Why Rechargeable Batteries Not Recommended For Triggers?

Batdude · Feb 27, 2023

By accident saw what the Flashpoint manual for my R2 Pro II says, to use regular AA Alkaline batteries for best performance. That's funny because I just happen to see the battery power indicator and the damn batteries were showing only two bars. They were freshly recharged two days ago and I barely put them in the trigger today. Was not using them a lot I only fired up the evolv 200 Pro a handful of times, but what I found VERY interesting is that I did noticed that the power indicator NEVER showed full bars.

As of now, the trigger shows only one bar. That's pretty sad.

I confess that I don't have the most expensive AA rechargeable batteries, I have these:

Loading…

www.amazon.com

Either way, what's the technical reason as to why AA rechargeable batteries perform this bad and why they are not recommended? No wonder people tend to have misfire issues.

I'm really really glad I purchased the Flashpoint evolv 200 Pro and I'm no longer going to have to deal with this battery nonsense. Is a huge relief. Hopefully all these Flashpoint setup I just purchased won't disappoint and will work out fine.

River Photography · Feb 27, 2023

i have been using rechargeable batteries in everything for 20 years without a problem. most electronics runs on 5 volts anyway. ikea batteries are great .

Rp

Off The Mark · Feb 27, 2023

Batdude said:
Either way, what's the technical reason as to why AA rechargeable batteries perform this bad and why they are not recommended? No wonder people tend to have misfire issues.

Firstly, big disclaimer: I am not an engineer.

As far as i understand it, NiMH batteries (the most common type of rechargable AA and AAA batteries), have an actual lower voltage than alkaline or lithium batteries.

Also, NiMH batteries, unless designed to be low self-discharge (LSD) batteries, will lose the amount of current in the batteries just by sitting around. Alkaline batteries by default are all low self-discharge.

Batteries Plus, a retailer of specialized (and general) batteries here in the US, writes this about alkaline batteries on their blog:

Alkaline batteries are a much better choice for low drain devices that draw small amounts of power over a longer period of time. This is because alkalines start with a slightly higher voltage that decreases faster than rechargeable batteries. An alkaline battery will die much faster at the end of its life, while a rechargeable battery will hang on at a lower voltage for longer, resulting in performance issues such as dimming lights or a clock that can't keep time. Examples of low drain applications include clocks, smoke alarms, portable lights and thermometers.

Alkaline batteries are also a much better fit for a home emergency kit. There are a couple of reasons for this. First off, if the power goes out, it's impossible to charge a rechargeable battery. Second, alkaline batteries tend to have much longer shelf lives than rechargeable options, with top brands guaranteed to hold a charge for as long as ten years.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/blog/...xt=There are a couple of,as long as ten years

There are some LSD NiMH batteries available. I have had good success with Tenergy Centura batteries, for example. Now, I mostly use Eneloops now though. There is a great deal (in the USA, at least) for Four AA Eneloops and a charger for $25

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-3MCCA8BA-eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable/dp/B00JHKSN5I

As to why the battery level indicator says the battery level is low, it could have to do with your charger. A good charger (with a good battery) will charge an AA battery to a high enough capacity that it will have slightly MORE than 1.5 volts. But a mediocre battery on a mediocre charger might not charge the battery to its fully stated capacity, and thus might produce a lot closer to, say, 1.3 volts or so.

I would agree with River Photographry that for most uses there is nothing wrong with using rechargeable NiMH batteries, and they are MUCH friendlier to the environment compated to throwing out alkaline batteries.

Anyway, my suggestions is to use regargeable batteries for your transmitter(s) and leave a four-pack of Alkaline batteries in your camera bag (or in the glove comparment of your car, where you will also be keeping spare SD cards), which if they are a name brand, could last a long time. BTW: It is not likely that the rechargeable batteries will fail you. Instead, it is more likely that you will leave the batteries in the charger back at home and won't realize it until you show up at the photo shoot.

