Did Cell Phones Kill DPR ?

Sonyshine said:

Amazon did very well out of Covid lockdowns, people shopped from home. Other retailers got better at online shopping too - they had to to survive.

Since lockdowns have been lifted around the world people have returned to bricks and mortar shopping - at lower levels than before.

Camera sales have been on a massive downturn since their peak around 2012/2013 - when Amazon bought DPR ( oops, bad timing Amazon!) and are declining still in volume, value is steady as cameras have moved upmarket and prices have shot up.

The war in Ukraine, energy prices, Covid disruption in Chinese manufacturing etc have all meant less money in consumers pockets so all retailers are feeling the pinch.

Amazon more than most as its gone from a massive feast ( Covid) to a famine - grim reality in a very short space of time.

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In the UK where I live many restaurants are experiencing less custom (as is usual after Christmas but still) and many clothes stores are closing down, shoe stores too...

What's happening?

sybersitizen said:

Jan Steinman said:

sybersitizen said:

LDJS Photography said:

RAZORBACKSRULE 1 said:

Its inevitable Smart Phones are the future .

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For most people for whom photography is not their main hobby yes

sybersitizen said:

I'm an old school photographer and dont like it but a cell phone can do 90% of what most people do with photos now .

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It cannot.

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I think a smartphone can probably do 100% of what most people do with photos now.

sybersitizen said:

It cannot give me the comfort and tactile feel of my X-T2, does not give me an immersive experience like my 100% o.77 mag EVF does, cannot give me control options for s/speed, aperture, EV comp, metering mode, af speed, af joystick, af/ae lock with my eye to the scene like my X-T2 can, don't even get me started on lenses...

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That's very different. Those of us posting here are not most people and never have been.

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That's why Rolex and Ferrari and Apple and Porche and Yves Saint Laurent and Honma and Christian Louboutin don't exist. Niche markets don't exist. Yea, right.

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I can't tell if you're expressing an objection to my post, so I restored the context that you removed. Nobody above implied that the dedicated camera market doesn't exist.

sybersitizen said:

I've never been interested in what "most people" want.

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That's what I - and two other posters - basically said already about DPR users in general.

My reason for posting here was to point out that most people probably use only a smartphone for all their photos ... so I suggested the 100% figure was more accurate than 90%.

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For everyday not hobbyist or self defined artist photographers using a phone does make more sense.

And then those of us who are hobbyists and / or consider ourselves artists, once out photography matures we realise we don't need new gear very often. I mean my X-T2 will be enough for many years to come. And actual working artist photographers only change their main rig if it's a significant change in some way for a new type of expression for a new project or if their workhorse is giving up the ghost...

Things like the google pixel pro for the non hobbyist or very occasional hobbyist do more than enough and the truth is they don't (from my conversations with them and looking at their photos and I do not mean this in a derrogatory manner) have the dept of understanding we have (rules of composition, types of framing, metering, the benefits of different FL's over just digital zooming, when to pan or use slow speeds or fast speeds, wide or narrow aperture etc) to mean they will ever want a camera and several lenses. They are happy taking what I call 'memory photos' that simply show the thing or people photographed and a cell phone camera is enough for that.

And yes there are a few artits also who do just use a cellphone and some reporters etc too.

And all power to each and every one of them and us.

For us cameras of the 24mp generation (some would say the 16mp generation) are so amazing now (again using my X-T2 as an example, amazing DR, high ISO, 8 fps, amazing IQ even with kit lens) there's no need to buy a new one anymore barring mechanical failure. Even then (at least this is the Fuji case) Fuji charge only a set £180 for ANY repairs to an X-T body (different prices I believe for each type of body) so I would prefer to pay that than buy a new body until the day Fuji repairs come back to me (Mines had 2 repairs thus far one free under warranty, one I paid the £180) and say 'sorry pal this one has given up the ghost, nothing we can do with it.'

To push it further with Fuji and M43 (not so much APSC Nikon or Canon for lens selection) there's no longer really much rationale for the upgrade to FF as our cameras now have pretty much the same DR and have clean ISO 6400 and the companies sell F1, F1.2, F1.4 lenses so we can get that shallow d.o.f without FF.

I always say if I do decide to do paid events, I would go FF just for that extra stop to make life that tiny bit easier. And even then the FF cameras of even the D750 era let alone the amazing m/less ones of today, will be so good again you'd not need to upgrade until mechanical failure.

Life is good but not for repeatedly swapping out gear really anymore as the gear is SO good and the updates diminishing tiny returns now.

RAZORBACKSRULE 1 said:

Its inevitable Smart Phones are the future . I'm an old school photographer and dont like it but a cell phone can do 90% of what most people do with photos now .

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Well, not really, seriously. I tell you why:

1) The haptics

2) missing Ergonomics

3) Missing viewfinder, here - EVF

3) Shoot pictures at armslength, in blazing sunlight, good luck with that!

4) No 24-70, 70-200 fast lens and zoom range

5) mediocre Sensor size, limited DR

6) too much artificial "A.I." post processing going on in realtime with phones usually

7) too much cooked RAWs either way

8) Sensors at best Type 1.0 (1" Sensor) size, no alternative for 35mm (36x24mm or APS-C Sensor format)

9) For snapshots, it's nice to have, always at your side, fingertips. But despite what others may think and shoot, it's nothing for serious photography, into my thoughts...and never will be, compared to a real gear setup.

10) fake shutter "button" with no haptic feedback on your LCD, no way.

11) no real "bokeh" or "aperture" effect, those small Sensors, everything is tack-sharp a few cm away from the lens, it's all computational photography, which i dislike. The grass is greener, the sky is bluer (like through a polarizer filter) and often oversharpened, or other artifacts. I am just not a fan of this type of so called "photography", which isn't for my needs - it just takes pictures onto a digital Sensor...but photography is so much more, than just capturing anything only a Sensor...besides...

For the unsocial media crowd and therefore the usual websites, this is quite good enough - i only like it for snapshots, in terms of phone cameras. YMMV.

Good light.

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"The Best Camera is the One That's with You" ~ Chase Jarvis

You clearly have not used a recent top end mobile phone camera.

Yes, there is a place for traditional camera, but it is rapidly become a very small lonely place. That is why the mobile camera phone HAS killed off DPR.

Camera sales are simply not worth the hassle to Amazon any more. Too small, too specialist, too niche.

--
Stupidity is far more fascinating than intelligence. Intelligence has its limits...

Sonyshine said:

You clearly have not used a recent top end mobile phone camera.

Yes, there is a place for traditional camera, but it is rapidly become a very small lonely place. That is why the mobile camera phone HAS killed off DPR.

Camera sales are simply not worth the hassle to Amazon any more. Too small, too specialist, too niche.

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Whatever you say, no I.Phone Max 14 Pro, Viio X90 Pro, Xiaomi Ultra 12 is like a real camera, into many terms.

Its fine if it works for you especially, but for myself, it's a joke, mentioned the things i said before. It's good for snapshots, nothing else. I dislike silly fake Aperture and DoF effects, etc. If you're just happy with your phone - sell all your gear, pls ! Oh, and after 2 years your phone is btw cr@p from yesterdays, because there are already x new models being flooded onto the market, and what about 4-5+ years? No more updates. Ouch.

I use gear starting from 1968, mind you, up to 2014. And that gives me enough joy. But not a square barren with a computer inside, running iOS or Android, with a camera inside.

Horses for courses. A phone could *never* compete with a real camera. It doesn't have a dedicated viewfinder, no interchangeable lenses, no real haptics, no comparable DR, ISO performance, no real shutter, and too much A.I. fake computational photography algorithms doesn't make anything better for me. I use the camera phone, but only for snapshots, nothing serious. If you use fake DoF, fake aperture, to simulate real 35mm lenses, this is not photography for myself anymore...everyone is being different. And for my personal feelings, it's crazy to buy a phone for >1K, which is simply dipshit after 24 months...technically, and battery nevermore at full capacity.

Horses for courses. Have fun.

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"The Best Camera is the One That's with You" ~ Chase Jarvis

Wait until you use AI.......

A Honda. Accord fulfills 99% of what people needed to drive. And yet there are 3 or more active car magazines that manage to cover all car imaginable,from 500k exotics to electric golf card races. Stories that inspire passion in people who love cars.

No question that what's DPT forgot. Stories that inspire passion in what phographers love. The journey, the hunt. And of course the fun tests and wacky comparisons. I took my iPhone on safari. I used to my mirrorless to blog in Myanmar.

DPR failed because it stayed a nich provider of dry reviews. Having been here longer than all but a few, that's what I just realized.

My 5d mk whatever took my around the world 50 times. Helped explore my city. DPR didn't come along. Didn't show me other's journeys. We travel by ourselves here and that's why it's lost.

tko said:

A Honda. Accord fulfills 99% of what people needed to drive. And yet there are 3 or more active car magazines that manage to cover all car imaginable,from 500k exotics to electric golf card races. Stories that inspire passion in people who love cars.

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The global auto industry is a bit over a hundred times the size of the global camera industry (2.9 trillion dollars vs. 22 billion).
I'll put that up against your theory about "passion".

$$$$ of cameras led to the downfall of DPR.

alfn said:

Did video kill the radio star?

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Perhaps not, but it seems to have killed a lot of others…

Sonyshine said:

Wait until you use AI.......

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Wait....i'd ask my XD7....she said not gonna happen....i heard the same from my RTS II, she doesn't like it? What the heck is A.I. she asked? Then the F100 came along...."never heard of A.I...i take only 35mm film canister" she said...

Bottom Line - If others use whatever they want to, i click happily away my 35mm Film...as long, as it's not too expensive...

--
"The Best Camera is the One That's with You" ~ Chase Jarvis

"The effectiveness of digital ads is wildly oversold." - Harvard Business Review

It could be that DPR's advertising revenue declined. That seems to be a widespread problem.

It seems that when a major camera is announced, camera companies now concentrate on junkets for influencers.

Sonyshine said:

You clearly have not used a recent top end mobile phone camera.

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Oh… do they have viewfinders now?

You are clearly under-40! Or, at least your eyes are. I can't see much of anything on a dinky screen any more.

marc petzold said:

…after 2 years your phone is btw cr@p from yesterdays, because there are already x new models being flooded onto the market, and what about 4-5+ years? No more updates.

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This is a huge problem with phones-as-cameras!

I had a phone I was willing to keep forever. But my carrier turned it off, because they were discontinuing 3G cell service! You won't see that happening with a camera!

Makes a lot of sense, when smart phones cost upwards of a thousand dollars. When you read the reviews of smart phones on PC Mag, etc., a lot of attention to paid to the photography aspects.

Ironically, DPReview had a separate Connect web site for a while.

Smartphones killed the P&S segment

So many contributions and not one about the simple pleasure of taking photos with a "real" dedicated camera , the incredible feeling of holding a well designed tool .

Jesus, doing photography with a smartphone is akin to having sex with a doll , drinking top red wine in a plastic cup , sipping beer directly from the bottle without a proper glass and eating fast food because , well, it's food after all , and cooking your own takes too much time and attention .

108 said:

Smartphones killed the P&S segment

So many contributions and not one about the simple pleasure of taking photos with a "real" dedicated camera , the incredible feeling of holding a well designed tool .

Jesus, doing photography with a smartphone is akin to having sex with a doll , drinking top red wine in a plastic cup , sipping beer directly from the bottle without a proper glass and eating fast food because , well, it's food after all , and cooking your own takes too much time and attention .

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Same as it ever was since the box brownie. The masses use the cell phone for memories photos (which is great and so efficient and capable) and the rest of us who are hobbyists or artists or make a living use other gear just the same as that ever was too

justmeMN said:

"The effectiveness of digital ads is wildly oversold." - Harvard Business Review

It could be that DPR's advertising revenue declined. That seems to be a widespread problem.

It seems that when a major camera is announced, camera companies now concentrate on junkets for influencers.

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Seriously, I have never seen any ads at all at DPreview.com.

They only have those affiliate links pointing to Amazon, but that I wouldn't even consider real ads.

For comparison, go to a popular tech website such as tomshardware, and you will get immediately bombarded with ads of all kinds, even intrusive videos start playing and you don't even know how to stop playing them.

Sonyshine said:

Half the crusty old codgers on here would have been up in arms at cameraphone reviews!

The other half would have laid into them for being luddite dinosaurs.

DPR world have been between a rock and a hard place.

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That's what killed DPR. Stupidity and intolerance. I want my cell and camera tested side by side. What's wrong with that? Most people have no talent and depend on the prestige of their equipment to give them security.

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no, I won't return to read your witty reply!
professional cynic and contrarian: don't take it personally
http://500px.com/omearak

All Bushs Fault said:

RAZORBACKSRULE 1 said:

Its inevitable Smart Phones are the future . I'm an old school photographer and dont like it but a cell phone can do 90% of what most people do with photos now .

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Maybe. DPR reviews cellphones, but the newest iPhones, the most popular in the world, aren't sold on Amazon. Only older models are sold there.

Plus, I do not think Amazon can compete with B&H for high-end cameras and lenses.

I don't think this site was funneling enough business Amazon's way to make it feasible to pay all of these salaries. It's the only thing that makes sense.

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I think your guess is reasonable - my worry is that Amazon was seeing declining camera and lens sales and didn't see this as a future direction for them.

The camera makers have switched gears and now mostly cater to professionals and high end enthusiasts/hobbyists. Might not have been the right match for Amazon.