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shooting Olympus 75-300 w/o IBIS

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alcelc said:
Replace it with P100-300 which should offer you dolide 3 stops effective stablization plus a stabilized evf all the time.

It is the best fit for non iBIS Panny bodies.

Despite I have GX85 (around 2 stops effective IBIS) and G85 (around 3 stops effective IBIS), I would still prefer a Panny lens on them because of the 5 stops effective DUSL IS.

Yes, we can live without any in camera stablization, e.g. fast enough shutter speed, good handholding skill or tripod/monopod/any means of support. But as there is a choice why we have to go for the harder solution?
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Technique and proper settings can help to solve the stabilisation problem. Nothing can make the 100-300 deliver the image quality of the 75-300 at the long end, though.

so it’s a harder solution with better results. Your choice

tom
 
No, but it can make our life easier.

Recently had watched not few UTube videos on outdoor survival. Some prefer the basic: collect fire wood and start fire by friction. Some use a lighter. I suppose modern tool can make our life easier.

I started MILC journey with G1, which is non IBIS. Before that, my first camera was a full manual SLR using MF, manual metering and tripod was my best stabilizer. Basically I could capture usable images out from these tools.

I started to know IBIS on GX7, which is merely 0.5 stop only, then GX85 which is a little better. After experienced the IBIS, more strictly speaking DUAL IS, I would avoid buying non IBIS bodies.

YMMV.
 
alcelc said:
No, but it can make our life easier.

Recently had watched not few UTube videos on outdoor survival. Some prefer the basic: collect fire wood and start fire by friction. Some use a lighter. I suppose modern tool can make our life easier.

I started MILC journey with G1, which is non IBIS. Before that, my first camera was a full manual SLR using MF, manual metering and tripod was my best stabilizer. Basically I could capture usable images out from these tools.

I started to know IBIS on GX7, which is merely 0.5 stop only, then GX85 which is a little better. After experienced the IBIS, more strictly speaking DUAL IS, I would avoid buying non IBIS bodies.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
Look, Alec, you may not feel any shame about relying on crutches like IBIS (which are, whether you like it or not, mere excuses for being a poor photographer). But many inferior photographers like me unfortunately do. How I dearly wish I could shoot an exposure like this 0.4s handheld long exposure without IBIS. Then I could sing from the mountaintops what a great photographer I am. But, alas, it's simply not to be.


GX85, 0.4 s, 17mm unstabilized Oly f1.8
 
Real artists paint their photos, everything that catches light and gets printed in a machine is just a crutch.

mmartel said:
alcelc said:
No, but it can make our life easier.

Recently had watched not few UTube videos on outdoor survival. Some prefer the basic: collect fire wood and start fire by friction. Some use a lighter. I suppose modern tool can make our life easier.

I started MILC journey with G1, which is non IBIS. Before that, my first camera was a full manual SLR using MF, manual metering and tripod was my best stabilizer. Basically I could capture usable images out from these tools.

I started to know IBIS on GX7, which is merely 0.5 stop only, then GX85 which is a little better. After experienced the IBIS, more strictly speaking DUAL IS, I would avoid buying non IBIS bodies.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
Look, Alec, you may not feel any shame about relying on crutches like IBIS (which are, whether you like it or not, mere excuses for being a poor photographer). But many inferior photographers like me unfortunately do. How I dearly wish I could shoot an exposure like this 0.4s handheld long exposure without IBIS. Then I could sing from the mountaintops what a great photographer I am. But, alas, it's simply not to be.


GX85, 0.4 s, 17mm unstabilized Oly f1.8
Click to expand...


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At 300 mm , on a camera with the 4/3 sensor you have the same field view as a 600 mm lens on a FF sensor. It would take more than a fair amount of skill and technique to shoot at 600 mm handheld without image stabilization. Even with it , it still takes practice to get the most from it.



Back in the prehistoric film days I don’t recall seeing photographers using 600 mm lenses without a tripod, for birds they would have gimbal mounted on the tripod.

Image stabilization makes it easier to get good results, using it doesn’t make you less competent. Purists would tell you “real” drivers have manual transmissions, but when you’re stuck on the capital beltway at rush hour an automatic is quite nice….whatever tool works ….
 
Rmark said:
At 300 mm , on a camera with the 4/3 sensor you have the same field view as a 600 mm lens on a FF sensor. It would take more than a fair amount of skill and technique to shoot at 600 mm handheld without image stabilization. Even with it , it still takes practice to get the most from it.

