How can we understand this statement from Canon regarding M?

https://phototrend.fr/2023/03/interview-canon-cpplus-2023/

L’EOS R50 est l’un de vos boîtiers les plus récents. Dans quelle mesure a-t-il été inspiré par l’EOS M50 ? Signe-t-il la fin de la gamme EOS-M ?

Tetsuji Kiyomi : La particularité du R50 était que nous voulions sortir un produit compact et léger. De son côté, la gamme EOS M, grâce au diamètre réduit de la monture EF-M, pouvait être encore plus petite et légère.

Ainsi, la compacité et la légèreté sont donc deux points communs entre les modèles APS-C de la gamme EOS R et ceux de la série EOS M.

Cependant, le gabarit des boîtiers de la série M est encore plus réduit, et il existe toujours une forte demande en ce sens de la part de nos clients. Cela signifie que nous continuerons à proposer la série EOS M, car nous devons répondre à cette forte demande.

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Google Translation:

The EOS R50 is one of your newer cameras. How was it inspired by the EOS M50? Does it sign the end of the EOS-M range?

Tetsuji Kiyomi: The particularity of the R50 was that we wanted to release a compact and light product. For its part, the EOS M range, thanks to the reduced diameter of the EF-M mount, could be even smaller and lighter.

Thus, compactness and lightness are therefore two common points between the APS-C models of the EOS R range and those of the EOS M series.

However, the size of the M-series enclosures is even smaller, and there is still a strong demand for this from our customers. This means that we will continue to offer the EOS M series as we need to meet this high demand.

I think Canon will produce and sell Canon EOS 50MII and Canon EOS M200 cameras. But I doubt Canon will design new cameras and lenses on the EFM system.

To be honest, I don't think even Canon knows what the future of M looks like. They appear to be taking a "let's see how it goes" approach.

If they actually took EF-M in the direction of ultra compact... that would be awesome! Imagine even more compact primes than the 22mm. A revised M200. A revised M6ii. Doesn't make any sense but it would be cool.

My guess is they will milk the remnants of EF-M until uninformed consumers stop buying it in mass and/or once they finish filling out the entry level of RF.

istscott said:

If they actually took EF-M in the direction of ultra compact... that would be awesome! Imagine even more compact primes than the 22mm. A revised M200. A revised M6ii. Doesn't make any sense but it would be cool.

My guess is they will milk the remnants of EF-M until uninformed consumers stop buying it in mass and/or once they finish filling out the entry level of RF.

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Or it continues to be the choice of informed consumers which equate no lenses = no sale.

--
KEG

istscott said:

If they actually took EF-M in the direction of ultra compact... that would be awesome! Imagine even more compact primes than the 22mm. A revised M200. A revised M6ii. Doesn't make any sense but it would be cool.

My guess is they will milk the remnants of EF-M until uninformed consumers stop buying it in mass and/or once they finish filling out the entry level of RF.

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Uninformed consumers don't know of the existence of EOS M to buy it in the first place, never mind buy it en masse. It's people predicting the end of EOS M that are getting in the way of a 32Mpx M100 II (which i would buy instantly) or M50 III. Right now, there isn't anything as compact as an M200, even in micro four-thirds (110 film size) format. The other problem for people like us is that most people don't seem to want to buy ultra compact cameras.

Easy. They simply can't say anything else or they risk killing M sales off completely.

R2

istscott said:

If they actually took EF-M in the direction of ultra compact... that would be awesome! Imagine even more compact primes than the 22mm. A revised M200. A revised M6ii. Doesn't make any sense but it would be cool.

My guess is they will milk the remnants of EF-M until uninformed consumers stop buying it in mass and/or once they finish filling out the entry level of RF.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily uninformed. Perhaps informed enough to know that M-System exactly meets their needs so buy it while it’s still available new.

istscott said:

If they actually took EF-M in the direction of ultra compact... that would be awesome! Imagine even more compact primes than the 22mm. A revised M200. A revised M6ii. Doesn't make any sense but it would be cool.

My guess is they will milk the remnants of EF-M until uninformed consumers stop buying it in mass and/or once they finish filling out the entry level of RF.

Click to expand...

pretty easy for me to assess

when they discontinued the m6II, the only m body I would buy, and they didn't announce a replacement, I was informed enough to be done buying more m stuff, though I'll keep using my m32 f1.4 and 11-22 until they are done, unless I find logical alternatives, then sell them

R2D2 said:

Easy. They simply can't say anything else or they risk killing M sales off completely.

R2

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+1

R2D2 said:

Easy. They simply can't say anything else or they risk killing M sales off completely.

