End of the Camera Wars

Now that I've had my Z9 for a bit, and also shot with other Canon and Sony top level stuff, I can see where things have landed.

The Z9/Z8 are, in my view, two of the best cameras at any price. I prefer the Z9 to top offerings from Canon and Sony for a variety of reasons that matter to "me."

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic. And you can make a case for owning ANY of th top systems without looking back. I could switch systems tomorrow and give up nothing, beyond my time with a new learning curve.

The camera wars are endless, but the hair splitting is rather absurd at this point. Whatever your needs, there are AMAZING options from every camera company. You really can't go wrong.

Perhaps the only issue is the cost of a fully rounded out package. You can spend 20K very quickly on a top body and a selection of quality lenses.

Beyond that little issue....I hereby declare that the "Camera wars are over!" ;-)

Robert

The wars will never end. People enjoy drama too much. If there is no drama, someone will create some. This is the way.

MrHollywood said:

Now that I've had my Z9 for a bit, and also shot with other Canon and Sony top level stuff, I can see where things have landed.

The Z9/Z8 are, in my view, two of the best cameras at any price. I prefer the Z9 to top offerings from Canon and Sony for a variety of reasons that matter to "me."

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic. And you can make a case for owning ANY of th top systems without looking back. I could switch systems tomorrow and give up nothing, beyond my time with a new learning curve.

The camera wars are endless, but the hair splitting is rather absurd at this point. Whatever your needs, there are AMAZING options from every camera company. You really can't go wrong.

Perhaps the only issue is the cost of a fully rounded out package. You can spend 20K very quickly on a top body and a selection of quality lenses.

Beyond that little issue....I hereby declare that the "Camera wars are over!" ;-)

Robert

Click to expand...

Yes I think thats a very good point, perhaps if your at the bleeding edge of performance in any one area there maybe significant differences but really I think for 95% of users there is not very much between Nikon, Canon and Sony now.

I would argue these days probably the main thing to consider would be lens selection each brand offers.

For over 30 years of shooting, my cameras have never been the limiting factor.

I get it that some people are into the technology and therefore gear is of utmost importance. When my highly used and beat up D850 and D500 fail, it’s time for mirrorless.

MoreorLess said:

MrHollywood said:

Now that I've had my Z9 for a bit, and also shot with other Canon and Sony top level stuff, I can see where things have landed.

The Z9/Z8 are, in my view, two of the best cameras at any price. I prefer the Z9 to top offerings from Canon and Sony for a variety of reasons that matter to "me."

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic. And you can make a case for owning ANY of th top systems without looking back. I could switch systems tomorrow and give up nothing, beyond my time with a new learning curve.

The camera wars are endless, but the hair splitting is rather absurd at this point. Whatever your needs, there are AMAZING options from every camera company. You really can't go wrong.

Perhaps the only issue is the cost of a fully rounded out package. You can spend 20K very quickly on a top body and a selection of quality lenses.

Beyond that little issue....I hereby declare that the "Camera wars are over!" ;-)

Robert

Click to expand...

Yes I think thats a very good point, perhaps if your at the bleeding edge of performance in any one area there maybe significant differences but really I think for 95% of users there is not very much between Nikon, Canon and Sony now.

I would argue these days probably the main thing to consider would be lens selection each brand offers.

Click to expand...

95% of the users don't even use 30% of what almost any camera available is capable of.

We've been arguing about ford vs chevy for over a century, and 99% of drivers use them to get from a to b. Don't think there's an end in sight.

After all, this is a nikon forum and people can't even stop arguing about the brand they own.

MrHollywood said:

Now that I've had my Z9 for a bit, and also shot with other Canon and Sony top level stuff, I can see where things have landed.

The Z9/Z8 are, in my view, two of the best cameras at any price. I prefer the Z9 to top offerings from Canon and Sony for a variety of reasons that matter to "me."

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic. And you can make a case for owning ANY of th top systems without looking back. I could switch systems tomorrow and give up nothing, beyond my time with a new learning curve.

Click to expand...

I have been using Nikon for 40+ years and the only non-Nikon camera I bought during that period was a Contax 645 medium-format camera. However, I have every reason to believe that Canon will introduced an R1 before the 2024 Paris Olympics. The next crop of cameras will further raise the bar.

