Moving from Canon M system

navinadvani said:

Now that Canon has decided not to support the M system, I am considering moving from it.

The options are to move to Canon's R system or another company (Fuji / Sony).

The overall weight of the system is an essential consideration. My current M system (total weight of <1.4kg) includes the following:

Canon M50 (24MP) - 390 gms
Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 - 105gm
Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM - 220gms (my primary lens)
Canon EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM - 235gms
Canon EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM - 130gms
Canon EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM - 260gms

I want the new system not to exceed 1.5kg (with 3 zoom lenses and 2 primes) and hopefully weigh less than my current system. Additionally, I prefer a body with an EVF (which almost eliminates the Sony ZVE10). Fuji does not have a lightweight lens like the Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM, Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM or even the Sony E 10-20mm F4 PZ G.

I also use a 50/1.4, which works as a portrait lens, but I don't carry this everywhere as it is very bulky and heavy with the EF to EFM adapter. I'd have to add a Fujifilm XF 50mm F2 R WR or a Sony FE 55mm F1.8 ZA to compensate for this lens.

Option 1: 1.5 kg

Canon EOS R50 - 375 gms
Canon RF 16mm F2.8 STM - 165 gms
Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM - 240 gms
Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro - 305 gms
Canon RF-S 18-45mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM - 130 gms
Canon RF-S 55-210mm F5.0-7.1 IS STM - 270 gms

Option 2: 1.4 kg but no EVF

Sony ZV-E10 - 343 gms
Sony E 15mm F1.4 G - 219 gms
Sony E 10-18mm F4 OSS - 225 gms
Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS - 155 gms
Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS - 116 gms
Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS - 345 gms

I could save 140 gms by replacing the 15/1.4 with the Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake (78 gms).

Option 3: 1.6kg, so over my 1.5kg threshold

Fujifilm X-T200 - 370 gms
Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R - 116 gms
Fujifilm XF 10-24mm F4 R OIS - 385 gms
Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R - 187 gms
Fujifilm XC 15-45mm F3.5-5.6 OIS PZ - 136 gms
Fujifilm XC 50-230mm F4.5-6.7 OIS - 375 gms

I could save about 100 gms by replacing the 35/1.4 with the XF 27mm f/2.8 Pancake.

Should I stick with Canon? If so, should I get the R50 or the R10 (which is a little bigger/heavier)? Or should I continue with my M system till it dies?

If I shift, I'd have the following (in addition to my above system) to offer as a trade-in. These items have not been used since 2019 but have been serviced by Canon annually (every May).

Canon 77D body

Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS

If you think I should continue with the M system, what should I trade in the above 77D-based system for?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

navinadvani said:

Now that Canon has decided not to support the M system, I am considering moving from it.

The options are to move to Canon's R system or another company (Fuji / Sony).

The overall weight of the system is an essential consideration. My current M system (total weight of <1.4kg) includes the following:

Canon M50 (24MP) - 390 gms
Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 - 105gm
Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM - 220gms (my primary lens)
Canon EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM - 235gms
Canon EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM - 130gms
Canon EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM - 260gms

I want the new system not to exceed 1.5kg (with 3 zoom lenses and 2 primes) and hopefully weigh less than my current system. Additionally, I prefer a body with an EVF (which almost eliminates the Sony ZVE10). Fuji does not have a lightweight lens like the Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM, Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM or even the Sony E 10-20mm F4 PZ G.

I also use a 50/1.4, which works as a portrait lens, but I don't carry this everywhere as it is very bulky and heavy with the EF to EFM adapter. I'd have to add a Fujifilm XF 50mm F2 R WR or a Sony FE 55mm F1.8 ZA to compensate for this lens.

Option 1: 1.5 kg

Canon EOS R50 - 375 gms
Canon RF 16mm F2.8 STM - 165 gms
Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM - 240 gms
Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro - 305 gms
Canon RF-S 18-45mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM - 130 gms
Canon RF-S 55-210mm F5.0-7.1 IS STM - 270 gms

Option 2: 1.4 kg but no EVF

Sony ZV-E10 - 343 gms
Sony E 15mm F1.4 G - 219 gms
Sony E 10-18mm F4 OSS - 225 gms
Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS - 155 gms
Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS - 116 gms
Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS - 345 gms

I could save 140 gms by replacing the 15/1.4 with the Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake (78 gms).

