Feelings of Z9 users

As a hobbyist, every update gives me a happiness boost ;)

And major updates give major boosts. They may not last for long but are a net positive thing.

Every major update also encourages me to test new features and take more photos.

I have no negatives words / feeling about these updates.
 
This is the first firmware update that has come out since buying my refurbed Z9. I might load it in the next week or so rather than immediately making time to do so as I’m not expecting or needing any Earth shattering improvements.

When the Z9 came out, it was “so fast, so sticky, OMG it was on another level”. Then firmware update #1 came and OMG it was now on another level. Huge jump in improvement. Then update #2 came along and OMG it was now truly on another level. For real this time. Big jump in AF improvement. Then update #3 came along and this time, really it was now on another level. Like for real this time it was. Huge jump in AF. Wait maybe we needed to correct this case here so then update #4 came and OMG they finally nailed it. Huge jump in AF. For real it’s on another level.

The Z9 update hysteria has to be overblown in my opinion. Either that or people were flat out lying about what the camera was in each prior firmware version. After all, how can a camera that many promoted as flawless (you just had to know how to use it properly, they said) be continuously made better by such large jumps with each AF firmware upgrade? It’s all eye rolling stuff taken with a grain of salt.
You obviously have NO understanding of what an algorithm is and how it affects the hardware it's attached to. While not all the firmware update were perhap "revolutionary", the point the Z9 has come to from its first release is indeed as if it were another camera. The focus is now top of the heap when used by a REAL photographer that doesn't rely on autopilot like the competition does. Other features that were added are without question top notch by comparison to the others out there. So just get over it.
More eye rolling and laughable commentary from someone trying to justify their hypocrisy of 1) criticizing photographers who even hint that a Nikon body’s performance can be improved and then 2) admitting that Nikon improved the performance with each firmware upgrade. It appears that you are the one who has no idea what algorithms are and the potential they bring for improvement because you apparently seem to be so amazed when Nikon actually improves an already existing body with firmware upgrades just as the people you once criticized suggested it could.
 
Well, I got the Z9 with FW 2 installed, and I immediately (I mean the very first time I tested it) had issues with the camera ignoring a close subject, locking onto the background, and then fighting me for control. I also had issues with backgrounds when my subject (usually a bird) was small in the viewfinder. (These were situations where the D850 tracked reliably with 3d Tracking).

FW 3 came out, and the problem was lessened. Clearly better. 3.01 came out, and I found further improvements.

What I'd say about the Z9 was that - in every firmware level - when the AF worked, it worked so well it was magical. But there were flaws, and those flaws were easy to find. My experience so far is that the flaws have been reduced considerably. I'm very interested to take the Z9 out today to try focusing on some birds. I'm also planning on setting the camera on a tripod, pointing to a nest hole in cactus and seeing if I can get Auto Capture to pick up on a parent coming to the nest to feed the chicks. I can hear the chicks in the nest, but cannot see anything unless & until they poke their little heads up. I think back in the day we called this 'trap focus', though the Z9 takes it to another level entirely.

And I'm not just thinking of autofocus changes. I really like 120fps viewfinder more. I really like having the ability to move the ISO button to Fn4. (That makes a huge difference when shooting underwater in a housing.) I have a feeling I'm going to love both Auto Capture and prerelease buffer (though I want RAW there). I may have a chance to do some whale watching in Alaska this summer, and I'm hoping preburst helps me get a better shot of a whale breach.
That’s a completely reasonable take and is essentially my view of the camera. The Z9 is great and I accept that it has gotten better with the firmware upgrades. My issue is with the people who were so sensitive to Nikon criticism that they went overboard and claimed the camera was essentially flawless each step of the way for those who “knew how to use it” but then admitted things got better for them with the upgrades.
 
I really feel for the Thom Hogans and Steve Perrys here.

Once a new firmware update comes out, you have to retest the camera extensively.

You almost have to assume that all your prior knowledge has been partly erased or at the least is in error somewhere.
Sort of. Many of the things Nikon added/changed will be easy enough to deal with in a revision. Two things won't. First, the Auto Capture feature is overly complex, and has the usual Nikonspeak in it that requires checking and reverse engineering to see what they really meant. Because of all the combinations and permutations that are involved, that will require some real testing time to make sure I've dealt with everything.