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conversely doesn’t this statement risk cutting into sales of APS-C R bodies?

R2D2 said:

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

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Fascinating. Thanks for posting this.

lumenite said:

https://phototrend.fr/2023/03/interview-canon-cpplus-2023/

Google Translation:

The EOS R50 is one of your newer cameras. How was it inspired by the EOS M50? Does it sign the end of the EOS-M range?

Tetsuji Kiyomi: The particularity of the R50 was that we wanted to release a compact and light product. For its part, the EOS M range, thanks to the reduced diameter of the EF-M mount, could be even smaller and lighter.

Thus, compactness and lightness are therefore two common points between the APS-C models of the EOS R range and those of the EOS M series.

However, the size of the M-series enclosures is even smaller, and there is still a strong demand for this from our customers. This means that we will continue to offer the EOS M series as we need to meet this high demand.

Click to expand...

That last line pretty much sums everything up. Canon have admitted last year that the EOS M sales brought in a significant portion of their revenue. There's still quite a firm demand for the EOS M-system cameras, even with the EOS R-system so clearly attempting to shore up sales right now. Canon had no choice but to retire the EOS M6 II because they were using the same sensor in one of their new APS-C EOS R-system cameras. There's no way they could leave it out there because it would draw comparisons and possibly even ridicule from reviewers. But in yanking their M Flagship camera at the time, they've left the platform undefended. And by flooding the market with alternatives that nobody was asking for, it's clear they've well and truly overextended themselves.
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Their naming convention no longer defines a difference between Full Frame and APS-C models and their decision to pollute their new R-System with different sized sensors is causing the very mayhem I predicted it would. To make matters even worse, they've flooded the shelves with even more new models and now the poor dealers are stuck with a combination of older (discontinued?) R models they can't shift, which ties up their finances. It's perhaps not as much of a problem for the really large city stores with high volume and high turnover but then we have all the absurd pricing with the new lenses which are ultimately larger, bulkier and fail to appeal to the new age of digital photographers who demand smaller equipment.
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Canon have waltzed themselves right into a corner here. Yes, you could possibly argue that the R-mount is good. It's certainly better than the EF mount. But it's not what consumers want. And that same group of buyers who seem blissfully unaware of the existence of the EOS-M mount are also incapable of deciphering which new R-models are Full Frame or APS-C... nor do they tend to care. And the more choices there are, the less likely people are to purchase because they'll inevitably stray to another brand and Canon then loses a sale whilst simultaneously reinforcing another brand. They learned this very lesson in the early 2000s. How they could make the same mistake again shows a lack of firm guidance from within the company.
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But Canon think they're cosy now that they've squeezed what they can into the R-System from what they learned on the M-System. The problem is that they're no longer listening to their consumers, regardless of that they state publicly these days. But we're in a worldwide recession and an economic disaster zone right now. People aren't spending the money they used to. Everyone has a phone with a decent camera in it. So either Canon responds in an appropriate manner or they might be one of the first big companies to fall. Their own mission statement in 2017 claimed they expected only three major companies to survive the purge.
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But from the translated article, I'd say Canon is well aware that they're sown confusion in the market with many of their puzzling decisions over the last half a decade. Personally, I don't think they deserve my money any more. It would be in their interest to release a new M-Series camera body or two to invigorate sales and help sell more EF-M lenses. But I don't expect anything logical from Canon any more. There was no need to redesign the new Hotshoe that supports the newer flashes whilst being overly sensitive to a single drop of water over the contacts. People weren't clamoring for these tiny, cheap lenses rebranded from the EF-M range. When I visit camera dealers I've know for decades, they look sad. They explain how sales are down and how they haven't seen me in a while. But people reevaluated their lives over the last three years of lockdowns... and now it doesn't make any sense for them to spend big on large, expensive cameras any more.
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Good luck, Canon. You're going to need it.

Thanks for this post.

lumenite said:

https://phototrend.fr/2023/03/interview-canon-cpplus-2023/

>>

Google Translation:

The EOS R50 is one of your newer cameras. How was it inspired by the EOS M50? Does it sign the end of the EOS-M range?

Tetsuji Kiyomi: The particularity of the R50 was that we wanted to release a compact and light product. For its part, the EOS M range, thanks to the reduced diameter of the EF-M mount, could be even smaller and lighter.

Click to expand...

This have been said thousands of times in here by me and others. And now finally Canon has admitted it. That is great.

Hopefully this means they will release some new tiny bodies and lenses.

lumenite said:

Thus, compactness and lightness are therefore two common points between the APS-C models of the EOS R range and those of the EOS M series.

