Struggling between RF USM and STM lineup as an amateur

sercheese · Mar 7, 2023

Hello,

As many of you, I dream about Canon R5(Mk II)/R3 with some USM L primes like RF 50mm F1.2, etc. to have the best quality of photos.
The reality though is, that I am an amateur. All photos taken with this combo would be family related. I am a pharmacist (not a dentist

), so I have no plans to sell my photos in the future.
I have watched some comparison videos, i.ex. 50mm F1.2 vs 50mm F1.8 and tried to cover the captions. I've found it very hard to see the real difference. I've learned that many profis show some difference (i.ex. a sharper eye) but only while zooming in.
I have printed some photos up to the size 15×21 cm. I have no need to print them bigger than A4.
So as hard as it is, I think a better option would be Canon R6 Mk II with some STM non-L primes.
I've used to shoot with Canon 50d and Nikon d500. I had few years of pause, while shooting only with my smartphone. The reason why I want to buy a new camera is because my first newborn is coming to the world in Mai. I want to take some beautiful photos of my family now and some vacation photos in the future.
I've also thought about a macro lens like RF 100mm F2.8L Macro to take some photos of those tiny hands, lips, etc. But now I think this is also a too expensive lens for my needs and for this short period of time. I have no interest in taking photos of flowers, insects, etc. in the future.
On one side, it is financially possible for me to go all out and buy the best gear. I've used to do it this way with other things, like a road bike, etc. But I'm starting to realise that there is a lot of marketing going on and a territory of marginal gains. The additional advantage of the STM line would be its compact size and weight. Is it true that the new RF lineup is much better than the old EF lineup, even in STM range?
I guess, I'm expecting your acknowledgement. I am just afraid that without this sweet RF 50mm F1.2 I will lose something, some important detail...
If I would go the STM way, there are many primes at the moment:
RF 16mm F2.8
RF 24mm F1.8 Macro
RF 35mm F1.8 Macro
RF 50mm F1.8
RF 85mm F2.0 Macro
I even thought about the new R8, which would be even lighter, but it lacks IBIS, so I think that's not a good idea, especially indoors.
The 50mm focal length is my go to lens. Which one should I accompany it with so that it makes sense?
Or should I buy the RF 50mm F1.2 (because USM will focus quicker as my child becomes quicker as well?) and wait for a RF 35mm F1.2 to get the best of the best...?

Thank you for your thoughts

thunder storm · Mar 15, 2023

Alastair Norcross said:
thunder storm said:

ZX11 said:

sercheese said:

koenkooi said:

The RF50 f/1.2 I rented handled the shallow DoF things, but I didn’t encounter many situations where f/1.2 was useful, a person holding a baby rarely fits into the DoF. Unless you go for full body portraits, which enters the ‘I need a larger house’ situation again

Click to expand...

If that's true, it would bring us back to the 2nd option with RF 24-70mm F2.8 as universal lens, with no practical need for F1.2, unless I take few stops back, i.ex. to F2, still with better IQ. Not so easy to decide...

I don't take RF 28-70mm F2.0 as an option, because it's a beast (as 85mm F1.2 is). Or... should I?

Click to expand...

The thing about the 50 f1.2 is it is so versatile.

It can do DOF shots at f1.2, and gather dim light like f1.2 does, while still able to adjust to f2, f2.8, f4, etc to get a couple people's eyes sharp at the same time. Same can not be said about the non "L" options. You crank a RF 50 f1.8 open to f1.2 with a pair of pliers, it falls apart. It's not as photo versatile.

Click to expand...

50mm f/1.2 is great.

Alastair Norcross said:

You also get durablility, lens coatings, a hood, UD elements, fast AF (ignore claims that it is slow),

Click to expand...

It's all relative, but the 40mm Art is faster, and the 50mm GM is way faster yet.

Alastair Norcross said:

weather sealing, and edge to edge sharpness with the RF 50 f1.2.