Back in the prehistoric film days I don’t recall seeing photographers using 600 mm lenses without a tripod, for birds they would have gimbal mounted on the tripod.
Click to expand...
You were shooting with amateurs obviously. Gods-amongst-men elites shoot with 800 mm and beyond unstabilized and don't make excuses. That's the standard you need to aim for.
Rmark said:
Image stabilization makes it easier to get good results, using it doesn’t make you less competent.
Click to expand...
I won't sugarcoat things: You're just wrong. The harder the grind, the bigger the flex. And everyone knows the point of photography is enjoying the hobby dunking on people with inferior skills (and equipment, but I digress).
Rmark said:
Purists would tell you “real” drivers have manual transmissions, but when you’re stuck on the capital beltway at rush hour an automatic is quite nice….whatever tool works ….
Click to expand...
You're just proving my point. MT purists aren't merely purists. They simply are better drivers than you are. They even handle crave the MT grind in bumper to bumper traffic. They get to use their clutch and gear stick more often, proving their superiority with every smooth start and shimmy of the lever from left to right in neutral as they deccelerate.

Listen, if the OP wants to hamstring his daughter's photographic journey before she even gets started with an IBIS equipped camera, that's his choice. He should just do so with eyes wide open. I say, don't do it. A lifetime of shame awaits.
 
Thanks so much for your response.

I was very happy that my kid picked up the EPL6 I had forgotten in a cupboard and started taking pictures with it. I hope she keeps enjoying this hobby.
 
you are absolutely right. I just realized how frustrating it could be using the 75-300mm with out IBIS.
 
Shame?

Not at all. I won't shame because I would perfer using a lighter to start a fire instead of using wood friction.

You can shoot with 0.4" handheld on GX85 & 17, assuming you have IBIS off because GX85 will activate IBIS on non stabilized lens automatically, is good. But why would you proud of it? Because you have steadier hands than others?

If you have IBIS on which can permit you do 2~3 stops slower shutter speed, would it be even better?

PS, OP is talking about 600 eq AoV lens on G100, it should be a huge differentbvsca 17 on IBIS of GX85.
 
mmartel said:
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger here:

"The lack of IBIS does not make a camera a bad camera. That is just an excuse for poor photography skills."
Click to expand...
Exactly. I started out with a tripod, and instead of people comparing stabilization specs, they asked what model Gitzo (tripod) you used. Even with a tripod, one needed to master long lens technique to get good results. Now most just point and shoot and expect sharp results, and if not, blame the gear. I still practice good technique and never hold my camera away and use LCD, I press my face against viewfinder, and if shooting long, I roll my finger over shutter between breaths.
 
Thanks for the clever response!.

I drove with a manual transmission for decades and decided I no longer wanted to be a superior driver after routinely spending 40 minutes driving 7 miles, I much prefer being the wimp driver with normal blood pressure.

Image stabilization has been around long enough that it's no longer a novel technology, and there are a lot of affordable cameras with it.
 
Albert Valentino said:
mmartel said:
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger here:

"The lack of IBIS does not make a camera a bad camera. That is just an excuse for poor photography skills."
Click to expand...
Exactly. I started out with a tripod, and instead of people comparing stabilization specs, they asked what model Gitzo (tripod) you used. Even with a tripod, one needed to master long lens technique to get good results. Now most just point and shoot and expect sharp results, and if not, blame the gear. I still practice good technique and never hold my camera away and use LCD, I press my face against viewfinder, and if shooting long, I roll my finger over shutter between breaths.
Click to expand...
 
mmartel said:
Albert Valentino said:
mmartel said:
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger here:

"The lack of IBIS does not make a camera a bad camera. That is just an excuse for poor photography skills."
Click to expand...
Exactly. I started out with a tripod, and instead of people comparing stabilization specs, they asked what model Gitzo (tripod) you used. Even with a tripod, one needed to master long lens technique to get good results. Now most just point and shoot and expect sharp results, and if not, blame the gear. I still practice good technique and never hold my camera away and use LCD, I press my face against viewfinder, and if shooting long, I roll my finger over shutter between breaths.
Click to expand...
No, a tripod is as big a crutch as IBIS. Actually even bigger crutch. It's just a massive excuse for inferior handheld photography skills. I'd be even more ashamed to use one compared to IBIS. At least with IBIS I can pretend I've got it switched off and most people won't be onto me. With a tripod, everyone will immediately know how inferior my handheld technique is. Truly shameful.
Click to expand...
You guys are killing it!

