Should Nikon become a lens manufacturer only? (Controversial)

LennyLevino · Jul 21, 2023

In my opinion, Nikon makes the best glass in the world for the money. As a dual shooter of both Nikon and Canon, I believe that Nikon's Z glass is on a whole different level than Canon's mirrorless stuff.

But Nikon's market share is shrinking and they don't seem to have the resources or capabilities to keep up with either Canon or Sony. They don't make their own sensors anymore, so they have to rely on Sony to provide them with what they need. Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

Here is my proposition: Stop making cameras and focus on only making lenses. Release them for Sony E mount at first, since it is an open mount that any manufacturer can freely make use of. This would make Sony's E mount the only viable alternative, and for Canon to stay in business, they would have to open their mount for Nikon lenses as well.

Sony and Canon has what, 85% of the market? So now Nikon can sell glass (which is where the money is in, anyway) to 100% of the market instead of their current 15%.

dtc25 · Jul 21, 2023

LennyLevino said:
Their AF is miles behind the big two

To start with, I’d take issue with that. The AF of the Z8 and Z9 is up there with Sony and Canon.

24Peter · Jul 21, 2023

NO!!!

capanikon · Jul 21, 2023

LennyLevino said:
In my opinion, Nikon makes the best glass in the world for the money. As a dual shooter of both Nikon and Canon, I believe that Nikon's Z glass is on a whole different level than Canon's mirrorless stuff.

I shot Canon FD and EF from 1989-1995 or so, when I switched to Nikon. Canon glass seemed as good as Nikon glass to me.

LennyLevino said:
But Nikon's market share is shrinking and they don't seem to have the resources or capabilities to keep up with either Canon or Sony.

Nikon's pretty much leading the technology field, ahead of Canon and Sony.

LennyLevino said:
They don't make their own sensors anymore,

Nikon's made their own sensors in the past and could probably make another tomorrow if they desired. Nikon also makes the machines that make imaging sensors (i think), the Semiconductor Lithography Systems.

LennyLevino said:
so they have to rely on Sony to provide them with what they need. Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

Here is my proposition: Stop making cameras and focus on only making lenses

Nikon started out as a lens-only manufacturer. Sony E mount is smaller and has an older design than Nikon's Z mount. Leica claimed E mount was really designed for aps-c only coz E mount is so small.

LennyLevino said:
. Release them for Sony E mount at first, since it is an open mount that any manufacturer can freely make use of. This would make Sony's E mount the only viable alternative, and for Canon to stay in business, they would have to open their mount for Nikon lenses as well.

Sony and Canon has what, 85% of the market? So now Nikon can sell glass (which is where the money is in, anyway) to 100% of the market instead of their current 15%.

Camera companies have always competed. Nikon's market share is rising in Japan, I read recently. https://nikonrumors.com/2023/06/17/...-share-in-japan-thanks-to-the-z8-camera.aspx/

Canon is No. 1 there, not Sony. I view Sony as a much weaker system than Nikon. Why would Nikon give that up?

ghostfox_1 · Jul 21, 2023

LennyLevino said:
In my opinion, Nikon makes the best glass in the world for the money. As a dual shooter of both Nikon and Canon, I believe that Nikon's Z glass is on a whole different level than Canon's mirrorless stuff.

I mostly agree. Canon makes some good lenses though too.

LennyLevino said:
But Nikon's market share is shrinking and they don't seem to have the resources or capabilities to keep up with either Canon or Sony.

They're doing better than fuji and oly, so...

LennyLevino said:
They don't make their own sensors anymore,

They haven't in forever, if they ever did?

LennyLevino said:
so they have to rely on Sony to provide them with what they need.

Yeah, it's calling outsourcing fabrication. Sony fab is not Sony imaging (or whatever the camera division is called).

LennyLevino said:
Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

No, the z8/9 are right there.

LennyLevino said:
Here is my proposition: Stop making cameras and focus on only making lenses.

Nah.

LennyLevino said:
Release them for Sony E mount at first, since it is an open mount that any manufacturer can freely make use of.

Why?

LennyLevino said:
This would make Sony's E mount the only viable alternative, and for Canon to stay in business, they would have to open their mount for Nikon lenses as well.

Or... Nikon is doing well enough to keep going, and can stick around.

LennyLevino said:
Sony and Canon has what, 85% of the market?

Not that high.

LennyLevino said:
So now Nikon can sell glass (which is where the money is in, anyway) to 100% of the market instead of their current 15%.

