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Do you want a Z500 body

Do you want a Z500 body

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michaeladawson said:
I can say unequivocally that for me I don't want either A or B. I don't want a Z8 sized body for DX. I want a far better camera than what would be suggested by a Z50 update.
Click to expand...
Likewise - neither choice seemed interesting.
michaeladawson said:
I really would prefer something above 30MP to make it worth my while since I already have a Z8 and 9.
Click to expand...
I'd prefer it to be more restrained to keep better low light capability. However, part of the attraction for a crop sensor can be telephoto 'reach' so it's going to be 20+ and the Fuji stacked sensor is likely the one to beat today.

Larger than D50 body, but ideally as small as a Z6/7. Remove the shutter if you can afford the processor and power, otherwise compromise and retain. Likewise on storage, it comes down to what can you get into a reasonable size/power/price point.

They probably designed a flagship cropped sensor mirrorless body. We'll see if they think the market will buy enough of them to release it.
 
Hi,

That is always a good idea. In this case, it's a pretty common initial group for digital photography. So I suppose it was considered that it was going to be understood.

I do like to spell it out the first time myself. Sometimes that doesn't work. Such as for MF. It can mean Manual Focus or Medium Format on this site. So, if I'm in the Medium Format forum, I use it to mean that. Any other forum I use it to mean Manual Focus.

And I still spell it out the first time I use MF. Yet half the time, the subsequent use still causes confusion. :P

Oh, well....

Stan
 
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
 
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I'm an uninterested observer, but I think the most realistic outcome will be something in the middle- the current Sony 26 MP non stacked sensor with an Expeed 7 processor in a Z6/7 style body (that means IBIS and the 3.6MP EVF). Under that I could see a Z90 with the same sensor in a more budget body at a lower price point. A baby Z8 is fan fiction IMO and there are a lot of obvious reasons why.
 
Alex Permit said:
  • Alex Permit wrote:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
Click to expand...
Not if you're using an FX lens. I only used FX lenses on my D500's. Unlikely you'll hit the FX lenses resolving power on a 45mp sensor. 50/50 on a 60mp sensor. You're just using the wrong Lenese if you're using DX lenses on an FX body.

The D500's 20.9mp APS-C sensor's pixel density is that of a 48mp FF sensor.
 
Yes i would likely buy an APS-C body that would be the D500 replacement in the $2000-$2500 range.

The minimum I'd like it to have it be based on...

24mp stacked sensor, shutterless, 15fps, Z9 AF system dual CFE Type B cards and can max o it at 4k 120p, same EVF or maybe slightly higher res. 5mp would be a nice bump without to much extra power drain on the battery and roughly the same size as the D500. Other side will be there in sure, these are just the specs of want it to be built around

If the price can't be $2000-$2500 with the stacked sensor, then 24mp BSI sensor and just include a shutter.

That would be ideal as a backup/second body to my Z9 and ideal for the last of the D500 holdouts at that price point.
 
Fredrik Glckner said:
Is there a market for a D500 version in Z?

I'm thinking that most enthusiasts nowadays want to have fullframe.

Yes, I know that for reach and weight/size, DX is better. But I think that most people who would have been D500 owners are now looking at the Z8 or Z9, and with these cameras you get almost 20MP in DX mode, so it is like having an extra D500 at the push of a button.

Weight wise, is there that much difference between a Z8 and a D500?

A Z500 would probably have 24MP, and is that really enough of an increase over crop mode from Z8?

Perhaps a Z500 would come in at a lower price, but not by a large margin, I think.
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I went from the D700 and D750 to the D500 and then to the Z6.

Still shooting the same kind of jobs we have been doing for over 20 years now. Weddings and portrait sessions most out doors on the beach.

I would love to have a pro version of the Z50 I also do have. A smaller system then the Z6.

Need the 8000 shutter speed the Z50 is only 4000 so can not shoot wide open on bright days out with out using a ND filter I dont want to deal with taking on and off as we move around shooting. Need the better weather sealed body as we work on the beach in the heat and ocean mist and get stuck in the rain a good amount.

20mp is fine plenty we sell large prints and have been selling large prints going back to 6mp cameras with no problem - at 12mp the D700 could produce fantastic 24x36s now at 20 or 24mm its plenty and with deep cropping. I have 16x20S hanging on the wall from the D700 12MP and the D500 and you can not tell one from the other except for some color the D500 had better color.

Would like a great focus system like from the Z8 and 9 in a new DX version Sony has no problems doing this with their systems.

I dont need double card slots never used them even in cameras that had them.

A new version needs the features of the Z30 like USB charging and shooting from USB power, And the flip out screen for front of camera shooting.

Add a head phone jack and 10 bit video and other better video features.

And much better battery life then the Z50 has its very bad put the Z6 battery in a new z50 version.
Also a higher quality view finder.

Nikon has so many DX version cameras for Z mount but non of them are very good all with limits to them like the Z30 with no view finder. I would have picked that up just for the few better features but not without a view finder. I shoot to much in the day time and need a viewfinder to block out the sun,

I would use a new pro DX camera with the newer Sigma 1.4 lens to built a three lens system to get 24mm, 45mm and 85mm all at F 1.4 that would = my Z6 at 1.8 to f2 range.
All I would ever need for my portrait jobs. Then I would use my Z 24-120 F4 on one for all our outdoor weddings to get a 35 to 180 F4 range on it.

This would build a smaller lighter system.

I would buy two of them and sell one of my Z6s and my Z50 so if needed I would still have one Z6 FF.
 
Fredrik Glckner said:
Is there a market for a D500 version in Z?

I'm thinking that most enthusiasts nowadays want to have fullframe.

Yes, I know that for reach and weight/size, DX is better. But I think that most people who would have been D500 owners are now looking at the Z8 or Z9, and with these cameras you get almost 20MP in DX mode, so it is like having an extra D500 at the push of a button.

Weight wise, is there that much difference between a Z8 and a D500?

A Z500 would probably have 24MP, and is that really enough of an increase over crop mode from Z8?

Perhaps a Z500 would come in at a lower price, but not by a large margin, I think.
Click to expand...
So I don't get where you think those folks want a camera the size of a Z8/Z9. Nor do I get that you think Modern Day New Cropped buyers want less than 26MP, bare Min.

So Likely 30MP or more really to get most folks attention. Less than 20MP is basically a JOKE to folks looking into cropped these day NEW considering all the competition these days. A Z500 would be in the $2000-2500 range.
 
EricK214 said:
EricK214 said:
  • Alex Permit wrote:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
Click to expand...
Not if you're using an FX lens. I only used FX lenses on my D500's. Unlikely you'll hit the FX lenses resolving power on a 45mp sensor. 50/50 on a 60mp sensor. You're just using the wrong Lenese if you're using DX lenses on an FX body.

The D500's 20.9mp APS-C sensor's pixel density is that of a 48mp FF sensor.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered using a DX lens on an FX body. I tried it on my D5 just to see if it would work.

I also used FF lenses on my D500. While the D500 was smaller and lighter than my D5, and DX equivalents were smaller too, I primarily bought it because it offered the same Multi-CAM 20K autofocus module as my D5 and a higher resolution than a DX crop from the 20.8 MP FF D5 sensor.

In my experience, Nikon's current S-line Z lenses significantly outperform their F-mount counterparts in sharpness. I conjecture that the difference between a 45mp and 60mp sensor would be noticeable when using these lenses, particularly at the center where the DX crop is located.
 
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Bob A L said:
I'm a totally dedicated DX (apsc) sensor user with no desire whatsoever to have a FF camera again and only use Nikon DX ILC cameras. I use a Zfc and am essentially fully satisfied with it. I do not need any higher spec'd camera for any reason I can think of and the only way I know of to improve my Zfc would be to replace the evf with a prism, optical viewfinder, and mirror :-D . I am fairly sure that mirrorless will never offer the real time, instant response of optical viewfinders. I do not use much of what the Zfc has to offer, so can't think of what more it needs. I do not have problems with it not focusing on the eyes that I see many complaints about with other Z models, but I do not let my camera decide what to focus on. I tell it where to focus and recompose as necessary to frame the shot. My only real complaints are associated with the evf not being real time. So my fix for that is to get out one of my lesser featured dx dslr's when necessary.
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so I guess that's a no, lol. Not really sure why you even have a mirrorless camera, tbh.
 
Before I dive into the replies I thought I would explain before my ideas are influenced by others.



For a long time I wanted a D500 replacement with a Nikon Z equivalent. I was holding onto my d500 and waiting. Then I started using my Z7 and cropping the pics to the DX size for portraits and landscapes when I didn’t have my D500 with me. Then I started using the Z7 to take pictures of the dogs playing. I still had the D500 but it came with me less and less often. After the Z9 was announced, and I realized that I could afford one I got it and sold the D500.
The Z9 does everything I would want a Z “DX” camera to do. I am sure there are those out there who need/want more for their photography. But I’m no longer one of them.
 
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
  • Alex Permit wrote:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
Click to expand...
Not if you're using an FX lens. I only used FX lenses on my D500's. Unlikely you'll hit the FX lenses resolving power on a 45mp sensor. 50/50 on a 60mp sensor. You're just using the wrong Lenese if you're using DX lenses on an FX body.

The D500's 20.9mp APS-C sensor's pixel density is that of a 48mp FF sensor.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered using a DX lens on an FX body. I tried it on my D5 just to see if it would work.

I also used FF lenses on my D500. While the D500 was smaller and lighter than my D5, and DX equivalents were smaller too, I primarily bought it because it offered the same Multi-CAM 20K autofocus module as my D5 and a higher resolution than a DX crop from the 20.8 MP FF D5 sensor.

In my experience, Nikon's current S-line Z lenses significantly outperform their F-mount counterparts in sharpness. I conjecture that the difference between a 45mp and 60mp sensor would be noticeable when using these lenses, particularly at the center where the DX crop is located.
Click to expand...
You will not notice much of any difference between a 45mp vs 60mp sensors in IQ. If you are cropping in as far as you can to just before the point of pixelation, you will notice you can crop a touch further, but the IQ difference is so negligible doubtful you will notice in real world images.

Don't forget the higher the MP, the more that sensor will show flaws on your technique. That may very well be the reason most don't see a difference in IQ between the two. Also, a 4k monitor will also have limit of noticeable IQ differences. At some point the monitor you are looking at the images with will not be able to produce more detail/IQ

--
Eric
Wildlife/BIF Hunter: Nikon Z9 is my weapon of choice, the 800mm f6.3 PF is my ammo.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nikondoesabodygood/
 
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
EricK214 said:
  • Alex Permit wrote:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
Click to expand...
Not if you're using an FX lens. I only used FX lenses on my D500's. Unlikely you'll hit the FX lenses resolving power on a 45mp sensor. 50/50 on a 60mp sensor. You're just using the wrong Lenese if you're using DX lenses on an FX body.

The D500's 20.9mp APS-C sensor's pixel density is that of a 48mp FF sensor.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered using a DX lens on an FX body. I tried it on my D5 just to see if it would work.

I also used FF lenses on my D500. While the D500 was smaller and lighter than my D5, and DX equivalents were smaller too, I primarily bought it because it offered the same Multi-CAM 20K autofocus module as my D5 and a higher resolution than a DX crop from the 20.8 MP FF D5 sensor.

In my experience, Nikon's current S-line Z lenses significantly outperform their F-mount counterparts in sharpness. I conjecture that the difference between a 45mp and 60mp sensor would be noticeable when using these lenses, particularly at the center where the DX crop is located.
Click to expand...
You will not notice much of any difference between a 45mp vs 60mp sensors in IQ. If you are cropping in as far as you can to just before the point of pixelation, you will notice you can crop a touch further, but the IQ difference is so negligible doubtful you will notice in real world images.

Don't forget the higher the MP, the more that sensor will show flaws on your technique. That may very well be the reason most don't see a difference in IQ between the two. Also, a 4k monitor will also have limit of noticeable IQ differences. At some point the monitor you are looking at the images with will not be able to produce more detail/IQ
Click to expand...
I think of it as going from a 22.8mp DX sensor to a 30mp DX sensor. It's a 60% jump in sensor resolution, which is not the doubling I got between my D5 and D500. Sixty percent is not enough for me, but I can see how it could be for some. I agree to achieve that 30mp resolution from a DX sensor will put more of a burden on your shooting technique. Luckily Nikon has been improving its VR systems since the old D5 days, so camera shake is less of an issue. But other problems, such as nailing focus, get magnified with increasing sensor resolution.
 
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
  • Alex Permit wrote:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
Click to expand...
Not if you're using an FX lens. I only used FX lenses on my D500's. Unlikely you'll hit the FX lenses resolving power on a 45mp sensor. 50/50 on a 60mp sensor. You're just using the wrong Lenese if you're using DX lenses on an FX body.

The D500's 20.9mp APS-C sensor's pixel density is that of a 48mp FF sensor.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered using a DX lens on an FX body. I tried it on my D5 just to see if it would work.

I also used FF lenses on my D500. While the D500 was smaller and lighter than my D5, and DX equivalents were smaller too, I primarily bought it because it offered the same Multi-CAM 20K autofocus module as my D5 and a higher resolution than a DX crop from the 20.8 MP FF D5 sensor.

In my experience, Nikon's current S-line Z lenses significantly outperform their F-mount counterparts in sharpness. I conjecture that the difference between a 45mp and 60mp sensor would be noticeable when using these lenses, particularly at the center where the DX crop is located.
Click to expand...
You will not notice much of any difference between a 45mp vs 60mp sensors in IQ. If you are cropping in as far as you can to just before the point of pixelation, you will notice you can crop a touch further, but the IQ difference is so negligible doubtful you will notice in real world images.

Don't forget the higher the MP, the more that sensor will show flaws on your technique. That may very well be the reason most don't see a difference in IQ between the two. Also, a 4k monitor will also have limit of noticeable IQ differences. At some point the monitor you are looking at the images with will not be able to produce more detail/IQ
Click to expand...
I think of it as going from a 22.8mp DX sensor to a 30mp DX sensor. It's a 60% jump in sensor resolution, which is not the doubling I got between my D5 and D500. Sixty percent is not enough for me, but I can see how it could be for some. I agree to achieve that 30mp resolution from a DX sensor will put more of a burden on your shooting technique. Luckily Nikon has been improving its VR systems since the old D5 days, so camera shake is less of an issue. But other problems, such as nailing focus, get magnified with increasing sensor resolution.
Click to expand...
I've seen the difference in 61mp images and 45mo images on a 4k monitor. In blind side by side comparisons, at 4 people comparing couldn't tell the difference. Good luck to anyone else to consistently see the difference. You'll be guessing more times than not
 
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
EricK214 said:
  • Alex Permit wrote:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
Click to expand...
Not if you're using an FX lens. I only used FX lenses on my D500's. Unlikely you'll hit the FX lenses resolving power on a 45mp sensor. 50/50 on a 60mp sensor. You're just using the wrong Lenese if you're using DX lenses on an FX body.

The D500's 20.9mp APS-C sensor's pixel density is that of a 48mp FF sensor.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered using a DX lens on an FX body. I tried it on my D5 just to see if it would work.

I also used FF lenses on my D500. While the D500 was smaller and lighter than my D5, and DX equivalents were smaller too, I primarily bought it because it offered the same Multi-CAM 20K autofocus module as my D5 and a higher resolution than a DX crop from the 20.8 MP FF D5 sensor.

In my experience, Nikon's current S-line Z lenses significantly outperform their F-mount counterparts in sharpness. I conjecture that the difference between a 45mp and 60mp sensor would be noticeable when using these lenses, particularly at the center where the DX crop is located.
Click to expand...
You will not notice much of any difference between a 45mp vs 60mp sensors in IQ. If you are cropping in as far as you can to just before the point of pixelation, you will notice you can crop a touch further, but the IQ difference is so negligible doubtful you will notice in real world images.

Don't forget the higher the MP, the more that sensor will show flaws on your technique. That may very well be the reason most don't see a difference in IQ between the two. Also, a 4k monitor will also have limit of noticeable IQ differences. At some point the monitor you are looking at the images with will not be able to produce more detail/IQ
Click to expand...
I think of it as going from a 22.8mp DX sensor to a 30mp DX sensor. It's a 60% jump in sensor resolution, which is not the doubling I got between my D5 and D500. Sixty percent is not enough for me, but I can see how it could be for some. I agree to achieve that 30mp resolution from a DX sensor will put more of a burden on your shooting technique. Luckily Nikon has been improving its VR systems since the old D5 days, so camera shake is less of an issue. But other problems, such as nailing focus, get magnified with increasing sensor resolution.
Click to expand...
I've seen the difference in 61mp images and 45mo images on a 4k monitor. In blind side by side comparisons, at 4 people comparing couldn't tell the difference. Good luck to anyone else to consistently see the difference. You'll be guessing more times than not
Click to expand...
Yes but the proposed "Z500" DX sensor is 30 mp, and the Z8 DX crop is 22.8 mp. Not saying you could see that difference on a 4k monitor either.
 
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Fredrik Glckner said:
Is there a market for a D500 version in Z?

I'm thinking that most enthusiasts nowadays want to have fullframe.

Yes, I know that for reach and weight/size, DX is better. But I think that most people who would have been D500 owners are now looking at the Z8 or Z9, and with these cameras you get almost 20MP in DX mode, so it is like having an extra D500 at the push of a button.

Weight wise, is there that much difference between a Z8 and a D500?

A Z500 would probably have 24MP, and is that really enough of an increase over crop mode from Z8?

Perhaps a Z500 would come in at a lower price, but not by a large margin, I think.
Click to expand...
With the Z system already having a decent selection of long telephotos I think there could be a market for it.

It probably would be 24-30ish MP since we're likely talking the next generation of sensors from what's out now so a bit higher than the DX crop mode of the Z8 (19MP) so that helps a bit. And if the price could be around that of the Z6 kinda like the D500/D750's being similar that would be an attractive camera for someone who needs more range.

The big thing I'm waiting for with Z is for the AF from the Z9 to trickle down and if I could get a body to directly replace my D500 on top of the 2 D750's that would be ideal.
 
sportyaccordy said:
I'm an uninterested observer, but I think the most realistic outcome will be something in the middle- the current Sony 26 MP non stacked sensor with an Expeed 7 processor in a Z6/7 style body (that means IBIS and the 3.6MP EVF). Under that I could see a Z90 with the same sensor in a more budget body at a lower price point. A baby Z8 is fan fiction IMO and there are a lot of obvious reasons why.
Click to expand...
 
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
  • Alex Permit wrote:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
Click to expand...
Not if you're using an FX lens. I only used FX lenses on my D500's. Unlikely you'll hit the FX lenses resolving power on a 45mp sensor. 50/50 on a 60mp sensor. You're just using the wrong Lenese if you're using DX lenses on an FX body.

The D500's 20.9mp APS-C sensor's pixel density is that of a 48mp FF sensor.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered using a DX lens on an FX body. I tried it on my D5 just to see if it would work.

I also used FF lenses on my D500. While the D500 was smaller and lighter than my D5, and DX equivalents were smaller too, I primarily bought it because it offered the same Multi-CAM 20K autofocus module as my D5 and a higher resolution than a DX crop from the 20.8 MP FF D5 sensor.

