Are you satisfied with your denoise software?

I am posing this question to those of you who have added denoise software to your workflow outside of Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One etc. The ones that come to mind are the big three 1) Topaz Denoise AI, DXO Pure Raw 2 and On1 No Noise AI. I have demo-ed all three and find the results can be somewhat disappointing in some cases and just OK in others. It seems to remove noise at the expense of smearing or blurring detail.

I am mainly asking this question to those who print at least 11 x 14 or A3. Are you happy you purchased?

Thanks for any constructive info....
I've been using DXO Photolab (so DXO DeepPrime) and have been very happy with it. I tried Topaz but didn't like the results as much especially on high ISO files like ISO 3200 where there was considerable luminance noise. Lightroom's NR is sort of a joke in most cases unless it's very slight noise. But for really high ISO files (say ISO 3200 or higher) I don't trust LR's algorithms and have just settled on DXO.
 
I am posing this question to those of you who have added denoise software to your workflow outside of Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One etc. The ones that come to mind are the big three 1) Topaz Denoise AI, DXO Pure Raw 2 and On1 No Noise AI. I have demo-ed all three and find the results can be somewhat disappointing in some cases and just OK in others. It seems to remove noise at the expense of smearing or blurring detail.
Well, even the greatest NR software cannot bring back detail where none was captured. AI can take a stab at filling in shapes and contours but there is a physical limit, entropy increase is an irreversible process.
I am mainly asking this question to those who print at least 11 x 14 or A3. Are you happy you purchased?
Overall, yes. I acquired NeatImage (native linux version) and have updated several times at reasonable rates over the years. Darktable's profiled NR has also improved greatly over the years.
Thanks for any constructive info....
I tend to go easy on the NR and try to use masks as much as possible to keep it from destroying too much fine detail but the main strategy with image noise is to avoid capturing it to begin with. I sacrifice shutter speed over ISO which is only possible due to in-body stabilization (Pentax shake reduction system) and I use the KP which delivers one of the best low-noise, high-ISO raw files I can find in the APS-C world. Only way to better that is to go full frame and I do not want that.

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I use, and like, DxO PRIME. It made my recent trip to the northern California redwoods photographically possible. The forests are dark. Here is my review with samples and others' comments:

 
I am posing this question to those of you who have added denoise software to your workflow outside of Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One etc. The ones that come to mind are the big three 1) Topaz Denoise AI, DXO Pure Raw 2 and On1 No Noise AI. I have demo-ed all three and find the results can be somewhat disappointing in some cases and just OK in others. It seems to remove noise at the expense of smearing or blurring detail.

I am mainly asking this question to those who print at least 11 x 14 or A3. Are you happy you purchased?

Thanks for any constructive info....
It depends a lot on what you shoot, how little light you have to work with, and what your expectations are.

First, a level-set: Good noise reduction doesn't remove detail, because, especially with high-ISO images, that detail was never in the file in the first place. Not even the Platonic ideal of noise reduction could make a high-ISO image yield the same level of detail as a low-ISO version. That said, I find DxO's DeepPRIME and DeepPRIME XD remarkably good at mining detail from high-ISO images that would otherwise look like mush covered with rainbow sprinkles if processed with Lightroom.

Noise reduction can be useful at all exposure (ISO) levels. At base ISO, DeepPRIME nicely removes the subtle noise that can appear in a blue sky. But, it's especially useful at the threshold where a camera begins to give up noticeable amounts of detail - around ISO 3200 with Micro Four Thirds and ISO 6400 with 35mm format. I find that DeepPRIME gives me about two more stops, which lets me shoot event work with my a7RIII at ISO 25,600 and still get images that'll look good in a 24" print. If you shoot high-ISO a lot, this is a game-changer.

As an event pro, I consider DxO PhotoLab the single most cost-effective investment I can make in improving the image quality of my work. $200 to gain two more usable stops from all of my cameras and lenses? Take my money!

As an aside, since you mentioned print sizes as well as noise reduction, DxO's lens profiles yield superior detail from all my RAWs, regardless of ISO, than what I get from Lightroom defaults. Often, I can get similar detail from Lightroom by manually applying fine USM, but that's extra work I don't have to do with PhotoLab, and the latter's automatic geometry corrections are better, too. In short, PhotoLab gets me a crisp, clean, well-corrected image that's ready for print prep with less work.
 