No thanks.

BasilG · Jul 21, 2023

LennyLevino said:
Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

If the AF on my Z8 is "miles behind" Canon and/or Sony, then I certainly do wonder what kinds of miracles those other cameras can perform.

Jerry_P_M · Jul 21, 2023

I agree, the Nikon glass is really good and my new 70-200 2.8 VR S is an amazing lens that I use on my equally amazing Z9.

I hope Nikon continues to make great cameras and lenses.

My work has me hiring sometimes as many as 7 extra photographers shooting Canon, Nikon, Sony, and even one Olympus.

None of them exhibit a clear advantage over my Z9.

Ellis Vener · Jul 21, 2023

LennyLevino said:
They don't make their own sensors anymore, so they have to rely on Sony to provide them with what they need.

Sony’s sensor division fabricates custom CMOS arrays for many companies, including Canon, Fuji, Nikon, PhaseOne, Hasselblad, Sigma, and Sony’s camera division -which is a separate company.

Nikon designs the sensor and hires Sony to fabricate it.

LennyLevino said:
Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

well you’re wrong there.

capanikon · Jul 21, 2023

Yeah it's typical to outsource production. I know car companies do this as well. Probably lots of industries.

I bet Nikon doesn't even mine their own ore for the gold and magnesium used in the cameras! I bet they just pay some other non-Nikon company to mine and process that ore! Man Nikon can't do ANYTHING entirely on their own!!!! XD

Jerry_P_M · Jul 21, 2023

Ellis Vener said:
Ellis Vener said:

They don't make their own sensors anymore, so they have to rely on Sony to provide them with what they need.

Click to expand...

Sony’s sensor division fabricates custom CMOS arrays for many companies, including Canon, Fuji, Nikon, PhaseOne, Hasselblad, Sigma, and Sony’s camera division -which is a separate company.

Nikon designs the sensor and hires Sony to fabricate it.

And builds the equipment they use to fabricate them.

Ellis Vener said:
Ellis Vener said:

Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

Click to expand...

well you’re wrong there.

Agreed!

I shoot horse shows. Mostly fast moving jumpers, and rarely miss a shot due to focus issues with my Z9, D850, and even my Z6II. Maybe other do have a better AF, but I have no issues with my newer Nikons.

John Ideal · Jul 21, 2023

So you've started another monotonous thread on Nikon vs Sony vs Canon and why shouldn't nikon hang it up. I'm going to risk banishment to ask you to stop. You have a z5 (and some nice canon gear) and you make pronouncement about the future of Nikon. You're obviously an expert on Nikon's future, but why don't you just stop?

michaeladawson · Jul 21, 2023

That is a horrible idea.

You expect Canon and Sony to give all the communication specs to Nikon so Nikon can take lens sales away from Sony and Canon? As a now 3rd party lens manufacturer, who now have no cameras for their own lenses, you really think Nikon will sell more lenses than they do now? You really think Canon and Sony shooters will buy Nikon lenses? You now want them to compete against Tamron, Sigma, Viltrox, Samyang, and the list goes on.

Second big reason for me is that I am never going to buy into the Sony or Canon brand. I'll go Fujifilm

shuncheung · Jul 21, 2023

LennyLevino said:
In my opinion, Nikon makes the best glass in the world for the money. As a dual shooter of both Nikon and Canon, I believe that Nikon's Z glass is on a whole different level than Canon's mirrorless stuff.

But Nikon's market share is shrinking and they don't seem to have the resources or capabilities to keep up with either Canon or Sony. They don't make their own sensors anymore, so they have to rely on Sony to provide them with what they need. Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

Here is my proposition: Stop making cameras and focus on only making lenses. Release them for Sony E mount at first, since it is an open mount that any manufacturer can freely make use of. This would make Sony's E mount the only viable alternative, and for Canon to stay in business, they would have to open their mount for Nikon lenses as well.

Sony and Canon has what, 85% of the market? So now Nikon can sell glass (which is where the money is in, anyway) to 100% of the market instead of their current 15%.

Sorry, your opening post is wrong on all fronts.

Nikon certainly makes great lenses, but so do Canon. A lot of companies can make great lenses today, including Sigma and Tamron. Some Sony lenses are great too, but they are slightly limited by the Sony E mount that was originally designed for APS-C only, but that is a separate issue.

