Olympus 75 or sigma 56

*sigh*. To vent, I really wish someone would come out with a 67.5mm f/2. I guess or an f/1.7 if they really just have to come as close as possible to duplicating a FF 135mm f/3.5. It was one of my favorite walk around mid-telephotos. Just such a useful FL.

I love me my Sigma 56/1.4. And that Olympus 75/1.8 might tick the box even though it is a little longer than 67.5. But the 56 is just a wee bit too short, I suspect the 75 will be a wee bit too long. And frankly both are chunkers. I know, way smaller and lighter than FF. But just packing my new camera bag (which has stretched a fair amount, which is nice), and it isn't just the fact that the 56/1.4 is kind of thick, it is still some hefty weight for backpacking. I know kit is always some kind of compromise. And if I end up with the 40-150/4 to go with my 12-45/4 plus a 7.5/2 probably is the absolute perfect backpacking kit to cover all the things. But I just love me some primes. And I'd imagine with a decent design, a 62.5mm f/2 would probably be 20-30% lighter than the current 56mm and 75mm offerings and maybe 10% smaller. Heck, even rolling at a 62.5mm f/2.2 would be fine to get it a little smaller. That is still a useful 1 2/3 stops faster than an f/4 zoom at considerably less size and weight. And longer enough than a 12-45/4 to be a nice addition for a longer lens.

Dunno. Anyway, I am leaning towards picking up the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 sometime after this trip. I just don't know if it'll be it, or the 40-150/4 as my next lens. Because I think the slightly smaller diameter, even though it is heavier and longer, than the 56/1.4 might make it a better go to for an ultralight weight backpacking setup. 7.5/2, 12-45/4 and 75/1.8. Swap the 75 for the 40-150/4 when weight and space are at slightly less of a premium or when the extra reach is really needed. I am leaning more towards the hike below the rim might just be the 7.5/2, 12-45/4 and 56/1.4.

I did find on my last two trips that if you remove wildlife photos from my last trip, mid tele in the ~56mm range was pretty often used. I checked the FL on the pictures I took with my 40-150/2.8 in Colorado in May and the times I used it for non-wildlife photos, almost 100% of them were between 50-80mm. When I did Oregon last summer, I didn't carry any zooms. I think the break down was that my brand new 9mm f/1.7 got about 40% of the action, then I think it was my 12/2 got about 20%, then my 56/1.4 was about 20%, but just a little less than the 12/2, then my 17/1.8 was around 10%. And then my 45/1.8 and 25/1.4 each had just a few pictures taken with them.

For my 12-45/4 in Colorado that's about what I found too. Pictures taken with it, most were around 12mm with just a few in the 15-45mm range (probably 70% of those taken were at 17mm or less). Though my 9/1.7 got a lot less use in Colorado than in Oregon. Maybe just 20% of the pictures in Colorado were with the 9/1.7. Some really fantastic pictures and I am glad I had it. But less. Other than the 9/1.7 the only other prime I used was my 12/2 for about 6 pictures.

A 67.5mm would have been absolutely perfect in there for just a little more reach, but not a lot more...

C'est la vie. But Panasonic or OM, if you are reading this, could you please consider making one? Heck, Laowa, if you decide to make a longer FL lens, could you consider a dedicated m4/3 67.5mm around f/2? I think I'd seriously consider dealing with a manual focus longer FL lens to have one. For landscape and backpacking, I don't have to deal with fast action, so focus peaking and taking my time would be fine 98% of the time.

Or hell, Sigma if you decide to make M4/3 compatible new lenses again, take note!
Would be nice, I actually went looking around for vintage lenses before I bought the Oly 75/1.8, I think there were some 60 or 65mm Oly SLR lenses that were kinda tempting but after adding an adapter there wasn't much of a size or weight advantage, so the modern lens just made more sense. To give you a sense of what's possible, I'm gonna mention a few FF lenses around that FL (the image circle doesn't seem to impact size/weight nearly as much at these focal lengths as at wider ones).

Sigma actually makes a FF 65/2 already that's optically excellent and close to the size of the 56/1.4 or 75/1.8, but it's kinda overbuilt (as most of their smaller FF primes are) and weighs in at a hefty 405g, and it's not that much cheaper than the Oly. OTOH their 90/2.8 DN is a little smaller and weighs in at 295g, I don't own an APS-C body and already own a FF short tele but if I ever got a crop body I'd get that FF 90/2.8 right away just to have a tiny 135mm equivalent.