Cries about it being expensive can be mitigated if you have the budget. Cries about it being heavy can be mitigated if you are a healthy adult. If two pounds bothers some, I offer a cell phone for photos as it is hard to beat for being light weight, and far lighter than a R5 with Sigma 40mm (truly a boat anchor ).

Click to expand...

The 40mm Art is for indoors at home. For it's wider slightly wider focal length it's a nice addition to a fast focusing 50mm. For portability Canon is simply the wrong brand, you can't blame Sigma for that, as the Sony 50mm f/1.2 GM is the goddess of all 50mm lenses for portability, AF speed & accuracy, and the complete silence of her AF system. The heavy RF 50mm f/1.2 boat anchor can't touch it.

For portability >> go Sony. The same is true for a compact 85mm f/1.4 as well.

Canon is the brand for slow focusing boat anchors.

Click to expand...

As you say, it's all relative. I have never once missed a shot because of a slow focusing lens, even using lenses that others (such as you) complain about as being slow. Relative speed doesn't matter at all, so long as what you have is fast enough for what you're doing with it. My Ford Edge is positively snail-like compared with a F1 speed demon, but given that I have never once wanted or needed to drive faster than my car will go, all the extra speed in other cars is completely irrelevant to me. From what I've seen of the focusing in the Canon RF 50 F1.2, it is perfectly fast enough for what the OP wants. The fact that other lenses, such as your beloved Sigma 40, focus faster simply doesn't matter here.

I don't agree here.

Alastair Norcross said:
I know there might be a psychological factor here.

Of course.

Alastair Norcross said:
We all feel the need to own stuff that is 'better' than other stuff, even if the dimension of betterness is irrelevant to what we will actually do with it.

The context here: within 4 years that kid will start to move around pretty fast, and that will also happen for pictures with the kid pretty large in the frame, and in my experience, for those kind of pictures you will need all the AF speed you can get. The RF 50mm f/1.2 is hired and tested by me personally on my R5, I do shoot fast moving kids with it, so I know what I'm talking about.

I'm not stating that psychological factor isn't playing a role here. It is.

But I've also recommended the 85mm f/2.0 IS stm here, as it can be useful for close focusing the first year. I don't like the focus speed of that lens (I know you do), but that lens is inexpensive enough to justify it's purchase. The RF 50mm f/1.2 OTOH is probably a lens being purchased to use a longer period given the price tag, so I'm more critical on that lens.

Alastair Norcross said:
It's something I'm constantly trying to combat in myself (not always successfully), and really don't want to encourage in others.

You give your opinion, I'm giving mine, and I have no problem with disagreeing. The 50mm GM has it all, whether you prefer a very light weight or a the fastest AF, so if the 40mm art is ruled out because of being - in the words of ZX11 - a "boat anchor" the perfect alternative exists.

R2D2 · Mar 15, 2023

sercheese said:
Due to your suggestions, I've ended up ordering R6 Mk II & RF24-70mm F2.8 for the start! I can always build up with additional lenses in the future.

And maaany accessories :-D Thank you for your patience and help!

Big congrats! That’s a hugely capable combo you have there. Be aware that there’s a very substantial learning curve too! Lots to go through in the setup alone.

I’d also HIGHLY recommend DxO’s Photolab 6 for processing your RAWs. It’ll extend your low light (meaning indoor) capabilities even further.

Large windows do work great for some stuff. Get a LARGE folding reflector (the big rectangular ones work well), and a stand with an arm. This One will do the trick indoors (it’s small and light), but if you want something more substantial I also have This One . Watch for the kiddies tripping on the legs!

Have fun!

R2

R2D2 · Mar 15, 2023

ZX11 said:
R2D2 said:

ZX11 said:

sercheese said:

And Peak Design Everyday Messenger 13 l, i hope it will have enough room for my set?

Tomorrow is the day!

Click to expand...

Nice bag. It looks good in the tweed fabric. RF 50 f1.2 would be a fine walk around lens. Your shots will have a different/special look than the run of the mill cell phone or 50mm f1.8.

Think Tank bag. Peak Design and Think Tank is crazy flexible configuration, and pockets everywhere. One of these two lenses is my typical walk around lens.