I also wonder what makes you think that Canon and Sony will open their mounts to Nikon-brand lenses. Canon, for one, is filing law suits against some third-party lens manufacturers. If Nikon only makes lenses, I wonder whom they are going to sell those lenses to.

capanikon · Jul 21, 2023

If I were Sony, I'd just shut down the camera division and cede the market to Nikon, coz Nikon's gonna win all Sony's market share in the end, anyway. Why drag Sony's suffering out? Just end it now. XD

six34sigma · Jul 21, 2023

LennyLevino said:
In my opinion, Nikon makes the best glass in the world for the money. As a dual shooter of both Nikon and Canon, I believe that Nikon's Z glass is on a whole different level than Canon's mirrorless stuff.

But Nikon's market share is shrinking and they don't seem to have the resources or capabilities to keep up with either Canon or Sony. They don't make their own sensors anymore, so they have to rely on Sony to provide them with what they need. Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

Here is my proposition: Stop making cameras and focus on only making lenses. Release them for Sony E mount at first, since it is an open mount that any manufacturer can freely make use of. This would make Sony's E mount the only viable alternative, and for Canon to stay in business, they would have to open their mount for Nikon lenses as well.

Sony and Canon has what, 85% of the market? So now Nikon can sell glass (which is where the money is in, anyway) to 100% of the market instead of their current 15%.

To answer this directly NO!

The Z9 and Z8 are right up there. If you look at a balanced review - Steve Perrys comes to mind regarding Sony, (Canon not sure Canon was included), Nikon the win goes to Nikon although he does say that the AF from sony is a bit better. Its the system ..... Thom Hogan calls it like it is, read his stuff. Yes there are things Nikon can improve. The Z6 and Z7 are laggards with AF but the Z7 is a great camera for landscape work.

Nikon is profitable and they made that choice at the expense of market share deliberately.

Once again to state clearly NO Nikon should not only make lenses. They changed the throat size of the Z lenses to be bigger than others and previous F mount. That's not they could impose on other makers. The change in throat diameter made a difference regarding the quality of shots coming out of Nikon. It's the system.

NatureFiles · Jul 21, 2023

Just a troll seeking attention. Bye bye!

HyperCypher · Jul 21, 2023

RWN Photo · Jul 21, 2023

I think this is a good intro on how to make a YT video that generates a lot of traffic and makes you click bait money...

The next one in the series can be "Should Sony become a sensor manufacturer only?"

csn · Jul 21, 2023

The World would be a sad place without Nikon cameras. I say this as a life-long Nikon shooter. Aside from that, losing the continuity of that long history would be a loss to us all.

This is not to say that there is no room for deeper cooperation between manufacturers. I for one, would like to see an open lens mount standard. I also see possibilities in developing synergies by sharing/licensing technologies, especially in software. Other industries have figured this out. Why not the camera industry?

ericbowles · Jul 21, 2023

LennyLevino said:
In my opinion, Nikon makes the best glass in the world for the money. As a dual shooter of both Nikon and Canon, I believe that Nikon's Z glass is on a whole different level than Canon's mirrorless stuff.

But Nikon's market share is shrinking and they don't seem to have the resources or capabilities to keep up with either Canon or Sony. They don't make their own sensors anymore, so they have to rely on Sony to provide them with what they need. Their AF is miles behind the big two, and the gap will probably only grow larger with time.

Here is my proposition: Stop making cameras and focus on only making lenses. Release them for Sony E mount at first, since it is an open mount that any manufacturer can freely make use of. This would make Sony's E mount the only viable alternative, and for Canon to stay in business, they would have to open their mount for Nikon lenses as well.

Sony and Canon has what, 85% of the market? So now Nikon can sell glass (which is where the money is in, anyway) to 100% of the market instead of their current 15%.

Do you think Sony is making any profit at all on APS-C cameras? APS-C - mainly entry level - has declined 70%. The question is why anyone wants to be in that market. Smartphones have largely replaced entry level phones. Compact cameras have largely been discontinued. Entry level cameras are in decline, and the only economic model that works is to pair them with cheap lenses made in China.

And it's not just APS-C. Look at the 4/3 camera market. It's in decline and Olympus exited the market. OM continues - but we don't really know how that will work out longer term.

The market segments that is actually growing is the market where Nikon is concentrating - the enthusiast and professional market with mainly full frame and advanced APS-C. So far it has worked out pretty well. Nikon's strategy is to replace all of their entry level volume with enthusiast and professional cameras.

Should Nikon become a lens manufacturer only? (Controversial)

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