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Opinion - Ending the M a Mistake

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SkipJG said:
To give some perspective here, I used to have DSLRs, both Full-frame and AP-C. I had the requisite lenses for them. And I had several M cameras starting with the original M. My reason for the DSLRs was for action photography with the kids in school and their activities. I needed the faster focus and larger lens selection. When the kids graduated I sort of did as well. I sold all my big gear and gave my last M, an M5, to my daughter since she is into this stuff. I placated myself with better and better iPhones and a G5X Mark II.

I’ve recently wanted to get back into a larger camera, but have realized I no longer have the stomach for the bigger cameras and really, the bigger lenses. I guess I’ve gotten lazy? The iPhone and the G5XII are just a nice carry. Not having to carry a bag heavy with glass so to speak. That’s where the M, with its smaller lenses was really nice. I know, I know, the M lenses were not “L” quality and all that. But for their size, their convenience, they were pretty darn good.

I really don’t understand Canon pushing everyone to the R mount. I’m sure it has to do with money, but for the consumer it really strains I think. R lenses are amazingly expensive. The R cameras have gotten smaller but the R lenses are beasts, especially in dollar terms. It really makes adoption of the system a very expensive proposition.

I’ll probably end up getting a refurbished M6 Mark II. I hate buying into a dead end but I really don’t want to get an R body and then try to figure out how to justify those R lenses. I have to believe I’m not the only one that thinks this way. The M never seemed to recover from the original M introduction. And that’s too bad. Because when I look through my Lightroom at the M, M3, and M5 photos they were pretty darn good.

just wanted to rant a bit about the demise of what could have been…..
Click to expand...
The EFM mount was dead on arrival, sort of. Canon never supported it in a massive way, though they offered more than the basics. The EFM bodies had so much potential otherwise. The sensor on the M6Mii - which is almost the same as what's on the R7 - is top of the line in image quality.

I miss using my EFM combo, which is why I invested in the Sony A7C. It is the portability I prefer for travels. Yes I will be on the lookout for a pre-owned M6Mii. This legendary product won't die.
 
CamerEyes said:
SkipJG said:
To give some perspective here, I used to have DSLRs, both Full-frame and AP-C. I had the requisite lenses for them. And I had several M cameras starting with the original M. My reason for the DSLRs was for action photography with the kids in school and their activities. I needed the faster focus and larger lens selection. When the kids graduated I sort of did as well. I sold all my big gear and gave my last M, an M5, to my daughter since she is into this stuff. I placated myself with better and better iPhones and a G5X Mark II.

I’ve recently wanted to get back into a larger camera, but have realized I no longer have the stomach for the bigger cameras and really, the bigger lenses. I guess I’ve gotten lazy? The iPhone and the G5XII are just a nice carry. Not having to carry a bag heavy with glass so to speak. That’s where the M, with its smaller lenses was really nice. I know, I know, the M lenses were not “L” quality and all that. But for their size, their convenience, they were pretty darn good.

I really don’t understand Canon pushing everyone to the R mount. I’m sure it has to do with money, but for the consumer it really strains I think. R lenses are amazingly expensive. The R cameras have gotten smaller but the R lenses are beasts, especially in dollar terms. It really makes adoption of the system a very expensive proposition.

I’ll probably end up getting a refurbished M6 Mark II. I hate buying into a dead end but I really don’t want to get an R body and then try to figure out how to justify those R lenses. I have to believe I’m not the only one that thinks this way. The M never seemed to recover from the original M introduction. And that’s too bad. Because when I look through my Lightroom at the M, M3, and M5 photos they were pretty darn good.

just wanted to rant a bit about the demise of what could have been…..
Click to expand...
The EFM mount was dead on arrival, sort of. Canon never supported it in a massive way, though they offered more than the basics. The EFM bodies had so much potential otherwise. The sensor on the M6Mii - which is almost the same as what's on the R7 - is top of the line in image quality.
Click to expand...
+1 - as owner of both. R7 seems just a little sharper / crisper as pixel level.
CamerEyes said:
I miss using my EFM combo, which is why I invested in the Sony A7C. It is the portability I prefer for travels. Yes I will be on the lookout for a pre-owned M6Mii. This legendary product won't die.
Click to expand...
Keeping mine for what it does best - sold one but not the other and even kept a spare viewfinder. Brilliant with small lenses and if not needing the very latest eye tracking AF. just IMHO a bit too small for the great whites where I really do prefer R7.
 