Click to expand...

I have this bag too (Think Tank Retro 20 v2). Holds my R6ii + RF 28-70 f/2 + RF 70-200 f/2.8 usually. Messenger type bags are great as a walk around “working” bag, but the design is IMHO very (too) limited for carrying a bunch of gear. (OP), I’d rethink this if it’s going to be an “only” or main bag.

R2

Click to expand...

I think I didn't write that very clearly. I meant that the Peak Design Everyday Messenger bag was a nice bag that looks good in tweed. Either bag would work for me.

My big bag is a LowePro ProTactic 450 AW II with extra small bags molle'd to the sides. The Think Tank is for just a couple of lenses. I use a Crown Royal bag for the camera with the RF 35 or EF 85 f1.8.

Apologize, actually I wasn’t clear. My comments were in fact meant for the OP. ;-)

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

Galleries by Jekyll & Hyde

www.pbase.com

sercheese · Mar 15, 2023

R2D2 said:
sercheese said:

Due to your suggestions, I've ended up ordering R6 Mk II & RF24-70mm F2.8 for the start! I can always build up with additional lenses in the future.

And maaany accessories :-D Thank you for your patience and help!

Click to expand...

Big congrats! That’s a hugely capable combo you have there. Be aware that there’s a very substantial learning curve too! Lots to go through in the setup alone.

I've decided for this combo, as I have found a very welcoming, experienced community here. So I have a feeling, that I can trust your wisdom and I follow your advice. Thank you once more!

R2D2 said:
I’d also HIGHLY recommend DxO’s Photolab 6 for processing your RAWs. It’ll extend your low light (meaning indoor) capabilities even further.

I used to use Lightroom many years ago, but I am happy to try Photolab. Does it also have some kind of Photo Management as Lightroom?

R2D2 said:
Large windows do work great for some stuff. Get a LARGE folding reflector (the big rectangular ones work well), and a stand with an arm. This One will do the trick indoors (it’s small and light), but if you want something more substantial I also have This One . Watch for the kiddies tripping on the legs!

As I understand I should buy bought? I see some difficulties in the availability, especially in Europe. Maybe something this kind but from well-known company?

R2D2 said:
Have fun!

R2

sure I will, but as you already mentioned, it will be a steep learning curve. But it's great that I have min. 2 months time to get accustomed

Liteo · Mar 15, 2023

sercheese said:
I used to use Lightroom many years ago, but I am happy to try Photolab. Does it also have some kind of Photo Management as Lightroom?

Nope, no Photo Management built in. The ones who need photo management usually have Lightroom + DXO Pureraw (https://www.dxo.com/fr/dxo-pureraw/).

Best of luck with your new tools

sercheese · Mar 15, 2023

Today DxO PureRaw 3 was announced! If I understand it correctly, I can buy it, together with Lightroom classic to have both data management features of Lightroom with denoising & lens correction features of DxO PureRaw.

I don't really understand why there is also DxO Photolab, as it doesn't have the Data Management component. It has more editing features, but so do Lightroom, right?

How do you manage your files, while using only DxO Photolab?

I've used to use Lightroom back in the days as there was only the vanilla version. I am sure I want the classic version nowadays, as I will process all photos solely on my laptop.

I went today for a walk with my wife and I tested the new camera

And I asked her, if she could also take few pictures of me and she was happy that they came sharp. So I have laid some foundations

thunder storm · Mar 15, 2023

sercheese said:
Due to your suggestions, I've ended up ordering R6 Mk II & RF24-70mm F2.8 for the start!

Great!

sercheese said:
I can always build up with additional lenses in the future.

That RF24-70mm F2.8 IS USM is a great lens. It has nice bokeh as well. It could be simply all you need really.

sercheese said:
And maaany accessories :-D Thank you for your patience and help!

thunder storm · Mar 15, 2023

sercheese said:
I went today for a walk with my wife and I tested the new camera And I asked her, if she could also take few pictures of me and she was happy that they came sharp.