MrHollywood said:

The camera wars are endless, but the hair splitting is rather absurd at this point. Whatever your needs, there are AMAZING options from every camera company. You really can't go wrong.

Perhaps the only issue is the cost of a fully rounded out package. You can spend 20K very quickly on a top body and a selection of quality lenses.

Beyond that little issue....I hereby declare that the "Camera wars are over!" ;-)

Click to expand...

For still photography, my D5, D500, and D850 were fine. Even back in 2008/2009, my D300 was already better than anything I had used prior to that point. But 20 fps and 120 fps JPEG can make a big difference is certain situations. However, the biggest difference Nikon Z makes are on the video side. Since getting the Z6 in 2018, I shoot a lot more video nowadays.

I don't think the bar will stand still.

Jerry_P_M said:

MoreorLess said:

MrHollywood said:

Now that I've had my Z9 for a bit, and also shot with other Canon and Sony top level stuff, I can see where things have landed.

The Z9/Z8 are, in my view, two of the best cameras at any price. I prefer the Z9 to top offerings from Canon and Sony for a variety of reasons that matter to "me."

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic. And you can make a case for owning ANY of th top systems without looking back. I could switch systems tomorrow and give up nothing, beyond my time with a new learning curve.

The camera wars are endless, but the hair splitting is rather absurd at this point. Whatever your needs, there are AMAZING options from every camera company. You really can't go wrong.

Perhaps the only issue is the cost of a fully rounded out package. You can spend 20K very quickly on a top body and a selection of quality lenses.

Beyond that little issue....I hereby declare that the "Camera wars are over!" ;-)

Robert

Click to expand...

Yes I think thats a very good point, perhaps if your at the bleeding edge of performance in any one area there maybe significant differences but really I think for 95% of users there is not very much between Nikon, Canon and Sony now.

I would argue these days probably the main thing to consider would be lens selection each brand offers.

Click to expand...

95% of the users don't even use 30% of what almost any camera available is capable of.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. I don't do video and never use autofocus subject selection.

There was a camera war? i must have missed that.

All I know is JPG is still way better than RAW, and I don't care what anyone says.

:-D

Derek 1906 said:

We've been arguing about ford vs chevy for over a century, and 99% of drivers use them to get from a to b. Don't think there's an end in sight.

After all, this is a nikon forum and people can't even stop arguing about the brand they own.

Click to expand...

Of course.

I'm just saying that we're at a level now where everything is just amazingly great, both in bodies and in lenses.

Across the board you really can't go wrong and even mid level stuff is better than top tier tech from just a few years ago.

I prefer my Nikon stuff, but I have nothing bad to say about Canon or Sony that is meaningful or practical. It's all amazing gear.

Robert

MrHollywood said:

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic.

Click to expand...

But that’s the big issue that contradicts what you say below. Nikon has not yet brought their lower end up and with no known date to do so.

MrHollywood said:

I'm just saying that we're at a level now where everything is just amazingly great, both in bodies and in lenses.

Across the board you really can't go wrong and even mid level stuff is better than top tier tech from just a few years ago.

Click to expand...

No Nikon is definitely NOT “at a level now where everything is just amazingly great” because they’re not at an elite level across the board.

Nikon publicly announced in April ’22 that they intend to deploy advanced features from the Z9 across the lineup, or board as you say, by 2025.

Perhaps then (assuming Sony/Canon doesn’t make any more significant advances) Nikon may usher in the end of the camera wars.

MrHollywood said:

Now that I've had my Z9 for a bit, and also shot with other Canon and Sony top level stuff, I can see where things have landed.

The Z9/Z8 are, in my view, two of the best cameras at any price. I prefer the Z9 to top offerings from Canon and Sony for a variety of reasons that matter to "me."

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic. And you can make a case for owning ANY of th top systems without looking back. I could switch systems tomorrow and give up nothing, beyond my time with a new learning curve.

The camera wars are endless, but the hair splitting is rather absurd at this point. Whatever your needs, there are AMAZING options from every camera company. You really can't go wrong.

Perhaps the only issue is the cost of a fully rounded out package. You can spend 20K very quickly on a top body and a selection of quality lenses.

