using the camera as designed to achieve your end goal. The problem seems to be that the only solution you deem acceptable is for the Fuji to work identically to another camera. An operation that seems flawed to many of those responding, and to some of us following along as well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Best of luck in your quest for a favorable outcome from Fuji. I can hear the chorus of we shall consider from here.

For the uninitiated, We shall consider is the polite translation of the Japanese phrase for Fat chance Bucky.
 
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Nebell said:
What solution are you pointing at? We must be reading different threads.
Click to expand...
I sympathize with your complaints and I don't think there would be anything wrong with Fujifilm providing more options for different users. Personally I'd also like to see an option for full-time exposure preview, while defaults stay the way they are now.

But here's what I'd do in your case (shutter speed priority):
  1. Set aperture to "A".
  2. Set ISO to "A".
  3. Set "Max Sensitivity" to maximum ISO possible.
Now do some tests and observe if the camera prioritizes widest aperture over bumping up ISO. In other words, test if the camera bumps ISO up only when aperture can't go any wider. Also test if negative exposure compensation prioritizes setting ISO lower instead of closing down the aperture. Hopefully that is the case. That way you'll suffer minimal noise necessary when there's not enough light and you'll also get the shot properly exposed.
 
Nebell said:
jaberg said:
Several skilled, experienced photographers responded with correct answers, interpretations, and solutions in your original thread. You choose to ignore them in favor of your belief that this is Fuji’s problem to solve. It is not. Stop beating your head against the wall. Your camera is working as designed and provides you with all the information needed to make exposures of quality. However, the photographer needs to understand and use that information.

If you genuinely believe that another camera system works better for you, and you’re unwilling to learn how to use the tool already in your hand, please return to that system at once…and stop whinging about the (nonexistent) problem with Fuji.

If it makes you feel better to believe that we Fujifilm Photographer fanbois are suffering from a mass delusion… So be it. Whatever helps you sleep. We’ll continue using our tools to make nicely exposed images.
Click to expand...
What solution are you pointing at? We must be reading different threads.
Click to expand...
As far as I understand, you have 2 threads on the same topic. Makes it hard for all, apparently for you as well, to follow and to get to a resolution, for you in particular. Maybe the mods can merge the 2 threads rather than having them run in parallel.

I anyway am not sure what your problem is. Sorry, I have possibly skipped some important post of yours. You know that you can set brightness of the EVF and the display independently of each other? Do you use the RGB histogram to set max exposure without clipping highlights? No need to answer me, but if unclear what I mean, maybe it's time to read up before complaing about Fujifilm. Sorry for maybe being too direct.
 
sir_c said:
For the sake of the discussion, let's turn the subject over.

What I need when I am shooting is not an EVF image of how the image will look like. On the contrary, I want the image to be bright and clear, so that I can easily check my composition, see if the camera focuses where I want, detect any disturbances in the background, etc

Especially when working in low light or when I'm deliberately underexposing my shots, I don't want the viewfinder to be dark.

Every now and then I review a couple of my photos to ensure I did not mess up something.

Back home I work on my images, because on my monitor I can much better see what adjustments and profiles work best.
Click to expand...
By far, my biggest compliant about my Sony cameras are the Horrible EVF/LCD that Sony gives so many of their cameras outside of the R series. I want the image to look as being Shot. The compositions, which by the way are so subjective are usually the least of my Problems.

There is literally nothing Worse then having a Bad EVF/LCD combination. Whether or not that pertains to the OP issues, well I have no idea actually. But if the conditions are so harsh that I can't tell how to make a given composition, it's likely not worth taking those shots to begin with.

I routinely dramatically underexposed many of my shots. Intentionally. So I want to see it as is. Others might have other needs or case usages. Which I respect.

Some cameras allow one to tinker around that. I mostly just want to know what I am about to shoot, how it will actually look, not the opposite.
 
Last edited:
DarnGoodPhotos said:
When I set Preview WB/Exp to Off, my XT5 does what your camera does.
Click to expand...
That setting is limited to manual mode, OP is asking about A/S priority mode.

I'm curious though - what happens if you manually control both aperture and SS, but set ISO to "A" and limit "Max Sensitivity" to something too low? Does then exposure preview still work in that case?

According to the manual it should. But in that case you can just as well put the camera in a situation where it can't achieve the exposure you want (same as OP's case), yet exposure preview works nevertheless. Or does it not?
 