Those are available in E & L mount btw. The 90/2.8 also focuses closer than most. I do have a 775g 135/1.8 (one of the lightest around) & a vintage 325g 135/5.6 (Canon FD, adapted to E)...

Yeah I've come to like the FL, thanks in large part to the Oly 75/1.8. What about if you use cheaper/lighter construction than all these metal clad primes tho? Enter the Samyang 75/1.8 (my FF short tele), it's about the size of the Oly but very plastic and weighs in at 230g rather than 300g, even tho it's still a FF lens that's pretty good optically (sharper and nicer rendering than Sony's larger 85/1.8). So that seems to be the most obvious way to get weigh down, lighter plastic construction.

Well that or making them slower, but yeah, I actually wish someone would make a FF 135/3.5 or even 150/3.5 right now, with AF and modern optics (there's a Batis 135/2.8 but it's kinda overbuilt IMO at 600g, I bet dropping the OIS alone gets it to 500-550g).

The Oly 75/1.8 seems to be super well built tho, I remember reading a teardown of it at LensRentals, and I think the long standing rumor is that Sigma designed it, so they seem to have a knack for these. Sigma's old 60/2.8 was optically excellent as well, it's discontinued now but you should be able to find it cheap used (was like $220 new in M4/3 mount but was sold for several APS-C mounts too), and it weighs only 190g. Felt super right at home on the GM1.

It's not much smaller than the 56/1.4 tho, I used a borrowed Sigma 60/2.8 a buncha times for concerts before I got my Oly 75/1.8 and it was very fun, tho for those purposes the extra speed/reach of the latter is welcome.
Yeah, I had the Sigma 60mm f/2.8 starting with an EPL-1 years back. I got rid of it when I got the Sigma 56mm f/1.4. That was my chief thing, it's almost the same size as the 56/1.4, even if it is a lot lighter...but it is also two stops slower. I might almost consider going back and buying a used one again for backpacking just to shave some weight and give me a bit of useful extra reach past the 45mm my 12-45/4 gets me. I mean, it is still a stop faster and as far I can tell, they are all extremely sharp.

For my uses then, 2 stops of extra speed taking up about the same amount of camera bag space, at very close to the same focal length, at even better IQ was worth the cost and extra heft (what, 90g more?). But with more hiking and trying to get into some backpacking, the 60/2.8 might actually be a better choice, just for that use only.

I know I am still going to be left wanting just a tiny bit more speed, and a tiny bit more reach.
Look at your last line above - after talking yourself into a Sigma 60 f2.8, and go buy the 75 f1.8 and stop "figuring" and quit worrying and stewing . Just get it and be happy. "They're" not going to make a 67.5 f1.4, so get it out of your thoughts.

John
I agree, not likely we'll ever see a 67.5mm ... interestingly enough given that it (135mm eq) was once upon a time king of the affordable short telephoto lenses. 120mm and 150mm were odd ducks that were never very popular, fast 85mm THE portrait lens to have , and 105mm the next best portrait lens. I got the 56mm (112mm eq) as a good short tele compromise and have no regrets, it's a great lens to have.

--
Roger
 
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I agree, not likely we'll ever see a 67.5mm ... interestingly enough given that it (135mm eq) was once upon a time king of the affordable short telephoto lenses. 120mm and 150mm were odd ducks that were never very popular, fast 85mm THE portrait lens to have , and 105mm the next best portrait lens. I got the 56mm (112mm eq) as a good short tele compromise and have no regrets, it's a great lens to have.
TBH I don't think there was a compelling reason that 135 became a de facto "first tele" for the 135 format but just sort of happened. Regardless, they were produced in vast quantities and in an array of qualities, and everybody offered at least one, sometimes a few options. Most were very cheap to buy.

By reputation, the famous Nikkor 105 was more valued as a portrait lens than any 135, but a good quality 135 was still useful for environmental portraiture. As a tele, compared to how we think of teles today, not nearly enough reach.

Cheers,

Rick
 
If you like old MF lenses the OLY 135 f/2.8 is a great one. Super compact. All metal. Built-in hood. Built like a tank. 270 on an M43 sensor. Very sharp if stopped down to f/5.6. Renders warm and beautiful. I've had good luck with it. Easy to use and accurate with MF Assist. Inexpensive if oyu can find one.
 