CamerEyes said:
CamerEyes wrote:Yes I will be on the lookout for a pre-owned M6Mii. This legendary product won't die.
Click to expand...
Never stopped to consider the M6 II as becoming legendary… Maybe.
 
Yes, a very big mistake !

Can't be repeated enough.

--
- M
“I ain't afraid of no noise.”
 
Last edited:
R2D2 said:
M for Mobility said:
RLight said:
R2D2 said:
CamerEyes wrote:Yes I will be on the lookout for a pre-owned M6Mii. This legendary product won't die.
Click to expand...
Never stopped to consider the M6 II as becoming legendary… Maybe.
Click to expand...
Legendary it is ! 👍
Click to expand...
+100 Nothing else like it!

R2
Click to expand...
I went ahead and bought the Canon refurbished M6MII. I have to say, what an amazing camera! I went ahead and got a viewfinder off of MPB and I really like the setup. I was a little worried about the high pixel count sensor, but so far I am loving it. I’ve paired it with my old lenses and was able to score a good deal on the EFM 32mm and the EFM 18-150.



Going on a family trip next week out west so I’m excited to put the camera through its paces.
 
SkipJG said:
R2D2 said:
M for Mobility said:
RLight said:
SkipJG said:
CamerEyes wrote:Yes I will be on the lookout for a pre-owned M6Mii. This legendary product won't die.
Click to expand...
Never stopped to consider the M6 II as becoming legendary… Maybe.
Click to expand...
Legendary it is ! 👍
Click to expand...
+100 Nothing else like it!

R2
Click to expand...
I went ahead and bought the Canon refurbished M6MII. I have to say, what an amazing camera! I went ahead and got a viewfinder off of MPB and I really like the setup. I was a little worried about the high pixel count sensor, but so far I am loving it. I’ve paired it with my old lenses and was able to score a good deal on the EFM 32mm and the EFM 18-150.

Going on a family trip next week out west so I’m excited to put the camera through its paces.
Click to expand...
Congrats - good travel setup
 
You will love that set up. Just finished half day of shooting at a fourth of July music festival using 18-150 and the 32mm. I actually brought an EF 70-200 L with extender as a comparison, safe to say I put that away in less than 10 exposures, heavy, lots of attention even in a ultra public family events. The EFM set up yet worked perfectly and did not alert most subjects. remember to keep the super zoom a little away from the two ends of focal length to get better sharpness out of it!

PS: Met a few other photographers out there, some full frame gear some Sony APSC gears, really curious what they have got there!
 
Last edited:
I was the only one today with a camera at Bridal Cave in the Ozarks. 🤔
 
Yao Zhang said:
You will love that set up. Just finished half day of shooting at a fourth of July music festival using 18-150 and the 32mm. I actually brought an EF 70-200 L with extender as a comparison, safe to say I put that away in less than 10 exposures, heavy, lots of attention even in a ultra public family events. The EFM set up yet worked perfectly and did not alert most subjects. remember to keep the super zoom a little away from the two ends of focal length to get better sharpness out of it!

PS: Met a few other photographers out there, some full frame gear some Sony APSC gears, really curious what they have got there!
Click to expand...
Good advice on the 18-150. I appreciate it!

I have to say I’m really liking the 32mm quite a bit.



Your comments on the EF 70-200L (which I also have) ring true anymore. When the big lens comes out, the atmosphere changes! The EOS M system was a great compromise that sadly has been left behind by Canon. The RF lenses suffer the same issue of size. Not to mention obscene costs. Ultimately those size issues and cost drove me back to the M system to use while I can.
 
Maxmolly7 said:
I was the only one today with a camera at Bridal Cave in the Ozarks. 🤔
Click to expand...
Dedicated cameras are getting more rare. The smartphones are “good enough” for most people because most people look at photos on the smartphones. Or a tablet. The phones keep getting better, driven mostly by software, whereas the dedicated cameras cost a lot and struggle to show a potential new camera buyer the benefit.



to be honest, most photos I see or sent to me via smartphone are really bad. Even with the best smartphones. The smartphone users spray their shots. They really don’t care. Us, on forums like this, are a declining population. Unfortunately.