Nebell said:
Long story short, I still haven't found a solution to the gigantic issue I posted months ago:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66987437

I use histogram, in fact it's what I have had to rely on since the issue presented itself.
I love my H2s, but the fact that what's presented in viewfinder and final image is not similar is just not acceptable to me anymore.
I get a properly exposed image in histogram, the reviewed photo looks fine, then I unload it on my pc (which is a HDR OLED screen with 700+ nits) and it looks underexposed.
Click to expand...
If you set up the camera with very limited (impossible) operating parameters, you really shouldn’t be surprised when it doesn’t deliver the desired exposure. No, you may not always see an accurate exposure preview in Manual mode + Auto ISO if you don’t give the camera a realistic operating parameters to work with. The fix: don’t do that.
Member said:
I was hoping for a firmware solution from Fuji but so far nothing, they are ignoring this, while it's baffling that is still not fixed.
Click to expand...
As others seem to be managing just fine with their Fujis, you might want to consider what others are suggesting about how to go about shooting. Don’t expect Fuji to change the camera just for you, it’s not gonna happen.
Member said:
.I shoot motorsport in Sweden where the events stretch between April and October. Late September will be my last event until April next year and during the off-season, it will take a lot of convincing to make me keep it.
Click to expand...
Well, hopefully you’ll figure out a way to use it by then.
Member said:
Fuji wake up.
You have a high end stacked sensor camera that is pretty unique (there are zero stacked sensor APS-C out there) and yet you lag in auto focus and software implementation compared to the competition.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should just accept how your camera operates and devise an exposure methodology that will work for you - there should be several besides manual + Auto-ISO (which clearly isn’t working with the operating limits you are placing on it).
 
Erik Baumgartner said:
If you set up the camera with very limited (impossible) operating parameters, you really shouldn’t be surprised when it doesn’t deliver the desired exposure.
Click to expand...
Seems like OP isn't complaining about the result, but rather about the preview.
Erik Baumgartner said:
No, you may not always see an accurate exposure preview in Manual mode + Auto ISO if you don’t give the camera a realistic operating parameters to work with. The fix: don’t do that.
Click to expand...
I fully agree you shouldn't do that since these are basic principles of photography regardless of how exposure preview works or what camera you use.

However I'm not entirely sure I follow your argument here about why inaccurate exposure preview is unavoidable on Fujifilm cameras. If you don't give your camera realistic operating parameters, then why is the exposure preview forced into pretending that you did?

The camera still allows you to take a shot with too limited operating parameters after all, so I don't understand why it couldn't (optionally!) act the same way when it comes to the preview as well. Is there a technical reason for this, a technical limitation, that I'm unaware of?

To be clear, I definitely see how the current behavior is very useful in some situations and I'm glad Fujifilm is providing this feature. But as far as I understand the camera could just as well have a (non-default!) option to display the exposure it will actually produce when the shot is taken - and also display a warning that the operating parameters are too limited just as it already does now.
Erik Baumgartner said:
As others seem to be managing just fine with their Fujis, you might want to consider what others are suggesting about how to go about shooting. Don’t expect Fuji to change the camera just for you, it’s not gonna happen.
Click to expand...
I agree Fujifilm should definitely keep the defaults as they are and not change them for anyone. But that does not prevent them from adding non-default options to extend the functionality of their cameras to attract (and keep) users like OP. They added so many useful options throughout the years and I can't understand why we'd be against that. More people buying their cameras means more capital that they can invest into further research and development. It's beneficial for both Fujifilm and all of their users. Or am I missing something here?
 
My interpretation of the OP's complaint is the exposure preview is a lot brighter/lighter than the exposure itself.

I believe this rules out the obvious under exposure as the cause.

Is it possible the Aperture diaphragm is not closing down during preview?
 
Last edited:
phohod said:
DarnGoodPhotos said:
When I set Preview WB/Exp to Off, my XT5 does what your camera does.
Click to expand...
That setting is limited to manual mode, OP is asking about A/S priority mode.

I'm curious though - what happens if you manually control both aperture and SS, but set ISO to "A" and limit "Max Sensitivity" to something too low? Does then exposure preview still work in that case?

According to the manual it should. But in that case you can just as well put the camera in a situation where it can't achieve the exposure you want (same as OP's case), yet exposure preview works nevertheless. Or does it not?
Click to expand...
In manual plus auto ISO, you have full control over exposure. Shutter speed and f-stop are the camera settings that determine exposure. ISO is used to manage image lightness which can be adjusted in post.
 
Gigantic? I've never expected the image in my VF or LCD to exactly match what is on my computer screen. I didn't realize that was even a thing people expected. Seems like more of a rough guide to me. If I have my screen calibrated and the brightness turned down for printing why would it look the same on a bright lcd as my computer. What am I missing?

--
https://www.johngellings.com
Instagram = @johngellings0
 
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https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67210025

Preview Exposure & White Balance Preview:
This is an important setting for me and if you shoot a mix of flash and natural light images, I suggest that you add to the My Menu or create a shortcut button for it. If you are shooting natural light images, you can set the camera up so that the LCD or EVF will show you your expected exposure for the given settings you have set. For many people this is perfect but if you are using flash, your settings will render your preview so dark it might be hard to work out which direction your camera is even pointing. This is when we would turn off the preview exposure setting and have the camera boost the LCD/EVF so that we can frame and compose the images. We can do the very same with the white balance if needed too.

The principle of this setting is explained in this video. It is turned off in your case, which only makes sense, if you want to work with flashes

 
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