I use, and like, DxO PRIME. It made my recent trip to the northern California redwoods photographically possible. The forests are dark. Here is my review with samples and others' comments:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4701853
What prevented you from using a tripod on that static scene and use low ISO? Nothing!
I rarely take my tripod on trips where I fly. Too heavy. I also wanted to try the low light hand held ability of the camera and software.
 
I use, and like, DxO PRIME. It made my recent trip to the northern California redwoods photographically possible. The forests are dark. Here is my review with samples and others' comments:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4701853
What prevented you from using a tripod on that static scene and use low ISO? Nothing!
He did not need a tripod. Just corrected SS
That's a poor explanation for poor photographic compromises!
 
I use, and like, DxO PRIME. It made my recent trip to the northern California redwoods photographically possible. The forests are dark. Here is my review with samples and others' comments:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4701853
What prevented you from using a tripod on that static scene and use low ISO? Nothing!
Um...not having one?
So purchased bad software instead of a good tripod... IMHO quite a poor choice!
 
I use, and like, DxO PRIME. It made my recent trip to the northern California redwoods photographically possible. The forests are dark. Here is my review with samples and others' comments:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4701853
What prevented you from using a tripod on that static scene and use low ISO? Nothing!
Um...not having one?
So purchased bad software instead of a good tripod... IMHO quite a poor choice!
The OP has already explained why he didn't have a tripod with him even though he owns one. You can get off your high horse now. Also, PhotoLab is excellent software.

Believe it or not, your choices for yourself are not always the best choices for everyone else.

--
"Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. Because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos
 
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I use, and like, DxO PRIME. It made my recent trip to the northern California redwoods photographically possible. The forests are dark. Here is my review with samples and others' comments:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4701853
What prevented you from using a tripod on that static scene and use low ISO? Nothing!
He did not need a tripod. Just corrected SS
That's a poor explanation for poor photographic compromises!
OMG! It was poor explanation?

For those who are not photographers. Photo we are talking about was taken with following settings:

FL (focus length) = 50 mm, which means that min handheld SS (shutter speed) is 1/50 sec.

Therefore, instead of SS (shutter speed)=1/250, Aperture F=5.6, and ISO=2500 photographer could use SS=1/125, f=5.6 ISO=1250,

or SS=1/60 f=5.6 ISO= 600

with the same depth of field as original photo. Of course, I count on photographer who knows how to hand camera with minimal handshake.

If you do not know where I took all these numbers, it is your problem, not mine.

--
If you want to be equal, you have to be better...
 
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I use, and like, DxO PRIME. It made my recent trip to the northern California redwoods photographically possible. The forests are dark. Here is my review with samples and others' comments:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4701853
What prevented you from using a tripod on that static scene and use low ISO? Nothing!
He did not need a tripod. Just corrected SS
That's a poor explanation for poor photographic compromises!
OK, then you explain it.

So much criticism, so little contribution.
 
I am speaking for processing noisy pictures RAW from small sensors

I am very familiar for many years with DXO PL , All Topaz AI stuffs and ON1 Photo RAW with all the latest versions

I tested many times all combinations of these 3 denoising tools and my conclusion is that I always get my best results with a combination of two of them

So the first unbeatable step is demosaic and denoise with DXO PL6 with DeepPrime Xd

Most of the time when I still see some annoying noise and to sharpen I reach my best result processing the DXO PL TIFF File with ON1 PR 2023 using Nonoise AI and Tack sharp AI

Sometimes we can get pleasant results with one Topaz stuff but it's too much unpredictable so using Topaz stuff recquired too much time to check again and again the results. I don't give up with Topaz but still with Photo AI the results are too much inconsistent
 
I upgraded to a R7 which has CR3 format. That ended my ability to use an old version of Bridge for raw edits. I don’t use subscription software (financial parasite). I tried Affinity but at the time there was only a 10 day trial, no way I could evaluate it in that time but it was a lot like Bridge. I’m now trying DXO and it’s good as others have noted but I have not mastered the controls. Working on it. I recently stacked 90 raw images, processed in DXO photolab 6 elite. It slightly changed the size of the last 60 images which destroyed the stack. Perhaps the lens correction mode did something? I’m trying to figure it out.

