Sharpness issue bringing me down

zakk_j · Nov 18, 2003

I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?

I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

Evil Eggplant · Nov 18, 2003

A dSLR does not have the sharpened output of a prosumer digicam (thank goodness) what you describe is quite normal. Make sure you're shooting in parameter 1. If you are and you're still not satisfied you can set up one of your three presets with a lot of contrast and sharpening.

ustad2be said:
I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

--
rich
'beware the eggplant'
c-7oo, d-51O, DSC-F7O7, 3OOD
'it's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got'
http://www.pbase.com/iceninevt

Stephen DeNagy106674 · Nov 18, 2003

All digital photos require some sharpening because of the way the algorithms make color and reject moire caused by the sensor pattern. How much and whether you sharpen will depend on end use.

I have the kit lens and it seems quite sharp with and without sharpening. I use Nik Sharpener Inkjet which can be set as an action, and is pretty unintrusive.

Try posting some images to let folks see what you mean.

--Steve

ustad2be said:
I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

DannyV · Nov 18, 2003

Post some unedited samples along with EXIF data of what you consider un-sharp. You could have a camera problem, lens problem, it might be a operational problem, or perhaps you just like pictures with extremely high levels of sharpening. Until we see some examples there is no way to tell.

ustad2be said:
I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

--
Daniel
http://www.pbase.com/dvogel11

zakk_j · Nov 18, 2003

Here is an unedited photo. I do not have the EXIF data for it.

DannyV said:
ustad2be said:

I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

--
Daniel
http://www.pbase.com/dvogel11

EOS.user · Nov 18, 2003

all dslr images require some degree of sharpening...

ustad2be said:
DannyV said:

ustad2be said:

I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

--
Daniel
http://www.pbase.com/dvogel11

Click to expand...

rpant · Nov 18, 2003

Your pic looks reasonable to me, but you didn't include any exif info so we can't tell what shutter speed/f.stop etc. Also what did you focus on? If you used the centre focus point it was around the bonnet area which I suspect would not be an easy subject for the camera to focus on.

One thing that I'm really happy with about the 300D is the shapness of the pictures. I like sharp results and with the sharpness set to +2 my camera does a great job. So much better than my G3.

Rob

maxrat · Nov 18, 2003

I agree that it looks pretty good. Change the depth of field (aperture) if you need more of the photo in focus. I would be interested to know where the focus points are in this photo. It would be much easier to tell if there truly is a problem with the equipment.
Maxrat

EOS.user said:
ustad2be said:

DannyV said:

ustad2be said:

I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

--
Daniel
http://www.pbase.com/dvogel11

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

johnd1 · Nov 19, 2003

You mean you actually purchased this camera without knowing that digital images from a dlsr benefit from require some degree of sharpening? What planet do you live on?
John

ustad2be said:
I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

Joe Farrugia · Nov 19, 2003

johnd1 said:
You mean you actually purchased this camera without knowing that
digital images from a dlsr benefit from require some degree of
sharpening? What planet do you live on?
John

John, I beg to differ.

There IS one DSLR that consistently produces excellent JPEGS straight out of camera.

Sharp; lowest noise, even at ISO 1600; lovely skin tones even on Auto White balance.

It's called the Fujifilm S2 Pro.

I assure you it doesn't need any sharpening (or post-processing) to produce excellent, saleable prints.

The con: it comes at a premium price, & you do have to have high quality glass to go with it.

Regards,

--

JF

emklap182922 · Nov 19, 2003

ustad2be said:
I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

emklap182922 · Nov 19, 2003

MKlap said:
ustad2be said:

I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

fotochop · Nov 19, 2003

johnd1 said:
You mean you actually purchased this camera without knowing that
digital images from a dlsr benefit from require some degree of
sharpening? What planet do you live on?

hehheh, a bit rough there johnd1 !! here on earth, one could be forgiven for not knowing that DSLR images are softer than compact digital images. the 300d caters for this anyway with the custom sharpening. sounds like ustad2be needs to get in there and set up a custom parameter (set1, set2 etc) and set sharpness to +2 which might suit her taste. (or his taste!).

--
'°¤¸,ø¤°'°ø,¸

Simon Courcha · Nov 19, 2003

Having looked at your sample it looks pretty good to me. In terms of 'sharpness' it looks much like the output from my camera - with kit lens. Compared to many of the fixed lens cameras the Canon sensor does seem to produce slightly softer images. However, I've now grown to like the results - especially when helped with a little post processing. When I campare these with photos from my Olympus C-4000z, the many of the Oly pics look oversharp to me.

A better lens may improve the situation somewhat, but from what I gather, within its sweet spot the kit lens does pretty well for sharpness.

As has been suggested, an you might like to experiment with the sharpness and contrast settings on the camera to get a result you're happier with. Personally I'm now using Parameter 2 which does produce softer and less saturated images than Parameter 1, but the images seem to respond a great deal better to USM and other post processing.

Raw workflow software might help with batch processing - I've only just started with it so I'm taking an uneducated guess.

Have you tried printing many images? I rarely print, but when I recently printed an image that looked a little soft on screen it came out looking perfect - I was quite taken aback. It may be that Canon has optimised standard sharpness levels for print output?

At the end of the day, if you're still not happy you might consider trading 'down' for a prosumer model that may provide the sort of output you want straight from the camera.

Simon C
http://www.eyematter.com

whazzup · Nov 19, 2003

All DR images need a little USM. If you have photoshop, you can set an action or a droplet to do it automatically. My current workflow is as such:

Open & crop
Auto contrast (learned the 4 finger method)
Check levels and adjust (if needed)
Use an action I created and have assigned a function key:
Convert to lab color
Select lightness channel
USM (10%, 30 pixels, 0 threshold) {clarification step}
USM (80%, 1.2 pixels, 5 threshold) {sharpen}
Convert to RGB
Save as JPEG 12 quality

I can now buzz through a couple of photos each minute. I am no pro, really just like taking snaps of my kids and their activities.

If you have Elements, you need to do this manually, and you can't use Lab color. You need to sharpen in RGB. There is a book called the Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements that allow you to install actions through a "hack". One of the actions allow you to convert to a Lab color like mode, if you want.

tomyeah · Nov 19, 2003

ustad2be said:
I've been using a 300D with the kit lens ever since it came out a
few months ago. I have to shapen every single image with photoshop
to make it right. Since I take a lot of pictures, its really time
consuming. What I need to know is, is this issue with the camera or
the lens? If the issue is with the lens, what other lens do you
suggest? If its the camera, what other camera do you suggest?
I use the camera for my work and only take pictures outside in
daylight. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 for a better lens if it
will resolve my issue.
Please advice.
Thanks in advance.

Charlie Ogard · Nov 19, 2003

whazzup said:
All DR images need a little USM. If you have photoshop, you can set
an action or a droplet to do it automatically. My current workflow
is as such:

Open & crop
Auto contrast (learned the 4 finger method)
Check levels and adjust (if needed)
Use an action I created and have assigned a function key:
Convert to lab color
Select lightness channel
USM (10%, 30 pixels, 0 threshold) {clarification step}
USM (80%, 1.2 pixels, 5 threshold) {sharpen}
Convert to RGB
Save as JPEG 12 quality

I can now buzz through a couple of photos each minute. I am no pro,
really just like taking snaps of my kids and their activities.

If you have Elements, you need to do this manually, and you can't
use Lab color. You need to sharpen in RGB. There is a book called
the Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements that allow you to install
actions through a "hack". One of the actions allow you to convert
to a Lab color like mode, if you want.

Would you mind sending me youe action as well?

Thanks Charlie O.

http://www.dbase.com/cogard

whazzup · Nov 19, 2003

Actions sent. Feel free to share. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but these work for me.

Dave Lewis · Nov 19, 2003

Post processing it half the trip with high end digitals. Sharpening is a large part of post processing. Most folks welcome the flexibility of a camera that gives you files with great potential rather than ones with the decisions already made for you.

If all that is too much trouble for you, you need to buy a consumer camera and sell me your digital Rebel for, say $495. (G)
--
Dave Lewis

Charlie Ogard · Nov 19, 2003

Charlie O.

Sharpness issue bringing me down

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