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Why no Update to RX100 VII?

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If had understood the true capabilities of the RX 100VII at the time of it's introduction, I wouldn't have been irritated by the high selling price.

As of today, I am sure that I would upgrade if there ever came a reasonable one.

--
May THE LIGHT be with you!
C U on https://dprevived.com/
 
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Kokopelli_Rocks said:
tbcass said:
abe4652 said:
It's been almost 4 years. I'm sure Sony could release a major improvement, and all of us folks who plunked down $1,000+ for a pocket A9 back in 2019 would go for it.
Click to expand...
I bought my RX100VII in the spring of 2021. I can't think of a single thing that could make it a better pocket-sized camera so why should Sony come out with a new model? What I want is an RX10V with the same AF capabilities as the 100VII and a fully articulating screen. Staying within the realm of possibility what improvements could be made to the RX100VII?
Click to expand...
That is what a Sony rep told me last year. I was at a conference and tole him I had an RX100III and asked about upgrading. He said if he was me he would get the V. I decided not to upgrade. I bought the III seven years ago for a family trip to Universal Orlando. I wanted a pocket camera that could fit in my Jeans pocket. with the case the III fits perfectly. I have used the cameras for a few other trips, but still see no reason to upgrade. In fact, I have not used the camera in so long I am not sure where it is.

I don't think Sony has done an update because they would probably have to raise the price to $1,500 and they probably have a hard time seeing a market at that price.
Click to expand...
That's a good point. It would be a hard sell to convince people to spend more money over the VII. What can it offer to most people to warrant the extra cost? Even the VII was a hard sell when it came to people upgrading from the VI.
 
Kokopelli_Rocks said:
tbcass said:
lomoapontaechuta said:
- A RX100 VII isn't cheap, even if you compare it with whatever you want to compare it.
Click to expand...
What someone considers cheap is relative. Considering its capabilities I find my RX100VII rather inexpensive. I think my RX10iv is a good value even though it costs $1700 due to its capabilities. All things considered, it is more capable than my FF camera and lenses which set me back $8000. Don't be fooled by the small size of the RX100VII. Just because something is small doesn't mean it isn't worth a lot of money.
Click to expand...
I fully agree. I think if you asked the average person on the street if they would consider spending over $1K on a camera, the vast majority would laugh.

I find it funny to be on the Canon, Nikon and Sony mirrorless camera forums and see the lack of price sensitivity. someone asks about a $500 lens and many respond they should buy a $3K lens instead. Like everyone naturally has $3K to spend on a lens.
Click to expand...
Those people also suggest buying a camera body over the 10iv while ignoring the fact that one has to buy a lens.
 
tbcass said:
Kokopelli_Rocks said:
tbcass said:
abe4652 said:
It's been almost 4 years. I'm sure Sony could release a major improvement, and all of us folks who plunked down $1,000+ for a pocket A9 back in 2019 would go for it.
Click to expand...
I bought my RX100VII in the spring of 2021. I can't think of a single thing that could make it a better pocket-sized camera so why should Sony come out with a new model? What I want is an RX10V with the same AF capabilities as the 100VII and a fully articulating screen. Staying within the realm of possibility what improvements could be made to the RX100VII?
Click to expand...
That is what a Sony rep told me last year. I was at a conference and tole him I had an RX100III and asked about upgrading. He said if he was me he would get the V. I decided not to upgrade. I bought the III seven years ago for a family trip to Universal Orlando. I wanted a pocket camera that could fit in my Jeans pocket. with the case the III fits perfectly. I have used the cameras for a few other trips, but still see no reason to upgrade. In fact, I have not used the camera in so long I am not sure where it is.

I don't think Sony has done an update because they would probably have to raise the price to $1,500 and they probably have a hard time seeing a market at that price.
Click to expand...
That's a good point. It would be a hard sell to convince people to spend more money over the VII. What can it offer to most people to warrant the extra cost? Even the VII was a hard sell when it came to people upgrading from the VI.
Click to expand...
 
tbcass said:
Kokopelli_Rocks said:
tbcass said:
lomoapontaechuta said:
- A RX100 VII isn't cheap, even if you compare it with whatever you want to compare it.
Click to expand...
What someone considers cheap is relative. Considering its capabilities I find my RX100VII rather inexpensive. I think my RX10iv is a good value even though it costs $1700 due to its capabilities. All things considered, it is more capable than my FF camera and lenses which set me back $8000. Don't be fooled by the small size of the RX100VII. Just because something is small doesn't mean it isn't worth a lot of money.
Click to expand...
I fully agree. I think if you asked the average person on the street if they would consider spending over $1K on a camera, the vast majority would laugh.

I find it funny to be on the Canon, Nikon and Sony mirrorless camera forums and see the lack of price sensitivity. someone asks about a $500 lens and many respond they should buy a $3K lens instead. Like everyone naturally has $3K to spend on a lens.
Click to expand...
Those people also suggest buying a camera body over the 10iv while ignoring the fact that one has to buy a lens.
Click to expand...
Or several, and mabe a flash, too.
 
Maxmolly7 said:
tbcass said:
That's a good point. It would be a hard sell to convince people to spend more money over the VII. What can it offer to most people to warrant the extra cost? Even the VII was a hard sell when it came to people upgrading from the VI.
Click to expand...
In my country, the price difference between VI and VII was rather small, so it was clear that I'd go for the VII.
Click to expand...
Same with me but I was upgrading from a 10-year-old M1, not from a VI. Not many people who already owned a VI felt the VII was worth the upgrade but the VII was worth buying if you did not own a VI.
Maxmolly7 said:
When I found a used one at a good price, I could even cut the price of the VI!

Contrary to you Tom, I can think of plenty possible improvements to justify an upgrade to a VIII!
Click to expand...
What is worth spending $1400 on if you already own a VI or VII?
 
tbcass said:
Maxmolly7 said:
tbcass said:
That's a good point. It would be a hard sell to convince people to spend more money over the VII. What can it offer to most people to warrant the extra cost? Even the VII was a hard sell when it came to people upgrading from the VI.
Click to expand...
In my country, the price difference between VI and VII was rather small, so it was clear that I'd go for the VII.
Click to expand...
Same with me but I was upgrading from a 10-year-old M1, not from a VI. Not many people who already owned a VI felt the VII was worth the upgrade but the VII was worth buying if you did not own a VI.
tbcass said:
When I found a used one at a good price, I could even cut the price of the VI!

Contrary to you Tom, I can think of plenty possible improvements to justify an upgrade to a VIII!
Click to expand...
What is worth spending $1400 on if you already own a VI or VII?
Click to expand...
 
Maxmolly7 said:
tbcass said:
Maxmolly7 said:
tbcass said:
That's a good point. It would be a hard sell to convince people to spend more money over the VII. What can it offer to most people to warrant the extra cost? Even the VII was a hard sell when it came to people upgrading from the VI.
Click to expand...
In my country, the price difference between VI and VII was rather small, so it was clear that I'd go for the VII.
Click to expand...
Same with me but I was upgrading from a 10-year-old M1, not from a VI. Not many people who already owned a VI felt the VII was worth the upgrade but the VII was worth buying if you did not own a VI.
Maxmolly7 said:
When I found a used one at a good price, I could even cut the price of the VI!

Contrary to you Tom, I can think of plenty possible improvements to justify an upgrade to a VIII!
Click to expand...
What is worth spending $1400 on if you already own a VI or VII?
Click to expand...
Possible improvements:
  • better AF, latest AF tracking, inkl. subject recognition
Click to expand...
Not sure if that's possible without the new AI subject detection chip and dual processor Bionz XR. Those won't fit in the small RX100 body.
Maxmolly7 said:
better dynamic range
Click to expand...
Probably not possible with the 20mp 1" sensor.
Maxmolly7 said:
  • latest UI
  • usable touch screen
Click to expand...
Those two need the power-hungry Bionz XR, which probably isn't compatible with the compact RX100 form factor and tiny battery. All the Sony cameras getting it use the much larger FZ100 battery.
Maxmolly7 said:
  • higher resolution for LCD and EVF
Click to expand...
Possible, but at the cost of an even shorter battery life and higher price.
Maxmolly7 said:
  • not sure if MPs can be bumped up?
Click to expand...
Not without losing dynamic range and low light performance. The RX100 pixels are already tiny.

