***DPReview Shutdown Thread -Nikon Z -Pt 2**

Amazon...rather than shut it down, tell us how much per month to keep it up and see how many sign up before April 10th. Maybe this is a money maker for you, Just a thought:)

Jack
Recently the cost to run DPR was estimated at about $3 to $3.5M per year. So about $250-300K per month. At about 4M page views/year, that's 1 to 1.3 cents per view. Assume that 25% of visitors are regulars and would pay for access. For dedicated users, that's about 40-55 cents per day assuming 10 pages viewed per visit (the average is closer to 3). Double that to give AMZ a good profit margin.
Is DPR worth a $15-17/month subscription per year to you? Remember how outraged users were at Adobe's $10/month for a LR/PS subscription.
Interesting...that's what I was looking for, a number. It does seem that a subscription, additional Amazon sales, a little advertising could save the site. Someone smarter than me would have to figure that out. Maybe they already did and that is why they are shutting it down:(

Jack
The truth is - it's very expensive to provide the kind of continually growing quality content - fora, articles, reviews, etc. - that attracts visitors to a site just on subscriptions alone, and visitors have been trained to expect that this content will cost them nothing. Thus, sites like this exist on advertising, or the subsidy of a parent organization employing it as a mode of advertising. With an 85% drop in market size since its 2012 peak, and hardware long past good enough for almost all users, it's mostly subsidy that keeps sites like this alive.

Anyone who's tried to keep a site "live" solo knows how hard it is.
 
Amazon...rather than shut it down, tell us how much per month to keep it up and see how many sign up before April 10th. Maybe this is a money maker for you, Just a thought:)

Jack
Recently the cost to run DPR was estimated at about $3 to $3.5M per year. So about $250-300K per month. At about 4M page views/year, that's 1 to 1.3 cents per view. Assume that 25% of visitors are regulars and would pay for access. For dedicated users, that's about 40-55 cents per day assuming 10 pages viewed per visit (the average is closer to 3). Double that to give AMZ a good profit margin.
Is DPR worth a $15-17/month subscription per year to you? Remember how outraged users were at Adobe's $10/month for a LR/PS subscription.
Interesting...that's what I was looking for, a number. It does seem that a subscription, additional Amazon sales, a little advertising could save the site. Someone smarter than me would have to figure that out. Maybe they already did and that is why they are shutting it down:(

Jack
Regarding advertising, see


add campaigns start at $35K minimum. A bit different than a CPC adds and on the Amazon shopping website.

Many entities that want to pay this much already have their own websites that come up prominently it web searches as well as adds elsewhere.

One thing I learned from a couple of hobby/recreation websites with forums that I followed is that social media platforms eventually killed their advertising revenue. Folks that used those forums were already familiar with the companies that produced related products. Repeat visits didn't generate new interest in those companies. So they ended their sponsorship and moved moved a lot of their advertising to social media outlets.

For products unrelated to the principle topics covered by forum websites, a better investment might be something like a CPC (Cost Per Click) advertising or sponsorship on shopping websites where someone searches for something generic, like toothpaste, or gym shorts, or writing instruments where a lot of similar products are sold (e.g. Amazon, Walmart, etc) and the add campaign helps get their product at or near the top of the search results.
 
Amazon...rather than shut it down, tell us how much per month to keep it up and see how many sign up before April 10th. Maybe this is a money maker for you, Just a thought:)

Jack
Recently the cost to run DPR was estimated at about $3 to $3.5M per year. So about $250-300K per month. At about 4M page views/year, that's 1 to 1.3 cents per view. Assume that 25% of visitors are regulars and would pay for access. For dedicated users, that's about 40-55 cents per day assuming 10 pages viewed per visit (the average is closer to 3). Double that to give AMZ a good profit margin.
Is DPR worth a $15-17/month subscription per year to you? Remember how outraged users were at Adobe's $10/month for a LR/PS subscription.
Interesting...that's what I was looking for, a number. It does seem that a subscription, additional Amazon sales, a little advertising could save the site. Someone smarter than me would have to figure that out. Maybe they already did and that is why they are shutting it down:(

Jack
The truth is - it's very expensive to provide the kind of continually growing quality content - fora, articles, reviews, etc. - that attracts visitors to a site just on subscriptions alone, and visitors have been trained to expect that this content will cost them nothing. Thus, sites like this exist on advertising, or the subsidy of a parent organization employing it as a mode of advertising. With an 85% drop in market size since its 2012 peak, and hardware long past good enough for almost all users, it's mostly subsidy that keeps sites like this alive.
Anyone who's tried to keep a site "live" solo knows how hard it is.
I don't have the numbers - overall revenue or cameras sold - at my hands. However, while the number of cameras sold globally has decreased dramatically since 2012 - bringing us back in the territory of the film era it seems - most of this decline has been in P&S cameras. There remains an extensive market of advanced users who spend significant amounts of money on bodies and lenses. And the camera makers have successfully enticed us to spend more on those bodies and lenses than in the past. As a result the average price per camera has gone up significantly, partly offsetting the decline in terms of revenue. To many of those advanced camera users dpreview is a valauble asset - and I would argue therefore important to amazon as well beyond the mere advertising revenue of the site.
 
We estimate how many users on DPR?
I'm off in my math - it's about 0.75-0.85 cents / view - still around $20/month. But number of members appears to be a proprietary amount.
Far too much of a Gouge, they bombard us with Ads so it shouldn't cost anything to be on this site.
Jake - it COSTS less than a penny per view to keep the site up. The site is, of course, free, paid by Ads.

To remove the ads DPR would need to charge around $20/month per subscriber.
 
We estimate how many users on DPR?
I'm off in my math - it's about 0.75-0.85 cents / view - still around $20/month. But number of members appears to be a proprietary amount.
Far too much of a Gouge, they bombard us with Ads so it shouldn't cost anything to be on this site.
Jake - it COSTS less than a penny per view to keep the site up. The site is, of course, free, paid by Ads.
To remove the ads DPR would need to charge around $20/month per subscriber.
I can ignore the Ads, I will not ignore $240/yr.
 
We estimate how many users on DPR?
I'm off in my math - it's about 0.75-0.85 cents / view - still around $20/month. But number of members appears to be a proprietary amount.
Far too much of a Gouge, they bombard us with Ads so it shouldn't cost anything to be on this site.
Jake - it COSTS less than a penny per view to keep the site up. The site is, of course, free, paid by Ads.
To remove the ads DPR would need to charge around $20/month per subscriber.
I can ignore the Ads, I will not ignore $240/yr.
As a point of comparison, The Economist Magazine costs about $240/yr. Most tech journals cost a multiple of that.

We have said here repeatedly that DPR is a valuable resource that should not go away. Then we turn around and say that we don't want to pay for it - let someone else do that. Wikipedia runs support campaigns frequently to stay alive.

As I said before, we've been conditioned to expect that fora should be free, like walking into a town square and striking up a conversation with another visitor is. But we support that town square through the taxes we pay. It's not really free. If we were to make visible the true cost of all that internet content, I suspect that the fora would go mostly quiet. Somewhat the same argument exists for the subscription software model - although it's primary function is to stabilize developer income.
 
I remember chatting with Phil in the forums. Richard. So many names who are gone now. Ronnie Gault, Shay and lots more. Their memories are still here. That's the hard part. They are throwing away the history and memories. Of so many people. And so many years.

I am grateful that we had it and bitter that we can't keep it.

I think I have bought my last gear from Amazon. They will always be the company who buried DPR. At least to me.
We go way back ;)
Yes we do, but you win by about a year... I'll miss your NY images... and the dancers...

I wish you good luck if we won't meet again. Thank you for all your images.
 
We estimate how many users on DPR?
I'm off in my math - it's about 0.75-0.85 cents / view - still around $20/month. But number of members appears to be a proprietary amount.
Far too much of a Gouge, they bombard us with Ads so it shouldn't cost anything to be on this site.
Jake - it COSTS less than a penny per view to keep the site up. The site is, of course, free, paid by Ads.
To remove the ads DPR would need to charge around $20/month per subscriber.
I can ignore the Ads, I will not ignore $240/yr.
As a point of comparison, The Economist Magazine costs about $240/yr. Most tech journals cost a multiple of that.
We have said here repeatedly that DPR is a valuable resource that should not go away. Then we turn around and say that we don't want to pay for it - let someone else do that. Wikipedia runs support campaigns frequently to stay alive.
As I said before, we've been conditioned to expect that fora should be free, like walking into a town square and striking up a conversation with another visitor is. But we support that town square through the taxes we pay. It's not really free. If we were to make visible the true cost of all that internet content, I suspect that the fora would go mostly quiet. Somewhat the same argument exists for the subscription software model - although it's primary function is to stabilize developer income.
You make valid points (The Economist can be had for $200 a year if you pay annually. FWIW) but I think there is one valid distinction. The Economist is not getting 75% of their content from their subscribers. If you eliminate our contributions, DPR becomes a photo tool and the same amount of reviews $15 a year magazines provide, give or take. I am paraphrasing but you get the gist.

And that I think dooms any sort of pay model.

I appreciate your bringing DPRs costs into play with actual numbers. I want to bold your post and sticky it to the top of every sub forum here. It really shuts down almost every argument except the moral play. That's the reality, that this site has probably been in the red for a very long time.
 
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No marketing department makes money per se. Actually it spends money, to promote products or services. If you separate marketing departments from the income produced by the promoted stuff, they are all and always in red. Amazon does not "sell" DPreview as a service or product. DPreview is used as a marketing tool, a marketing outlet. It is not a magazine, but a sell promotor, influencer,...call it what you want.

But truly I have no idea what amazon's sels figures are in the photo, video, lightning and similar departments. Could it be, that is not enough money made, to spend it on such "marketing tool" as DPreview...
 
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No marketing department makes money per se. Actually it spends money, to promote products or services. If you separate marketing departments from the income produced by the promoted stuff, they are all and always in red. Amazon does not "sell" DPreview as a service or product. DPreview is used as a marketing tool, a marketing outlet. It is not a magazine, but a sell promotor, influencer,...call it what you want.

But truly I have no idea what amazon's sels figures are in the photo, video, lightning and similar departments. Could it be, that is not enough money made, to spend it on such "marketing tool" as DPreview...
Well, that is how you determine the profitability of a website.

Its tough to gauge how brand awareness comes into play because that is not measurable, but they can sure track every link that comes from here and can calculate exactly how much revenue those click thru sales generated. Its very easy to do.

Knowing that, I think the decision they made answers your final question.
 
No marketing department makes money per se. Actually it spends money, to promote products or services. If you separate marketing departments from the income produced by the promoted stuff, they are all and always in red. Amazon does not "sell" DPreview as a service or product. DPreview is used as a marketing tool, a marketing outlet. It is not a magazine, but a sell promotor, influencer,...call it what you want.

But truly I have no idea what amazon's sels figures are in the photo, video, lightning and similar departments. Could it be, that is not enough money made, to spend it on such "marketing tool" as DPreview...
So no advertisement agency makes money?
 
No marketing department makes money per se. Actually it spends money, to promote products or services. If you separate marketing departments from the income produced by the promoted stuff, they are all and always in red. Amazon does not "sell" DPreview as a service or product. DPreview is used as a marketing tool, a marketing outlet. It is not a magazine, but a sell promotor, influencer,...call it what you want.
So no advertisement agency makes money?
The ad agency are a contractor. The marketing department are the people who hire them.
 
I first became aware of DPReview in 2005 and probably signed up as a member in 2006 originally under the name MinoltaMan78. In 2005 started out my DSLR experience with the Minolta Maxxum 7D, followed by the Sony A100 and A7. In 2009 I switched to Nikon starting out with the D90. Currently I am using the D7500 with the D7200 as a backup, and occasionally borrowing my wife's Zfc, which we purchased for her in late 2021. I am currently awaiting at least an upgraded Z50 before fully adopting Nikon mirrorless.

Throughout these years, DPReview was a soothing daily fix for me and I greatly appreciated the variety of forums. My interest in photography was never so great that I ever was a leading contributor to any forum, but I will say that I never had difficulty discerning and appreciating all the many sane contributions to the discussions.

Many thanks to all and best wishes!
 
Very sad
 
I have been at DPreview a long time, longer than many people.

I am sad its going away but maybe that is good. Over time DPreview's success killed off other forums who could not compete. Its death will lead to a new set of forums.
 

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