The other is the vague "improved AF" type comments, particularly the one about 3D-tracking. Nikon has now changed 3D-tracking four times on the Z9. And the changes are subtle and situation specific, and one of the changes was impacted by speed at which you did control transfers. I'm still not sure I've got that all nailed down.
It's never fun to have your menu items renamed and/or moved either.
The one that irks me is sticking a new (old) Custom Setting in the middle of the rest of them, making all the numbering now off by one everywhere you reference stuff. D8/D9, no D10 is annoying. What this tells me is that Nikon's engineering isn't well organized on these things. (And who let them take out Exposure Delay Mode in the first place? There's legitimate photographic need for that function, even without a shutter.)
And of course for now, if you have a Z8 and a Z9, you can't do the same things with them. Suppose you want to shoot in HEIF? How about n-log raw at ISO 200?
That's really annoying. We're going to just ping-pong between book updates as Nikon tries to get its act together on what belongs in which camera and why. Since Goto-san left, there hasn't been a strong voice above the separate design groups saying "no, please don't change what the other group is doing."
Thanks for your responses.

So this means each of the recent camera develops its User Interface independently?

Hopefully, guys such as Keiji Oishi, Department Manager of UX Planning read these threads. It sounds like he's one of the culprits as to why the Z9, for example, lost Delay Exposure at launch, and other features, such as the option to customize a Metering Mode to a button. This department must also be culpable for refusing to fix the MIA AFMode+AFOn in the D780 and all Z MILCs, except 2....

Incidentally, he's stated how he prioritized Firmware updates on his appointment:

"....after I took over product planning, we are planning to schedule firmware updates more frequently. We don’t want that kind of delay [again] between the announcement of firmware and its availability. We want to do regular scheduled firmware updates to keep the products up to date for a long time..."

 
How do you guys feel when a new major firmware updates is released? Is it like having a brand new camera?
Why some people are still upset and ranting? :-O
My beef with 4.0, is that Nikon states I have to use the Latest version of NX Studio ver. 1.4. Thing is, the latest version that wasn't Buggy and Functioned correctly was Ver. 1.2.2...

So, I will not be upgrading the Firmware past 3.10. until Nikon fixes NX Studio, which they haven't

95% of the changes are for Video, and I will never use that. In fact I have asked Nikon if they could issue in Future FW updates, Options that can remove the Video Functions and Menus.
What is this about having to use NX Studio? That's not true as far as I know. I don't know any pro's using it and Nikon would be nuts to force it on shooters.

The Z9 is a powerful video tool, so that's a big part of the system. It's not going anywhere, but shooters don't have to use it.

Robert
 
How do you guys feel when a new major firmware updates is released? Is it like having a brand new camera?
Why some people are still upset and ranting? :-O
My beef with 4.0, is that Nikon states I have to use the Latest version of NX Studio ver. 1.4. Thing is, the latest version that wasn't Buggy and Functioned correctly was Ver. 1.2.2...
There's nothing at all that says you have to use 1.4.0 with the Z9. The main thrust of 1.4.0 was to support the Z8.
So, I will not be upgrading the Firmware past 3.10. until Nikon fixes NX Studio, which they haven't
If I were you, I'd reconsider that. There are a ton of improvements that make it very worthwhile, and there is no reason to even use NX Studio, let alone 1.4.0. You can use all sorts of alternatives like DxO, Capture 1, Affinity Photo, Lightroom, Lightroom Classic, etc., all of which support the Z9 RAW formats.
95% of the changes are for Video, and I will never use that. In fact I have asked Nikon if they could issue in Future FW updates, Options that can remove the Video Functions and Menus.
There is absolutely zero chance of that happening. Nikon is marketing both the Z9 and Z8 as hybrid cameras. Video is integral to their strategy.

And out of idle curiosity: what's with the Spurious Capitalization on Random Words? 🤣
 
I'd be fine with seeing new firmware every week with tons of changes. As far as I'm concerned the more Nikon updates and improves upon the cameras via firmware the better. I'm an IT guy and have had plenty of experience with equipment that never gets a firmware update after the first year or so, unless there's some major security issue. Most hardware you can expect to never get another update after a few years. Very similar to the issue with drivers for hardware that never get updated after a short period also.

If I'm investing thousands of dollars into photography equipment, I'd like to be able to have some confidence in a reasonable lifecycle that includes support and continued development, 3-4 years being a bare minimum. Regardless of any confusion or extra work that firmware updates might cause, I greatly appreciate Nikon not just immediately moving on to the next best thing and not making people feel like their equipment is outdated a year after they've bought it. And of course if people don't want to deal with the hassle, they can just choose not to upgrade the firmware.
 
So this means each of the recent camera develops its User Interface independently?
Yes, apparently, if by user interface you mean firmware.

The Z8 and Z9 share most of their hardware, and aside from smaller battery and slower SD slot, they should have the same performance and feature set, yet each is missing something the other has. One wonders how the autofocus actually compares at this point.
Hopefully, guys such as Keiji Oishi, Department Manager of UX Planning read these threads.
I seriously doubt that.
It sounds like he's one of the culprits as to why the Z9, for example, lost Delay Exposure at launch, and other features, such as the option to customize a Metering Mode to a button.
I do some underwater photography, which has its quirks. One of them is the need to be able to assign almost any function to particular buttons. That is getting better with each release, but why are there limitations in the first place? With FW 2 I couldn't assign the ISO to Fn4, but I could with 3. With 3, I couldn't assign Recall Shooting Functions to Fn4; I haven't checked with 4 yet. It was quite useful to be able to assign the ISO button to Fn4, because that allowed me to push the ISO button with the left hand while spinning the dials with my right, never removing my hands from the handles of the housing. (Before I had to reach over to the right with my left hand to push a lever while my right hand spun the dials. Very awkward and slow.)
Incidentally, he's stated how he prioritized Firmware updates on his appointment:

"....after I took over product planning, we are planning to schedule firmware updates more frequently. We don’t want that kind of delay [again] between the announcement of firmware and its availability. We want to do regular scheduled firmware updates to keep the products up to date for a long time..."
That's pretty nice, actually - and I think quite a departure from previous Nikon practice. It was rare to see updates adding new features. The Z9 came out a bit rushed, so it really needed the 2.x updates, like enabling 120fps on the viewfinder and providing better video specs. But the 4.0 update looks like it feature-jumps the competition, and I suspect it will end up in the Z8 as well.

I'm still having issues with subject detection grabbing focus away from my intended subject, so AF hasn't gotten to the magic state yet for me, but then I have to master it. And re-master it with every FW update, apparently.

The Auto Capture thing sounds extremely useful in many circumstances, but I sure don't see why it is limited to FX. I think a FW 4.01 would add DX to the mix by removing that limitation. Smells a bit like they ran out of testing time so put it off. Probably a few other things as well.

Sure wish Nikon could provide some sort of add-in specialized subject detection capability, perhaps within one of the cards. It would be nice to be able to have Fish as an option when I shoot underwater.

And one more thing while I ramble on - it would be nice if the Info block could be made bigger, with more options. Fill the screen. Right now I have 12 (smallish) blocks of options. How about 24 larger ones, or 48 smaller ones? Even with customizing the menu, you still end up with too much menu diving.
 
My beef with 4.0, is that Nikon states I have to use the Latest version of NX Studio ver. 1.4. Thing is, the latest version that wasn't Buggy and Functioned correctly was Ver. 1.2.2...
There's nothing at all that says you have to use 1.4.0 with the Z9. The main thrust of 1.4.0 was to support the Z8.
Right from Nikon's Download Site

First Paragraph below "Changes from “C” Firmware Version 3.10 to 4.00"

"Note: Users of the following software will need to update to the latest versions.
  • • Camera Control Pro 2 version 2.36.0 or later, IPTC Preset Manager version 1.3.0 or later, NX Studio version 1.4.0 or later, NX MobileAir version 1.2 or later (Android edition), NX Field version 1.4 or later"
The last Version that functioned properly is 1.2.2

I like NX Studio, it allows for accurate PP of any Picture Control settings and retains Nikons Colour Gambit. 3rd Party Software is not the same, sometimes it gets sort of Close, but Close is really only applicable when it comes to Horseshoes, Grenades, and Nuclear Weapons.

I used to use PS and other Image Editors, back when I could buy any upgrades when I felt new Features were worth spending money on, but the Software Robber Barons came up with the Never-ending Monthly Gouge. So I prefer to use NX Studio, instead of being continuously being robbed every month
 
My beef with 4.0, is that Nikon states I have to use the Latest version of NX Studio ver. 1.4. Thing is, the latest version that wasn't Buggy and Functioned correctly was Ver. 1.2.2...
There's nothing at all that says you have to use 1.4.0 with the Z9. The main thrust of 1.4.0 was to support the Z8.
Right from Nikon's Download Site

First Paragraph below "Changes from “C” Firmware Version 3.10 to 4.00"

"Note: Users of the following software will need to update to the latest versions.
  • • Camera Control Pro 2 version 2.36.0 or later, IPTC Preset Manager version 1.3.0 or later, NX Studio version 1.4.0 or later, NX MobileAir version 1.2 or later (Android edition), NX Field version 1.4 or later"
I stand corrected - I did not see that.

