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The rejection of anything novel

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I might be an adherent of a “somewhere in the middle” school of thought. I’ve moved all my photography to iPhone and iPad and my recorded music to iPhone or iPad and a Bluetooth speaker. This wasn’t because I think the speaker sounds better than my old hi-fi or that my phone pictures are better than those from the Nikons I’ve had over the years. No, it’s because doing it on the phone makes it easy, nothing takes up any space and I’m comfortable enough with the results. I still look at reviews of things like the Nikon Z8 and think, well, if I won a lot of money, but the important thing is that I take more pictures than I used to and I like the look of them.
 
GeoffRG said:
What I am sensing in this thread is a degree of "If you don't see the advantages we must explain them to you". Thank you for the offer but actually, I can see the "advantages" of, for example, mirrorless cameras. I can also see the disadvantages, which some apologists don't appear to want to acknowledge.
Click to expand...
People who are advocates of anything tend to emphasize all the good things about the things they are advocating and the bad things about those they oppose.
 
Rene Gr said:
Rene Gr said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
There is no overlay when you turn the power off.
 
PieterB said:
I just wonder why lots of people are so against change. I don't get it.L
Click to expand...
I'm ALL about change, that's why I change my underwear at LEAST once a month!!! LoL

There will always be some push-back against change. The first big change I went through was the Auto Focus revolution. Everyone said it was unreliable, that it would focus on any random thing, everything but what we wanted to focus on. I went kicking and screaming....., but I went!!!

John
 
Rene Gr said:
Rene Gr said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
That isn't true. All the "overlay" does is supply information about f stop, shutter speed, and ISO in the viewfinder. The dimming you see is the aperture closing to a minimum.

--
Tom
 
Last edited:
tbcass said:
Rene Gr said:
tbcass said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
That isn't true. All the "overlay" does is supply information about f stop, shutter speed, and ISO in the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
Many DSLR have a transparent LCD overlayed in the OVF that may display active AF points and other info. Without power (no battery in camera) this LCD get darker.
 
J A C S said:
Rene Gr said:
J A C S said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
There is no overlay when you turn the power off.
Click to expand...
Actually there is on some models....the overlay panel is still there and powered but no items being displayed/lit. The overlay panel still needs a tiny bit of power to remain clear. Pull the battery and it goes very dim as if a dark filter is now in place.
 
Mako2011 said:
J A C S said:
Rene Gr said:
Mako2011 said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
There is no overlay when you turn the power off.
Click to expand...
Actually there is on some models....the overlay panel is still there and powered but no items being displayed/lit. The overlay panel still needs a tiny bit of power to remain clear. Pull the battery and it goes very dim as if a dark filter is now in place.
Click to expand...
The rejection of anything novel: Open Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
 
Fogel70 said:
tbcass said:
Rene Gr said:
Fogel70 said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
That isn't true. All the "overlay" does is supply information about f stop, shutter speed, and ISO in the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
Many DSLR have a transparent LCD overlayed in the OVF that may display active AF points and other info. Without power (no battery in camera) this LCD get darker.
Click to expand...
Whether or not the viewfinder darkens without the battery, in my experience (Nikon) you can still see through the lens. Something you most assuredly cannot do with a mirrorless camera.

I know the F5 has an overlay to display focus points, removing the battery doesn't prevent the use of the viewfinder. I have just tried it.
 
tony field said:
TechTalk2 said:
rurikw said:
something about human nature? Now all those old squabbles seem insignificant...
Click to expand...
While browsing any online forum, I'm often reminded of what James Madison wrote in Federalist Number 10:

"So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts."
Click to expand...
Fortunately Dpreview animosity Is transient by the nature of "internet dialogue".
Click to expand...
My experience has been that animosity's longevity and its nature is not altered by where it is expressed but varies with the individual who possesses and expresses it.
tony field said:
They really follow my "Ça m'est égal" philosophy.
Click to expand...
That too, as with any philosophy, is individual in nature and not universal in my experience.
 
Marty4650 said:
There is no need to call them Luddites or dinosaurs, or "old people stuck in their ways." Some of those people are actually quite young, and use their smartphones quite a bit. For everything except the thing they specialize in.
Click to expand...
He is not a dinosaur but certainly a branch off the thesaurian line, my cockatoo loves to play with my Motorola smart phone, although he understands it just as badly as I do!

D750; 28-105mm + some flashguns
D750; 28-105mm + some flashguns
 
GeoffRG said:
Fogel70 said:
tbcass said:
Rene Gr said:
GeoffRG said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
That isn't true. All the "overlay" does is supply information about f stop, shutter speed, and ISO in the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
Many DSLR have a transparent LCD overlayed in the OVF that may display active AF points and other info. Without power (no battery in camera) this LCD get darker.
Click to expand...
Whether or not the viewfinder darkens without the battery, in my experience (Nikon) you can still see through the lens. Something you most assuredly cannot do with a mirrorless camera.

I know the F5 has an overlay to display focus points, removing the battery doesn't prevent the use of the viewfinder. I have just tried it.
Click to expand...
I do not think anyone implied that it is not possible to use the OVF without battery, just that it may get darker. But I do not see much point in using the OVF without battery in camera as the LCD overlay require so little power with camera powered off.
 
PieterB said:
I became a member in 2007 when D-slrs were the norm and Canon and Nikon the big ones.

I started out with film of course since I'm 62 and when I started to take up photography as a really hobby, I was 26 (in 1986) and anything digital didn't really exist.

My first digital camera was a Konica Minolta Dimage 7i and I loved it. I could take pictures and could see the image and decided to keep it or not. Memory cards were still incredible expensive back then so you still had to baby the storage space.

But even then, people would be negative. Digital cameras would never replace film. Digital cameras were fake and film was real. Real photographers would never ever use a digital camera. Well, we all know how that went.

I sometimes wonder about these discussions in the past. I bought the first Sony that came out the Sony a100 and Sony was a brand that many people found vastly hilarious. Sony will never be a decent brand. We all know how that went.

Then the rise of the mirrorless. Mirrorles would never replace d-slrs because they were not good and would stay bad. Real photographers would never use a mirrorless camera.

I loved mirrorless because I could review the picture in the EVF so that I didn't need to put on my reading glasses but mirrorless was hated by many in the past.

I think we all know how that went.

Even the stupid discussion about flip-out screen in which some people would say that professional cameras could only have a fixed screen.

And now the same discussion about mobile phones.

I just wonder why lots of people are so against change. I don't get it.
Click to expand...
 
GeoffRG said:
Whether or not the viewfinder darkens without the battery, in my experience (Nikon) you can still see through the lens. Something you most assuredly cannot do with a mirrorless camera.
Click to expand...
So just turn the mirror-less body on...and now you may even have a more useful digital zoom as well
 
JohnSil said:
PieterB said:
I just wonder why lots of people are so against change. I don't get it.L
Click to expand...
I'm ALL about change, that's why I change my underwear at LEAST once a month!!! LoL

There will always be some push-back against change. The first big change I went through was the Auto Focus revolution. Everyone said it was unreliable, that it would focus on any random thing, everything but what we wanted to focus on. I went kicking and screaming....., but I went!!!

John
Click to expand...
Fortunately nobody warned me about that. I picked up my Fuji DSLR (slightly used) on a Saturday midAugust 2002 and the camera store made a couple configuration changes. After an hour or so at home I figured how to press the buttons and transfer the 350 mb cf card to my computer. On Sunday I took the camera to Expo Latino, a major yearly downtown cultural event. By the end of the afternoon I filled the 350 mB cf and 128 mB card the camera store gave me. Essentially all images were in perfect focus. Many of the shots are some of my "best ever" street shots.
 
With my dSLRs, I would often walk around with my camera on my neck, either in off mode or in sleep mode, look through the OVF occasionally to see if I should take a shot, and most often I do not. When I decide to shoot, I still have to wake the camera up.

With a ML camera, I need to keep the camera on all the time to do that. In their wisdom, Canon keeps the lens IS on when the OVF is active. I have to forbid the camera from going into a sleep mode. Of course, I would not do that.
 
Fogel70 said:
GeoffRG said:
Fogel70 said:
tbcass said:
Rene Gr said:
Fogel70 said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
That isn't true. All the "overlay" does is supply information about f stop, shutter speed, and ISO in the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
Many DSLR have a transparent LCD overlayed in the OVF that may display active AF points and other info. Without power (no battery in camera) this LCD get darker.
Click to expand...
Whether or not the viewfinder darkens without the battery, in my experience (Nikon) you can still see through the lens. Something you most assuredly cannot do with a mirrorless camera.

I know the F5 has an overlay to display focus points, removing the battery doesn't prevent the use of the viewfinder. I have just tried it.
Click to expand...
I do not think anyone implied that it is not possible to use the OVF without battery, just that it may get darker. But I do not see much point in using the OVF without battery in camera as the LCD overlay require so little power with camera powered off.
Click to expand...
Indeed, but at least one person thought otherwise. I actually use the camera in sleep if I use it to search for subjects but the point is that doing so uses very little power compared with an EVF.
 
GeoffRG said:
Fogel70 said:
tbcass said:
Rene Gr said:
GeoffRG said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
That isn't true. All the "overlay" does is supply information about f stop, shutter speed, and ISO in the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
Many DSLR have a transparent LCD overlayed in the OVF that may display active AF points and other info. Without power (no battery in camera) this LCD get darker.
Click to expand...
Whether or not the viewfinder darkens without the battery, in my experience (Nikon) you can still see through the lens. Something you most assuredly cannot do with a mirrorless camera.
Click to expand...
Why is the ability to see through the viewfinder with the power off so important to you? There is nothing difficult about turning the camera on.
 
tbcass said:
GeoffRG said:
Fogel70 said:
tbcass said:
Rene Gr said:
tbcass said:
Do feel free to ignore what I said about using the camera as a telescope. That is the reason I like SLRs you don’t need a battery to see image. You might not want to work that way but I do.
Click to expand...
Not even that is true with modern DSLRs. Most use an overlay which needs some battery power. Without power, the display will be very dark and dim.
Click to expand...
That isn't true. All the "overlay" does is supply information about f stop, shutter speed, and ISO in the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
Many DSLR have a transparent LCD overlayed in the OVF that may display active AF points and other info. Without power (no battery in camera) this LCD get darker.
Click to expand...
Whether or not the viewfinder darkens without the battery, in my experience (Nikon) you can still see through the lens. Something you most assuredly cannot do with a mirrorless camera.
Click to expand...
Why is the ability to see through the viewfinder with the power off so important to you? There is nothing difficult about turning the camera on.
Click to expand...
What is important is that the viewfinder doesn't consume power unlike a power hungry EVF which is why the EN-EL18b battery in the D5 is rated at 3780 shots and the bigger battery in the Z9 is rated at only 700. It is also the reason I haven't carried a spare battery for 17 years and see no good reason to do so in future.

Of course there is nothing difficult about switching the camera on, except that if I carry a mirrorless camera around for four or five hours, looking at possible shots often enough that it doesn't go to sleep, I end up with a flat battery. With an SLR I can repeat that exercise for the best part of a week without flattening the battery.

I repeat I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO CARRY A SPARE BATTERY.
 
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