When my 24-70mm f/2.8 arrived my wife said: "That's a practical lens, it zooms, finally. You don't have to pay that one from your hobby budget, you can pay that one from the family budget."

sercheese said:
So I have laid some foundations

If you want your camera back just mount a prime. ;-)

sercheese · Mar 15, 2023

My wife was very happy with zooming, etc. I found myself sticking to 50mm almost whole time, as if I wanted to prove myself that RF 50mm F1.2 would also be a good choice. On one hand, I know that I can still buy this superior prime lens, now or in the future. Choosing RF 24-70mm F2.8 over RF 24-105 F4.0 had me thinking, that then there will be less stops difference to the prime (F2.8 => F1.2, instead of F4.0 => F1.2). It this a false attitude? And having bought RF 24-70mm F2.8 didn't render RF 50mm F1.2 less worthy to add in the future? It's more of attitude problem, so I would be happy to read your insight.

sea_dragon · Mar 15, 2023

sercheese said:
My wife was very happy with zooming, etc. I found myself sticking to 50mm almost whole time, as if I wanted to prove myself that RF 50mm F1.2 would also be a good choice. On one hand, I know that I can still buy this superior prime lens, now or in the future. Choosing RF 24-70mm F2.8 over RF 24-105 F4.0 had me thinking, that then there will be less stops difference to the prime (F2.8 => F1.2, instead of F4.0 => F1.2). It this a false attitude? And having bought RF 24-70mm F2.8 didn't render RF 50mm F1.2 less worthy to add in the future? It's more of attitude problem, so I would be happy to read your insight.

Congrats on your purchase! I too just bought the R6 Mark II and the 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8. It’s an amazing kit!

I also just received the 35mm 1.8 prime lens and I cannot believe the IQ and the lightweight combo it makes. Having the camera with that lens around my neck and I can barely feel it.

What awesome times we live in!

sercheese · Mar 15, 2023

sea_dragon said:
sercheese said:

My wife was very happy with zooming, etc. I found myself sticking to 50mm almost whole time, as if I wanted to prove myself that RF 50mm F1.2 would also be a good choice. On one hand, I know that I can still buy this superior prime lens, now or in the future. Choosing RF 24-70mm F2.8 over RF 24-105 F4.0 had me thinking, that then there will be less stops difference to the prime (F2.8 => F1.2, instead of F4.0 => F1.2). It this a false attitude? And having bought RF 24-70mm F2.8 didn't render RF 50mm F1.2 less worthy to add in the future? It's more of attitude problem, so I would be happy to read your insight.

Click to expand...

Congrats on your purchase! I too just bought the R6 Mark II and the 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8. It’s an amazing kit!

I also just received the 35mm 1.8 prime lens and I cannot believe the IQ and the lightweight combo it makes. Having the camera with that lens around my neck and I can barely feel it.

What awesome times we live in!

Hello, I am happy that we bought it simultaneously, congratulations!

I have yet another question. I have two unlocked memory cards set to write at the same time. I also have Raw + JPEG. I have erased few photos on the camera, but they still appear on the memory cards while I transfer them to my laptop. How is it possible and how can I really erase them on my camera, so that I don't have to do it on my laptop? Is this a kind of quirk?

And one more thing. I tried to make a selfie of us two. This lens is too big for this. Which prime would you recommend for those handheld selfies?

So that we won't look too distorted? 35mm? 24mm? Any thoughts?

thunder storm · Mar 15, 2023

sercheese said:
My wife was very happy with zooming, etc. I found myself sticking to 50mm almost whole time, as if I wanted to prove myself that RF 50mm F1.2 would also be a good choice. On one hand, I know that I can still buy this superior prime lens, now or in the future. Choosing RF 24-70mm F2.8 over RF 24-105 F4.0 had me thinking, that then there will be less stops difference to the prime (F2.8 => F1.2, instead of F4.0 => F1.2). It this a false attitude? And having bought RF 24-70mm F2.8 didn't render RF 50mm F1.2 less worthy to add in the future? It's more of attitude problem, so I would be happy to read your insight.

