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Does your 1D show the same banding ?

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Danny@canonians

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I mentioned this in another tread but as I didn't get many replies to it ,
I take the freedom to start a new one . Hope you don't mind .
My new 1D shows banding in underexposed areas and , this from ISO200.
Samples here :
http://www.canonians.com/1dbanding.htm
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for repair ?
All experiences highly welcome .
Thank you in advance .

Danny
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
 
I think it went buy and no one paid any attention to it. If you are interested in the linked images (they have been removed) I can email them.

Steven
Danny@canonians said:
I mentioned this in another tread but as I didn't get many replies
to it ,
I take the freedom to start a new one . Hope you don't mind .
My new 1D shows banding in underexposed areas and , this from ISO200.
Samples here :
http://www.canonians.com/1dbanding.htm
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for
repair ?
All experiences highly welcome .
Thank you in advance .

Danny
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
Click to expand...
--
---
New and Updated!!!
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image_a_week
 
ALL digital cameras band and show other noise in shadow areas, period. The EOS-1D is especially susceptible ... and that's the main reason Canon published the latest firmware, which has two NR modes.

In the studio, I turn it off ... as I tend to shoot high key. The same for most wildlife photos ... but where there will be deep shadows, I turn it on.

Others use NeatImage to take care of it ... DavidP seems to be the expert on this.

To minimize the effect, shoot your photos so that the histogram is almost all of the way to the right ...
Ken
Danny@canonians said:
I mentioned this in another tread but as I didn't get many replies
to it ,
I take the freedom to start a new one . Hope you don't mind .
My new 1D shows banding in underexposed areas and , this from ISO200.
Samples here :
http://www.canonians.com/1dbanding.htm
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for
repair ?
All experiences highly welcome .
Thank you in advance .

Danny
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
Click to expand...
--

'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
 
My 1D showed banding at ISO 400 and even 200. I loved the image quality and the camera overall was solid as a rock. I returned it and have decided to wait it out for the replacement.

My D100 never showed banding, even with underexposure. Image quality was terrific too. The 1D quality looked excellent, a step above the D100, but the banding at least on my camera was too noticeable.

Ken, one thing I don't understand is your recommendation to have 'histogram almost all the way to right'. I have a lot to learn about photography, but to me it seems there are many times were a properly exposed image will have information across the entire range of the histogram, from dark to light. It's not as easy as just purposely overexposing in order to avoid the banding problem. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, if I am please set me straight because I want to know. I have many photos that have both dark and light bokeh along with dark shadows, where the subject is properly exposed. The darker background and shadows in these photos is desirable, at least to me in some situations. My concern with the 1D is with these kinds of photos specifically. Well, I think I just got a bad unit and I certainly am not questioning the 1D's capabilities.
Ken Phillips said:
Danny@canonians said:
I mentioned this in another tread but as I didn't get many replies
to it ,
I take the freedom to start a new one . Hope you don't mind .
My new 1D shows banding in underexposed areas and , this from ISO200.
Samples here :
http://www.canonians.com/1dbanding.htm
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for
repair ?
All experiences highly welcome .
Thank you in advance .

Danny
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
Click to expand...
--
'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to
begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
Click to expand...
 
Ken Phillips said:
and that's the
main reason Canon published the latest firmware, which has two NR
modes.
Click to expand...
It is my understanding the this NR only kicks in at (very) long exposure times.

Regards
Stefan

--

»We've experienced the fact that the perceptions of an expert surpass the precision of measuring instruments.« Nakabayashi-san of Canon, Inc.
 
Danny@canonians said:
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for
repair ?
Click to expand...
From where I'm at, this looks to be about normal for the 1D in shadow areas. Try to overexpose as much as possible, just make sure you don't lose any highlights by keeping a close eye on the histogram. Rich exposure will provide some relief but it won't make the noise and banding disappear completely.

Regards
Stefan

--

»We've experienced the fact that the perceptions of an expert surpass the precision of measuring instruments.« Nakabayashi-san of Canon, Inc.
 
I don't see any banding in those shots to speak of.

If you do, I submit that you have your monitor way too bright.

I'll bet if you print the images, you won't see any banding, either.

That looks pretty normal to me.
Danny@canonians said:
I mentioned this in another tread but as I didn't get many replies
to it ,
I take the freedom to start a new one . Hope you don't mind .
My new 1D shows banding in underexposed areas and , this from ISO200.
Samples here :
http://www.canonians.com/1dbanding.htm
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for
repair ?
All experiences highly welcome .
Thank you in advance .
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
 
I didn't see any in the crops. But I can see a slight banding pattern (certainly at ISO 1600, almost gone at ISO 800) in the upper portion of the images when viewing the entire image.

Again, this is pretty normal.

It won't show when printing.
DavidP said:
I don't see any banding in those shots to speak of.

If you do, I submit that you have your monitor way too bright.

I'll bet if you print the images, you won't see any banding, either.

That looks pretty normal to me.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
 
Thank you , Ken .
I will try that .
Best regards ,

Danny
Ken Phillips said:
ALL digital cameras band and show other noise in shadow areas,
period. The EOS-1D is especially susceptible ... and that's the
main reason Canon published the latest firmware, which has two NR
modes.
In the studio, I turn it off ... as I tend to shoot high key. The
same for most wildlife photos ... but where there will be deep
shadows, I turn it on.
Others use NeatImage to take care of it ... DavidP seems to be the
expert on this.
To minimize the effect, shoot your photos so that the histogram is
almost all of the way to the right ...
Ken
Click to expand...
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
 
Thank you Stefan .
I had been thinking about that . It just is going to be difficult to forget
the habits of the old Ektachrome days ...
Best regards ,

Danny
Stefan Schott said:
Danny@canonians said:
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for
repair ?
Click to expand...
From where I'm at, this looks to be about normal for the 1D in
shadow areas. Try to overexpose as much as possible, just make sure
you don't lose any highlights by keeping a close eye on the
histogram. Rich exposure will provide some relief but it won't make
the noise and banding disappear completely.

Regards
Stefan

--
»We've experienced the fact that the perceptions of an expert
surpass the precision of measuring instruments.« Nakabayashi-san of
Canon, Inc.
Click to expand...
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
 
Thank you too , David .
I will make prints of my ' bad ' images to see how they come out .
And use NeatImage ...
I like my 1D so much I'd hate to send it in for repair .
Best regards ,

Danny
DavidP said:
Again, this is pretty normal.

It won't show when printing.
DavidP said:
I don't see any banding in those shots to speak of.

If you do, I submit that you have your monitor way too bright.

I'll bet if you print the images, you won't see any banding, either.

That looks pretty normal to me.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
Click to expand...
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
 
Danny,

I see quite a lot of banding in the flower image, similar to what I was getting in my shots. I don't see banding in the dog images (looked at ISO 200 to 800 only), but they do seem somewhat noisy at ISO 400 and above. I disagree with Ken that all DSLR's will show banding but I agree about noise. I've taken thousands of images with a D100 and I've never seen banding. And believe me, I've taken my share of underexposed images. The D100 produces an even, smooth bokeh that is very pleasing. I found the banding im my 1D to be distracting. Honestly, I never did one print with my 1D images but I tend to agree that it probably wouldn't have shown up. I want to do large prints with most of my work and my concern was that interpolation would just magnify the banding problem. But again, my camera was probably producing more banding than normal. I hope you don't have the same problem.
Danny@canonians said:
I mentioned this in another tread but as I didn't get many replies
to it ,
I take the freedom to start a new one . Hope you don't mind .
My new 1D shows banding in underexposed areas and , this from ISO200.
Samples here :
http://www.canonians.com/1dbanding.htm
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for
repair ?
All experiences highly welcome .
Thank you in advance .

Danny
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
Click to expand...
 
Carl ,

I will try to reconsider my exposure habits and do the metering half way between high and low lights . The dynamic range of the 1D should allow this without too many hurts . At least , I hope so !
Also will I interpolate to 13x19 and send the files for printing .

If the banding/noise still occurs , I'm afraid I will have consider to send my 1D in for repair ...