--
What Middle School Is Really Like:

RDKirk · Feb 27, 2023

Batdude said:
By accident saw what the Flashpoint manual for my R2 Pro II says, to use regular AA Alkaline batteries for best performance. That's funny because I just happen to see the battery power indicator and the damn batteries were showing only two bars. They were freshly recharged two days ago and I barely put them in the trigger today. Was not using them a lot I only fired up the evolv 200 Pro a handful of times, but what I found VERY interesting is that I did noticed that the power indicator NEVER showed full bars.

As of now, the trigger shows only one bar. That's pretty sad.

I confess that I don't have the most expensive AA rechargeable batteries, I have these:

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...0x,+standard+capacity+2000+mah,aps,193&sr=8-2

Either way, what's the technical reason as to why AA rechargeable batteries perform this bad and why they are not recommended? No wonder people tend to have misfire issues.

I'm really really glad I purchased the Flashpoint evolv 200 Pro and I'm no longer going to have to deal with this battery nonsense. Is a huge relief. Hopefully all these Flashpoint setup I just purchased won't disappoint and will work out fine.

The instructions tell you explicitly the problem with rechargeable batteries:

"The [Battery Indication] icon does not show accurate levels for Ni-MH batteries as they tend to deliver less than optimal voltage and display false voltage readings."

That's the problem: The indicator reads inaccurately with Ni-Mh batteries. What happens is that Ni-Mh batteries drop down to 1.2 volts very quickly even though they remain at that voltage for quite a long while. Fresh Ni-Mh batteries do not cause misfires. They just don't show correct level readings. If you make sure to put freshly recharged batteries in the unit every time you use it so that you have no worry about the charge level, you won't have a problem with them.

Personally, though, I use non-rechargeable lithium batteries. They last a long, long time and I don't have to worry about leaking.

Batdude · Feb 27, 2023

RDKirk said:
Batdude said:

By accident saw what the Flashpoint manual for my R2 Pro II says, to use regular AA Alkaline batteries for best performance. That's funny because I just happen to see the battery power indicator and the damn batteries were showing only two bars. They were freshly recharged two days ago and I barely put them in the trigger today. Was not using them a lot I only fired up the evolv 200 Pro a handful of times, but what I found VERY interesting is that I did noticed that the power indicator NEVER showed full bars.

As of now, the trigger shows only one bar. That's pretty sad.

I confess that I don't have the most expensive AA rechargeable batteries, I have these:

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...0x,+standard+capacity+2000+mah,aps,193&sr=8-2

Either way, what's the technical reason as to why AA rechargeable batteries perform this bad and why they are not recommended? No wonder people tend to have misfire issues.

I'm really really glad I purchased the Flashpoint evolv 200 Pro and I'm no longer going to have to deal with this battery nonsense. Is a huge relief. Hopefully all these Flashpoint setup I just purchased won't disappoint and will work out fine.

Click to expand...

The instructions tell you explicitly the problem with rechargeable batteries:

"The [Battery Indication] icon does not show accurate levels for Ni-MH batteries as they tend to deliver less than optimal voltage and display false voltage readings."

That's the problem: The indicator reads inaccurately with Ni-Mh batteries. What happens is that Ni-Mh batteries drop down to 1.2 volts very quickly even though they remain at that voltage for quite a long while. Fresh Ni-Mh batteries do not cause misfires. They just don't show correct level readings. If you make sure to put freshly recharged batteries in the unit every time you use it so that you have no worry about the charge level, you won't have a problem with them.

Personally, though, I use non-rechargeable lithium batteries. They last a long, long time and I don't have to worry about leaking.

Got a link to a specific type that you like and find reliable?

Thanks.

RDKirk said:
--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

Batdude · Feb 27, 2023

Off The Mark said:
Batdude said:

Either way, what's the technical reason as to why AA rechargeable batteries perform this bad and why they are not recommended? No wonder people tend to have misfire issues.

Click to expand...

Firstly, big disclaimer: I am not an engineer.

As far as i understand it, NiMH batteries (the most common type of rechargable AA and AAA batteries), have an actual lower voltage than alkaline or lithium batteries.

Also, NiMH batteries, unless designed to be low self-discharge (LSD) batteries, will lose the amount of current in the batteries just by sitting around. Alkaline batteries by default are all low self-discharge.