If you like old MF lenses the OLY 135 f/2.8 is a great one. Super compact. All metal. Built-in hood. Built like a tank. 270 on an M43 sensor. Very sharp if stopped down to f/5.6. Renders warm and beautiful. I've had good luck with it. Easy to use and accurate with MF Assist. Inexpensive if oyu can find one.
I have one and must say am not impressed. It's sharp enough, but it lacks contrast and the colors are rather dull. Maybe it's just my copy. It's my abandoned lens drawer.

On the other hand, take a look at the Nikon 105mm f2.8 AI-S macro lens. THAT'S a great lens! It's bigger, heavier and probably 2x the price, but on another level entirely in terms of image quality and sheer manual lens character.
 
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It's a film cam lens from the 1970s and 1980s and you can fix contrast and add color in post but if you have something that doesn't need it and you like it better...

I never had the Nikon. Sounds good.

--

Author of "The Pelican Squadron" - Harvey Gene Sherman
 
On the manual lenses, even within brand there are significant variations. Pentax made several 135mm f2.5 lenses and all were pretty good, but the best IMHO was the one that had no reference to "Takumar" (Just says SMC Pentax) on the lens ring. It's a bayonet nount. Also a sleeper IMHO was the Pentax screw mount 150mm f4 prime - but it has a long min focus - but for 300mm f4 on FF - who cares. I do use the Tokina 90mm f2.5 (Bokina) as a macro lens sometimes although I have the 60 macro in M4/3. Yes. Some of the older lenses are worth a spin.

John
 
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I'll post a few pictures later of the trip. I took my 40-150 4-5.6 and 40-150 2.8 and didn't use either of them for any pictures. The 56/1.4, 9/1.7, 7.5/2, and 12-45/4 all went below the rim. I also took my 17/1.8 and 24/2 with me on the trip, but not below the rim. I think I might have taken a picture or two with the 24/2, but otherwise I didn't use the 17/1.8 or 9/1.7 either.

That might not have been for lack of a good use. I had some personal stuff going on during the trip, which left me very distracted. But I did do that Plateau Point hike and enjoyed it a lot. I am VERY glad I lost about 15lbs before I went and had gotten in much better shape. Still a HARD hike. Took a lot longer than planned. I started at about 5:15am, ran in to mountain goats a few hundred yards down the trail that walked right past me. I got the Plateau Point a little late because I spent a lot of time taking pictures on the way down. Almost none that weren't on my phone on the way back up. If I am remembering right, I got to Plateau Point around 8:45am and took a few pictures. The sun was already baking with the temps in the mid 80s in the shade when I got back to Havasupai Gardens. Then again, 12 years ago when it was Indian Gardens, the temps were about 95F when my wife and I got there at about 11am (we started later and went a little slower than I was going).

The hike back up was HARD. I mentioned losing 15lbs, well I crashed that weight between diet and a ton of exercise over about 3 weeks. The biggest problem with that? It has been very hard to eat much. The exercise is suppressing my hunger and the less snacking and smaller portion sizes also means my stomach has shrunk. So all I managed was choking down some cashews and a granola bar for the hike. I was using salt/electrolyte tablets and downed a salt rehydration packet halfway back up. My pace was fast enough in the heat and sun that I was sweating it out faster than my digestion could take back up fluids. So I had to rest up at the 1.5 and 3 mile rest houses a lot longer than I had wanted to (about half an hour each). So I didn't get back out until 1pm. So 7hrs total time. If I'd cut down the picture taking some, I probably could have done 6.5hrs without actually being more tired since a lot of it was in the cooler weather on the way down with a lot of pauses. If the weather was cooler and my energy hadn't tanked on the way up, I probably could have done it closer to 5.5-6hrs with as much picture taking as I had done.

Anyway, a great hike and I am glad I did it. A few pictures to come when I have a chance to pull them off my camera later this week.
 
*sigh*. To vent, I really wish someone would come out with a 67.5mm f/2. I guess or an f/1.7 if they really just have to come as close as possible to duplicating a FF 135mm f/3.5. It was one of my favorite walk around mid-telephotos. Just such a useful FL.

