Why are Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop starting to use the GPU more than in the past?

I don't know how to count these 'efficiency' cores from Intel and Apple. It's bad enough you have to upgrade to Win 11 just to make sane use of them.
Search for "Windows 11 core scheduler".

Do I really understand that? No.
The scheduler is a fundamental component of the operating system, though in a world where one user gets double digit cores, maybe not so critical as it was in the past where 100 users might be sharing a single unix system to do work.

If you have 20 jobs to run and a single core, how do you share the resource? Do you do a primitive everyone gets the cpu for 1/20th of a second routine? Context shifting is expensive. But letting one job run to completion can be upsetting to the other 19 jobs.

Lots of cores means a lot less waiting, but you want related jobs to be on the same core/cache part of the cpu so the latencies for memory fetches is lower.

And now this introduction of unequal cores makes the optimal scheduling even more difficult. The end result - the Intel 12/13 gen cpus look much more impressive on Windows 11. If you're on 10, I think the AMDs are still the clearer choice, esp when you add the power considerations in. And if you're on alternate OSs (vmware, for ex), you might be waiting for software updates, much like the Apple M1 users had been for a while.
 
it's definitely working out for them. Is it for us? That's the real question.
Each to their own, but it does work out for me.

I pay £9.98 a month UK including tax for Photoshop and Lightroom.

In times BC (Before CC) I had bought Lightroom and Photoshop (and remember how hideously expensive Photoshop was, unless you could get an eductional licence, in which case it was just expensive). I upgraded Lightroom every new release, and Photoshop every 2 or 3 releases (when you could do that).

When I did the sums (I don't have the numbers to hand now), at the rate of major releases, the annualised cost of updates to LR and PS was about the same as the subscription. The frequency of major releases to LR and PS is if anything faster than before CC (and I get every release, not just every 2 or 3 for PS).

I appreciate that if you rarely if ever bought upgrades to LR or PS then subscription is not so great.
The fundamental risk is that subscriptions remove the incentive of the vendor to improve the product. The users are locked in, and increasingly prone to a sunk cost fallacy that keeps them paying.

Prior to that, when Adobe released CS4, 5, 6, they needed to sell the new features to get you to upgrade. And many of us did the every other update schedule, or even further out until they became more restrictive about updates.

The upgrade model is less attractive to Adobe, because the cash flow trickles to a fault and then, if successful, they make a lot of revenue. So in an ideal world, the even cash flow lets them be more productive and everyone wins.

But back in the real world, Verizon buys AOL because hundreds of thousands of idiots were still autopaying monthly for dial up service. And for the first few years of subscription, Adobe wasn't doing much better.

For Adobe now, I think the value is highest for commercial or serious users that make use of the new features. But a large component are 'dumb' users that have been using the common functions that date back to the 90s. Other that updated RAW support, are they getting much new?
 
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I wonder if anyone in the US is still paying rental fees for old rotary dial phones?

Years ago, any number of elderly widows were paying TPC (the phone company) a tidy sum to rent the phones they'd had for years. If memory serves (unlikely), decent touchtone phones were available for something like a month's rental fee.

Some abuses only die out with the generation of victims.

My Comcast bill probably marks me as one of the boomer generation's suckers.
 
it's definitely working out for them. Is it for us? That's the real question.
Each to their own, but it does work out for me.

I pay £9.98 a month UK including tax for Photoshop and Lightroom.

In times BC (Before CC) I had bought Lightroom and Photoshop (and remember how hideously expensive Photoshop was, unless you could get an eductional licence, in which case it was just expensive). I upgraded Lightroom every new release, and Photoshop every 2 or 3 releases (when you could do that).

When I did the sums (I don't have the numbers to hand now), at the rate of major releases, the annualised cost of updates to LR and PS was about the same as the subscription. The frequency of major releases to LR and PS is if anything faster than before CC (and I get every release, not just every 2 or 3 for PS).

I appreciate that if you rarely if ever bought upgrades to LR or PS then subscription is not so great.
The fundamental risk is that subscriptions remove the incentive of the vendor to improve the product.
I quite agree with that, and I did wonder if that would happen. In the event, I don't think it has. It's perhaps competition from DxO, Topaz etc have kept Adobe honest.