Batteries Plus, a retailer of specialized (and general) batteries here in the US, writes this about alkaline batteries on their blog:

Alkaline batteries are a much better choice for low drain devices that draw small amounts of power over a longer period of time. This is because alkalines start with a slightly higher voltage that decreases faster than rechargeable batteries. An alkaline battery will die much faster at the end of its life, while a rechargeable battery will hang on at a lower voltage for longer, resulting in performance issues such as dimming lights or a clock that can't keep time. Examples of low drain applications include clocks, smoke alarms, portable lights and thermometers.

Alkaline batteries are also a much better fit for a home emergency kit. There are a couple of reasons for this. First off, if the power goes out, it's impossible to charge a rechargeable battery. Second, alkaline batteries tend to have much longer shelf lives than rechargeable options, with top brands guaranteed to hold a charge for as long as ten years.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/blog/...xt=There are a couple of,as long as ten years

There are some LSD NiMH batteries available. I have had good success with Tenergy Centura batteries, for example. Now, I mostly use Eneloops now though. There is a great deal (in the USA, at least) for Four AA Eneloops and a charger for $25

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-3MCCA8BA-eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable/dp/B00JHKSN5I

As to why the battery level indicator says the battery level is low, it could have to do with your charger. A good charger (with a good battery) will charge an AA battery to a high enough capacity that it will have slightly MORE than 1.5 volts. But a mediocre battery on a mediocre charger might not charge the battery to its fully stated capacity, and thus might produce a lot closer to, say, 1.3 volts or so.

I would agree with River Photographry that for most uses there is nothing wrong with using rechargeable NiMH batteries, and they are MUCH friendlier to the environment compated to throwing out alkaline batteries.

Anyway, my suggestions is to use regargeable batteries for your transmitter(s) and leave a four-pack of Alkaline batteries in your camera bag (or in the glove comparment of your car, where you will also be keeping spare SD cards), which if they are a name brand, could last a long time. BTW: It is not likely that the rechargeable batteries will fail you. Instead, it is more likely that you will leave the batteries in the charger back at home and won't realize it until you show up at the photo shoot.

Ellis Vener · Feb 28, 2023

Batdude said:
RDKirk said:

Personally, though, I use non-rechargeable lithium batteries. They last a long, long time and I don't have to worry about leaking.

Click to expand...

Got a link to a specific type that you like and find reliable?

Thanks.

I like the Everready Titanium AA and AAA batteries for my loiw draw devices like my Flashpoint R2 Pro triggers, Sekonic L-758dr meter and PocketWizard Plus III transceivers

Ed Shapiro · Feb 28, 2023

Batteries of different types, rechargeability or not, and/or chemical makeup regardless of the same physical size and voltage specifications can have different performance characteristics. There may be differences in amperage, amper/hour capacity, and actual voltage under load as well as charging procedures. The manufacturers of triggers, various controllers, and other flash accessories are aware of this and make exact battery type recommendations for their equipment.

I have heavy-duty 12-Volt recahrgabe batteries in my portable strobes all of which hold a proper charge if well maintained. In smaller Speedlights and my Pocket Wizard triggers, I prefer disposable, high-quality, alkaline batteries. Through testing, I find that the dobubl A rechargeables output is 1.2 Volts rather that 1.5 under load. That does no sound lot much but it seems to make a difference in reliability and usage times before a recharge becomes necessary.

Missfire can be problematic in the studio and especially in locations. In industrial location, I oftentimes have to install lights on catwalks, elevation devices, and other palce that become inconvenient to hurriedly access if a receiver conks out. The old "Copper Tops" and Energizers, never let me down. I put in fresh batter before each shoot and then use the half-spent batteries at home in my TV remotes n things like that.

Reading through the posts on this forum, I notice a lot of triggering issues due to battery failure, incompatibility between various camera systems and controllers, and fokls havg a hell of a time getting someof these newfangled gadgets to work. Someof these command systems and controllers cause more distraction and consume more time during shoots than having to set up exposures and ratios manually. In my studio, the Pocket Wizards work fine and some additional lighs work well on their optical slaves. On location, especially where the lights are lat longer distances, the OLD Pocket-Wizards never fail. Some precautions I advise is to keep the battery compartment clean and make certain the contact is at the proper tension and always USE THE RECOMMENDED BATTERY TYPES! If you use rechargeables, make sure you are using he dedicated chargers and mainatan a regular recharg schedule. Be aware of the degreeof residual charge the bateri should store when not in use. Never leave the batteries in your devices during long term dormant storage.

Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

John Vickers · Mar 1, 2023

Batdude said:
Why Rechargeable Batteries Not Recommended For Triggers?

Batdude said:
Either way, what's the technical reason as to why AA rechargeable batteries perform this bad and why they are not recommended?

Because this bit of Godox design is rubbish. Most (not all) of the problem is the power indicator, rather than the functionality.

A design that requires alkaline cells is wasting roughly half the capacity of alkaline cells.

Any device designed to use the full capacity of alkaline cells will work quite happily with NiMH cells, until the NiMH cells are exhausted.

I wrote about this before: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66793672

RDKirk · Mar 1, 2023

Batdude said:
Got a link to a specific type that you like and find reliable?

Batdude said:
Thanks.

Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA

Ellis Vener · Mar 1, 2023

That’s also what I use. I switched to them several years ago after leaking Duracell AA’s killed a Nikon F5.

RL Photography · Mar 1, 2023

Another recommendation for the Energizer Lithium. I use them in both my Godox and PocketWizard triggers.

Jessyc · Mar 2, 2023

John Vickers said:
Because this bit of Godox design is rubbish. Most (not all) of the problem is the power indicator, rather than the functionality.

A design that requires alkaline cells is wasting roughly half the capacity of alkaline cells.

The only reason I can think of for the rubbish battery indicator design is low quality alkaline batteries may only be able to supply the peak current required for the radio transmission burst when fairly fresh so the battery indicator tells you to change alkalines when they are about half used.

NiMH batteries are much better at providing high currents. That is what Godox should have recommended and designed the battery indicator for.

The indicator (observed on an XPro) isn't great for lithium primary batteries either because it will show 3 bars for about the first 80% of the battery capacity.

For NiMH batteries it will show no bars between about 30 and 90% of used battery capacity and blink for about the last 10%.

RDKirk · Mar 2, 2023

Jessyc said:
John Vickers said:

Because this bit of Godox design is rubbish. Most (not all) of the problem is the power indicator, rather than the functionality.

A design that requires alkaline cells is wasting roughly half the capacity of alkaline cells.

Click to expand...

The only reason I can think of for the rubbish battery indicator design is low quality alkaline batteries may only be able to supply the peak current required for the radio transmission burst when fairly fresh so the battery indicator tells you to change alkalines when they are about half used.

NiMH batteries are much better at providing high currents. That is what Godox should have recommended and designed the battery indicator for.

The indicator (observed on an XPro) isn't great for lithium primary batteries either because it will show 3 bars for about the first 80% of the battery capacity.

For NiMH batteries it will show no bars between about 30 and 90% of used battery capacity and blink for about the last 10%.

Most of the world, including most of the US, uses alkalines, not NiMH or lithium, so it would not have made sense for Godox to have designed the unit for anything except alkalines, unless they chose to have some kind of manual switching system (which I've seen before)...but that would have increased the price.

John Vickers · Mar 3, 2023

RDKirk said:
Jessyc said:

John Vickers said:

Because this bit of Godox design is rubbish. Most (not all) of the problem is the power indicator, rather than the functionality.

A design that requires alkaline cells is wasting roughly half the capacity of alkaline cells.

Click to expand...

The only reason I can think of for the rubbish battery indicator design is low quality alkaline batteries may only be able to supply the peak current required for the radio transmission burst when fairly fresh so the battery indicator tells you to change alkalines when they are about half used.

NiMH batteries are much better at providing high currents. That is what Godox should have recommended and designed the battery indicator for.

The indicator (observed on an XPro) isn't great for lithium primary batteries either because it will show 3 bars for about the first 80% of the battery capacity.

For NiMH batteries it will show no bars between about 30 and 90% of used battery capacity and blink for about the last 10%.

Click to expand...