That said, looking at the list of changes in 1.4.0 from 1.3.2, there is nothing in Nikon’s list that suggests anything that could be needed for FW 4.0.

my suggestion would be simply to try it out.

The last Version that functioned properly is 1.2.2
In what way is 1.4.0 and prior versions inferior to 1.2.2? What specifically doesn’t work?
I like NX Studio, it allows for accurate PP of any Picture Control settings and retains Nikons Colour Gambit. 3rd Party Software is not the same, sometimes it gets sort of Close, but Close is really only applicable when it comes to Horseshoes, Grenades, and Nuclear Weapons.
Adobe, for example, allows for using camera matching settings and the same gamut. It’s all about how you set it up.
I used to use PS and other Image Editors, back when I could buy any upgrades when I felt new Features were worth spending money on, but the Software Robber Barons came up with the Never-ending Monthly Gouge. So I prefer to use NX Studio, instead of being continuously being robbed every month
Fair enough, but there are still other packages that don’t require annual or monthly licenses - like, for example, Affinity.
 
So this means each of the recent camera develops its User Interface independently?
Yes, apparently, if by user interface you mean firmware.
I believe it applies to hardware, as well. Unless something has changed, once a team is formed for a new camera, they act very independently for the most part. They may have inherited code/function from a fixed point in their development, but from that point on they can and do make independent decisions.

For instance, on the hardware side note how the Z8 vertical grip doesn't fully duplicate what the Z9 vertical grip does, and that the flash button has been replaced with the WB button up top. These were basically "we have X widgets we have to fit into X-y controls." That happens a lot on the hardware side, and it seems to be done at the individual product team level. We've also seen it internally in the cameras, too, where the AF control chip of the D5 was not in the D500, probably to save cost.

In essence, a cost/function plan is developed up front, then the team works to that rather than a fully rationalized product line practice that is continuous.

It has been a while since I've talked to engineers in Tokyo about the full development cycle. It's possible it changed. But the evidence I'm seeing in product practice tells me that it hasn't.
 
How do you guys feel when a new major firmware updates is released? Is it like having a brand new camera?
Why some people are still upset and ranting? :-O
To the last point, I'm sure people were hoping for RAW pre-release capture, but that still hasn't come around. I mean I can understand, if you're a paid photographer and you had to use one of those pre-capture images, you're stuck with JPEG and there's just less editing flexibility there so that may be one rason why some Z9 users are still disappointed. I don't think adding even HE RAW pre-release capture should be that hard, even if they can't get the full rate of capture as they can with JPEG, it would provide more editing flexibility (despite being compressed RAW).
 
Love the images it makes.
 
Too many bugs in 1.4 for me to even list, but the biggest one I've had is that after I transfer Z8 photos, they disappear from NX Studio on the next restart of the application. They are still in the folder and I can see them fine in other apps, but the thumbnails disappear in NX Studio and I can't get them back. NX studio indicates there are no images in the folder. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling the app and the same thing happens after a short time. Overall I agree,, 1.2.x was the last really solid version, every version since has had more issues.
 
Too many bugs in 1.4 for me to even list, but the biggest one I've had is that after I transfer Z8 photos, they disappear from NX Studio on the next restart of the application. They are still in the folder and I can see them fine in other apps, but the thumbnails disappear in NX Studio and I can't get them back. NX studio indicates there are no images in the folder. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling the app and the same thing happens after a short time. Overall I agree,, 1.2.x was the last really solid version, every version since has had more issues.
Interesting - I've not seen that problem with NX Studio, but then I generally don't use NX Studio all that much. That said, if I fire it up, it always seems to be fine w.r.t. thumbnails. I just checked it again now, and it still sees all my images in folders.

I wonder if it's an OS thing - I'm running MacOS 13.4.
 
My beef with 4.0, is that Nikon states I have to use the Latest version of NX Studio ver. 1.4. Thing is, the latest version that wasn't Buggy and Functioned correctly was Ver. 1.2.2...
There's nothing at all that says you have to use 1.4.0 with the Z9. The main thrust of 1.4.0 was to support the Z8.
Right from Nikon's Download Site

First Paragraph below "Changes from “C” Firmware Version 3.10 to 4.00"

"Note: Users of the following software will need to update to the latest versions.
  • • Camera Control Pro 2 version 2.36.0 or later, IPTC Preset Manager version 1.3.0 or later, NX Studio version 1.4.0 or later, NX MobileAir version 1.2 or later (Android edition), NX Field version 1.4 or later"
I stand corrected - I did not see that.