Before CC, Lightroom major releases were 18-24 months apart (LR3 to LR4 was over 2 years gap). Now they are much more frequent.
The users are locked in, and increasingly prone to a sunk cost fallacy that keeps them paying.
I don't think it's sunk cost fallacy, but rather that you have to pay to keep using the software, irrespective of sunk cost, but I get your point!
Prior to that, when Adobe released CS4, 5, 6, they needed to sell the new features to get you to upgrade. And many of us did the every other update schedule, or even further out until they became more restrictive about updates.

The upgrade model is less attractive to Adobe, because the cash flow trickles to a fault and then, if successful, they make a lot of revenue. So in an ideal world, the even cash flow lets them be more productive and everyone wins.

But back in the real world, Verizon buys AOL because hundreds of thousands of idiots were still autopaying monthly for dial up service. And for the first few years of subscription, Adobe wasn't doing much better.

For Adobe now, I think the value is highest for commercial or serious users that make use of the new features. But a large component are 'dumb' users that have been using the common functions that date back to the 90s. Other that updated RAW support, are they getting much new?
I don't regard myself as an especially power user, but many of the recent features of LR I use on a significant proportion of my images, especially masking. The new AI denoise gives me at least another stop of high ISO.

I share the dislike of subscription software, and I certainly don't criticise those that won't sign up on principle. I can only say that for me, financially it's worked. Will they stop innovating? Will they jack the price up? Who knows, but for now I hold my nose and pay each month.
 
My Comcast bill probably marks me as one of the boomer generation's suckers.
with both Xfinity and their cable service, it is imperative to reup every few years or you will likely be paying a 20-40/month 'tax.'

Directv was really hard to evict, and they did some dirty pool and refused to undo inappropriate charges, so I'm probably not welcome back there again. But never would. I try to stick to streaming services that can be cancelled with the click of a button.
 
I share the dislike of subscription software, and I certainly don't criticise those that won't sign up on principle. I can only say that for me, financially it's worked. Will they stop innovating? Will they jack the price up? Who knows, but for now I hold my nose and pay each month.
same here - $10 is not terrible, and is reasonable value. it's harder to justify $50 to get the collection just to get Premiere, when there is strong competition out there. Easy sell for employers, but not to hobbyists.
 
it's definitely working out for them. Is it for us? That's the real question.
Each to their own, but it does work out for me.

I pay £9.98 a month UK including tax for Photoshop and Lightroom.

In times BC (Before CC) I had bought Lightroom and Photoshop (and remember how hideously expensive Photoshop was, unless you could get an eductional licence, in which case it was just expensive). I upgraded Lightroom every new release, and Photoshop every 2 or 3 releases (when you could do that).

When I did the sums (I don't have the numbers to hand now), at the rate of major releases, the annualised cost of updates to LR and PS was about the same as the subscription. The frequency of major releases to LR and PS is if anything faster than before CC (and I get every release, not just every 2 or 3 for PS).

I appreciate that if you rarely if ever bought upgrades to LR or PS then subscription is not so great.
The fundamental risk is that subscriptions remove the incentive of the vendor to improve the product. The users are locked in, and increasingly prone to a sunk cost fallacy that keeps them paying.

Prior to that, when Adobe released CS4, 5, 6, they needed to sell the new features to get you to upgrade. And many of us did the every other update schedule, or even further out until they became more restrictive about updates.

The upgrade model is less attractive to Adobe, because the cash flow trickles to a fault and then, if successful, they make a lot of revenue. So in an ideal world, the even cash flow lets them be more productive and everyone wins.

But back in the real world, Verizon buys AOL because hundreds of thousands of idiots were still autopaying monthly for dial up service. And for the first few years of subscription, Adobe wasn't doing much better.

For Adobe now, I think the value is highest for commercial or serious users that make use of the new features. But a large component are 'dumb' users that have been using the common functions that date back to the 90s. Other that updated RAW support, are they getting much new?
Absolutely yes. The upgrades in the last few years gave been astounding.
 
Continuing to use old, outdated, and no longer updated software has a lot in common with buying a car and driving it into the ground. At some point you are getting diminishing returns, and then actually start to suffer just to save a few bucks.
At some point the car analogy breaks down when comparing with computer systems. I've been programming/using computer systems for over 40 years. I use a few programs that are difficult, or expensive, to replace. One example is I have a copy of Adobe InDesign that has a perpetual license that I don't use too often but I do really need to use it sometimes. My copy of InDesign was upgraded several times, starting from PageMaker after Adobe absorbed it. I don't think I'd have much luck installing that on a fresh copy of Win 10/11. (I'm not sure if I even have everything in the upgrade chain anymore.) I really, really, don't want to have to subscribe to the expensive-per-month Adobe plan that includes InDesign.