So the only way to accommodate all these improvements would be to turn the RX100 into something more like the A6700 body. That's probably why the M7 is the end of the RX100 line. At best, there might be an M7A with USB-C and slightly updated software.
 
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Modifications:

1. remove built-in flash

2. put hot shoe back

3. better EVF with eyecup can fit hot shoe (Sony's is terrific, but tooooo expensive). Better fitting to prevent falling out.

4. provide a small hot shoe flash in the box like Panasonic does

5. optional Big Flash can be used in hot shoe for group shots which need to be taken from further away, thus more flash is often needed.

6. stereo mic port, for optional Stereo Mic fits hot shoe, or hot shoe has audio connections itself

7. LCD: fully articulating

8. body threads for alternate adapter tube for filters/conversion lenses. body threads so weight does not go on the telescoping lens.

9. change battery from small one in a pocket to a hunk of the right corner/side, just release it, change it, charge it. definitely can be bigger than the mini one now.

10. Fn Menu: no need to see an image on the lcd when making setting changes; use the entire lcd area for many more setting positions. My Oly does that, it's called the Super Control Panel: one button press changes screen to 23 settings.

11. Keep Fn menu visible, until you close it: so a few settings can be changed, then get out, back to shooting.

--
Elliott
 
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Maxmolly7 said:
In my country, the price difference between VI and VII was rather small, so it was clear that I'd go for the VII.
Click to expand...
In Australia at RX100M7 release the price of the M6 never dropped and the M7 was at AU$1899, about an AU$400 uplift on the M6 price.

At that time I had only owned the pair of M6 in the house for about 6 months and there were no improvements that made sense for me, so declined on that "update".

On pricing, the record low for the M7 was AU$1199 a couple of years back due to a store discount and added Sony cashback. The current Sony store price is AU$1689, and the M6 and M5A has disappeared altogether from stores and from Sony. The average Sydney store prices for the M7 are about AU$100 less than Sony. All Aussie prices include tax. All stores and Sony have the M7 as "out of stock" today.

I fully expect Sony to drop Cyber-shots altogether and leave that market to smartphones, they want people to buy their limited ability vlogging cameras or move to APS-C or FF system cameras.

Anyway, back to my behaviour.... Basically if something works for me already, then why update.

Hence my vintage 2018 RX100M6 pair still going strong, likewise my 2013 vintage Micro Four Thirds cameras do all that I need for that size camera, and also to carry it all around my 2000 vintage Subaru. All devices still work like they did when new. My 81 year old body works like it did new as well, lots of dribbling and crawling on the floor. :-)
 
elliottnewcomb said:
10. Fn Menu: no need to see an image on the lcd when making setting changes; use the entire lcd area for many more setting positions. My Oly does that, it's called the Super Control Panel: one button press changes screen to 23 settings.
Click to expand...
Yes the Olympus SCP makes a lot of sense.

In my case I have the 4 MySets (my own custom modes) assigned to the mode dial to replace the spots of iAuto/Art/Scene/PhotoStory which I have never used.

In use I simply twist the mode dial to get the setup I want and some dial twiddles to fine tune, then occasionally go to the SCP to change something, and only very rarely drop into the camera menu system to make changes.

Basically I made my Oly E-P5 easier to use than any point 'n' shoot but can easily drop into twiddling adjusts if I need.

With my RX100M6 I usually stick to A mode, mostly wide open for any focal length and don't fiddle much with settings and then use the raw file to get what I want.

My Oly E-P5 pair have new dial tops courtesy of a Brother tape printer that handles up to 24mm wide plastic labelling tape.

1/2/3/4/ are the four MySets.

1/2/3/4/ are the four MySets.
  • #1 is everyday out and about A mode, auto ISO up to 1600
  • #2 is when I dip into a dim museum or church and need to get the speeds up a bit, auto ISO to 6400. The excellent IBIS gives me up to 5 stops advantage so dim is usually not a problem.
  • #3 is when I can't see anything so any sort of noisy shot will do, auto ISO up to 25600. Raw file and DxO Photolab help out here.
  • #4 manual mode for flash use, ISO usually at 400 or 800 to help the flash.
Anyway back to the Sony forum, I fully expect that Sony is finished with Cyber-shots so I don't expect any further "improvements" and will probably pass if they do ever appear. Particularly will never buy a camera with a flip out sideways screen, as a screen only user that is a horror to use in the field. Tilt only for me.

The M6 does all I need when accompanying my Olympus with a wider lens. Oly covering "16-36mm" in a small snoot bag and the M6 covering "24-200mm" in a small belt pouch makes an excellent holiday kit. To go lighter, then of course only the M6.
 
jhorse said:
lomoapontaechuta said:
I think i'm not focusing too much in the negative, guts wise i have nothing to say about it.

I'm just saying RX100s could be the perfect camera, period. If only...

I simply don't get Sony and their thing to be ultra compact. The smaller form factor in the world

Just look to HX-50/60 bodies, they were decent, the following HXs not so much. now imagine a G5X body with the guts of a RX100.

It would go from being the queen of P&S to being the best cam in the world, period.

It would be beaten by larger sensors and better lens but the fact that one could carry it 24/7 365 days a year in a much comfortable way, decent handling.

It would be all the rest in their down period.
Click to expand...
Well, this view is a matter of opinion. I wanted a small and compact camera combined with good IQ, AF and an EVF (even if somewhat small). For my use case, as a camera in a ski jacket to have on me on the slopes, it was when I bought the IV, then the VA and now the VII the best option. I shall not add 'period' to my use case as it is not an absolute position, but merely a relative opinion of one person.

As an aside, I took the RX100VII to a high gaol polo match at the weekend (retrained race horses galloping at up to 25-30 MPH) instead of my normal camera/lens combo and the images it returned were impressive; pretty well every one was in focus. I hope to post a couple of examples at the weekend.
Click to expand...
Same as me, but i went in another direction where i did get what i was looking for, good IQ, and good EVF, an OK AF( two out of three). It's not the same thing as my Sony but there are times where the evf and the grip and the articulated screen makes up for that big time ( there are times when i go for a photo that otherwise i wouldn't go, simply as that.)
 
sybersitizen said:
lomoapontaechuta said:
I'm just saying RX100s could be the perfect camera, period. If only...

I simply don't get Sony and their thing to be ultra compact.
Click to expand...
I totally get Sony's thing to be 'ultra compact'. If the RX100M3 couldn't fit in my shirt pocket, I never would have bought it. I would have bought something else that does fit.
Click to expand...
You say that because ( most probably) you never had an HX50/60.

Cause if you had one, you would see that it has a better body than the following HX models and the RX models while fitting in a shirt or jeans pocket.
 
tbcass said:
lomoapontaechuta said:
tbcass said:
No ICL camera can compete with the RX10iv for single-lens convenience from 24-600mm equiv at any price. All the ICL choices require 2 lenses minimum and usually, that makes the choice as or more expensive than the RX10iv and a lot less convenient.
Click to expand...
You wanna bet?

My last vacations i took with me a 18-140mm lens, big mistake.

The only site i used 18-35 mm was in the caves, at a certain point we switched cameras to have more range ( even for close ups i'm a minimum focus distance abuser).

I said to my father, next year i will come better prepared.

This year i'm planning to bring with me just one lens, a 100-400 mm minimum.

and a second camera just in case
Click to expand...
You moved the goalpost. You have not demonstrated that any ICL can match the single lens convenience of the 24-600mm range of the RX10iv. While you might be able to be happy with 100-400 (150-600 on APS-C) I'll wager you are very rare in that regard.
Click to expand...
I would be very happy with a long prime.

And you would lose. I'm used to have 720 mm, i found that a 18-140 while a good lens i found it short, i have no problem in dropping 100 mm. My average from photos it's 210 mm, so...

One lens to walk around.

And my G5x for caves and village festivities.

(fun fact, last year i spent two months seeing lens and lens review, i couldn't make my mind, so i decided to go on vacations and see what i would miss the most, after my vacations, my mind was clear about what i need the most).

What i pointed out was it can be debatable, nothing more.

A DSLR or Mirrorless with a super zoom will have the same convenience.

Either type of camera will have something to sway us in a direction or another.

I started with compacts but wen faced with an much heavier and bulkier setup (being a bridge camera or a DSLR or a Mirrorless) i decided to go for a DSLR, bigger sensor not that big of a difference in bulk or weight ( i mean, i can't pocket either of them).

Other factor made me choose and invest in my DSLR, i can point and shoot immediately.

- i can keep it always on ( much better battery life).

- reliable and fast AF

- It's always on my last used focal length

without any delay or waiting to turn on. such things didn't exist at that time, even today those "features" aren't that common in Mirrorless or compact..

I became a fan of OVFs, i'm snappier with them. On the flip side, i don't have as much "support" as you probably have. killer AF, a bucket load of FPS and other killer features.

In the end, it's choices. As i'm getting older i'm seem to prefer comfort of shooting
 
lomoapontaechuta said:
sybersitizen said:
lomoapontaechuta said:
I'm just saying RX100s could be the perfect camera, period. If only...

I simply don't get Sony and their thing to be ultra compact.
Click to expand...
I totally get Sony's thing to be 'ultra compact'. If the RX100M3 couldn't fit in my shirt pocket, I never would have bought it. I would have bought something else that does fit.
Click to expand...
You say that because ( most probably) you never had an HX50/60.
Click to expand...
And I never will. Fixed rear screen, no EVF except as an add-on ... no, thank you. It would be like shooting with our old HX5 and HX9V again.
lomoapontaechuta said:
Cause if you had one, you would see that it has a better body than the following HX models and the RX models while fitting in a shirt or jeans pocket.
Click to expand...
We do have an HX90V in the family. Same body size, sensor size, and zoom range as the HX50/60 - plus a hinged rear screen and integrated EVF. It earns its keep, though the RX100M3 beats it in pretty much everything except long reach. They make a good pair for two people who travel together.
 
Last edited:
Maxmolly7 said:
tbcass said:
Maxmolly7 said:
tbcass said:
That's a good point. It would be a hard sell to convince people to spend more money over the VII. What can it offer to most people to warrant the extra cost? Even the VII was a hard sell when it came to people upgrading from the VI.
Click to expand...
In my country, the price difference between VI and VII was rather small, so it was clear that I'd go for the VII.
Click to expand...
Same with me but I was upgrading from a 10-year-old M1, not from a VI. Not many people who already owned a VI felt the VII was worth the upgrade but the VII was worth buying if you did not own a VI.
Maxmolly7 said:
When I found a used one at a good price, I could even cut the price of the VI!

Contrary to you Tom, I can think of plenty possible improvements to justify an upgrade to a VIII!
Click to expand...
What is worth spending $1400 on if you already own a VI or VII?
Click to expand...
Possible improvements:
  • better AF, latest AF tracking, inkl. subject recognition
Click to expand...
The VII is already top-of-the-line in that regard.
Maxmolly7 said:
  • better dynamic range
Click to expand...
It's already about as good as you can get from a 1" sensor.
Maxmolly7 said:
  • latest UI
Click to expand...
The VII has the latest UI.
Maxmolly7 said:
  • usable touch screen
  • higher resolution for LCD and EVF
  • not sure if MPs can be bumped up?
Click to expand...
20mp is about as good as you can get from a 1" sensor. So do you think that those 2 things are worth a premium price over the VII. I do not.
 
lomoapontaechuta said:
tbcass said:
lomoapontaechuta said:
tbcass said:
No ICL camera can compete with the RX10iv for single-lens convenience from 24-600mm equiv at any price. All the ICL choices require 2 lenses minimum and usually, that makes the choice as or more expensive than the RX10iv and a lot less convenient.
Click to expand...
You wanna bet?

My last vacations i took with me a 18-140mm lens, big mistake.

The only site i used 18-35 mm was in the caves, at a certain point we switched cameras to have more range ( even for close ups i'm a minimum focus distance abuser).

I said to my father, next year i will come better prepared.

This year i'm planning to bring with me just one lens, a 100-400 mm minimum.

and a second camera just in case
Click to expand...
You moved the goalpost. You have not demonstrated that any ICL can match the single lens convenience of the 24-600mm range of the RX10iv. While you might be able to be happy with 100-400 (150-600 on APS-C) I'll wager you are very rare in that regard.
Click to expand...
I would be very happy with a long prime.