I love me my Sigma 56/1.4. And that Olympus 75/1.8 might tick the box even though it is a little longer than 67.5. But the 56 is just a wee bit too short, I suspect the 75 will be a wee bit too long. And frankly both are chunkers. I know, way smaller and lighter than FF. But just packing my new camera bag (which has stretched a fair amount, which is nice), and it isn't just the fact that the 56/1.4 is kind of thick, it is still some hefty weight for backpacking. I know kit is always some kind of compromise. And if I end up with the 40-150/4 to go with my 12-45/4 plus a 7.5/2 probably is the absolute perfect backpacking kit to cover all the things. But I just love me some primes. And I'd imagine with a decent design, a 62.5mm f/2 would probably be 20-30% lighter than the current 56mm and 75mm offerings and maybe 10% smaller. Heck, even rolling at a 62.5mm f/2.2 would be fine to get it a little smaller. That is still a useful 1 2/3 stops faster than an f/4 zoom at considerably less size and weight. And longer enough than a 12-45/4 to be a nice addition for a longer lens.

Dunno. Anyway, I am leaning towards picking up the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 sometime after this trip. I just don't know if it'll be it, or the 40-150/4 as my next lens. Because I think the slightly smaller diameter, even though it is heavier and longer, than the 56/1.4 might make it a better go to for an ultralight weight backpacking setup. 7.5/2, 12-45/4 and 75/1.8. Swap the 75 for the 40-150/4 when weight and space are at slightly less of a premium or when the extra reach is really needed. I am leaning more towards the hike below the rim might just be the 7.5/2, 12-45/4 and 56/1.4.

I did find on my last two trips that if you remove wildlife photos from my last trip, mid tele in the ~56mm range was pretty often used. I checked the FL on the pictures I took with my 40-150/2.8 in Colorado in May and the times I used it for non-wildlife photos, almost 100% of them were between 50-80mm. When I did Oregon last summer, I didn't carry any zooms. I think the break down was that my brand new 9mm f/1.7 got about 40% of the action, then I think it was my 12/2 got about 20%, then my 56/1.4 was about 20%, but just a little less than the 12/2, then my 17/1.8 was around 10%. And then my 45/1.8 and 25/1.4 each had just a few pictures taken with them.

For my 12-45/4 in Colorado that's about what I found too. Pictures taken with it, most were around 12mm with just a few in the 15-45mm range (probably 70% of those taken were at 17mm or less). Though my 9/1.7 got a lot less use in Colorado than in Oregon. Maybe just 20% of the pictures in Colorado were with the 9/1.7. Some really fantastic pictures and I am glad I had it. But less. Other than the 9/1.7 the only other prime I used was my 12/2 for about 6 pictures.

A 67.5mm would have been absolutely perfect in there for just a little more reach, but not a lot more...

C'est la vie. But Panasonic or OM, if you are reading this, could you please consider making one? Heck, Laowa, if you decide to make a longer FL lens, could you consider a dedicated m4/3 67.5mm around f/2? I think I'd seriously consider dealing with a manual focus longer FL lens to have one. For landscape and backpacking, I don't have to deal with fast action, so focus peaking and taking my time would be fine 98% of the time.

Or hell, Sigma if you decide to make M4/3 compatible new lenses again, take note!
Would be nice, I actually went looking around for vintage lenses before I bought the Oly 75/1.8, I think there were some 60 or 65mm Oly SLR lenses that were kinda tempting but after adding an adapter there wasn't much of a size or weight advantage, so the modern lens just made more sense. To give you a sense of what's possible, I'm gonna mention a few FF lenses around that FL (the image circle doesn't seem to impact size/weight nearly as much at these focal lengths as at wider ones).

Sigma actually makes a FF 65/2 already that's optically excellent and close to the size of the 56/1.4 or 75/1.8, but it's kinda overbuilt (as most of their smaller FF primes are) and weighs in at a hefty 405g, and it's not that much cheaper than the Oly. OTOH their 90/2.8 DN is a little smaller and weighs in at 295g, I don't own an APS-C body and already own a FF short tele but if I ever got a crop body I'd get that FF 90/2.8 right away just to have a tiny 135mm equivalent.

Those are available in E & L mount btw. The 90/2.8 also focuses closer than most. I do have a 775g 135/1.8 (one of the lightest around) & a vintage 325g 135/5.6 (Canon FD, adapted to E)...

Yeah I've come to like the FL, thanks in large part to the Oly 75/1.8. What about if you use cheaper/lighter construction than all these metal clad primes tho? Enter the Samyang 75/1.8 (my FF short tele), it's about the size of the Oly but very plastic and weighs in at 230g rather than 300g, even tho it's still a FF lens that's pretty good optically (sharper and nicer rendering than Sony's larger 85/1.8). So that seems to be the most obvious way to get weigh down, lighter plastic construction.