I have other several old programs that have similar concerns. Or were custom programmed using tools that have no modern replacements. One solution would be to set my Win 7 machine aside and only use it for the legacy programs. But then I'd have to get an all new machine that can support a Tensor GPU to run Win 10/11 and continue with my cheap ACR/Photoshop subscription. From other discussions in this thread, it doesn't look like I can cheap out with one my my refurb Dell 9020 Win 10 machines with a max 290 watt power supply.

Wayne
 
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Continuing to use old, outdated, and no longer updated software has a lot in common with buying a car and driving it into the ground. At some point you are getting diminishing returns, and then actually start to suffer just to save a few bucks.
At some point the car analogy breaks down when comparing with computer systems.
Indeed. As a car gets older, it becomes worth less, but still provides basic functions. While older software (and hardware) maintains function, it runs in an increasingly changing environment. The biggest issue being security. I have a few older apps that will no longer run in a secure environment. They have become potential vectors to malware and other nefarious software attackers. The use outdated system calls to do file management, or networking.

After 45 years in the Software business, I have learned to upgrade to the latest on everything. Including Windows. Apple. and Adobe. Newer is better, in ways you may not even see.
 
Continuing to use old, outdated, and no longer updated software has a lot in common with buying a car and driving it into the ground. At some point you are getting diminishing returns, and then actually start to suffer just to save a few bucks.
At some point the car analogy breaks down when comparing with computer systems.
Indeed. As a car gets older, it becomes worth less, but still provides basic functions. While older software (and hardware) maintains function, it runs in an increasingly changing environment. The biggest issue being security. I have a few older apps that will no longer run in a secure environment. They have become potential vectors to malware and other nefarious software attackers. The use outdated system calls to do file management, or networking.

After 45 years in the Software business, I have learned to upgrade to the latest on everything. Including Windows. Apple. and Adobe. Newer is better, in ways you may not even see.
Another way that analogies break down is assuming that all use cases are the same as your use case. "The biggest issue being security" isn't applicable with the legacy software I described. None of it is exposed to the Internet. And it is very rarely run at all. (But when it is run it is really needed.) Some of the custom software was written before there was an Internet at all. (Windows went through several versions before it had any kind of TCP stack.)

I am attempting to be able to run the most recent versions of ACR and Photoshop, now and in the future. But I have also described in other posts in this thread that it isn't a high priority because I mostly use a Pixel (in JPEG-only mode) for photography these days. I'd *like* to have access to SOTA ACR/Photoshop in case I do suddenly want to do intensive editing. But I only use Photoshop for simple image resizing these days and haven't needed SOTA (ish) ACR/Photoshop in over a year.

Other than sticking with Win 10 for now, I do keep everything that is local and accesses the Internet as updated as possible. Anything that really accesses the Internet (i.e., web facing) is on a managed server (and only consists of static HTML.)

Wayne
 
Why doesn't Adobe try to harness the unused potential of the CPU instead of being coded more and more to use the GPU?
IMHO there's two reasons why software is trending to use GPUs more:

Firstly, in the old days GPUs were a bit of a niche product and I think a lot of the software developers figured that there wasn't enough payback from the relatively few people looking for GPU-level performance to make it worth investing the coding effort. That's changing now with GPU prices coming down and more and more CPUs including an onboard integrated GPU. It's kind of like the old days when we transitioned from having a separate 80x87 floating point co-processor to the floating-point instructions being built into the Intel 80486 and later CPUs. With that generation of CPUs it became much more common for software to take advantage of floating-point capabilities since it didn't have to worry if the machine had the capability or not.

Secondly, GPUs are just much better suited to high performance processing of images. Image processing consists of the same repetitive operations on dozens of millions of pixels. CPUs are inherently sequential processing engines - they process one pixel, then the next, then the next, and so on. So no matter how fast they are, it takes dozens of millions iterations for them to get all the way through an image. Even with a 16-core processor you're talking millions of operations that have to be done, one after another, on each core.

GPUs are optimized to perform massively parallel processing of pixels. Instead of having 16 complex general-purpose cores with instruction and RAM caches, they have thousands of very simple arithmetic units that can be programmed to perform the same series of calculations on different parts of the image simultaneously. So they can reduce the time taken for processing all the pixels in an image by hundreds or even potentially thousands of times.

With CPUs able to execute billions of instructions per second, simple processing of images with millions of pixels still works just fine. But when you start getting into more sophisticated processing such as AI noise reduction that may take several thousands of calculations for every pixel, the far higher throughput of a GPU really shines.
GPUs are more and more accessible to programmers

more and more programming languages support it, optimize for it, while the librariy API's become more standard, stable, and optimized

more and more imaging backend's support GPUs

specialized hardware offers huge advantage over general-purpose CPUs. And not only can it do it faster, it often can do it at much lower power. While not much of a concern on the desktop, mobile computing is a huge market which justifies the R&D required to do it.

I remember when windows first came out. It was soooo slooooow updating the screen (which were pretty limited back then...both pixel resolution and color depth. Heck, 256 color was a thing...lol)

soon came cards that vastly improved windows screen drawing. It was a huge improvement. eventually all that was moved on GPU, either on-chip or descrete
 
I think the subscription model has worked well for Adobe and drives more R&D as well.
I'd love to hear the numbers. I know I'm not the only one who stopped upgrading after CS6 and who's abandoned Premiere Pro for DaVinci Resolve.
it's definitely working out for them. Is it for us? That's the real question.
Each to their own, but it does work out for me.

I pay £9.98 a month UK including tax for Photoshop and Lightroom.

In times BC (Before CC) I had bought Lightroom and Photoshop (and remember how hideously expensive Photoshop was, unless you could get an eductional licence, in which case it was just expensive). I upgraded Lightroom every new release, and Photoshop every 2 or 3 releases (when you could do that).

When I did the sums (I don't have the numbers to hand now), at the rate of major releases, the annualised cost of updates to LR and PS was about the same as the subscription. The frequency of major releases to LR and PS is if anything faster than before CC (and I get every release, not just every 2 or 3 for PS).

I appreciate that if you rarely if ever bought upgrades to LR or PS then subscription is not so great.
I think there are still a lot of old graybeards (which includes me) that yearn for the salad days of the 1980's when they could just pirate every single bit of software in existence with minimal difficulty. They have an allergy to paying for software in any form. I know I did this almost as a part time job back in the 80's & 90's.

At some point activation, drm, and online licensing tech got sophisticated enough to deter all but the most dedicated pirates. The graybeards pivoted to buying perpetual licenses and you'll have tear their copies of PS6 and LR4 from their cold, dead hands.

The software development ecosystem and need for revenue growth matured and the companies now require ongoing and predictable recuring subscription revenue. No of us actually own anything we buy anymore under these plans. But that is the going forward business model and fighting against it is just pi$$ing up a rope.

At least Adobe has done a very good job recently of returning actual value for their subscription fees. The advances in Lightroom and PS from the last few years are extremely impressive. They might slow down again or stagnate in the future, but for now they can keep earning my subscription fees.
That's my issue with Adobe's subscription, if they slack off on upgrades you are still forced to pay them so long as you want to use the software, even if the upgrades are no longer worth it. There is no exit strategy.
 
I think the subscription model has worked well for Adobe and drives more R&D as well.
I'd love to hear the numbers. I know I'm not the only one who stopped upgrading after CS6 and who's abandoned Premiere Pro for DaVinci Resolve.
it's definitely working out for them. Is it for us? That's the real question.
Each to their own, but it does work out for me.

I pay £9.98 a month UK including tax for Photoshop and Lightroom.

In times BC (Before CC) I had bought Lightroom and Photoshop (and remember how hideously expensive Photoshop was, unless you could get an eductional licence, in which case it was just expensive). I upgraded Lightroom every new release, and Photoshop every 2 or 3 releases (when you could do that).

When I did the sums (I don't have the numbers to hand now), at the rate of major releases, the annualised cost of updates to LR and PS was about the same as the subscription. The frequency of major releases to LR and PS is if anything faster than before CC (and I get every release, not just every 2 or 3 for PS).

I appreciate that if you rarely if ever bought upgrades to LR or PS then subscription is not so great.
I think there are still a lot of old graybeards (which includes me) that yearn for the salad days of the 1980's when they could just pirate every single bit of software in existence with minimal difficulty. They have an allergy to paying for software in any form. I know I did this almost as a part time job back in the 80's & 90's.

At some point activation, drm, and online licensing tech got sophisticated enough to deter all but the most dedicated pirates. The graybeards pivoted to buying perpetual licenses and you'll have tear their copies of PS6 and LR4 from their cold, dead hands.

The software development ecosystem and need for revenue growth matured and the companies now require ongoing and predictable recuring subscription revenue. No of us actually own anything we buy anymore under these plans. But that is the going forward business model and fighting against it is just pi$$ing up a rope.

At least Adobe has done a very good job recently of returning actual value for their subscription fees. The advances in Lightroom and PS from the last few years are extremely impressive. They might slow down again or stagnate in the future, but for now they can keep earning my subscription fees.
That's my issue with Adobe's subscription, if they slack off on upgrades you are still forced to pay them so long as you want to use the software, even if the upgrades are no longer worth it. There is no exit strategy.
I understand. Call me an optimist, but I expect Adobe to do support and upgrades longer than my lifetime. (I'm 68. My mother died at 88, my father 95.)
 
I understand. Call me an optimist, but I expect Adobe to do support and upgrades longer than my lifetime. (I'm 68. My mother died at 88, my father 95.)
That's either great optimism about the future prospects for Adobe (Remember when AOL was a giant, as was Yahoo?), or a belief that your lifespan will be a severe regression to the mean.
 
I think the subscription model has worked well for Adobe and drives more R&D as well.
I'd love to hear the numbers. I know I'm not the only one who stopped upgrading after CS6 and who's abandoned Premiere Pro for DaVinci Resolve.
it's definitely working out for them. Is it for us? That's the real question.
Each to their own, but it does work out for me.

I pay £9.98 a month UK including tax for Photoshop and Lightroom.

In times BC (Before CC) I had bought Lightroom and Photoshop (and remember how hideously expensive Photoshop was, unless you could get an eductional licence, in which case it was just expensive). I upgraded Lightroom every new release, and Photoshop every 2 or 3 releases (when you could do that).

When I did the sums (I don't have the numbers to hand now), at the rate of major releases, the annualised cost of updates to LR and PS was about the same as the subscription. The frequency of major releases to LR and PS is if anything faster than before CC (and I get every release, not just every 2 or 3 for PS).

I appreciate that if you rarely if ever bought upgrades to LR or PS then subscription is not so great.
I think there are still a lot of old graybeards (which includes me) that yearn for the salad days of the 1980's when they could just pirate every single bit of software in existence with minimal difficulty. They have an allergy to paying for software in any form. I know I did this almost as a part time job back in the 80's & 90's.

At some point activation, drm, and online licensing tech got sophisticated enough to deter all but the most dedicated pirates. The graybeards pivoted to buying perpetual licenses and you'll have tear their copies of PS6 and LR4 from their cold, dead hands.

The software development ecosystem and need for revenue growth matured and the companies now require ongoing and predictable recuring subscription revenue. No of us actually own anything we buy anymore under these plans. But that is the going forward business model and fighting against it is just pi$$ing up a rope.

At least Adobe has done a very good job recently of returning actual value for their subscription fees. The advances in Lightroom and PS from the last few years are extremely impressive. They might slow down again or stagnate in the future, but for now they can keep earning my subscription fees.
That's my issue with Adobe's subscription, if they slack off on upgrades you are still forced to pay them so long as you want to use the software, even if the upgrades are no longer worth it. There is no exit strategy.
You can exit safely at any time. Adobe Bridge (free) can read all your Lightroom edits and convert them to JPG or whatever you need. Just have Lightroom save XMP files for your library of photos and you are all set.
 
I understand. Call me an optimist, but I expect Adobe to do support and upgrades longer than my lifetime. (I'm 68. My mother died at 88, my father 95.)
That's either great optimism about the future prospects for Adobe (Remember when AOL was a giant, as was Yahoo?), or a belief that your lifespan will be a severe regression to the mean.
It's possible that Adobe could go stagnant and die.

In the mid 1990s, I used the Alta Vista search engine. DEC (Digital Equipment Corp.) personnel invented a pretty good search engine. They apparently failed to invent the Google business model. RIP, 2013.

It has happened to companies with more substantial products than the early Internet giants. In the photography realm, think of Kodak and Polaroid.

I can't foresee the future. At $120 per year (plus tax), my exposure is tolerable.
 
It's possible that Adobe could go stagnant and die.

In the mid 1990s, I used the Alta Vista search engine. DEC (Digital Equipment Corp.) personnel invented a pretty good search engine. They apparently failed to invent the Google business model. RIP, 2013.
Less about going stagnant versus being surpassed by something new.

Even the Alphabet concern isn't safe - Google still derives the vast majority of income from search and they/investors panicked last year when ChatGPT went live.
 

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