I also have Neat Image and it does a good job. I compared it to Topaz denoise, which was slightly better in sharpening fine detail, but only observable when enlarged.
 
Yes, I'm happy with DxO PhotoLab v6.

Moderately happy with Topaz Denoise AI, but I would only use it on images that I can't process using DeepPRIME (i.e. non-raw images).
Noise reduction and sharpening for detail are two sides of the same coin. While Photolab 6 noise reduction of RAW files is excellent and I use it whereber possible, PL 6 lacks the best sharpening routines. For many files the sharpening of Topaz software and in some cases Luminar Neo will provide a better overall result. I print almost exclusively on13x19" and 17x22" papers and occasionally on 17x25".
 
Yes, I'm happy with DxO PhotoLab v6.

Moderately happy with Topaz Denoise AI, but I would only use it on images that I can't process using DeepPRIME (i.e. non-raw images).
Noise reduction and sharpening for detail are two sides of the same coin. While Photolab 6 noise reduction of RAW files is excellent and I use it whereber possible, PL 6 lacks the best sharpening routines.
OTOH, DxO's lens profiles apply excellent capture sharpening. For creative and output sharpening, I rely on Lightroom.
For many files the sharpening of Topaz software and in some cases Luminar Neo will provide a better overall result. I print almost exclusively on13x19" and 17x22" papers and occasionally on 17x25".
 
Yes, I'm happy with DxO PhotoLab v6.

Moderately happy with Topaz Denoise AI, but I would only use it on images that I can't process using DeepPRIME (i.e. non-raw images).
Noise reduction and sharpening for detail are two sides of the same coin. While Photolab 6 noise reduction of RAW files is excellent and I use it whereber possible, PL 6 lacks the best sharpening routines.
OTOH, DxO's lens profiles apply excellent capture sharpening. For creative and output sharpening, I rely on Lightroom.
For many files the sharpening of Topaz software and in some cases Luminar Neo will provide a better overall result. I print almost exclusively on13x19" and 17x22" papers and occasionally on 17x25".
Whatever capture sharpening is applied by DxO isn't a complete solution, as you note. In fact, DxO has a separate independent sharpening module, which strongly suggests that DxO understands the limitations of whatever sharpening is automatically applied.

Sharpening in Photoshop is not the same as Lightroom and Photoshop has no dedicated output sharpening.

Depending on the photo if I want the best quality sharpening, following whatever rudimentary sharpening is applied by DxO, I will use Topaz or Neo. This is particularly effective for high ISO. I will also do an output sharpening for inkjet printing some photos with either NIK or the old Photokit output sharpener.

Teatro Colon, Buenos Aires
Teatro Colon, Buenos Aires

Note: the lens was a fisheye, not 50mm as reported by the camera. While DxO provided good noise reduction, sharpening outside DxO (Topaz) was required to bring in detail.
 
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I am speaking for processing noisy pictures RAW from small sensors

I am very familiar for many years with DXO PL , All Topaz AI stuffs and ON1 Photo RAW with all the latest versions

I tested many times all combinations of these 3 denoising tools and my conclusion is that I always get my best results with a combination of two of them

So the first unbeatable step is demosaic and denoise with DXO PL6 with DeepPrime Xd

Most of the time when I still see some annoying noise and to sharpen I reach my best result processing the DXO PL TIFF File with ON1 PR 2023 using Nonoise AI and Tack sharp AI

Sometimes we can get pleasant results with one Topaz stuff but it's too much unpredictable so using Topaz stuff recquired too much time to check again and again the results. I don't give up with Topaz but still with Photo AI the results are too much inconsistent
not sure what "annoying noise" you talk about

but no mattter how good AI noise reduction is, i personally set denoise gentle enough, leave a little bit of noise that i consider to be kind of grain make image look natural.

you know you really don't have to denoise your image too clean at 100% pixel peep.

And as i see, AI noise reduction still have trouble to deal with shadow, dark area noise.
 

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