Very sad news indeed

Gram for gram the best camera I own is Canon G7 X mark II followed by Canon M6 mk II and TZ95D.

--

KEG

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

I wanted to get TZ100 and I couldn't find it anywhere so I settled for TZ95D.

Sony RX10ivuser said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Sony RX10ivuser said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Sony RX10ivuser said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Sony RX10ivuser said:

Manufacturers stop using these other sized sensor’s because Sony stopped manufacturing them.

Click to expand...

Fuji manufactures their own sensors in house? That's another reason to choose Fuji.....

Click to expand...

you might to check that , Sony was making the 2/3 but to fujis own specs

Fujiuseruk said:

I thought Panasonic manufactured their own sensors too though.

From what I read though, if the camera manufacturers asked Sony to produce x size sensors, Sony would do it? I can't see a reason why Sony would stop manufacturing them except that the camera makers stopped asking for them.

Click to expand...

Because they updated the factory and what design they make , think of the demand for phones , industrial camera sensors for automated lines , traffic cams etc .
Demands , designs and costs change with time .

Click to expand...

Does Fuji came any more 2/3 sensor cameras....besides the X-S1, the X-10 line had that sensor too I think.

The X-S1 is still quite popular....since you had/have both, how would you compare its image quality to the FZ300? They have a similar lens focal length range, the FZ300 has the brighter lens but the X-S1 has the larger sensor.

Click to expand...

They are two very different cameras , Fuji is an older design using exr tech so I use it at 6mp 24-624mm optical and take advantage of the extra dynamic range and manual zoom controls.

The fz330 is a faster focusing camera with better video capability.

I prefer the Fuji personally but I’m more into wildlife and don’t do Astro .

I now have my P950 for extra zoom range when needed.

Click to expand...

X-S1 produces really nice images and it's better than either the P950 or FZ300 once you get above base ISO? Also would you say that the FZ300's i-zoom is better than the P950's dynamic fine zoom?

Click to expand...

first thing is it’s pointless comparing the two different zoom extensions due to the vast differences in focal ranges .
The fz330 can’t compete with the P950 as the P950 has a much greater zoom range

Fujiuseruk said:

So from an image quality perspective at which focal length would you say the P950 "gets better" than the FZ300 -- anything more than 600mm, more than 1000mm, more than 1200mm, etc?

Click to expand...

My P950 is better than my fz330 as I prefer the jpeg output from the Nikon .
The only plus for the fz is f2.8 at 600mm and it’s very rare I needed that .
You saw the results from my own tests and the P950 had better details especially resolving the text at every focal length .
Anyway when does you fz80 and fz300 arrive so you can do your tests .

Click to expand...

They are here, I plan to wait until the P900 comes back next week to test them against each other. It will be interesting to see how they compare at various distances (I tend to shoot at 100 ft distances.)

I wonder if the better detail resolution with the P900/950 is because they are 16 MP sensors or perhaps better IS? Based on the article posted in here, looks like Nikon is also done with compact cameras? So the P950 might be the end of the line for them too?



--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Sony RX10ivuser said:

Manufacturers stop using these other sized sensor’s because Sony stopped manufacturing them.

Click to expand...

Fuji manufactures their own sensors in house? That's another reason to choose Fuji.....

I thought Panasonic manufactured their own sensors too though.

From what I read though, if the camera manufacturers asked Sony to produce x size sensors, Sony would do it? I can't see a reason why Sony would stop manufacturing them except that the camera makers stopped asking for them.

Click to expand...

OK ... we are gonna go through again ...

In an earlier interview (several years ago), a Sony executive admitted they "withhold certain (newer) technologies.

Since the FZ2000/2500 or FZ1000-"II" did not include the "stacked" sensor technology, it is possible Sony indeed held it for a monopoly on their RX10-IV.

And since they (possibly) were restricted to the (original) older 1"-type sensor, that indeed may now be dropped by Sony.

Just speculating, but that could also be the reason Nikon never brought out their (new) promised 1"-type ... in that the "stacked" was indeed then available (in RX10-IV), but maybe they refused it to Nikon, and they reasoned it would be inferior technology to use an "older" design.

I'm not sure they'd develop a camera to the point where they made an actual product announcement including technical specs, without knowing what components were available to them.

PhotoTeach2 said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Sony RX10ivuser said:

Manufacturers stop using these other sized sensor’s because Sony stopped manufacturing them.

Click to expand...

Fuji manufactures their own sensors in house? That's another reason to choose Fuji.....

I thought Panasonic manufactured their own sensors too though.

From what I read though, if the camera manufacturers asked Sony to produce x size sensors, Sony would do it? I can't see a reason why Sony would stop manufacturing them except that the camera makers stopped asking for them.

Click to expand...

OK ... we are gonna go through again ...

In an earlier interview (several years ago), a Sony executive admitted they "withhold certain (newer) technologies.

Since the FZ2000/2500 or FZ1000-"II" did not include the "stacked" sensor technology, it is possible Sony indeed held it for a monopoly on their RX10-IV.

And since they (possibly) were restricted to the (original) older 1"-type sensor, that indeed may now be dropped by Sony.

Just speculating, but that could also be the reason Nikon never brought out their (new) promised 1"-type ... in that the "stacked" was indeed then available (in RX10-IV), but maybe they refused it to Nikon, and they reasoned it would be inferior technology to use an "older" design.

Click to expand...

This is why I am extremely uncomfortable with Sony monopolizing sensor tech (similar to what Intel does for cpu), they've always shown some unscrupulous corrupt corporate activity.

KEG said:

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

Click to expand...

But in total the demand is so low to make it profitable. 99.9% of former users have moved to mobile phones. I still keep my LX15, got it repaired recently, but I don't expect any new model (except something for vlogging like Sony ZX).

Puppy2007 said:

KEG said:

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

Click to expand...

But in total the demand is so low to make it profitable. 99.9% of former users have moved to mobile phones. I still keep my LX15, got it repaired recently, but I don't expect any new model (except something for vlogging like Sony ZX).

Click to expand...

I dont know man, I'm not sure people who use camera phones even know what a real camera is, every time I see them holding one straight up and down I think they believe it's just a phone with a camera app on it.

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Puppy2007 said:

KEG said:

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

Click to expand...

But in total the demand is so low to make it profitable. 99.9% of former users have moved to mobile phones. I still keep my LX15, got it repaired recently, but I don't expect any new model (except something for vlogging like Sony ZX).

Click to expand...

I dont know man, I'm not sure people who use camera phones even know what a real camera is, every time I see them holding one straight up and down I think they believe it's just a phone with a camera app on it.

Click to expand...

I've used quarter plates rated in H&D, roll film, 35mm, and digicams, they've become easier to use over time, as technology improved. And now my phone camera does most of my spur of the moment snaps, copying, and even portraiture - but I'm still waiting for one with better zoom, and an EVF
Cyril

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Puppy2007 said:

KEG said:

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

Click to expand...

But in total the demand is so low to make it profitable. 99.9% of former users have moved to mobile phones. I still keep my LX15, got it repaired recently, but I don't expect any new model (except something for vlogging like Sony ZX).

Click to expand...

I dont know man, I'm not sure people who use camera phones even know what a real camera is, every time I see them holding one straight up and down I think they believe it's just a phone with a camera app on it.

Click to expand...

but I guess the biggest volume of buyers of market don't care at all about the definition of a camera or from where it came... they just want a "wow" photo to be shared seconds afterwards. And they're paying for it. Seems it's like that... =\

Sad news indeed, just another segment of the P&S camera industry throwing in the towel and shutting down. I still have 9 P&S cameras, several of them newer and bought to protect myself from news like this.

However, if we go back and review the history of photography, the number of people who have been serious about their photography has always been small. In the past, the majority of pictures were taken with box Brownies. Later, disposable cameras were popular. And eventually, there were quite a number of good quality film cameras that sold well in the late 80's and on into the 90's and the early 2000's. Small, convenient, and really pretty good.

We traveled a lot in the 90's and well into the 2000's, and it seemed everyone had a small point and shoot digital camera. And now, starting about 15 years ago, Cell phones began to have decent quality cameras, and soon everybody had a cell phone with a decent camera in it. And on my cruises and land vacations, I was seeing fewer and fewer cameras, and more and more cell phones being used.

So, if you're not "into" serious photography, a cell phone is a convenient way to get a decent camera at little extra cost, since we all need a cell phone anyway. Right!

So, what to do? I personally have stocked up on models with 1" sensors. Some bought used, or "open box" to save some money. And I bought a second copy of one I use a lot and put it away as insurance. I'm 85 now, and I believe I have all the cameras I'll need for the rest of my life. Will I buy any more? Maybe. I still have GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) and if something comes along that floats my boat, I'll probably buy it.

PHAER said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Puppy2007 said:

KEG said:

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

Click to expand...

But in total the demand is so low to make it profitable. 99.9% of former users have moved to mobile phones. I still keep my LX15, got it repaired recently, but I don't expect any new model (except something for vlogging like Sony ZX).

Click to expand...

I dont know man, I'm not sure people who use camera phones even know what a real camera is, every time I see them holding one straight up and down I think they believe it's just a phone with a camera app on it.

Click to expand...

but I guess the biggest volume of buyers of market don't care at all about the definition of a camera or from where it came... they just want a "wow" photo to be shared seconds afterwards. And they're paying for it. Seems it's like that... =\

Click to expand...

Yes, smartphones serve a huge part of the population that is okay with simply taking and sharing, snapshots. I always wondered why a company like Nikon or Canon didn't partner with Samsung, Apple, etc., to create cell phones "powered by Nikon (or Canon) lenses.

From an article on shotkit.com:

"2022 findingsby Nikkei Asia have shown that from 2008 to 2021, global shipments of compact digital cameras across all major brands have suffered an absolutely catastrophic collapse of 97% from their 2008 levels.

To give some numbers to this, the total quantity of such cameras shipped globally in 2008 stood at a robust 110 million units according to research by the Camera & Imaging Products Association (CIPA). By 2021, this number had dropped down to just 3.01 million units sold.

The reason why is pretty straightforward and obvious: smartphones. These first took hold of the market through the original iPhone but later became ever more numerous and diverse as other brands started selling their own devices."

The numbers tell it all. The cameras in the later, more technically mature, cell phones are at least "good enough" by most people's criteria and they don't need to carry or spend for a second device.

GeraldW said:

The numbers tell it all. The cameras in the later, more technically mature, cell phones are at least "good enough" by most people's criteria and they don't need to carry or spend for a second device.

Click to expand...

Well, as I tried to comment on the many topics about it... actually the numbers do NOT tell it all! They tell the end, yes, but not much about how things happened.

Trying to keep as short as possible: it's not only how much smartphones evolved on the direction mass market wanted, but also how dedicated cameras were abandoned and did not evolve on the tech mass market wanted! It happened at the same time! For whatever reason, they were abandoned on what could have made the difference.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/11117239@N08/

Could you be a bit more specific. I have never been terribly fond of using the camera in my cell phones. The result has been a nice group of P&S cameras, The Canon G15 being one good example, the Panasonic FZ1000 II, and the Canon G7X II being others. I had thought the P&S models with the Sony 1" sensor would bring back the popularity of P^S models; but therecent move by Panasonic, and the reduction of models by Canon would say I was wrong.

Cyril Catt said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Puppy2007 said:

KEG said:

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

Click to expand...

But in total the demand is so low to make it profitable. 99.9% of former users have moved to mobile phones. I still keep my LX15, got it repaired recently, but I don't expect any new model (except something for vlogging like Sony ZX).

Click to expand...

I dont know man, I'm not sure people who use camera phones even know what a real camera is, every time I see them holding one straight up and down I think they believe it's just a phone with a camera app on it.

Click to expand...

I've used quarter plates rated in H&D, roll film, 35mm, and digicams, they've become easier to use over time, as technology improved. And now my phone camera does most of my spur of the moment snaps, copying, and even portraiture - but I'm still waiting for one with better zoom, and an EVF
Cyril

Click to expand...

an internally zooming lens would work wonders.

GeraldW said:

Sad news indeed, just another segment of the P&S camera industry throwing in the towel and shutting down. I still have 9 P&S cameras, several of them newer and bought to protect myself from news like this.

However, if we go back and review the history of photography, the number of people who have been serious about their photography has always been small. In the past, the majority of pictures were taken with box Brownies. Later, disposable cameras were popular. And eventually, there were quite a number of good quality film cameras that sold well in the late 80's and on into the 90's and the early 2000's. Small, convenient, and really pretty good.