The 50mm will give f/1.2 at 50mm only. Not at 24-49, and not at 51-70/105. So the f/2.8 zoom will still give you one stop more light at other focal lengths, and especially the wider ones are important. At the same time the weight of the f/2.8 zoom is still manageable when going for a walk with the wife, unlike the 28-70 f/2.0 USM. That's the value of an f/2.8 standard zoom. Perfect compromise. Keeps things simple.

Simplicity helps to capture the right moment. Woman will always pick the picture with the perfect smile, no matter the DOF, bokeh, even focus, etc. The immediacy of a zoom often wins from having to zoom with your feet to capture the perfect expression. You'll also need less time to spend on using the camera to get some of these moments.

Look, I love bright primes, but zooms are more practical, and having a zoom capturing twice the light is even more practical.

sercheese · Mar 16, 2023

Some great photos aren't made with a great camera, but are still a great souvenir

My wife took it. She also tried my R6 few times and I am surprised how well she did it! And I see her smiling while taking pictures, maybe she's in

What's also cool with this camera and touch screen is, that now I can ask a tourist to take a picture of us two with my camera. I said to him, he only has to point a finger at us and press the shutter. It worked great!

What is also interesting, my wife said that she likes a little blurred photos, but just a bit. So that you have a light 3d effect, but you still see everything in the background. So maybe she wouldn't really like the blurred background from RF 50mm F1.2

I'm facing a new problem. Firstly I have to choose an editing program, but I need also some kind of DAM. That is why I'm thinking about Lightroom % DxO PureRaw or maybe Acdsee? I can't imagine using only Photolab or maybe a have a weak imagination?

It should be possible to register keywords, like name of a person and AI should learn the faces to attach the same keyword in the future.

I wanted to send some photos to my family, but now I send them threw Email. I know that in the long run this isn't an optimal way. I was thinking about NAS Synology, so that I can send a link to photos, instead of uploading them each time. Or maybe I should have a 500px or squareshare Internet Site where I could upload those pictures? But then, it would be important for me that some photos should stay private, only for the family. What are your suggestions?

thunder storm · Mar 16, 2023

https://wetransfer.com

Up to 2Gb

thunder storm · Mar 16, 2023

sercheese said:
What is also interesting, my wife said that she likes a little blurred photos, but just a bit. So that you have a light 3d effect, but you still see everything in the background. So maybe she wouldn't really like the blurred background from RF 50mm F1.2

There are more factors in play than just the aperture. There's also the 1. distance between the camera and the subject, 2. the distance between the subject and the background, and 3. a longer focal length magnifies the blur in the background so it seams more blurry.

With 70mm & f/2.8 you can do a lot to get blur by managing 1 and 2.

For environmental full body shots and a lot of trees and branches in the background f/1.2 can be is nice, but those beautiful lakes and mountains being so far away don't need to be blurred so much, as the distance between this and the subject is huge and this as a background isn't busy or distracting at all.

This is when I use f/1.2

As you see, to Alastairs point, at the age of 10 years or so - after a some years (3-8) with huge AF requirements - the AF requirements can get less demanding, so the Canon RF 50mm f/1.2 and even the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm would have done the job here.

--

ThrillaMozilla · Mar 16, 2023

sercheese said:
I wanted to send some photos to my family, but now I send them threw Email. I know that in the long run this isn't an optimal way. I was thinking about NAS Synology, so that I can send a link to photos, instead of uploading them each time. Or maybe I should have a 500px or squareshare Internet Site where I could upload those pictures? But then, it would be important for me that some photos should stay private, only for the family. What are your suggestions?

Google Photos is easy, and works perfectly from a link. You create an album (if you want), then give it a name and add photos to it. (Some of the add photos stuff is in kind of fine print, but it's still easy to use.)

Then you just press the "sharing" button, and create a link, copy it, and send it to people by e-mail. There are other ways to share it too. If you want, you can even let other people add photos to an album.

I'm sure you'll enjoy your new camera too. Sounds nice.

sercheese · Mar 16, 2023

Is it possible to assign a custom button for switching between metering modes?

And is it possible to assign the ring on the lens to change ISO? Then I could change the normal dial (which is together with on off switch) to make it change the metering mode.

I have made some adjustments to other settings (I.ex. AF mode) and buttons but I don't see any option for what I described above.

thunder storm · Mar 16, 2023

sercheese said:
Is it possible to assign a custom button for switching between metering modes?

And is it possible to assign the ring on the lens to change ISO?

You can change functions for the ring on the lens by changing settings on the camera. I don't know if ISO is one of the available functions though.

sercheese said:
Then I could change the normal dial (which is together with on off switch) to make it change the metering mode.

On the R5 that "normal dial" isn't combined with the on/of switch. You can push the middle of that "normal dial" to toggle functions for the dial itself, and that can be used for changing metering modes without taking your eye from the viewfinder.

I have no idea what the R6II does or doesn't.

sercheese said:
I have made some adjustments to other settings (I.ex. AF mode) and buttons but I don't see any option for what I described above.

I don't change ISO so often. I'm also using the drop in filter adapter, so for my EF lenses the ring of the control ring adapter can't be used always. Therefor I'm using Fn + front dial to change ISO. Maybe that's a work around for you as well? That way you can use the ring on the lens for something else if ISO isn't an option.

You might want to search on YT for a tutorial with a good table of content.

Liteo · Mar 17, 2023

sercheese said:
Today DxO PureRaw 3 was announced! If I understand it correctly, I can buy it, together with Lightroom classic to have both data management features of Lightroom with denoising & lens correction features of DxO PureRaw.

Exactly, that's how it's meant to be used. There's a full unlimited 30 days trial of DxO PureRaw available.

The DeNoising technology of DXO can be GPU accelerated, if one's available. It takes about 1mn per image on my 5800H latpop vs 3secs on my desktop with 3090Ti.

sercheese said:
I don't really understand why there is also DxO Photolab, as it doesn't have the Data Management component. It has more editing features, but so do Lightroom, right?

DxO Photolab is meant to be used as a standalone, replacing LightRoom. It provides additional tools to DxO PureRaw.

sercheese said:
How do you manage your files, while using only DxO Photolab?
I've used to use Lightroom back in the days as there was only the vanilla version. I am sure I want the classic version nowadays, as I will process all photos solely on my laptop.

By simply ordering them into folders; no import process necessary.

sercheese said:
I went today for a walk with my wife and I tested the new camera And I asked her, if she could also take few pictures of me and she was happy that they came sharp. So I have laid some foundations

Great ^^

Rock and Rollei · Mar 17, 2023

thunder storm said:
sercheese said:

Is it possible to assign a custom button for switching between metering modes?

And is it possible to assign the ring on the lens to change ISO?

Click to expand...

You can change functions for the ring on the lens by changing settings on the camera. I don't know if ISO is one of the available functions though.

It is. In fact I think it is on every Canon that has a programmable lens ring, back to the S90. It's generally what I have it set to, although I don't use it much.

thunder storm said:
thunder storm said:

Then I could change the normal dial (which is together with on off switch) to make it change the metering mode.

Click to expand...

On the R5 that "normal dial" isn't combined with the on/of switch. You can push the middle of that "normal dial" to toggle functions for the dial itself, and that can be used for changing metering modes without taking your eye from the viewfinder.

I have no idea what the R6II does or doesn't.

thunder storm said:

I have made some adjustments to other settings (I.ex. AF mode) and buttons but I don't see any option for what I described above.

Click to expand...

I don't change ISO so often. I'm also using the drop in filter adapter, so for my EF lenses the ring of the control ring adapter can't be used always. Therefor I'm using Fn + front dial to change ISO. Maybe that's a work around for you as well? That way you can use the ring on the lens for something else if ISO isn't an option.

You might want to search on YT for a tutorial with a good table of content.

Struggling between RF USM and STM lineup as an amateur

Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Member

Member

Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Member

Leading Member

Member

Forum Pro

Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Member

Forum Pro

Member

Senior Member

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts