The End of DPRev

blse59 said:

God no. Avoid reddit at all costs. The people in each subreddit are brainwashed into preaching and believing whatever the prevailing sentiment/attitude/vibe in each subreddit is. The way the system is set up encourages this. It's like the borg in Star Trek. The people there lack independent critical thinking skills. They need to know what the herd thinks so they can think that too.

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See, that's the thing. I would have said the same about this place. You've really never been able to say anything negative about a Sony product on this forum without people getting nasty or patronizing in response. I'm not claiming people on Reddit are better in that respect, but I don't think they're worse. Brand f****y-ism is strong in both places.

Qqphot said:

blse59 said:

God no. Avoid reddit at all costs. The people in each subreddit are brainwashed into preaching and believing whatever the prevailing sentiment/attitude/vibe in each subreddit is. The way the system is set up encourages this. It's like the borg in Star Trek. The people there lack independent critical thinking skills. They need to know what the herd thinks so they can think that too.

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See, that's the thing. I would have said the same about this place. You've really never been able to say anything negative about a Sony product on this forum without people getting nasty or patronizing in response. I'm not claiming people on Reddit are better in that respect, but I don't think they're worse. Brand f****y-ism is strong in both places.

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Yeah, in my experience people are more or less the same everywhere online (other than places like 4chan and darknet of course). Forums like DPR move more slowly and keep posts visible longer than Reddit, but that's pretty much it. I only use Reddit on a PC, and I don't find downvoted comments particularly "hidden" - one click, and I can read them just the same as all other comments.

Sometimes there's a sense of community of course, when you have a small enough group of regulars. DPR has probably been better for that than Reddit, though far from all DPR users feel a sense of community. Personally, I prefer offline communities, and come online for more practical purposes.

I do wish FM presented the Threads and Subthreads more like the style here in DP - it makes it easier to respond to directed questions and avoid subthreads that go off track.

I also like the consistent unbiased reviews of multiple different manufactures gear with the ability to compare optics, noise, etc... Theortically FM could do that - but I am not sure Fred really has the resources.

Don't forget - https://www.dyxum.com

Around since the A Mount (including some Minolta)! Good site with forums.

Andreas_J said:

May I suggest the Sony Alpha Forum as alternative?

https://www.sonyalphaforum.com/

23,000 members, up and running well since 2014…

100% dedicated to Sony Alpha E-Mount…

For all of you who like to discuss in German:

https://www.sonyalphaforum.de

Andreas

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BlackRockArt said:

Michael W00d said:

Wow! Just caught the message. That will mean major change in many people's photographic lives because it has been a valuable source of knowledge and inspiration for so many years.

Anyone got ideas of what might provide something similar?

Michael

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Hi Michael

I have been visiting the website FocalWorld, it's run by old timers mostly. I find the site welcoming, cordial with real people.

https://www.focalworld.com/

Kind regards

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The Sony forum there is moribund - most of the threads from 2017, a few from 2019, with a few updates in 2021.

Should we all jump to https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forums.html ? I used to go there in the A-mount days.

It looks like they have forums for E-mount, FE, A-mount, lenses... etc.

I am going to miss all the knowledge that this site provided, with the reviews and test shots...et.

That photography, in general, is slowly dying.

Barugon said:

That photography, in general, is slowly dying.

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Taking photographs will never, of course, die, as images are the most user friendly way of communicating (“easier “ and faster than text or video) so, if anything, will become more popular, and although phone photography is becoming more dominant, I believe that there will always be people who progress and take photography as their hobby so move to printing (pretty much necessitating a larger sensor) or share photographs where people can view the image in a larger format (eg zooming), or the person takes photographs in settings where phone sensors don’t appear “sufficient” (ie low light - yes, some phones produce images that look surprisingly good in low light, however zoom in a bit or want to use a different focal length? Not so good).

as people want to improve, they’ll see that larger sensor technology is the way to go forward, until a breakthrough in small sensor tech occurs (this may take a long time). When there is such a breakthrough, it may also be a breakthrough in larger sensor tech, so that larger sensor technology may always be superior, and professionalss and hobbyists will appreciate this, so our hobby will continue.

want to stand out taking photographs? Imagination helps, and a larger sensor will likely give you a boost, at the very least giving you the ability to use that creativity more and push out versus using a phone.

tldr; larger sensor tech - our hobby - will not “die” for quite a long time imho

Michael W00d said:

Wow! Just caught the message. That will mean major change in many people's photographic lives because it has been a valuable source of knowledge and inspiration for so many years.

Anyone got ideas of what might provide something similar?

Michael

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Maybe some one can pick them up, Maybe Pentax Forums, as the have a Nikon forum. One can only hope, wonder why they don't sell it?

So sad, I will really miss this site and all the good folks I have communicated with over the years

Tip of the cap with thanks and gratitude to all the people in the Sony forums who throughout the years have provided content in the forum and have helped so many people including myself. Seems a shame that the contents of the forums can't be purchased from Amazon (for like a dollar) and hosted someplace else. :-|

I read in between the lines that there is something in the works with Chris and Jordan....maybe just You Tube videos and not in depth written camera/lens reviews. But what's to stop the DPReview staff from a similar startup (other than cash)?

I suspect the existing website was not bringing in enough ad revenue to pay salaries, so a lower cost alternative....like "Digital Photography Review ."

The cell phone camera is slowly killing the amateur photography market.

Dennis from Florida said:

I read in between the lines that there is something in the works with Chris and Jordan....maybe just You Tube videos and not in depth written camera/lens reviews. But what's to stop the DPReview staff from a similar startup (other than cash)?

I suspect the existing website was not bringing in enough ad revenue to pay salaries, so a lower cost alternative....like "Digital Photography Review ."

The cell phone camera is slowly killing the amateur photography market.

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Well Chris and Jordan already have a new channel up with Peta Pixel

Barugon said:

That photography, in general, is slowly dying.

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Not a chance. Cameras are one of the most important features of cellphones to consumers. As long as there is light, there will be photography. There's an estimated 196 million photographs being taken every hour at the moment. Do you think that number his higher or lower than 5, 10, 20, 30 years ago? Do you think that number is trending up or down for the foreseeable future?

Now obviously most people aren't into the kind of photography that requires the kind of dedicated cameras we have, but there has never been a time where this is so much quality cameras and lenses available. We're in an absolute golden age of interchangeable lens cameras at the moment. You basically can't go wrong with any system. So while it might be a niche, it's a big and lucrative niche, and it's been a niche for pretty much all of photography's existence - with the exception of a number of years where compact digital cameras were ubiquitous (after the demise of compact film cameras, but before the advent of smart phones). But even during that time SLRs, DSLRs and SLTs were niche.

Phone camera tech has obviously come a long way, and clearly has taken over the snapshot market - and rightly so. And there's clearly innovations to come. But physics dictates the limits of what a camera in such a small form factor can do, and for everything else, there'll always be dedicated cameras.

And even AI and computational photography won't replace photography. Sure, phones (and even dedicated cameras) will use computational photography to enhance their images and features. And in things like advertising, no one really cares if the image is "real" or not, because even the "real" images aren't.

But in general, what people really want to see is photos taken by people. There's a bit of a novelty factor at the moment where you could post up, say, a picture of an eagle in flight that was created with Midjourney or whatever, but that will wear off to a great extent. Most people interested in seeing pictures of eagles want to know that it was a real eagle.

I mean, for years now, computers have been able to beat humans at chess. But that hasn't killed chess, because most people who are into it are into it because it's human against human - it's about skill and ability, not computational power. The novelty of a grand master playing a computer has worn off, and certainly no-one wants to see two computers playing each-other (outside of the pure novelty of it).

Yeah, I've really only started using Reddit recently (and mainly for non-photography subs), but its main downside is that threads don't get kept up for days, weeks and months like here or on traditional fora. Something is posted, replies are posted, there's a bit of back and forth amongst a limited number of people for a couple of hours, and then it's move on to the next thing. Here, you could still be replying and discussing something on a thread that was opened a year ago, and it would be relevant and useful.

Gregor Samsa said:

Barugon said:

That photography, in general, is slowly dying.

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Not a chance. Cameras are one of the most important features of cellphones to consumers. As long as there is light, there will be photography. There's an estimated 196 million photographs being taken every hour at the moment. Do you think that number his higher or lower than 5, 10, 20, 30 years ago? Do you think that number is trending up or down for the foreseeable future?

Now obviously most people aren't into the kind of photography that requires the kind of dedicated cameras we have, but there has never been a time where this is so much quality cameras and lenses available. We're in an absolute golden age of interchangeable lens cameras at the moment. You basically can't go wrong with any system. So while it might be a niche, it's a big and lucrative niche, and it's been a niche for pretty much all of photography's existence - with the exception of a number of years where compact digital cameras were ubiquitous (after the demise of compact film cameras, but before the advent of smart phones). But even during that time SLRs, DSLRs and SLTs were niche.

Phone camera tech has obviously come a long way, and clearly has taken over the snapshot market - and rightly so. And there's clearly innovations to come. But physics dictates the limits of what a camera in such a small form factor can do, and for everything else, there'll always be dedicated cameras.

And even AI and computational photography won't replace photography. Sure, phones (and even dedicated cameras) will use computational photography to enhance their images and features. And in things like advertising, no one really cares if the image is "real" or not.

But in general, what people really want to see is photos taken by people. There's a bit of a novelty factor at the moment where you could post up, say, a picture of an eagle in flight that was created with Midjourney or whatever, but that will wear off to a great extent. Most people interested in seeing pictures of eagles want to know that it was a real eagle.

I mean, for years now, computers have been able to beat humans at chess. But that hasn't killed chess, because most people who are into it are into it because it's human against human - it's about skill and ability, not computational power. The novelty of a grand master playing a computer has worn off, and certainly no-one wants to see two computers playing each-other (outside of the pure novelty of it).

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While I absolutely agree with you, I think that soon, it will be impossible to tell whether an image is real or AI-generated. We are half an inch from that already with Midjourney v5 released last week. Unscrupulous individuals will pretend to have taken photos they used AI to generate, probably even buying all the gear necessary and making videos about it while lacking the actual skills required for those captures.

And the tragedy is, soon, no one will know. In chess, there are all kinds of checks and controls in place to detect cheating - but even then, we know at least some is happening anyway. Hans Niemann likely made it to the very top despite cheating, and managed to not get caught.

In photography, getting caught will be impossible. It doesn't deter me personally, and I'll mostly feel pity for the individuals doing it, but make no mistake, the interwebs are about to be flooded with 100% realistic fake AI photos. Those looking for clicks (instaspammers and their ilk) will be spewing it left, right, and centre.

I'm not sure what it will do to the photography scene by and large, but I do know that Instagram and the like will soon have very, very few real photos left. The masses prefer certain kinds of images on their tiny phone screens, and AI will soon be able to mass-produce those with a couple of clicks to a reliable level of mastery only the very best photographers might be able to match (with way more effort).

I think there will be some kind of resurgence of offline photography, but I expect online photography to be completely dominated by AI photos very soon - whether the photographers admit to it or not.

There have always been alternatives but the reason dpr was my favourite was the combination of reviews, news and that way the forums were laid out. It's why in my opinion it was more popular that other sites that started out around the same time.

Pure forum based alternatives don't cut it as they lack the in depth reviews that often sparked forum discussions.

The worst aspect of the closure is the site will disappear completely. It's cultural vandalism to delete it. A mass of advice and knowledge disappears. Ironic when the sites owner started out selling books.

Reddit is just a mass of forums. Dpr is a web site that has forums related to the content of the web site. A massive difference in my opinion.

Dpr has news, reviews, articles on various photography related topics and forums as well.

Pure forum baser alternatives such as reddit don't cur it in my opinion.

Sundre said:

Gregor Samsa said:

Barugon said:

That photography, in general, is slowly dying.

Click to expand...

Not a chance. Cameras are one of the most important features of cellphones to consumers. As long as there is light, there will be photography. There's an estimated 196 million photographs being taken every hour at the moment. Do you think that number his higher or lower than 5, 10, 20, 30 years ago? Do you think that number is trending up or down for the foreseeable future?

Now obviously most people aren't into the kind of photography that requires the kind of dedicated cameras we have, but there has never been a time where this is so much quality cameras and lenses available. We're in an absolute golden age of interchangeable lens cameras at the moment. You basically can't go wrong with any system. So while it might be a niche, it's a big and lucrative niche, and it's been a niche for pretty much all of photography's existence - with the exception of a number of years where compact digital cameras were ubiquitous (after the demise of compact film cameras, but before the advent of smart phones). But even during that time SLRs, DSLRs and SLTs were niche.

Phone camera tech has obviously come a long way, and clearly has taken over the snapshot market - and rightly so. And there's clearly innovations to come. But physics dictates the limits of what a camera in such a small form factor can do, and for everything else, there'll always be dedicated cameras.

And even AI and computational photography won't replace photography. Sure, phones (and even dedicated cameras) will use computational photography to enhance their images and features. And in things like advertising, no one really cares if the image is "real" or not.

But in general, what people really want to see is photos taken by people. There's a bit of a novelty factor at the moment where you could post up, say, a picture of an eagle in flight that was created with Midjourney or whatever, but that will wear off to a great extent. Most people interested in seeing pictures of eagles want to know that it was a real eagle.

I mean, for years now, computers have been able to beat humans at chess. But that hasn't killed chess, because most people who are into it are into it because it's human against human - it's about skill and ability, not computational power. The novelty of a grand master playing a computer has worn off, and certainly no-one wants to see two computers playing each-other (outside of the pure novelty of it).

Click to expand...

While I absolutely agree with you, I think that soon, it will be impossible to tell whether an image is real or AI-generated. We are half an inch from that already with Midjourney v5 released last week. Unscrupulous individuals will pretend to have taken photos they used AI to generate, probably even buying all the gear necessary and making videos about it while lacking the actual skills required for those captures.

And the tragedy is, soon, no one will know. In chess, there are all kinds of checks and controls in place to detect cheating - but even then, we know at least some is happening anyway. Hans Niemann likely made it to the very top despite cheating, and managed to not get caught.

In photography, getting caught will be impossible. It doesn't deter me personally, and I'll mostly feel pity for the individuals doing it, but make no mistake, the interwebs are about to be flooded with 100% realistic fake AI photos. Those looking for clicks (instaspammers and their ilk) will be spewing it left, right, and centre.

I'm not sure what it will do to the photography scene by and large, but I do know that Instagram and the like will soon have very, very few real photos left. The masses prefer certain kinds of images on their tiny phone screens, and AI will soon be able to mass-produce those with a couple of clicks to a reliable level of mastery only the very best photographers might be able to match (with way more effort).

I think there will be some kind of resurgence of offline photography, but I expect online photography to be completely dominated by AI photos very soon - whether the photographers admit to it or not.

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1. There's always the type of photography where the audience is the photographer him/herself.

2. Photography isn't about showing to other people only. Photography is also to show the future what it was like once.

KE_DP said:

Don't forget - https://www.dyxum.com

Around since the A Mount (including some Minolta)! Good site with forums.

Andreas_J said:

May I suggest the Sony Alpha Forum as alternative?

https://www.sonyalphaforum.com/

23,000 members, up and running well since 2014…

100% dedicated to Sony Alpha E-Mount…

For all of you who like to discuss in German:

https://www.sonyalphaforum.de

Andreas

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Just went to dyxum, went to the Camera page, and the latest camera it lists is the A9 II, released in 2019. Could have sworn Sony has released a camera since then...

Looks like the site is far from up-to-date.