Most of the world, including most of the US, uses alkalines, not NiMH or lithium, so it would not have made sense for Godox to have designed the unit for anything except alkalines, unless they chose to have some kind of manual switching system (which I've seen before)...but that would have increased the price.

My point is that if a gadget is designed to use - say - two thirds to three quarters of the capacity of *alkaline* cells, it will work fine with NiMH cells, and make use of 90%-100% of the capacity of NiMH cells. (Assuming we are not close to loads where battery life is limited by self-discharge).

In an "Alkaline World", you don't want your gadgets to stop working when the batteries are only half used, right?

Jessyc · Mar 3, 2023

RDKirk said:
Most of the world, including most of the US, uses alkalines, not NiMH or lithium, so it would not have made sense for Godox to have designed the unit for anything except alkalines,

On top of working better in many applications Ni-MH batteries are around 1/50th the cost of alkalines, less prone to leaking, and much more environmentally friendly.

Having many things powered by AA and AAA batteries having a bunch of Ni-MH batteries and a charger for me is a no-brainer. If your only usage is 2 AAs in a Godox trigger it would take a while to recoup the investment, having to throw away half used alkalines does help with that lol.

Godox have no problem recommending Ni-MH batteries for their TT series speedlights.

RDKirk · Mar 3, 2023

John Vickers said:
My point is that if a gadget is designed to use - say - two thirds to three quarters of the capacity of *alkaline* cells, it will work fine with NiMH cells, and make use of 90%-100% of the capacity of NiMH cells. (Assuming we are not close to loads where battery life is limited by self-discharge).

Has it actually been demonstrated that's how this device was designed and works?

John Vickers · Mar 3, 2023

RDKirk said:
RDKirk said:

[...]

Click to expand...

Most of the world, including most of the US, uses alkalines, not NiMH or lithium, so it would not have made sense for Godox to have designed the unit for anything except alkalines, unless they chose to have some kind of manual switching system (which I've seen before)...but that would have increased the price.

Godox make a transmitter powered by 2 AA cells, and NiMH cells are recommended by Godox for it.

It's a TT350.

So Godox can design a transmitter that works fine with 2 NiMH cells.

The usability problem *could* be as simple as Godox saving 10¢ on the XPro Bill Of Materials by using a silicon diode rather than a low-reverse-voltage shottky diode to protect against reverse battery insertion.

The battery life indicator is never going to be accurate.

Jessyc · Mar 3, 2023

RDKirk said:
Has it actually been demonstrated that's how this device was designed and works?

My Xpro manual states:

"Blinking < 2.5V The battery level is going
to be used out immediately (please
replace new batteries, as low power
leads to no flash or flash missing in
case of long distance)."

I measured the 'blinking' threshold of an XPro at 2.45V

795b62afe4534966a2b613a87c001796.jpg.png

Note at 1.25v per cell about half the area under the curve remains.

I have also measured the voltage where an XPro ceases to be fully functional and it was 1.2v (1.2v total, 0.6v per cell), however, it would not turn on with less than 1.85v.

John Vickers · Mar 3, 2023

Jessyc said:
RDKirk said:

Has it actually been demonstrated that's how this device was designed and works?

Click to expand...

My Xpro manual states:

"Blinking < 2.5V The battery level is going
to be used out immediately (please
replace new batteries, as low power
leads to no flash or flash missing in
case of long distance)."

I measured the 'blinking' threshold of an XPro at 2.45V

Note at 1.25v per cell about half the area under the curve remains.

I have also measured the voltage where an XPro ceases to be fully functional and it was 1.2v (1.2v total, 0.6v per cell), however, it would not turn on with less than 1.85v.

Excellent!

So you're powering the XPro off a variable PSU, and the XPro will start up at >= 1.85V, and can trigger flashes 10m away down to 1.2V once it has booted up?

If so, that means the XPro power supply is fine, it's just the battery level indicator that doesn't work.

I don't have an XPro, though I'd been thinking about getting an XPro ii. If only to satisfy my technical curiosity. I have a few Godox speedlights, and they are good enough controllers for me.

You seem to have answered the question.

Why Rechargeable Batteries Not Recommended For Triggers?

Veteran Member

River Photography

Guest

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts