On1 Photo Keyword AI 2023

Ade60 · Jun 30, 2023

Has any one used or is using this new software from On1.

It looks to me like Adobe Bridge type of App without the Ai.

I wondered if anyone could offer any views on it and whether it’s worth having a look at.

sybersitizen · Jul 1, 2023

Ade60 said:
I wondered if anyone could offer any views on it and whether it’s worth having a look at.

I didn't know it existed. I've been looking at a number of tools that perform autotagging based on image content, and also face recognition. I have a huge photo collection that has never had any tagging, so a manual approach to doing it would be very painful.

That product does autotagging, but it appears to only detect the presence of faces, not identify and name them to allow searching for specific people or combinations of people, so it's too limited for my interest.

bmoag · Jul 1, 2023

I've tried two DAM "AI" programs.

The On1 product seems brain dead for something that's supposed to use AI, but the first iteration of an On1 product seldom delivers what it promises. It seems to make little sense to sell a separate DAM program because On1 RAW is a DAM program, but On1 has made many unusual marketing decisions.

The second DAM program is Excire, from a German company. It has promise, it can recognize faces from images in its database, but I found its current state to be frustrating, poorly documented and the GUI poorly designed. Excire is worth the free trial to see a glimpse of what could be possible, whether or not its worth $100 in its current state is up to you.

In any event I think its likely Adobe will bring AI sorting to Lightroom. That might actually get me to use LR if Adobe continues its AI winning streak.

_vlad · Jul 1, 2023

Ade60 said:
Has any one used or is using this new software from On1.

It looks to me like Adobe Bridge type of App without the Ai.

I wondered if anyone could offer any views on it and whether it’s worth having a look at.

I tried ON1 RAW and Excire so far. Got Excire in special offer for 30EUR.

ON1 DAM is very slow for big number of photos - it might take literally several DAYS to finish the job (it works in the background and first assignments of AI keywording - that is for 100 000 photos on my reasonably fast PC). And for effective use, they should be catalogued. Creating such a huge catalogue is really RAM eater - and is better to avoid. AFAIK separate plug-in works in the same way. It misses some important features like "finding similar faces" which holds me back from using it. Speed and HW demands are another factors which limit me from more extensive use.

Excire suits me much better - it is fast and has some really nice features (among others - above mentioned "finding similar faces") but lacks some other - like selecting multiple search criteria stacked over each other + selecting if they are used with either "or" or "and" operator. However the biggest problem for me is workflow with ON1 RAW i.e. find photos in Excire, send them to ON1 RAW and returning back to Excire. Not to mention that Excire and ON1 use different internal databases and one must be carefull to embed/read data from those to XMP files whenever switching between ExC and ON1.

Ade60 · Jul 1, 2023

_vlad said:
Ade60 said:

Has any one used or is using this new software from On1.

It looks to me like Adobe Bridge type of App without the Ai.

I wondered if anyone could offer any views on it and whether it’s worth having a look at.

Click to expand...

I tried ON1 RAW and Excire so far. Got Excire in special offer for 30EUR.

ON1 DAM is very slow for big number of photos - it might take literally several DAYS to finish the job (it works in the background and first assignments of AI keywording - that is for 100 000 photos on my reasonably fast PC). And for effective use, they should be catalogued. Creating such a huge catalogue is really RAM eater - and is better to avoid. AFAIK separate plug-in works in the same way. It misses some important features like "finding similar faces" which holds me back from using it. Speed and HW demands are another factors which limit me from more extensive use.

Excire suits me much better - it is fast and has some really nice features (among others - above mentioned "finding similar faces") but lacks some other - like selecting multiple search criteria stacked over each other + selecting if they are used with either "or" or "and" operator. However the biggest problem for me is workflow with ON1 RAW i.e. find photos in Excire, send them to ON1 RAW and returning back to Excire. Not to mention that Excire and ON1 use different internal databases and one must be carefull to embed/read data from those to XMP files whenever switching between ExC and ON1.

Thanks for the info

Are you talking about the new standalone ON1Photo keyword App or the ON1 RAW App or are they both the same regarding what they can do as far as a DAM etc.

I have downloaded the 30 day free trial of Keyword 2023 so will see how I get on with it.

There is also an offer for £38 at the moment but do I just want it rather than need it

michaeladawson · Jul 2, 2023

sybersitizen said:
Ade60 said:

I wondered if anyone could offer any views on it and whether it’s worth having a look at.

Click to expand...

I didn't know it existed. I've been looking at a number of tools that perform autotagging based on image content, and also face recognition. I have a huge photo collection that has never had any tagging, so a manual approach to doing it would be very painful.