We traveled a lot in the 90's and well into the 2000's, and it seemed everyone had a small point and shoot digital camera. And now, starting about 15 years ago, Cell phones began to have decent quality cameras, and soon everybody had a cell phone with a decent camera in it. And on my cruises and land vacations, I was seeing fewer and fewer cameras, and more and more cell phones being used.

So, if you're not "into" serious photography, a cell phone is a convenient way to get a decent camera at little extra cost, since we all need a cell phone anyway. Right!

So, what to do? I personally have stocked up on models with 1" sensors. Some bought used, or "open box" to save some money. And I bought a second copy of one I use a lot and put it away as insurance. I'm 85 now, and I believe I have all the cameras I'll need for the rest of my life. Will I buy any more? Maybe. I still have GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) and if something comes along that floats my boat, I'll probably buy it.

Click to expand...

haha I do that stocking up thing too, and I have to admit I have been considering buying second copies of my cameras lol. For now I have been paying particular attention to electronic shutters because cameras that have them should last the longest (*knock on wood* of course)

PHAER said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Puppy2007 said:

KEG said:

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

Click to expand...

But in total the demand is so low to make it profitable. 99.9% of former users have moved to mobile phones. I still keep my LX15, got it repaired recently, but I don't expect any new model (except something for vlogging like Sony ZX).

Click to expand...

I dont know man, I'm not sure people who use camera phones even know what a real camera is, every time I see them holding one straight up and down I think they believe it's just a phone with a camera app on it.

Click to expand...

but I guess the biggest volume of buyers of market don't care at all about the definition of a camera or from where it came... they just want a "wow" photo to be shared seconds afterwards. And they're paying for it. Seems it's like that... =\

Click to expand...

Yes, the biggest factor seems to be how quickly they can get the photos onto social media.

rangel28 said:

PHAER said:

OutsideTheMatrix said:

Puppy2007 said:

KEG said:

Pocket cameras are really popular, especially 1" models and to the degree that any shipment gets sold out almost instantly.

Click to expand...

But in total the demand is so low to make it profitable. 99.9% of former users have moved to mobile phones. I still keep my LX15, got it repaired recently, but I don't expect any new model (except something for vlogging like Sony ZX).

Click to expand...

I dont know man, I'm not sure people who use camera phones even know what a real camera is, every time I see them holding one straight up and down I think they believe it's just a phone with a camera app on it.

Click to expand...

but I guess the biggest volume of buyers of market don't care at all about the definition of a camera or from where it came... they just want a "wow" photo to be shared seconds afterwards. And they're paying for it. Seems it's like that... =\

Click to expand...

Yes, smartphones serve a huge part of the population that is okay with simply taking and sharing, snapshots. I always wondered why a company like Nikon or Canon didn't partner with Samsung, Apple, etc., to create cell phones "powered by Nikon (or Canon) lenses.

From an article on shotkit.com:

"2022 findingsby Nikkei Asia have shown that from 2008 to 2021, global shipments of compact digital cameras across all major brands have suffered an absolutely catastrophic collapse of 97% from their 2008 levels.

To give some numbers to this, the total quantity of such cameras shipped globally in 2008 stood at a robust 110 million units according to research by the Camera & Imaging Products Association (CIPA). By 2021, this number had dropped down to just 3.01 million units sold.

The reason why is pretty straightforward and obvious: smartphones. These first took hold of the market through the original iPhone but later became ever more numerous and diverse as other brands started selling their own devices."

Click to expand...

It would be interesting to segment this into different groups to see if sales are growing for any branch of the digital camera market?

If not small sensor cameras with large zoom lenses, what about 1" sensor cameras, M4/3? APS-C? Full Frame? Medium Format lol? Are sales growing for any segment of the digital camera market?

OutsideTheMatrix said:

It would be interesting to segment this into different groups to see if sales are growing for any branch of the digital camera market?

Click to expand...

You can check the CIPA reports: https://www.cipa.jp/e/stats/dc.html

OutsideTheMatrix said:

If not small sensor cameras with large zoom lenses, what about 1" sensor cameras, M4/3? APS-C? Full Frame? Medium Format lol? Are sales growing for any segment of the digital camera market?

Click to expand...

Full frame is the leader, it is apparent given the camera and lens options. APS-C is dead, except of Fuji and MFT is still good for video (GH6).