Biggest camera flop of all time?

With that said, I am wondering what people here think has been the biggest camera flop of all time. My nomination is Nikon Key Mission.
(Thinking fairly recent digital cameras ... didn't consider film).

Nikon 1 ... not as ill-received as Key Mission, but more invested in it.

Hasselblad's Sony ripoffs.

Pontiac Aztek. Pentax K-01.

Probably most Sigma cameras. Except Sigma doesn't seem to care whether they sell.
Always wondered how they can afford developing those interesting and attractive left field cameras which can hardly pay for themselves. I have the 3 compact Merrills which are not so weird but clunky enough that I haven't used them in about 2 years. The IQ is stunning though. Apparently lenses sell well enough to support the propeller head department which I am happy about as it makes the camera market a tad less boring and the designs are rather nice.
 
Some good calls on this. I've a few comments, then my own nomination...

Disk - well yes, it was dreadful, but I really liked it precisely for that reason. I had a Halina camera with a simple meniscus lens that I picked up in a bargain box for 50 pence - essentially almost free. This was so terrible, allied to the tiny neg size and the quality of films at the time, so terrible that results didn't really look like photos - more like impressionist paintings. And I absolutely adored that. It was a very sad day for me when films and processing stopped being available. Very early sub-VGA digital cameras, and especially non-smart camera phones are the only thing that have got close since.

APS - in many ways, its legacy lives on, particularly in the form of APS-C sensors. But timing in particular was bad for APS - yes, digital was just around the corner when it came in, but most 35mm cameras available by that point had easy load systems that largely eliminated the main advantage of APS. However, more than that, many of the key features were never really exploited, for various reasons. Mid roll rewind/reload - well that wasn't that big of a deal when there was such a paucity of film stock to choose from - aside from colour print film broadly in ISO 200 or 400, there was one black and white film, and one colour slide film - and both of those were not exactly easy to track down.
The smaller format was supposed to be made up for by new film technology, so that results would be as good as 35mm. But when that technology made it into 35mm film, the gap remained. The multi-format idea - well did anybody actually use APS-C? And plenty of 35mm cameras had masks that would crop to a pano format. I did use an EOS IX alongside my 35mm EOS cameras, and it was a nice camera - but limited with wideangle lenses, thanks to the smaller format, and limited in terms of film choice. Oh, and of course processing and printing was dearer than for 35mm... (I also own an IX7/IX Lite, an Ixus, and a Minolta Vectis S-1, but the IX was by far the best of the bunch.)

Nikon 1 - a nice idea, but not sure the technology of the time was quite ready for it.

Lytro - enough said.

Pentax Q - definitely the technology wasn't ready for this one. I've 2 Q bodies and a selection of lenses, I wanted to make this my travel system, but it really wasn't up to it. IQ just isn't there, particularly in low light - and for me, travel means shooting in churches and museums, at night, you name it.

So next a couple of contenders before my actual nomination:

Original 4/3 system - I never did get the point of this. Tiny (110 film sized) sensors in generally large (full frame/35mm) sized bodies, the acme of idiocy IMHO. MFT is just such a much more sensible use of sensors that size. The actual adoption of the original 4/3 standard speaks for itself.

Kodak SLR/C, and to a lesser extent the SLR/N and 14N. Kodak were of course dominant in DSLRs to start with, pretty much all of them aimed at the press market. Once their agreement with Canon finished, Canon worked very hard to catch up with the market, and launched quite a few key cameras. Kodak suddenly found themselves struggling to catch up themselves. Their partnership with Nikon allowed them to build several models based on Nikon film cameras, but IMHO they picked the wrong horse with the F80 (N80) instead of the F/N 100. But they couldn't do that with Canon, so instead launched the SLR/C based on a Sigma body - the SA-9, from memory. And the result is, well, something of a mess. Yes, it's full frame, and these cameras were designed to be upgradeable - but apart from a memory upgrade to the 14N, I don't believe anything ever was upgraded. The SLR/C was an ugly camera that feels pretty terrible in the hand until you get it nesting right,and even then... and the controls are incomprehensible to a Canon shooter. Results at low ISO are very good indeed, but start to fall apart pretty quickly after that. And at launch, it was up against the EOS 1Ds, and before long, it had the 5D to look ridiculous against. I do still use mine occasionally, but basically this was aarguably the camera that finished Kodak off as a serious camera maker.

And my winner is - not actually a camera. In fact it's not really a product at all, pure vapourware. Digital Film. A splendid idea, a way of adapting pretty much any 35mm film camera as a digital camera - but the problems ensured it never made it to market. This would have been brilliant if they could have got it to work when first announced, when digital cameras were still prohibitively expensive, and nothing like as well-featured as film cameras. And the idea of taking digital photos on an old classic - yes please. But it never became real, so for that reason, it has to be my contender for biggest flop of all time.
 
Yes, the Hasselblad Lunar gets my vote as well. There was nothing wrong with the Sony NEX-7, but adding a big grip and some bling was a terrible idea.

Hasselblad's image as a camera maker for professionals suffered.
 
"The multi-format idea - well did anybody actually use APS-C? And plenty of 35mm cameras had masks that would crop to a pano format."

The difference with APS was that the camera* always exposed the full frame (called H) but the lab printed the size you wanted (C,H or P) however if you changed your mind you could switch size when re-ordering.

40db3107da0c4589ac594049553ca081.jpg

*some of the entry level cameras masked the neg instead of digitaly marking it.
 
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"The multi-format idea - well did anybody actually use APS-C? And plenty of 35mm cameras had masks that would crop to a pano format."

The difference with APS was that the camera* always exposed the full frame (called H) but the lab printed the size you wanted (C,H or P) however if you changed your mind you could switch size when re-ordering.

*some of the entry level cameras masked the neg instead of digitaly marking it.
Indeed, but again, did anybody actually use any of that functionality? At least apart from playing with it early on?

And yes, a lot of cheaper cameras didn't use all the functionality - including the mid-roll rewind and reload ability, as well as format selection.
 
My very first camera was an APS camera. Some cheap Olympus one. I believe it was the Newpix XB AF. I was about 22 at the time. Took some great pictures with it.

I gave it away when I went digital. Now, one of my favourite film cameras is the Olympus Pen F, which is half frame (about the same size as APS-C).
 
"The multi-format idea - well did anybody actually use APS-C? And plenty of 35mm cameras had masks that would crop to a pano format."

The difference with APS was that the camera* always exposed the full frame (called H) but the lab printed the size you wanted (C,H or P) however if you changed your mind you could switch size when re-ordering.

*some of the entry level cameras masked the neg instead of digitaly marking it.
Indeed, but again, did anybody actually use any of that functionality? At least apart from playing with it early on?

And yes, a lot of cheaper cameras didn't use all the functionality - including the mid-roll rewind and reload ability, as well as format selection.
Yes, they did.

We printed a LOT of APS films.

We had people coming in with 10-15 rolls of film mostly because they had fun fiddling with the new features.

keep in mind that I am talking about the general public not the sort of people that have photography as a serious hobby and in particular not those that post here....
 
"The multi-format idea - well did anybody actually use APS-C? And plenty of 35mm cameras had masks that would crop to a pano format."

The difference with APS was that the camera* always exposed the full frame (called H) but the lab printed the size you wanted (C,H or P) however if you changed your mind you could switch size when re-ordering.

*some of the entry level cameras masked the neg instead of digitaly marking it.
Indeed, but again, did anybody actually use any of that functionality? At least apart from playing with it early on?

And yes, a lot of cheaper cameras didn't use all the functionality - including the mid-roll rewind and reload ability, as well as format selection.
Yes, they did.

We printed a LOT of APS films.

We had people coming in with 10-15 rolls of film mostly because they had fun fiddling with the new features.

keep in mind that I am talking about the general public not the sort of people that have photography as a serious hobby and in particular not those that post here....
Ok, thanks. I've always wondered.
 
The Nikon 1 system wasn’t a startling success either.
The entire APS project can’t really be considered a success and I am sure there are other abject failures that I currently can’t recall.
the Nikon J1 was the best selling mirrorless camera in Japan for one year, i like the cameras but the whole idea of them is muddled
 
With that said, I am wondering what people here think has been the biggest camera flop of all time. My nomination is Nikon Key Mission.
(Thinking fairly recent digital cameras ... didn't consider film).

Nikon 1 ... not as ill-received as Key Mission, but more invested in it.

Hasselblad's Sony ripoffs.

Pontiac Aztek. Pentax K-01.

Probably most Sigma cameras. Except Sigma doesn't seem to care whether they sell.
LOL at the Aztec.

One of my authors was a GM engineer, and he said the concept version of the Aztec was really well received and a bit different looking than the production model. It had much bigger wheels and tires, and the beltline was different.

When all the compromises occurred for the production model, it was like a very different vehicle.
 
From my limited knowledge. APS failed because digital took the industry by storm. Would it still even have a footing or place if digital didn't exist? Or would the smaller format still be too much of a tradeoff.
Disclaimer. I still have a working Pronea S and one cart of APS film left in my freezer. IMO, APS would have failed anyway. To see why, let's look at what, at least in theory, it brought to the party.

  • Multiformat (C, H, P) -- This had the potential to allow automated cropping and enlarging. In real life, though, most minilabs and minilab operators ignored the instructions and printed either at 4x6" or 4x7".
  • Automatic Loading -- Consumer grade 35mm cameras soon embraced this feature.
  • Magnetic recording of shooting data -- This suffered from the same issue as Multiformat. Not all APS cameras actually recorded the data, and most processors simply ignored it.
  • A few more shots per roll -- Check. 25 vs 24 and 40 vs. 36.
  • T-grain film -- Quickly migrated to 35mm film as well.
  • Mid roll switch -- This was more interesting to professionals than the target consumer market. I think a couple of 35mm P&S also built in this feature.
  • Smaller footprint -- Canon had some success with their ELPH series pitching a camera as a fashion accessory.
Now, let's look at the disadvantages.

  • More expensive per shot. Labs charged a dollar or two extra to process APS, even if you didn't have it printed. (I used WalMart's "CD-Only" service).
  • An entrenched competitor in 35mm.
  • Lower quality than 35mm due to less film "real estate."
  • Less film choice. E6 APS film never made it to the United States and the only B&W film was chromogenic.
  • Impractical for home processing or analog darkroom techniques.
The result was even without digital, APS found itself in a market squeeze. At the low end were one-use (disposable) cameras. For mid-range and higher priced cameras, enthusiasts stayed with 35mm. And as camera companies kept improving 35mm point-and-shoots, the remaining features couldn't offset the basic issue of lower quality at higher cost.
 
The Nikon 1 system wasn’t a startling success either.
The entire APS project can’t really be considered a success and I am sure there are other abject failures that I currently can’t recall.
the Nikon J1 was the best selling mirrorless camera in Japan for one year, i like the cameras but the whole idea of them is muddled
 
The Nikon 1 system wasn’t a startling success either.
The entire APS project can’t really be considered a success and I am sure there are other abject failures that I currently can’t recall.
the Nikon J1 was the best selling mirrorless camera in Japan for one year, i like the cameras but the whole idea of them is muddled
As it happens I have a 1J5, the one failing, for me, is the absence of a viewfinder. Much of the technology ended up in the Z series. As a technology demonstrator/experimental camera it did rather well but the original 10-30 lens has a design flaw and working examples are becoming difficult to find. I consider it a flop because the range never settled into anything.
 
With that said, I am wondering what people here think has been the biggest camera flop of all time. My nomination is Nikon Key Mission.
(Thinking fairly recent digital cameras ... didn't consider film).

Nikon 1 ... not as ill-received as Key Mission, but more invested in it.

Hasselblad's Sony ripoffs.

Pontiac Aztek. Pentax K-01.

Probably most Sigma cameras. Except Sigma doesn't seem to care whether they sell.
LOL at the Aztec.

One of my authors was a GM engineer, and he said the concept version of the Aztec was really well received and a bit different looking than the production model. It had much bigger wheels and tires, and the beltline was different.

When all the compromises occurred for the production model, it was like a very different vehicle.
Nothing unusual in that. Few production cars, cameras, aircraft etc. bear much resemblance to the concept.
 
With that said, I am wondering what people here think has been the biggest camera flop of all time. My nomination is Nikon Key Mission.
(Thinking fairly recent digital cameras ... didn't consider film).

Nikon 1 ... not as ill-received as Key Mission, but more invested in it.

Hasselblad's Sony ripoffs.

Pontiac Aztek. Pentax K-01.

Probably most Sigma cameras. Except Sigma doesn't seem to care whether they sell.
LOL at the Aztec.

One of my authors was a GM engineer, and he said the concept version of the Aztec was really well received and a bit different looking than the production model. It had much bigger wheels and tires, and the beltline was different.

When all the compromises occurred for the production model, it was like a very different vehicle.
Nothing unusual in that. Few production cars, cameras, aircraft etc. bear much resemblance to the concept.
Well that can go both ways. Some concept cars are engineering and design departments just flexing, with no serious plans at all for production. Looking at them you can just tell. Other times, like Chrysler with the Prowler and the Viper, the production models were very much the same, as with some of the Motorama cars for GM in the 50s.
 
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Nikon 1 - a nice idea, but not sure the technology of the time was quite ready for it.
The technology was more than ready. The higher end N1 cameras are nice tools. Nikon just made a mess of the system hierarchy, always skimping on some features. And the prices were high. The philosophy was We're not going to make this system as attractive as it can be because it might erode our DSLR sales. Kind of funny because DSLRs later became the 'flops'.
 
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Kodak spent 10 years developing the Disk system but in the end the negative was far too small (8x10mm) to get a decent shot using mass produced cheap plastic lenses .

A couple of the top of the line Minolta produced OK prints but were expensive anyway.

For reference the Minox subminiature format used 8x11mm negs but their lenses were very good indeed.

450510516a9f42f289216764c55ec950.jpg

The Minolta Disk 7, probably the first "selfie" camera ever.

84395a08b2cb43f488e6d7312c6ef0a0.jpg
There is a slight problem in calling the disc camera a flop, because Kodak alone sold over 26 million of these cameras (8 million in the first year) and their profit margins on the film were huge, so it was undoubtedly a commercial success.

The negative size of 8.2 x 10.6 mm was really just too small, despite the fact that they used advanced film technology than was then unavailable in any of the larger formats: Kodakcolor HR (finer T-Grain, with improved cyan-coupler), 200 ASA on a 7 mil Estar base. This cured the film flatness problems that were present in the previous 126 Instamatic and 110 cartridge camera systems but the greatly reduced negative area , even with use the very high resolution glass 4 element (one aspheric) 12.5 mm lens, offset these advantages. Kodak also wanted film developing and printing labs to use their 6 element enlarging lens, optimised for this tiny format but not all did and this also reduced the quality of prints.

When released in 1982 it caused as much excitement as other new cameras at the PMA and Photokina shows such as the Nikon FM2 and Canon AL-1.

So in conclusion: The Kodak lenses on the disc camera were extremely impressive in terms of resolution and for their use of an aspheric element in a budget lens, plus it would shoot at up to 3 frames a second. However, the discs only held 15 images limited by the camera size, which had to fit into a pocket (4.75 x 3 x 0.875 inches). Kodak's intent was that they would be used to produce 4 x 5 to 7 X 5 inch prints (even 8 X 10 inch is mentioned) but from a frame size similar to that of 16 mm movie film, was a step too far.

There is lots of good information on this format, at the link below.

https://mikeeckman.com/2022/11/kepplers-vault-103-kodak-disc-film/

NB. There is a company in the US that can scan disc film, using a specialised system at 3700 X 4700 pixels (17.39 MP) and it would be interesting to see how much detail is actually resolvable from this format. The Kodak lens is apparently close to diffraction limited and therefore the film would be the limiting factor (pages 1-2 in following link).

https://mcnygenealogy.com/book/kodak/kodakery-v40-n05.pdf
 
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The Nikon 1 system wasn’t a startling success either.
The entire APS project can’t really be considered a success and I am sure there are other abject failures that I currently can’t recall.
I am still using the Nikon 1 system and the small cameras are a pleasure to use, even in 2023, quick accurate focusing is the main strength.
 

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