In my experience, Nikon's current S-line Z lenses significantly outperform their F-mount counterparts in sharpness. I conjecture that the difference between a 45mp and 60mp sensor would be noticeable when using these lenses, particularly at the center where the DX crop is located.
Click to expand...
You will not notice much of any difference between a 45mp vs 60mp sensors in IQ. If you are cropping in as far as you can to just before the point of pixelation, you will notice you can crop a touch further, but the IQ difference is so negligible doubtful you will notice in real world images.

Don't forget the higher the MP, the more that sensor will show flaws on your technique. That may very well be the reason most don't see a difference in IQ between the two. Also, a 4k monitor will also have limit of noticeable IQ differences. At some point the monitor you are looking at the images with will not be able to produce more detail/IQ
Click to expand...
I think of it as going from a 22.8mp DX sensor to a 30mp DX sensor. It's a 60% jump in sensor resolution, which is not the doubling I got between my D5 and D500. Sixty percent is not enough for me, but I can see how it could be for some. I agree to achieve that 30mp resolution from a DX sensor will put more of a burden on your shooting technique. Luckily Nikon has been improving its VR systems since the old D5 days, so camera shake is less of an issue. But other problems, such as nailing focus, get magnified with increasing sensor resolution.
Click to expand...
I've seen the difference in 61mp images and 45mo images on a 4k monitor. In blind side by side comparisons, at 4 people comparing couldn't tell the difference. Good luck to anyone else to consistently see the difference. You'll be guessing more times than not
Click to expand...
Yes but the proposed "Z500" DX sensor is 30 mp, and the Z8 DX crop is 22.8 mp. Not saying you could see that difference on a 4k monitor either.
Click to expand...
The Z8 is 45.7mp. in DX crop that will be a 19.2mp, not 22.8. lol

--
Eric
Wildlife/BIF Hunter: Nikon Z9 is my weapon of choice, the 800mm f6.3 PF is my ammo.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nikondoesabodygood/
 
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It would have been a wee bit more helpful if the poll had asked those who answered YES to the question "Do you want a Z500 body" - what resolution AND what are you willing to pay?

Based on the responses in this thread AND soo soo soo many others - a 19.5 MP or 21MP resolution DX sensor is not what is being sought for by many.

The expectation is that a Z500 (or Z80 or Z90) will come with some much much higher resolution sensor. [I can argue (again) that 26MP would appear to be the better of the higher MP options to broaden the appeal of such a body since this would enable 6k (like the Fuji X-H2s) while at the same time deliver the data and speed of sensor performance that an expeed 7 chip would appear to need)]

BUT then we get to the price -- I see no reason why such a highly performing tool would cost much less than the Z8 to build; why given the scale of market for a Z8 and the much much smaller scale of market for a DX version with higher pixel density and therefore lower IQ such a Z500 would be priced significantly less that $4k. HOWEVER -- many appear to dream for a $2000-2500 priced body and they then sight the competition. I therefore continue to say then please do look in detail at the Fuji or even OM bodies or even the R7/R10 and look very very hard at what these deliver, their real limitations and then make an slightly more informed wish list -- varying your demands to what 2k, 2.5k or even 3k can buy.

As many have said - there appears to be a broad consensus that a Nikon Z6iii will emerge next -- probably with a 26-31 MP stacked BSI CMOS sensor. It will use an Expeed 7 chip to ensure uniformity across this generation of Nikon bodies.

What Nikon does with the Z7ii, Z5, Z50 and may introduce as a Zf or heaven help us a Zm (the alleged Medium format dream of some) only time will tell.
 
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
Alex Permit said:
EricK214 said:
EricK214 said:
  • Alex Permit wrote:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
cosmicnode said:
Alex Permit said:
My D500 isn't considerably smaller than a D850. I'm not convinced that incorporating an APS-C sensor into a camera with Z8 features will lead to a noticeably smaller camera.
Click to expand...
The two DSLR bodies are basically the same size, and so is the Z8 so I agree with you, that's why I would like the Z500 to have the same body as a Z8.
Click to expand...
I see. It's definitely possible to develop a stacked 30MP APS-C sensor and integrate it into a Z8 body with Z8 features. May I ask, if you don't desire a smaller camera and have no plans to use smaller DX lenses, what would make you choose a Z500 instead of purchasing a Z8? Is it primarily a matter of cost? Or do you consistently shoot in DX mode and prefer 30MP from a dedicated sensor over the 22MP cropped image from a Z8?
Click to expand...
Give me a Z8 for £2000, but that would not have the reach of say 33mp with a DX crop body' I can use a 80-400 and have the equivalent FOV of a 600mm lens for distant action. The equivalent crop from a FF 45mp camera would be around 20mp. a 33mp crop sensor would give a crop to m4/3 from DX that would give a 800mm FOV with 20mp, What is the cost of a 800mm lens for FF? I used to use 2 bodies, a D800 with 36mp and a D500. Should Nikon produce a Z500 with 30mp plus I would consider a Z7 as well.
Click to expand...
That's a logical perspective. When you consistently require "more reach" than what a particular lens can offer, having a higher megapixel APS-C sensor can be more advantageous compared to a pricier full-frame (FF) sensor when cropped. It's the very reason why I bought my D500 as well.
Click to expand...
Not if you're using an FX lens. I only used FX lenses on my D500's. Unlikely you'll hit the FX lenses resolving power on a 45mp sensor. 50/50 on a 60mp sensor. You're just using the wrong Lenese if you're using DX lenses on an FX body.

The D500's 20.9mp APS-C sensor's pixel density is that of a 48mp FF sensor.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered using a DX lens on an FX body. I tried it on my D5 just to see if it would work.

I also used FF lenses on my D500. While the D500 was smaller and lighter than my D5, and DX equivalents were smaller too, I primarily bought it because it offered the same Multi-CAM 20K autofocus module as my D5 and a higher resolution than a DX crop from the 20.8 MP FF D5 sensor.

In my experience, Nikon's current S-line Z lenses significantly outperform their F-mount counterparts in sharpness. I conjecture that the difference between a 45mp and 60mp sensor would be noticeable when using these lenses, particularly at the center where the DX crop is located.
Click to expand...
You will not notice much of any difference between a 45mp vs 60mp sensors in IQ. If you are cropping in as far as you can to just before the point of pixelation, you will notice you can crop a touch further, but the IQ difference is so negligible doubtful you will notice in real world images.

Don't forget the higher the MP, the more that sensor will show flaws on your technique. That may very well be the reason most don't see a difference in IQ between the two. Also, a 4k monitor will also have limit of noticeable IQ differences. At some point the monitor you are looking at the images with will not be able to produce more detail/IQ
Click to expand...
I think of it as going from a 22.8mp DX sensor to a 30mp DX sensor. It's a 60% jump in sensor resolution, which is not the doubling I got between my D5 and D500. Sixty percent is not enough for me, but I can see how it could be for some. I agree to achieve that 30mp resolution from a DX sensor will put more of a burden on your shooting technique. Luckily Nikon has been improving its VR systems since the old D5 days, so camera shake is less of an issue. But other problems, such as nailing focus, get magnified with increasing sensor resolution.
Click to expand...
I've seen the difference in 61mp images and 45mo images on a 4k monitor. In blind side by side comparisons, at 4 people comparing couldn't tell the difference. Good luck to anyone else to consistently see the difference. You'll be guessing more times than not
Click to expand...
Yes but the proposed "Z500" DX sensor is 30 mp, and the Z8 DX crop is 22.8 mp. Not saying you could see that difference on a 4k monitor either.
Click to expand...
The Z8 is 45.7mp. in DX crop that will be a 19.2mp, not 22.8. lol
Click to expand...
Ouch that was a stupid mistake :-). Why did i keep diving by two when I know its 1.6
 
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