However, the size of the M-series enclosures is even smaller,

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Yes. The R mount is too large.

lumenite said:

and there is still a strong demand for this from our customers.

This means that we will continue to offer the EOS M series as we need to meet this high demand.

Click to expand...

Yes. Not continuing EOS M would be crazy.

That statement is more interesting than I was expecting in that he admits M fills a niche that R cannot due to the size. However, even with an optimistic outlook I still can't see them doing any more than continuing to produce the M50ii and/or M200 and some of the lenses. R50 signaled the official end of development for the M line in my mind, though the writing was on the wall well before that.

My interpretation:

(1) Canon knows that the majority of the M users chose EOS M because of the small and compactness. And also understand that this small and compactness will be difficult to achieve with RF-S (both bodies and lenses).

(2) There is still a strong demand for EOS M series and they are not so stupid to kill it yet.

My guess:

Canon will still be maintain the production of M50ii and M200, until one day the sales drop to a point where it is no longer profitable to maintain the production.

Canon might release new model (M300 or M50iii) if the sale/demand remain strong. But it is unlikely to be any high end model (e.g. 32mp).

Canon might not be introducing new RF-S lenses anytime soon as they think that their RF lenses lineup is pretty extensive and complete.

lumenite said:

https://phototrend.fr/2023/03/interview-canon-cpplus-2023/

L’EOS R50 est l’un de vos boîtiers les plus récents. Dans quelle mesure a-t-il été inspiré par l’EOS M50 ? Signe-t-il la fin de la gamme EOS-M ?

Tetsuji Kiyomi : La particularité du R50 était que nous voulions sortir un produit compact et léger. De son côté, la gamme EOS M, grâce au diamètre réduit de la monture EF-M, pouvait être encore plus petite et légère.

Ainsi, la compacité et la légèreté sont donc deux points communs entre les modèles APS-C de la gamme EOS R et ceux de la série EOS M.

Cependant, le gabarit des boîtiers de la série M est encore plus réduit, et il existe toujours une forte demande en ce sens de la part de nos clients. Cela signifie que nous continuerons à proposer la série EOS M, car nous devons répondre à cette forte demande.

>>

Google Translation:

The EOS R50 is one of your newer cameras. How was it inspired by the EOS M50? Does it sign the end of the EOS-M range?

Tetsuji Kiyomi: The particularity of the R50 was that we wanted to release a compact and light product. For its part, the EOS M range, thanks to the reduced diameter of the EF-M mount, could be even smaller and lighter.

Thus, compactness and lightness are therefore two common points between the APS-C models of the EOS R range and those of the EOS M series.

However, the size of the M-series enclosures is even smaller, and there is still a strong demand for this from our customers. This means that we will continue to offer the EOS M series as we need to meet this high demand.

Click to expand...

There might not be a R100 coming ?

Or a RF-S 22mm or RF-S 32mm ?

I would buy a M5 Mark II.

--
Dr. says listen to this every morning.

M4Mobility said:

MyM6II wrote:
Yes. Not continuing EOS M would be crazy.

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The M50 was Canon's best selling M. The R50 makes it redundant. I doubt that we will ever see a "new improved" M body.

The counter argument is that, in the long-run, continuing to support two incompatible mounts would be crazy.

lumenite said:

lumenite wrote: This means that we will continue to offer the EOS M series as we need to meet this high demand.

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"Continue to offer", as in "never develop a new M model".

A Canon Imaging Asia youtube commercial has the text "Introducing the new Canon EOS R50, a successor to the ever popular EOS M50 Mark II!"

Given a choice, most buyers will choose the "new improved" R50 over the "old unimproved" M50, and the latter will slowly fade away.

And the M50 was Canon's best selling M.

Marco Nero said:

Marco Nero wrote:.

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Marco Nero said:

snipped.....
But from the translated article, I'd say Canon is well aware that they're sown confusion in the market with many of their puzzling decisions over the last half a decade. Personally, I don't think they deserve my money any more. It would be in their interest to release a new M-Series camera body or two to invigorate sales and help sell more EF-M lenses. But I don't expect anything logical from Canon any more. There was no need to redesign the new Hotshoe that supports the newer flashes whilst being overly sensitive to a single drop of water over the contacts. People weren't clamoring for these tiny, cheap lenses rebranded from the EF-M range. When I visit camera dealers I've know for decades, they look sad. They explain how sales are down and how they haven't seen me in a while. But people reevaluated their lives over the last three years of lockdowns... and now it doesn't make any sense for them to spend big on large, expensive cameras any more.
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Good luck, Canon. You're going to need it.

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I agree with this statement and, my M6 II purchase last summer was the very last as I will also stay away from any future spending on any Canon gear.