BUT, you had your camera out today and I imagine had a good time. And that is what it is all about.
 
SkipJG said:
Maxmolly7 said:
I was the only one today with a camera at Bridal Cave in the Ozarks. 🤔
Click to expand...
Dedicated cameras are getting more rare. The smartphones are “good enough” for most people because most people look at photos on the smartphones. Or a tablet. The phones keep getting better, driven mostly by software, whereas the dedicated cameras cost a lot and struggle to show a potential new camera buyer the benefit.

to be honest, most photos I see or sent to me via smartphone are really bad. Even with the best smartphones. The smartphone users spray their shots. They really don’t care. Us, on forums like this, are a declining population. Unfortunately.

BUT, you had your camera out today and I imagine had a good time. And that is what it is all about.
Click to expand...
Yes, I had a really good time and I hope to have a few keepers!
 
SkipJG said:
R2D2 said:
M for Mobility said:
RLight said:
SkipJG said:
CamerEyes wrote:Yes I will be on the lookout for a pre-owned M6Mii. This legendary product won't die.
Click to expand...
Never stopped to consider the M6 II as becoming legendary… Maybe.
Click to expand...
Legendary it is ! 👍
Click to expand...
+100 Nothing else like it!

R2
Click to expand...
I went ahead and bought the Canon refurbished M6MII. I have to say, what an amazing camera! I went ahead and got a viewfinder off of MPB and I really like the setup. I was a little worried about the high pixel count sensor, but so far I am loving it. I’ve paired it with my old lenses and was able to score a good deal on the EFM 32mm and the EFM 18-150.

Going on a family trip next week out west so I’m excited to put the camera through its paces.
Click to expand...
Big congrats! It'll be great at that next week.

Here's some leisure reading for you!

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4433968

Enjoy!

R2
 
My Canon M50 is the first interchangeable lens digital camera that I’ve purchased. I like that the camera & lenses are affordable. The R series cameras & especially lenses are way out of my price range.
 
. . .
SkipJG said:
I’ll probably end up getting a refurbished M6 Mark II. I hate buying into a dead end but I really don’t want to get an R body and then try to figure out how to justify those R lenses. I have to believe I’m not the only one that thinks this way. The M never seemed to recover from the original M introduction. And that’s too bad. Because when I look through my Lightroom at the M, M3, and M5 photos they were pretty darn good.

just wanted to rant a bit about the demise of what could have been…..
Click to expand...
If you buy an M6 Mk.II, are happy with it and a selection of more affordable M lenses, you'll have the makings of years of enjoyable photography. There's no real dead end unless you wear your M gear out or get your heart set on some lens not made for it or adaptable to it.

You're right about the M system's high IQ, and that is not going away, whether Canon makes any more M gear or not. I don't know how great an enlargement one would have to have made to show an obvious, marked IQ improvement from full-frame R gear over M gear. I have a hunch, though, that it's more than you (or I, LOL) would be willing to pay for since for you, as for me, this is a hobby and not a career.

I think what one must reconcile is being comfortable using gear that's not the latest and not what all the buzz is about. If you're going to feel left out, like being out with the out crowd instead of in with the in crowd, start saving up for some latest-thing R gear. Just keep in mind that even within the R sphere, the latest thing only has that status for two or three years. Then you're back on out-crowd status unless you ante up even more for the latest.

As I write this, over to the right on my screen there's a "Most Popular Cameras" list of 10 items. Not an M camera among them. Topping the list at a breathtaking 3.6% is the brand new Canon R8 — the latest! I'm trying to recall when the M6 MkII was at or near the top of the list. Doesn't seem that long ago.

And so it goes.
 
SW Anderson said:
. . .
SW Anderson said:
I’ll probably end up getting a refurbished M6 Mark II. I hate buying into a dead end but I really don’t want to get an R body and then try to figure out how to justify those R lenses. I have to believe I’m not the only one that thinks this way. The M never seemed to recover from the original M introduction. And that’s too bad. Because when I look through my Lightroom at the M, M3, and M5 photos they were pretty darn good.

just wanted to rant a bit about the demise of what could have been…..
Click to expand...
If you buy an M6 Mk.II, are happy with it and a selection of more affordable M lenses, you'll have the makings of years of enjoyable photography. There's no real dead end unless you wear your M gear out or get your heart set on some lens not made for it or adaptable to it.

You're right about the M system's high IQ, and that is not going away, whether Canon makes any more M gear or not. I don't know how great an enlargement one would have to have made to show an obvious, marked IQ improvement from full-frame R gear over M gear. I have a hunch, though, that it's more than you (or I, LOL) would be willing to pay for since for you, as for me, this is a hobby and not a career.

I think what one must reconcile is being comfortable using gear that's not the latest and not what all the buzz is about. If you're going to feel left out, like being out with the out crowd instead of in with the in crowd, start saving up for some latest-thing R gear. Just keep in mind that even within the R sphere, the latest thing only has that status for two or three years. Then you're back on out-crowd status unless you ante up even more for the latest.

As I write this, over to the right on my screen there's a "Most Popular Cameras" list of 10 items. Not an M camera among them. Topping the list at a breathtaking 3.6% is the brand new Canon R8 — the latest! I'm trying to recall when the M6 MkII was at or near the top of the list. Doesn't seem that long ago.

And so it goes.
Click to expand...
Good answer.

There is a bigger difference between M and R image quality if you shoot JPG, the newer cameras, especially full frame, have better JPG processing especially for higher ISOs.

If however, you shoot RAW and can process with some of the latest and greatest image processing sofiware with modern denoise, such as DxO PhotoLab or Pure RAW, or Topaz denoise, you can get some spectacular performance from the M cameras, especially the 32 MP M6ii at high ISOs.

I'm able to shoot up to ISO ISO 8000 and even beyond and get very good IQ with essentially little to no noise, in extremely low light with the M6ii and my fast lenses, and feel no need or advantage for my shooting to going full-frame or R. The set of APSC f1.4 primes available in Native EF-M mount (that are not available in RF-S mount) make the gap between M APSC and R full-frame relatively small these days.
 
SW Anderson said:
As I write this, over to the right on my screen there's a "Most Popular Cameras" list of 10 items. Not an M camera among them. Topping the list at a breathtaking 3.6% is the brand new Canon R8 — the latest! I'm trying to recall when the M6 MkII was at or near the top of the list. Doesn't seem that long ago.
Click to expand...
The Top 10 ranking on the side of he page is relatively meaningless and has zero correlation to actual sales. According to DPReview it tracks "Interchangeable Lens Cameras receiving the most views in reviews and previews in the last 5 days." It is simply an indication of website traffic, and by its very nature, would be highly biased towards anything new.
 
nnowak said:
SW Anderson said:
As I write this, over to the right on my screen there's a "Most Popular Cameras" list of 10 items. Not an M camera among them. Topping the list at a breathtaking 3.6% is the brand new Canon R8 — the latest! I'm trying to recall when the M6 MkII was at or near the top of the list. Doesn't seem that long ago.
Click to expand...
The Top 10 ranking on the side of he page is relatively meaningless and has zero correlation to actual sales. According to DPReview it tracks "Interchangeable Lens Cameras receiving the most views in reviews and previews in the last 5 days." It is simply an indication of website traffic, and by its very nature, would be highly biased towards anything new.
Click to expand...
Yes, an indication of Web site traffic, of curiosity and interest. A component of the buzz that can reflect and also help create an atmosphere that cameras high on the list are where it's at. And in doing that create an atmosphere that cameras once but no longer on the list are where it was, but no longer is, at.

You find this relatively meaningless. I suspect those involved in marketing and sales of the R8 and other cameras high on the list consider it meaningful in a most gratifying and encouraging way.
 
Your M6ii high ISO experience is very different from mine. I find the noise from my M6ii essentially unusable at ISO 1600 and up, certainly for human or animal subjects. Some landscapes and more abstract scenes have been rescuable with denoising. Even some of my ISO 200 shots daylight landscape shots have bizarre levels of noise (like, immediately visible from across the room when I hope the shot on Lightroom, not even pixel peeping). It's much worse than my other two cameras.

I still enjoy the size of the camera and the control layout. The prime lenses are great in general but especially because of their size. But for all of that, the sensor noise has really put me off using the M6ii for anything I might want to print (i.e. every situation I really care about).
 
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