Option 3: 1.6kg, so over my 1.5kg threshold

Fujifilm X-T200 - 370 gms
Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R - 116 gms
Fujifilm XF 10-24mm F4 R OIS - 385 gms
Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R - 187 gms
Fujifilm XC 15-45mm F3.5-5.6 OIS PZ - 136 gms
Fujifilm XC 50-230mm F4.5-6.7 OIS - 375 gms

I could save about 100 gms by replacing the 35/1.4 with the XF 27mm f/2.8 Pancake.

Should I stick with Canon? If so, should I get the R50 or the R10 (which is a little bigger/heavier)? Or should I continue with my M system till it dies?

If I shift, I'd have the following (in addition to my above system) to offer as a trade-in. These items have not been used since 2019 but have been serviced by Canon annually (every May).

Canon 77D body

Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS

If you think I should continue with the M system, what should I trade in the above 77D-based system for?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

koenkooi said:

I'm planning to replace my M6II with an R8, I will use it mostly as a 2nd body for my R5. I wanted something relatively small and I loathe the M50 form factor and pitiful excuse for an EVF, but loved the RP when I owned it.

My plan is to mostly use the RF16 and RF50 to keep the size down. If Canon had published a roadmap listing RF equivalents for the EF-M22, EF-M 11-22 and not-going-to-happen-but-I-can-hope EF-M32, I'd have looked real hard at the R10.

Your picks for the R50 lenses are well reasoned, but I wonder how you are going to like using the 10-18+adapter when coming from the tiny 11-22mm. I don't have a better recommendation, though.

Click to expand...

Laqup said:

If you get the R8 + 24-240 (414g + 750g), you can pretty much replace:

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0
Canon EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM
Canon EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM

with a single lens. Of course with the execption of the tele range beyond 240mm.

In pure terms of "optical output" the zoom will be somewhat similar to the 22 f/2.0 that is actually an 35 f/3.2 in FF terms (only image look, for exposure f/2.0 is f/2.0, to be clear!)

Wide angle can be covered with the Canon RF 15-30mm (390g) or RF 16mm f/2.8 (165g), and the EF-M 32mm is logically replaced by the RF 50mm 1.8 (160g).

R8 + RF 24-240 + RF 16 + RF 50 will net you a total of 1489g.

Of course all of this is a trade-off. The R8 will be much more capable and the better body compared to the R50, but you have to lug around more weight "in hand" in combination with those FF lenses and you gain some volume. On the other side, the zoom gives you additional creative possibilities (as f/4.0 - f/6.3 cleary outperforms f/3.5 -f/6.3 on APS-C in the overlapping range) with the 50mm not being an exception (50mm 1.8 will yield shallower depth of field than 32mm 1.4). Build quality and some of the optical attributes of the 32mm 1.4 might be better though. Overall image quality will probably be slightly better, as the 15-45 and 55-200 are nothing to write home about (allthough performance of the 55-200 is solid for it's size and volume).

From my point of view I would not "rebuy" all of those to a certain degree similar RF-S lenses (yes I know that there are slight differences to EF-M) but I would rather try to seek an actual solid upgrade. If it has to be APS-C due to weight limitations I would not hesitate to buy a fuji body. The APS-C RF bodies are either sold as "complementary" to their bigger brothers (e.g. R7 for wildlife) or meant as some kind of "affordable bait" to lure you into the RF fullframe system (R50, R10) and to have an upgrade path. I see no clear intention from Canon to actually put out a full fledged RF-S system, this will probably be similar to the EF-M system, aka 1-2 new lenses per year and a few body upgrades in between.

Click to expand...

RLight said:

I advise against the 24-240, I owned it, it was not a “fun” lens. Too bulky. Consider the RF24-105, either or the 24-50. It’s more M-like. Trust me as a former M owner, fun factor is a thing. The 24-240 struggled indoors with AF, couldn’t do macro distances, swung around a ton, and had clinical rendering. It’s certainly sharp, reach, but fun? Nope. Consider the RF-S 18-150 instead.

Click to expand...

Alastair Norcross said:

I would stick with your current system for now, and see what Canon releases in RF-S. I think it’s quite likely that they’ll release the 22 pancake and the 11-22 (or close equivalents). Both the RF 16 and 50 are small and light too, and work very well on crop RF (I use them on my R7). Your current M kit still works well, though doesn’t it? I use my M6II and EF-M lenses alongside my R gear. I don’t care that Canon isn’t making more M stuff. That doesn’t stop what I have working.

Click to expand...

navinadvani said:

Now that Canon has decided not to support the M system, I am considering moving from it.

Click to expand...

navinadvani said:

Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS

If you think I should continue with the M system, what should I trade in the above 77D-based system for?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

RLight said:

I advise against the 24-240, I owned it, it was not a “fun” lens. Too bulky. Consider the RF24-105, either or the 24-50. It’s more M-like. Trust me as a former M owner, fun factor is a thing. The 24-240 struggled indoors with AF, couldn’t do macro distances, swung around a ton, and had clinical rendering. It’s certainly sharp, reach, but fun? Nope. Consider the RF-S 18-150 instead.

Click to expand...

RLight said:

Laqup said:

If you get the R8 + 24-240 (414g + 750g), you can pretty much replace:

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0
Canon EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM
Canon EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM

with a single lens. Of course with the execption of the tele range beyond 240mm.

In pure terms of "optical output" the zoom will be somewhat similar to the 22 f/2.0 that is actually an 35 f/3.2 in FF terms (only image look, for exposure f/2.0 is f/2.0, to be clear!)

Wide angle can be covered with the Canon RF 15-30mm (390g) or RF 16mm f/2.8 (165g), and the EF-M 32mm is logically replaced by the RF 50mm 1.8 (160g).

R8 + RF 24-240 + RF 16 + RF 50 will net you a total of 1489g.

Of course all of this is a trade-off. The R8 will be much more capable and the better body compared to the R50, but you have to lug around more weight "in hand" in combination with those FF lenses and you gain some volume. On the other side, the zoom gives you additional creative possibilities (as f/4.0 - f/6.3 cleary outperforms f/3.5 -f/6.3 on APS-C in the overlapping range) with the 50mm not being an exception (50mm 1.8 will yield shallower depth of field than 32mm 1.4). Build quality and some of the optical attributes of the 32mm 1.4 might be better though. Overall image quality will probably be slightly better, as the 15-45 and 55-200 are nothing to write home about (allthough performance of the 55-200 is solid for it's size and volume).

From my point of view I would not "rebuy" all of those to a certain degree similar RF-S lenses (yes I know that there are slight differences to EF-M) but I would rather try to seek an actual solid upgrade. If it has to be APS-C due to weight limitations I would not hesitate to buy a fuji body. The APS-C RF bodies are either sold as "complementary" to their bigger brothers (e.g. R7 for wildlife) or meant as some kind of "affordable bait" to lure you into the RF fullframe system (R50, R10) and to have an upgrade path. I see no clear intention from Canon to actually put out a full fledged RF-S system, this will probably be similar to the EF-M system, aka 1-2 new lenses per year and a few body upgrades in between.

Click to expand...

I advise against the 24-240, I owned it, it was not a “fun” lens. Too bulky. Consider the RF24-105, either or the 24-50. It’s more M-like. Trust me as a former M owner, fun factor is a thing. The 24-240 struggled indoors with AF, couldn’t do macro distances, swung around a ton, and had clinical rendering. It’s certainly sharp, reach, but fun? Nope. Consider the RF-S 18-150 instead.

Click to expand...

navinadvani said:

Now that Canon has decided not to support the M system, I am considering moving from it.

The options are to move to Canon's R system or another company (Fuji / Sony).

The overall weight of the system is an essential consideration. My current M system (total weight of <1.4kg) includes the following:

Canon M50 (24MP) - 390 gms
Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 - 105gm
Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM - 220gms (my primary lens)
Canon EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM - 235gms
Canon EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM - 130gms
Canon EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM - 260gms

I want the new system not to exceed 1.5kg (with 3 zoom lenses and 2 primes) and hopefully weigh less than my current system. Additionally, I prefer a body with an EVF (which almost eliminates the Sony ZVE10). Fuji does not have a lightweight lens like the Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM, Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM or even the Sony E 10-20mm F4 PZ G.

I also use a 50/1.4, which works as a portrait lens, but I don't carry this everywhere as it is very bulky and heavy with the EF to EFM adapter. I'd have to add a Fujifilm XF 50mm F2 R WR or a Sony FE 55mm F1.8 ZA to compensate for this lens.

Option 1: 1.5 kg

Canon EOS R50 - 375 gms
Canon RF 16mm F2.8 STM - 165 gms
Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM - 240 gms
Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro - 305 gms
Canon RF-S 18-45mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM - 130 gms
Canon RF-S 55-210mm F5.0-7.1 IS STM - 270 gms

Option 2: 1.4 kg but no EVF

Sony ZV-E10 - 343 gms
Sony E 15mm F1.4 G - 219 gms
Sony E 10-18mm F4 OSS - 225 gms
Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS - 155 gms
Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS - 116 gms
Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS - 345 gms

I could save 140 gms by replacing the 15/1.4 with the Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake (78 gms).

Option 3: 1.6kg, so over my 1.5kg threshold

Fujifilm X-T200 - 370 gms
Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R - 116 gms
Fujifilm XF 10-24mm F4 R OIS - 385 gms
Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R - 187 gms
Fujifilm XC 15-45mm F3.5-5.6 OIS PZ - 136 gms
Fujifilm XC 50-230mm F4.5-6.7 OIS - 375 gms

I could save about 100 gms by replacing the 35/1.4 with the XF 27mm f/2.8 Pancake.

Should I stick with Canon? If so, should I get the R50 or the R10 (which is a little bigger/heavier)? Or should I continue with my M system till it dies?

If I shift, I'd have the following (in addition to my above system) to offer as a trade-in. These items have not been used since 2019 but have been serviced by Canon annually (every May).

Canon 77D body

Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS

If you think I should continue with the M system, what should I trade in the above 77D-based system for?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

navinadvani said:

Now that Canon has decided not to support the M system, I am considering moving from it.

The options are to move to Canon's R system or another company (Fuji / Sony).

The overall weight of the system is an essential consideration. My current M system (total weight of <1.4kg) includes the following:

Canon M50 (24MP) - 390 gms
Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 - 105gm
Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM - 220gms (my primary lens)
Canon EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM - 235gms
Canon EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM - 130gms
Canon EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM - 260gms

Click to expand...

navinadvani said:

Now that Canon has decided not to support the M system, I am considering moving from it.

Click to expand...

navinadvani said:

The options are to move to Canon's R system or another company (Fuji / Sony).

The overall weight of the system is an essential consideration. My current M system (total weight of <1.4kg) includes the following:

Canon M50 (24MP) - 390 gms
Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 - 105gm
Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM - 220gms (my primary lens)
Canon EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM - 235gms
Canon EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM - 130gms
Canon EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM - 260gms

I want the new system not to exceed 1.5kg (with 3 zoom lenses and 2 primes) and hopefully weigh less than my current system. Additionally, I prefer a body with an EVF (which almost eliminates the Sony ZVE10). Fuji does not have a lightweight lens like the Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM, Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM or even the Sony E 10-20mm F4 PZ G.

I also use a 50/1.4, which works as a portrait lens, but I don't carry this everywhere as it is very bulky and heavy with the EF to EFM adapter. I'd have to add a Fujifilm XF 50mm F2 R WR or a Sony FE 55mm F1.8 ZA to compensate for this lens.

Option 1: 1.5 kg

Canon EOS R50 - 375 gms
Canon RF 16mm F2.8 STM - 165 gms
Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM - 240 gms
Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro - 305 gms
Canon RF-S 18-45mm F4.5-6.3 IS STM - 130 gms
Canon RF-S 55-210mm F5.0-7.1 IS STM - 270 gms

Option 2: 1.4 kg but no EVF

Sony ZV-E10 - 343 gms
Sony E 15mm F1.4 G - 219 gms
Sony E 10-18mm F4 OSS - 225 gms
Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS - 155 gms
Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS - 116 gms
Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS - 345 gms

I could save 140 gms by replacing the 15/1.4 with the Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake (78 gms).

Option 3: 1.6kg, so over my 1.5kg threshold

Fujifilm X-T200 - 370 gms
Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R - 116 gms
Fujifilm XF 10-24mm F4 R OIS - 385 gms
Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R - 187 gms
Fujifilm XC 15-45mm F3.5-5.6 OIS PZ - 136 gms
Fujifilm XC 50-230mm F4.5-6.7 OIS - 375 gms

I could save about 100 gms by replacing the 35/1.4 with the XF 27mm f/2.8 Pancake.

Should I stick with Canon? If so, should I get the R50 or the R10 (which is a little bigger/heavier)? Or should I continue with my M system till it dies?

If I shift, I'd have the following (in addition to my above system) to offer as a trade-in. These items have not been used since 2019 but have been serviced by Canon annually (every May).

Canon 77D body

Canon EF 28mm f/1.8
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 IS
Canon EF 100mm f/2
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro
Canon EF-S 18-55 4-5.6 IS STM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS

If you think I should continue with the M system, what should I trade in the above 77D-based system for?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

MAC said:

Canon EOS R8 Specifications (the-digital-picture.com)

Instead, are you open to selling about everything and spending $1499 and changing to an R8 FF body weighing CIPA Weight16.3 oz (461g) ???

Click to expand...

tkbslc said:

MAC said:

Canon EOS R8 Specifications (the-digital-picture.com)

Instead, are you open to selling about everything and spending $1499 and changing to an R8 FF body weighing CIPA Weight16.3 oz (461g) ???

Click to expand...

Would be hard to hit all OPs boxes with the weight requirements.

R8 or Rp is about 460g

16mm f2.8 165g

24-105 STM 395g

100-400 635g

50mm f1.8 160g

Already up to 1800g and we didn't even get a 35mm to replace their 22mm f2. I guess you could go with the 24-50mm to shave 200g, but that's a really boring lens the OP prob doesn't want.

FF is heavier. Even light FF is heavier since we are comparing to some of the lighter APS-C out there. And this is pretty slow aperture FF, so not much advantage in terms of noise vs current kit. It's not really going to be an upgrade unless they want to shoot wildlife with the 100-400.

Click to expand...

MAC said:

tkbslc said:

MAC said:

Canon EOS R8 Specifications (the-digital-picture.com)

Instead, are you open to selling about everything and spending $1499 and changing to an R8 FF body weighing CIPA Weight16.3 oz (461g) ???

Click to expand...

Would be hard to hit all OPs boxes with the weight requirements.

R8 or Rp is about 460g

16mm f2.8 165g

24-105 STM 395g

100-400 635g

50mm f1.8 160g

Already up to 1800g and we didn't even get a 35mm to replace their 22mm f2. I guess you could go with the 24-50mm to shave 200g, but that's a really boring lens the OP prob doesn't want.

FF is heavier. Even light FF is heavier since we are comparing to some of the lighter APS-C out there. And this is pretty slow aperture FF, so not much advantage in terms of noise vs current kit. It's not really going to be an upgrade unless they want to shoot wildlife with the 100-400.

Click to expand...

for me, the great framework to build upon and great upgrade for only 1850 g

R8 460 g

RF 24-105 F4L IS 695 g

RF 70-200 F4L IS 695 g

Two Pop Can Lenses + body with great IQ

focusing -3.4 EV @F4 in moonlight with dxo PL NR = 1850 g

Click to expand...