I never used a D100 but , also , my 10D never produced this kind of behaviour . I can't wait to see the results .
Best regards ,

Danny
Carl Snyder said:
I see quite a lot of banding in the flower image, similar to what I
was getting in my shots. I don't see banding in the dog images
(looked at ISO 200 to 800 only), but they do seem somewhat noisy at
ISO 400 and above. I disagree with Ken that all DSLR's will show
banding but I agree about noise. I've taken thousands of images
with a D100 and I've never seen banding. And believe me, I've
taken my share of underexposed images. The D100 produces an even,
smooth bokeh that is very pleasing. I found the banding im my 1D
to be distracting. Honestly, I never did one print with my 1D
images but I tend to agree that it probably wouldn't have shown up.
I want to do large prints with most of my work and my concern was
that interpolation would just magnify the banding problem. But
again, my camera was probably producing more banding than normal.
I hope you don't have the same problem.
Carl Snyder said:
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
 
Thaks ! I start to recover ( slowly but strongly ) from my disapointment about my 1D's banding issue . I reconsidered my workflow and the results are encouraging . I run NeatImage on the rough Tiff files . In the editing process , I avoid using Auto Contrast in PS and do only some doctoring with Curves and applying USM . My images are much cleaner already and much more satisfying . I'm still trying to enhance somewhat the contrast without ruining the images . Oh , I forget to thank you , DavidP , for your 10D profiles for NeatImage . So , thank you !

Best regards ,

Danny

Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
 
That is EXCATLY why I returned my brand new 1D. I have a 10D and have none of those problems. I am now waiting for the 1D replacement which I sincerely hope has none of those problems.
 
I had the same issue and did not like it - even if forum members made me think it may seem okay. I got bugged and got rid of the issue in the 1D by repair.
 
... as long as your photo (or at least the elements that you want to capture) fits within the dynamic range of the camera. If you have a little room at either end of the histo, bumping it to the right will reduce shadow noise.

It's simply working within the 'lattitude' of the film and/or sensor, NOT overexposure!
Ken
Carl Snyder said:
My D100 never showed banding, even with underexposure. Image
quality was terrific too. The 1D quality looked excellent, a step
above the D100, but the banding at least on my camera was too
noticeable.

Ken, one thing I don't understand is your recommendation to have
'histogram almost all the way to right'. I have a lot to learn
about photography, but to me it seems there are many times were a
properly exposed image will have information across the entire
range of the histogram, from dark to light. It's not as easy as
just purposely overexposing in order to avoid the banding problem.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, if I am please set me straight because
I want to know. I have many photos that have both dark and light
bokeh along with dark shadows, where the subject is properly
exposed. The darker background and shadows in these photos is
desirable, at least to me in some situations. My concern with the
1D is with these kinds of photos specifically. Well, I think I
just got a bad unit and I certainly am not questioning the 1D's
capabilities.
Ken Phillips said:
Danny@canonians said:
I mentioned this in another tread but as I didn't get many replies
to it ,
I take the freedom to start a new one . Hope you don't mind .
My new 1D shows banding in underexposed areas and , this from ISO200.
Samples here :
http://www.canonians.com/1dbanding.htm
Is this the normal output of the 1D or should I send it in for
repair ?
All experiences highly welcome .
Thank you in advance .

Danny
--
Wheelie
webmaster http://www.canonians.com
Shooting the world from a wheelchair !
Click to expand...
--
'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to
begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--

'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
 
http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/dc/PDF/EOS1D_NR2-e.pdf

I believe that Chuck Westfall said that Mode 2 worked on ALL shots. In practice, it appears that way to me!
Ken
Stefan Schott said:
Ken Phillips said:
and that's the
main reason Canon published the latest firmware, which has two NR
modes.
Click to expand...
It is my understanding the this NR only kicks in at (very) long
exposure times.

Regards
Stefan

--
»We've experienced the fact that the perceptions of an expert
surpass the precision of measuring instruments.« Nakabayashi-san of
Canon, Inc.
Click to expand...
--

'Don't hope your pictures will 'turn out' ... make them good to begin with'. Oft said by my late father.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
 
Actually, it IS overexposing. It has some good points (as you pointed out) and some bad points.

It's hard to get a "low key" image by "exposing to the right".

And many times, "low key" is the way you really want the image to be.
Ken Phillips said:
... as long as your photo (or at least the elements that you want
to capture) fits within the dynamic range of the camera. If you
have a little room at either end of the histo, bumping it to the
right will reduce shadow noise.
It's simply working within the 'lattitude' of the film and/or
sensor, NOT overexposure!
Click to expand...
--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!
 
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