Well that or making them slower, but yeah, I actually wish someone would make a FF 135/3.5 or even 150/3.5 right now, with AF and modern optics (there's a Batis 135/2.8 but it's kinda overbuilt IMO at 600g, I bet dropping the OIS alone gets it to 500-550g).

The Oly 75/1.8 seems to be super well built tho, I remember reading a teardown of it at LensRentals, and I think the long standing rumor is that Sigma designed it, so they seem to have a knack for these. Sigma's old 60/2.8 was optically excellent as well, it's discontinued now but you should be able to find it cheap used (was like $220 new in M4/3 mount but was sold for several APS-C mounts too), and it weighs only 190g. Felt super right at home on the GM1.

It's not much smaller than the 56/1.4 tho, I used a borrowed Sigma 60/2.8 a buncha times for concerts before I got my Oly 75/1.8 and it was very fun, tho for those purposes the extra speed/reach of the latter is welcome.
Yeah, I had the Sigma 60mm f/2.8 starting with an EPL-1 years back. I got rid of it when I got the Sigma 56mm f/1.4. That was my chief thing, it's almost the same size as the 56/1.4, even if it is a lot lighter...but it is also two stops slower. I might almost consider going back and buying a used one again for backpacking just to shave some weight and give me a bit of useful extra reach past the 45mm my 12-45/4 gets me. I mean, it is still a stop faster and as far I can tell, they are all extremely sharp.

For my uses then, 2 stops of extra speed taking up about the same amount of camera bag space, at very close to the same focal length, at even better IQ was worth the cost and extra heft (what, 90g more?). But with more hiking and trying to get into some backpacking, the 60/2.8 might actually be a better choice, just for that use only.

I know I am still going to be left wanting just a tiny bit more speed, and a tiny bit more reach.
Look at your last line above - after talking yourself into a Sigma 60 f2.8, and go buy the 75 f1.8 and stop "figuring" and quit worrying and stewing . Just get it and be happy. "They're" not going to make a 67.5 f1.4, so get it out of your thoughts.

John
Really it is a 67.5mm f/2 that I really want someone to make. With autofocus. But yes your point is valid. It is going to be a wait though now. Financial ummm...considerations have come up so any future photography gear purchases are going to have to be extremely necessary or they are likely to need to wait a few years. Found out during the trip my wife and I are getting a divorce. Short story is after 17 years of marriage she realized her truth is she is gay, and not Bi and is in love with her coworker (a love separated by the entire country, so this'll be complicated since both have kids). I am devastated, but happy for her. It'll be amicable and we are likely to remain best friends for the rest of our lives as well as equally share custody of the children. But in my state, it takes a long time to get a uncontested divorce and with financial considerations, that fact that we are on fantastic terms and want this gentle on the kids (all teens/tweens) and live in a big house, there isn't much pressure for me to move out. Just move bedrooms. But it does mean we need to cut way back on spending during this process for both fairness reasons and so we have enough money to make two households more workable. Especially with real estate prices in my area and the sky-high mortgage rates. It is going to be difficult for me to afford to buy a house nearby, and with three older kids I don't want to pack them in to a smaller apartment, and rental houses and large apartments in my area are MORE expensive than a 3 bed ~2 bath houses. Even with mortgage rates what they are.

So with alimony (split child care) for a few years, plus an expensive mortgage on a much smaller house, at least until I can refinance some day and needing to save as much as possible for the probably 15-18 months this process is going to take...no more lenses for me.
 
Thanks for the report. Too bad you hauled the 40-150 f/2.8 around. I struggle in mid-80s temps. Not sure I could go on this hike anymore. I'm aging out for it when the temps are over 80.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, on the Olympic Peninsula, mountain goats are very aggressive. You have to stay out of their way. No trail sharing with them. You run or get behind a tree.

Sounds like you enjoyed it.
 
Life is weird
 
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Just sharing a few of the pictures from the hike



--
Many things dealing with Olympus and their OM and Pen cameras, plus my general photography and musings http://omexperience.wordpress.com/
 
Did you try lifting the shadows?
 
I like this a lot
 
Pretty decent recovery. Did you try any HDR or HiRes shots? They are ideal for this.
 

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