That said, looking at the list of changes in 1.4.0 from 1.3.2, there is nothing in Nikon’s list that suggests anything that could be needed for FW 4.0.

my suggestion would be simply to try it out.
It is a real pain to remove all the Residuals of the later Versions, when One has to go back to a working earlier Version
The last Version that functioned properly is 1.2.2
In what way is 1.4.0 and prior versions inferior to 1.2.2? What specifically doesn’t work?
When I installed any of the Versions after 1.2.2, The Program refused to display any of the jpg or NEF files in the Folders created during transfers after installation. Sometimes the Folders weren't even shown. Also included in the Folder was a new File, of a kind unseen before. Deletion of said file, sometimes allowed for a limited number of times the program might display the Files. However, 99.99% of the time, it would just sit there, blank.

The Files and Folders were on the HD, as they were visible in Explorer, and any other Editor I had

Uninstalling and reinstalling did nothing. So it was back to 1.2.2
I like NX Studio, it allows for accurate PP of any Picture Control settings and retains Nikons Colour Gambit. 3rd Party Software is not the same, sometimes it gets sort of Close, but Close is really only applicable when it comes to Horseshoes, Grenades, and Nuclear Weapons.
Adobe, for example, allows for using camera matching settings and the same gamut. It’s all about how you set it up.
Does Adobe, have the Actual Camera Parameters, or are they Reverse Engineering, hoping they are close? As I posted above "Close is really only applicable when it comes to Horseshoes, Grenades, and Nuclear Weapons."
 
How do you guys feel when a new major firmware updates is released? Is it like having a brand new camera?
Why some people are still upset and ranting? :-O
To the last point, I'm sure people were hoping for RAW pre-release capture, but that still hasn't come around. I mean I can understand, if you're a paid photographer and you had to use one of those pre-capture images, you're stuck with JPEG and there's just less editing flexibility there so that may be one rason why some Z9 users are still disappointed. I don't think adding even HE RAW pre-release capture should be that hard, even if they can't get the full rate of capture as they can with JPEG, it would provide more editing flexibility (despite being compressed RAW).
Pre-Release, with NEF, might be a Z10 Feature, as the amount of Data, needing to be continuously being buffered, is likely too much for the current Hardware. All those, practically demanding the feature, would likely have their Heads Implode/Explode if a Raw Version were offered, but at only 10fps
 
Are you suggesting homers who spend all their time hanging out in product forums are prone to hyperbole?

I'm having a hard time believing this.
 
It is a real pain to remove all the Residuals of the later Versions, when One has to go back to a working earlier Version
You appear to be a Windows user, so I can't really help with residual stuff. But I'd bet that something got left around that 1.4.0 didn't like and that this is a RESEDIT job. Also, does the NEF Codec you're using match the current software?
The last Version that functioned properly is 1.2.2
In what way is 1.4.0 and prior versions inferior to 1.2.2? What specifically doesn’t work?
When I installed any of the Versions after 1.2.2, The Program refused to display any of the jpg or NEF files in the Folders created during transfers after installation.
See above.
Does Adobe, have the Actual Camera Parameters, or are they Reverse Engineering, hoping they are close?
Almost certainly Adobe is applying their own model to imitate Nikon Picture Controls. The Adobe/Nikon relationship is a weird one, and that weirdness goes all the way back to when Adobe supplied software to use with Nikon's film scanners.
 
It is a real pain to remove all the Residuals of the later Versions, when One has to go back to a working earlier Version
You appear to be a Windows user, so I can't really help with residual stuff. But I'd bet that something got left around that 1.4.0 didn't like and that this is a RESEDIT job. Also, does the NEF Codec you're using match the current software?
The last Version that functioned properly is 1.2.2
In what way is 1.4.0 and prior versions inferior to 1.2.2? What specifically doesn’t work?
When I installed any of the Versions after 1.2.2, The Program refused to display any of the jpg or NEF files in the Folders created during transfers after installation.
See above.
I am a Windows User. I have bought 2 MacBook Pros a few years back when I was in Awe of Aperture. But I had all kinds of difficulty trying to get an Edited Image to sent to a Lab for Printing with the Edits intact. And had a hell of a time actually locating the File on the HD. So I returned them, and stayed with Windows. I have since built and used several Hackentoshes, and they are just as Weird as the Real McCoy. I haven't even booked the Hackentosh up for over a Yr.

I will admit the Hackentosh, does render the Image slightly differently than the Windows Comp, even though the hardware was Identical, including the Monitor, and in both cases the same version of PS was being used.
 

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