Beyond that little issue....I hereby declare that the "Camera wars are over!" ;-)

Robert

Click to expand...

if someone had a Canon, Sony or Nikon top level camera and couldn't pretty much nail everything that might come along, be it animals, people, landscapes or events, it is now officially the user that is at fault. NOT the camera. I owned the top Canon and Sony cameras and lenses over the last 4 years. They were great. But now I also have the Z9 and feel I have absolutely NO limitations on whatever I need or want to be shooting. Whether I'm getting paid or it's for fun, it ALL comes out perfectly. I can't ask more than that. I don't care what Sony or Canon come out with at this point. Any improvements are beyond splitting hairs for what I'll ever shoot which is already making the grade.

I thought cameras were mostly perfected with the FM2n back in 1984.

capanikon said:

I thought cameras were mostly perfected with the FM2n back in 1984.

Click to expand...

Sorry, no.

It was perfected with Mind of Minolta's Maximum 7000 and 4000AF in 1985.

Except it was film... :-(

msu79gt82 said:

MrHollywood said:

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic.

Click to expand...

But that’s the big issue that contradicts what you say below. Nikon has not yet brought their lower end up and with no known date to do so.

Click to expand...

This ebb and flow has been happening for years. Nikon is bringing lower cost products in shortly. Not knowing the "date" doesn't mean a thing.

msu79gt82 said:

MrHollywood said:

I'm just saying that we're at a level now where everything is just amazingly great, both in bodies and in lenses.

Across the board you really can't go wrong and even mid level stuff is better than top tier tech from just a few years ago.

Click to expand...

No Nikon is definitely NOT “at a level now where everything is just amazingly great” because they’re not at an elite level across the board.

Click to expand...

LOL! Says who? Consumer and industry reaction to the Z9 and Z8 puts them at the top of many lists. The Z9 is certainly the best camera I've used and I have access to every top tier body out there.

The lenses are superb, full stop.

msu79gt82 said:

Nikon publicly announced in April ’22 that they intend to deploy advanced features from the Z9 across the lineup, or board as you say, by 2025.

Click to expand...

Not relevant. Nikon does things at their own pace. What can't you do with ANY of these systems at this point? They are all superb.

msu79gt82 said:

Perhaps then (assuming Sony/Canon doesn’t make any more significant advances) Nikon may usher in the end of the camera wars.

Click to expand...

What advances? What will be added to make a meaningful contribution to a set of cameras that are so capable? At this point it's reached a plateau where very few shooters can exploit half of the features as it is. The Z9 sensor readout and color science is so good that we can shoot solid tests along side a Sony Venice II rigged at over 100K. When a inexpensive hybrid camera can do that (as can top Sony and Canon), I'm going to have to call it a draw and the war is over.

For shooters who can't afford the top stuff, that's a different situation that Nikon will address over the coming months and years. But with the Z9 and Z8, Nikon is no longer a weaker choice.

I'm preparing to shoot a feature film with a budget of 5 million. A pair of Z9's can be employed for certain tasks OVER the Sony's we used previously. I admit this is a very specific and advanced application, but the reality is ALL of these cameras are awesome. I know that with Nikon yet to release fully competitive low-cost bodies, some folks are still waiting. But if you have the means for a Z9 or Z8, what else do you need in a hybrid?

And I'll say the same for Sony and Canon's awesome flagships. Maybe I should have said "The Flagship War is Over." ;-)

Robert

MrHollywood said:

Perhaps the only issue is the cost of a fully rounded out package. You can spend 20K very quickly on a top body and a selection of quality lenses.

Beyond that little issue....I hereby declare that the "Camera wars are over!" ;-)

Robert

Click to expand...

You must be joking because by far these days, the Biggest issues are Cost.

Outside of the Forums where some are not only apparently owning multiple Brands and a Closet full of Lens, by comparison, the vast Majority are instead, pinching their pennies when it comes to new Camera Gear.

Nikon dropped a Price War with the Z8/Z9. Sony literally has done the same with the release of their latest cropped body. Every release can have a Ripple type impact, not only at competitors gear, but their own as well.

If the Sony a9iii drops this year with the Rumored Specs, but at a much lower price then expected, then we need to revisit this thought process. Not even to mention the rumored Canon R1 and R5ii.