I say, Speed Graphics for everybody.

Dad
 
For a kid... Seems for a young one (at least about).

So, let's hope there still is more learning potential than we older ones have - but maybe less judgment and patience.

That combo (G100+ 75-300mm) is very lightweight and and the 300mm is a super tele in old terms - in the gone millenium I would have never dreamed to use a lens like that without a tripod. But that time has gone - now we have the high isos, lenses like this one and all kinds of aids, including IS on most cameras. But - the old tech is still very useful.

That combo will tech the kid to use a good shooting technique. The lens is better than it's reputation, mostly because people don't know how to use it. It's light and long and usually the first super long tele they use - perfect way to get bad shots first. Here are some hints:

1. Use electronic shutter (silent mode or whatever that is called in pana world). No shutter kick, wont affect the animals etc. Downside - maybe some bending lines if using some follow the animal- tech (panning).

2. Use serial modes with short bursts. Usually the second or third frame is the best. Delete the bad ones at home (saves the battery). Memory is cheap and can be cleaned and used again and again...

3. Shoot more. And ones again.

4. Use fast shutter speeds -> rise the ISO as needed. These new programs (Topaz Photo Ai and DeNoise Ai, DXO etc) do some miracles to noise...

5. That leads -> RAW is always better than jpg SOOC. More possibilities to correct exposure and colors. But if she/he is very young, the jpg may be better option - or RAW + jpg.

6. Use hood. It protects the lens from rain, dust, hits and scratshes - and unwanted sunrays on the frontlens. Better contrast.

7. Add some weight ... Tripod, monopod, chestpod... Something to support the combo. Small table tripod used as a chestpod can be the lightest way and most useful. A light monopod (a hiking stick with a small ballhead will do fine) will add some more stabilization. And a tripod, well, no limits for shutter speeds, if the subject is still.

8. No IS - OIS - whatever will never stop the animals. So fast(ish) shutter speeds are a must when photographing the animals. Or maybe not... (I have used 1/4sec for flying swans with interesting results, but maybe not the basic shots: tripod is about must).

9. Good tech for photography (always):

- Hold the camera with right hand , index finger on the shutter button.

- Left hand under the lens, so the weight of the lens is in the hand. This way you can also zoom easily and never loose the hold of the combo. So, use both hands to use that combo ( and most other camera-lens combos too)

- Elbows close to the body, weight on both legs. Feet not too close to each other (V-mode). Panning by turning the "torso" from hips.

- Breathing ... Sometimes holding the breath is good, sometimes breathing in / out slowly. Depends how long shutter speeds you are using, and for how long...

- Any support under camera, elbows and / or behind back is good: trees, rocks, table, trash cans.

- Within some time and tries she / he finds out the limits for shutter speeds etc. Needs some learning

The real problem with that lens is the slowish AF for a super tele. So it's not the best lens for fast moving animals like flying birds. You can use it for those, but you'll get more out of focus images than with some other lenses. The lens is also at it's best set to F8, so stopping down a bit is a good thing, if there is enough light. The 75-300 is not the best lens in Oly lineup (IQ wise), but it's not trash either.

And the bright side: When your kid learns how to get good results from that combo, she/he can use any other camera-lens combo too.

Once I had that lens (mk1) and it was a great long tele for travels. Sold it for the 40-150mm F2.8 + CT's , but I have been thinking about buying one for the light setup.

Have a nice day!

Jouko
'The best camera in the world is the one you have with you when you need it'

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mmartel said:
Albert Valentino said:
mmartel said:
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger here:

"The lack of IBIS does not make a camera a bad camera. That is just an excuse for poor photography skills."
Click to expand...
Exactly. I started out with a tripod, and instead of people comparing stabilization specs, they asked what model Gitzo (tripod) you used. Even with a tripod, one needed to master long lens technique to get good results. Now most just point and shoot and expect sharp results, and if not, blame the gear. I still practice good technique and never hold my camera away and use LCD, I press my face against viewfinder, and if shooting long, I roll my finger over shutter between breaths.
Click to expand...
No, a tripod is as big a crutch as IBIS. Actually even bigger crutch. It's just a massive excuse for inferior handheld photography skills. I'd be even more ashamed to use one compared to IBIS. At least with IBIS I can pretend I've got it switched off and most people won't be onto me. With a tripod, everyone will immediately know how inferior my handheld technique is. Truly shameful.
Click to expand...
My best retort is this, the proof is in the pictures. Did I get consistently sharp, well composed, captures that made others envious? You betcha ;-)

--
Truth never fears scrutiny.
 
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Did I just get a bad copy? I am not picky about lenses, normally. But this copy of the 45-150 is awful. I looked at some old photos from my Olympus 40-150 kit lens. They were not this bad ...



Shot these on a tripod. the pictures are so hazy and blurry.





a20965f078f94d1b91dfa8d7abe8381b.jpg.png
 
mmartel said:
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger here:

"The lack of IBIS does not make a camera a bad camera. That is just an excuse for poor photography skills."

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67183251

I think everyone's takeaway is that we should really all avoid cameras with IBIS at all costs lest we find ourselves in the position of having to make excuses for our poor skills once we use cameras without IBIS and find that we can't get the images we could with IBIS. The shame really is overwhelming.

Sincerely,

A totally ashamed IBIS apologist
Click to expand...
The same could be said for all photographic innovations like roll film vs plates, zoom lenses vs primes, film over ASA 100 (ISO 100), electronic flash vs gunpowder, ... :-)
 
mmartel said:
Albert Valentino said:
mmartel said:
Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger here:

"The lack of IBIS does not make a camera a bad camera. That is just an excuse for poor photography skills."
Click to expand...
Exactly. I started out with a tripod, and instead of people comparing stabilization specs, they asked what model Gitzo (tripod) you used. Even with a tripod, one needed to master long lens technique to get good results. Now most just point and shoot and expect sharp results, and if not, blame the gear. I still practice good technique and never hold my camera away and use LCD, I press my face against viewfinder, and if shooting long, I roll my finger over shutter between breaths.
Click to expand...
No, a tripod is as big a crutch as IBIS. Actually even bigger crutch. It's just a massive excuse for inferior handheld photography skills. I'd be even more ashamed to use one compared to IBIS. At least with IBIS I can pretend I've got it switched off and most people won't be onto me. With a tripod, everyone will immediately know how inferior my handheld technique is. Truly shameful.
Click to expand...
A year ago (9/9/2022) I was on my first photo trip, to an air show, after a mild stroke that left me temporarily wobbly, and I used a monopod as a crutch - literally.
 
jor23 said:
Did I just get a bad copy? I am not picky about lenses, normally. But this copy of the 45-150 is awful. I looked at some old photos from my Olympus 40-150 kit lens. They were not this bad ...

Shot these on a tripod. the pictures are so hazy and blurry.

a20965f078f94d1b91dfa8d7abe8381b.jpg.png
Click to expand...
The left one used f/8 is of course darker than the one used f/5.6 on the right while all other remaining parameters the same.

Judging from the exposure, I guess the f/5.6 should have been over exposed so a hazy feeling.

FYI, my copy of 45-150 is sharpest around 0.5 stopping down, but is already very good on wide open. I rarely use f/8 of this lens unless I need the DoF required. This lens is very different from the 45-200 and 100-300 which are best at f/7.1~8.

Keep it wide open has never disappointed me.

As per DXO lab test, among the P45-150, P45-175PZ and O40-150, 45-150 should be the winner.

No knowing G100, but if you would open wider @f/5.6, you might use lower ISO for a cleaner output that might make it sharper too.

Finally, I expect some sharper image (SOOC JPG without any sharpening in pp) from this lens than the left image. Since this is not a shutter shock affected lens, if you had nailed the focus of these samples, I might do further testing (please do it at good light condition, use SOOC JPG too to eliminate any non lens related uncertainty) to rule out a bad copy.

For such a low cost lens (I bought mine new from gray market for little as US$130 a few years ago), sample variation might happen.

A few from my 45-150 (on GX7 which has AA filter and G85 which has non AA filter so sharper output) FYI:



6a49e736986f4883a42936f7b6a6a531.jpg



8b0b80fdb3ea460d9516aec4d6452049.jpg



e7173d342dcb4a099ac07809b5a7b447.jpg



d9fc55db847148d19bc16d1e8703d9ac.jpg



--
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** Please forgive my typo error.
** Please feel free to download my image and edit it as you like :-) **
 
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