And you would lose. I'm used to have 720 mm, i found that a 18-140 while a good lens i found it short, i have no problem in dropping 100 mm. My average from photos it's 210 mm, so...
Click to expand...
I said you were rare in that regard so I'll stick with that statement. You said average so you used many focal lengths below and above 210mm.
lomoapontaechuta said:
One lens to walk around.

And my G5x for caves and village festivities.
Click to expand...
No, I win. None of your ideas offer a single camera, single lens 24-600mm solution.
 
tbcass said:
Maxmolly7 said:
tbcass said:
Maxmolly7 said:
tbcass said:
That's a good point. It would be a hard sell to convince people to spend more money over the VII. What can it offer to most people to warrant the extra cost? Even the VII was a hard sell when it came to people upgrading from the VI.
Click to expand...
In my country, the price difference between VI and VII was rather small, so it was clear that I'd go for the VII.
Click to expand...
Same with me but I was upgrading from a 10-year-old M1, not from a VI. Not many people who already owned a VI felt the VII was worth the upgrade but the VII was worth buying if you did not own a VI.
tbcass said:
When I found a used one at a good price, I could even cut the price of the VI!

Contrary to you Tom, I can think of plenty possible improvements to justify an upgrade to a VIII!
Click to expand...
What is worth spending $1400 on if you already own a VI or VII?
Click to expand...
Possible improvements:
  • better AF, latest AF tracking, inkl. subject recognition
Click to expand...
The VII is already top-of-the-line in that regard.
Click to expand...
No, it's been left behind. The new A6700 is well ahead.
tbcass said:
tbcass said:
  • better dynamic range
Click to expand...
It's already about as good as you can get from a 1" sensor.
tbcass said:
  • latest UI
Click to expand...
The VII has the latest UI.
Click to expand...
No, it has the old UI and menus, dating from years ago. New Sony cameras have a different menu system that's much more popular.
tbcass said:
tbcass said:
  • usable touch screen
  • higher resolution for LCD and EVF
  • not sure if MPs can be bumped up?
Click to expand...
20mp is about as good as you can get from a 1" sensor. So do you think that those 2 things are worth a premium price over the VII. I do not.
Click to expand...
 
Digital Nigel said:
tbcass said:
Maxmolly7 said:
Possible improvements:
  • better AF, latest AF tracking, inkl. subject recognition
Click to expand...
The VII is already top-of-the-line in that regard.
Click to expand...
No, it's been left behind. The new A6700 is well ahead.
Click to expand...
If you actually owned an RX100VII you would realize the AF is so good and so reliable that any improvements that the 6700 has would be marginal at best. It's like the way IQ improvements have become. It's hard to see the improvements even if they are there. Because of that, any monetary investment in an upgrade would be hard to justify. My RX10iv has the same AF capabilities as your 100VI. The 100VII is much better. I never realized how much better until I bought one. It's enough that if an RX10V came out with the RX100VII AF I would buy one in a second.
Digital Nigel said:
Digital Nigel said:
Digital Nigel said:
  • better dynamic range
Click to expand...
It's already about as good as you can get from a 1" sensor.
Digital Nigel said:
  • latest UI
Click to expand...
The VII has the latest UI.
Click to expand...
No, it has the old UI and menus, dating from years ago. New Sony cameras have a different menu system that's much more popular.
Click to expand...
The UI of the RX100VII is a significant improvement over your 100VI and my 10IV. Again, any further improvement would not be enough to consider an upgrade.
 
Digital Nigel said:
travelinbri_74 said:
Instead of 24-200, I would love to see a 20-150 lens and the new AI AF.
Click to expand...
That's now phone camera territory. There won't be any new new compact cameras with such a zoom range.
Digital Nigel said:
I am also hoping for a new RX100 VIII. Would also love to see a medium format RX1 type w/a 28 or 35 lens...
Click to expand...
Maybe, but it won't be from Sony.
Click to expand...
It is phone territory, but not exactely as good. Phone cameras on that focal lenght have much smaller sensors, nothing near real 1" and, even with more advanced processing on the phones, that show on quality.

I would also prefer a bright 20-120mm with modern AF and processing. It would deliver what my phone does not deliver, past 24mm equivalent. And still fitting on the pocket.

But that said, yes, that will probably never exist. The bigger part of the market seem to have already decided it. Even if not technically consistent, sometimes.

-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/11117239@N08/
 
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