That product does autotagging, but it appears to only detect the presence of faces, not identify and name them to allow searching for specific people or combinations of people, so it's too limited for my interest.

I don't know of a good tagging tool that does everything. If you're a Lightroom user there is a face recognition feature that will automatically identify faces and tag them with the name of the person. I used to use it a lot about 5 or 6 years ago. Wasn't perfect but it worked pretty well. I'm not sure if Adobe has improved it since.

michaeladawson · Jul 2, 2023

bmoag said:
I've tried two DAM "AI" programs.

The On1 product seems brain dead for something that's supposed to use AI, but the first iteration of an On1 product seldom delivers what it promises. It seems to make little sense to sell a separate DAM program because On1 RAW is a DAM program, but On1 has made many unusual marketing decisions.

But Photo Keyword AI IS included in On1 Photo Raw. So it makes perfect sense. They have spun off a few of their modules as separate standalone apps for those that don't want to buy Photo Raw. Another module like that is their Resize AI tool. It comes as part of Photo Raw but you can buy it as a standalone as well.

_vlad · Jul 2, 2023

Ade60 said:
_vlad said:

Ade60 said:

Has any one used or is using this new software from On1.

It looks to me like Adobe Bridge type of App without the Ai.

I wondered if anyone could offer any views on it and whether it’s worth having a look at.

Click to expand...

I tried ON1 RAW and Excire so far. Got Excire in special offer for 30EUR.

ON1 DAM is very slow for big number of photos - it might take literally several DAYS to finish the job (it works in the background and first assignments of AI keywording - that is for 100 000 photos on my reasonably fast PC). And for effective use, they should be catalogued. Creating such a huge catalogue is really RAM eater - and is better to avoid. AFAIK separate plug-in works in the same way. It misses some important features like "finding similar faces" which holds me back from using it. Speed and HW demands are another factors which limit me from more extensive use.

Excire suits me much better - it is fast and has some really nice features (among others - above mentioned "finding similar faces") but lacks some other - like selecting multiple search criteria stacked over each other + selecting if they are used with either "or" or "and" operator. However the biggest problem for me is workflow with ON1 RAW i.e. find photos in Excire, send them to ON1 RAW and returning back to Excire. Not to mention that Excire and ON1 use different internal databases and one must be carefull to embed/read data from those to XMP files whenever switching between ExC and ON1.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info

Are you talking about the new standalone ON1Photo keyword App or the ON1 RAW App or are they both the same regarding what they can do as far as a DAM etc.

I have downloaded the 30 day free trial of Keyword 2023 so will see how I get on with it.

There is also an offer for £38 at the moment but do I just want it rather than need it

I talk about ON1 RAW, but AFAIK - based on info from ON1 - they are same. Keyword AI is offered as plugin for non ON1 RAW users.

TrevorM · Jul 3, 2023

Hi,

To Ade60

I'm just trying the trial version of Excire and finding it better than ON1 Keyword AI so far. I think £99 full price is quite expensive - is your code for £38 freely available or is it personal to you?

Thanks,

Trevor

Ade60 · Jul 3, 2023

TrevorM said:
Hi,

To Ade60

I'm just trying the trial version of Excire and finding it better than ON1 Keyword AI so far. I think £99 full price is quite expensive - is your code for £38 freely available or is it personal to you?

Thanks,

Trevor

Hi Trevor,

I received the offer via Email from ON1

I have just looked at the On1 website and here is a link to the introductory offer of £39.12p

Hope this is of some help.

https://www.on1.com/products/photo-...MIg7i168ny_wIVWcTtCh3NkAAFEAAYASAAEgJQOPD_BwE

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/adecoleman/

TrevorM · Jul 3, 2023

Hi,

thanks for replying. I got confused, I thought your offer was for Excire - my bad. I have On! Keyword AI as part of my subscription and it keeps falling over whilst keywording my images. Thought I would try Excire; currently running trial version and it seems OK so far but not keywording as accurately as I would like. A simple example, 2 images both taken at the same time with a lot of beach showing but only one has keyword "sand". Will look for an offer on Excire as £99 seems a little steep.

Thank again,

Trevor

TrevorM · Jul 3, 2023

Message for vlad:

Hi,

I see you mentioned that you had an offer price of 30 euros for Excire - is this offer/code freely available or a personal offer to you from Excire?

Many thanks,

Trevor

Ade60 · Jul 3, 2023

TrevorM said:
Hi,

thanks for replying. I got confused, I thought your offer was for Excire - my bad. I have On! Keyword AI as part of my subscription and it keeps falling over whilst keywording my images. Thought I would try Excire; currently running trial version and it seems OK so far but not keywording as accurately as I would like. A simple example, 2 images both taken at the same time with a lot of beach showing but only one has keyword "sand". Will look for an offer on Excire as £99 seems a little steep.

Thank again,

Trevor

No problem.

Seeing as you have ON1 photo keyword AI as part of your subscription ids there any difference between what you have and the new Standalone 2023 version.

I had a look on the Excire site and like you say it's a little steep at £99 but if it is going to do everything you require it to.

Regards Adrian

TrevorM · Jul 3, 2023

Hi,

from what I've read, the standalone version is more "advanced" (more AI capability) than that currently built into PhotoRaw. However, I understand that the next update to PhotoRaw 2023 will include all of the benefits of the current standalone version.

Regards,

Trevor

bastibe · Jul 3, 2023

I tried ON1 photo keyword AI, but all it recognized was vapid stuff like "vivid", or "square". The UI is really strange, I'd have expected a big colorful button for generating keywords, but it seems almost hidden? Am I doing something wrong?

Ade60 · Jul 3, 2023

bastibe said:
I tried ON1 photo keyword AI, but all it recognized was vapid stuff like "vivid", or "square". The UI is really strange, I'd have expected a big colorful button for generating keywords, but it seems almost hidden? Am I doing something wrong?

I don't think it is you doing something wrong.

There were a few posts on the ON1 forum saying about the keywording only picking up words like Vivid,Square,Low Key,

Then last week there was an update and it now seems to pick quite a few more keywords but i'm finding it very hit and miss. For an example here are the Keyword suggestions it picked for a Marbled White Butterfly

302bba068dcf4704bd547d74402d5183.jpg.png

--

adecoleman

Explore adecoleman’s 1,067 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

sybersitizen · Jul 3, 2023

michaeladawson said:
sybersitizen said:

Ade60 said:

I wondered if anyone could offer any views on it and whether it’s worth having a look at.

Click to expand...

I didn't know it existed. I've been looking at a number of tools that perform autotagging based on image content, and also face recognition. I have a huge photo collection that has never had any tagging, so a manual approach to doing it would be very painful.

That product does autotagging, but it appears to only detect the presence of faces, not identify and name them to allow searching for specific people or combinations of people, so it's too limited for my interest.

Click to expand...

I don't know of a good tagging tool that does everything.

I know of one that comes closer to doing everything than anything else I've seen: IMatch.

michaeladawson said:
If you're a Lightroom user there is a face recognition feature that will automatically identify faces and tag them with the name of the person. I used to use it a lot about 5 or 6 years ago. Wasn't perfect but it worked pretty well. I'm not sure if Adobe has improved it since.

I'm not a Lightroom user, so that won't make my short list. Excire, which I've tried, won't either, and that's unfortunate. Its tagging and face recognition are fine, but when it comes to searching, the options are too limited.

IMatch handles face recognition and names very well, and that's one of its main draws. It also offers choices among five different analysis engines for general subject tagging (some of them are good for my purposes; others aren't). But its robust organizational aspects really set it apart from the competition. It can be endlessly customized. I think of it as a user-programmable development platform for digital asset management. However, the cost of that flexibility is a lot of time spent studying the documentation and experimenting.

_vlad · Jul 3, 2023

TrevorM said:
Message for vlad:

Hi,

I see you mentioned that you had an offer price of 30 euros for Excire - is this offer/code freely available or a personal offer to you from Excire?

Many thanks,

Trevor

I checked in my records when I bought it - 27.Feb.2023 - 29EUR.
Firstly I thought it was related to BlackFriday - now it is clear it must have been kind of coupon. Found somewhere on the WEB.

bastibe · Jul 3, 2023

Ade60 said:
bastibe said:

I tried ON1 photo keyword AI, but all it recognized was vapid stuff like "vivid", or "square". The UI is really strange, I'd have expected a big colorful button for generating keywords, but it seems almost hidden? Am I doing something wrong?

Click to expand...

I don't think it is you doing something wrong.

There were a few posts on the ON1 forum saying about the keywording only picking up words like Vivid,Square,Low Key,

Then last week there was an update and it now seems to pick quite a few more keywords but i'm finding it very hit and miss. For an example here are the Keyword suggestions it picked for a Marbled White Butterfly

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/adecoleman/

Good to know, thank you!

TrevorM · Jul 4, 2023

Hi Vlad, thanks for replying.

Kind regards

Trevor

On1 Photo Keyword AI 2023

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