The Camera Wars have barely begun. The more the overall Markets shrinks, the worse it will get.

MrHollywood said:

What advances? What will be added to make a meaningful contribution to a set of cameras that are so capable? At this point it's reached a plateau where very few shooters can exploit half of the features as it is. The Z9 sensor readout and color science is so good that we can shoot solid tests along side a Sony Venice II rigged at over 100K. When a inexpensive hybrid camera can do that (as can top Sony and Canon), I'm going to have to call it a draw and the war is over.

And I'll say the same for Sony and Canon's awesome flagships. Maybe I should have said "The Flagship War is Over." ;-)

Robert

Click to expand...

First point, it is NOT about exploiting a Bunch of features, most never Needed to begin with. However is about those feature which Many keep asking for, but the Brands can never seem to deliver. Huge difference.

Nikon has apparently offered their latest advancement, Auto Capture in only the Z9, Meanwhile Sony is apparently offering Auto Framing and the New separate AI processing chip, in most of their recent higher priced offerings. That plus Auto Framing.

Canon is apparently putting the latest AF tech, in most if not all of their latest camera.

As to whether or not Flagship, well that is exactly where Companies can push the boundaries if they so chose. So Flagships are the Last place where the War would be over.

I find that little issue of 20k a big one. But naturally over time, one would hope the technology will mature, the used market will grow, and the kit I would like in a mirrorless ecosystem would become affordable.

ProDude said:

if someone had a Canon, Sony or Nikon top level camera and couldn't pretty much nail everything that might come along, be it animals, people, landscapes or events, it is now officially the user that is at fault. NOT the camera.

Click to expand...

Most folks that say that, don't shoot the most challenging things, much less even think of what is.

Go out today and trying shooting in Free Space, and not hovering over something, a Dragon Fly and or Butterfly. Find that one lonely Swallow, also flying in Free Space, not just landing to feed it young and or leaving the nest.

And or when Wildlife is hidden between a variety of obstacles. Even the best of the best Gear, can and Will fail, without the user being the problem.

So in spite of what some Folks seem to want and think, Camera Gear regardless of price is NOT perfect. So no, it's not official.

ProDude said:

MrHollywood said:

Now that I've had my Z9 for a bit, and also shot with other Canon and Sony top level stuff, I can see where things have landed.

The Z9/Z8 are, in my view, two of the best cameras at any price. I prefer the Z9 to top offerings from Canon and Sony for a variety of reasons that matter to "me."

But the reality is more than obvious.

Outside of Nikon bringing up their lower end stuff to higher levels, we're now in a place where ANY camera is absolutely fantastic. And you can make a case for owning ANY of th top systems without looking back. I could switch systems tomorrow and give up nothing, beyond my time with a new learning curve.

The camera wars are endless, but the hair splitting is rather absurd at this point. Whatever your needs, there are AMAZING options from every camera company. You really can't go wrong.

Perhaps the only issue is the cost of a fully rounded out package. You can spend 20K very quickly on a top body and a selection of quality lenses.

Beyond that little issue....I hereby declare that the "Camera wars are over!" ;-)

Robert

Click to expand...

if someone had a Canon, Sony or Nikon top level camera and couldn't pretty much nail everything that might come along, be it animals, people, landscapes or events, it is now officially the user that is at fault. NOT the camera. I owned the top Canon and Sony cameras and lenses over the last 4 years. They were great. But now I also have the Z9 and feel I have absolutely NO limitations on whatever I need or want to be shooting. Whether I'm getting paid or it's for fun, it ALL comes out perfectly. I can't ask more than that. I don't care what Sony or Canon come out with at this point. Any improvements are beyond splitting hairs for what I'll ever shoot which is already making the grade.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

I did a jewelry shoot for a friend and then used the Z9 for auditions for our upcoming film. I've also used it more casually shooting kids and candids in all kinds of light.

The results are 100% spot on. If something goes wrong, it's ME. I've experienced this sort of AF accuracy with Sony stuff, but this camera is at least as good and I prefer it in other ways that put it well ahead for me.

Now, if my whole system was built around Sony A1's, would I switch to Nikon? Nope! That Sony is also amazing and both systems have killer glass.

These are pretty amazing times for cameras.

Robert