Topaz PhotoAI update failure.

zerored said:

The concept that AI does it all for me is not appealing. For me part of the joy of digital photography is manually processing images.

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Noise reduction and sharpening are almost never manual operations; users can only control the degree and scope of their application, which remains true to at least some extent with Photo AI.

Do you have a satisfactory way of doing truly 'manual' face recovery and general image improvement similar to this ... ?


Before


After Photo AI

If so, what is it that you do?

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PLEASE NOTE: The system causes delays in the timing of my posts and prevents me from replying to private messages.

I do landscapes not people pictures. And I am not interested in getting into some debate (what is manual and what is not manual) about the opinion I expressed. I am not a gearhead nor a techie (no disrespect intended). I shoot pictures then enjoy processing them. Thank you.

Redcrown said:

Doing routine cleanup, I found a file named "516992.msi" in the C:\Windows\Installer folder which was suspiciously the same size as a Topaz PhotoAI installer (huge 729,388 KB). And the Properties of that file say it is a "Topaz Photo AI Installer".

Just more junk left behind by Topaz.

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Hi Redcrown, you may consider this as by design of "Windows Installer". Unfortuantely most if not all Windows Installer apps need to place the "MSI" file inside C:\Windows\Installer. Topaz is just following this rule.

Pov2 and SecondTimeAround have challenged my knowledge of Windows, and Annie NG claims "Windows Installer apps need to place the "MSI" file inside C:\Windows\Installer". So I went back to the drawing board. Unfortunately my Google searching tells me a lot about what Microsoft Software Installer (MSI) is, but I can't find any info about how it works. If anybody can share links to info about what the MSI system requires 3rd party developers to do, please share.

My current systems is fairly new Windows 11 desktop, built from scratch about 8 months ago, with all software installed from scratch. I have 44 3rd party apps installed, but apparently all of them use the *.exe form of installer. I can't find a 3rd party msi file anywhere. Even Topaz Sharpen, Denoise, and Gigipixel use the exe form installers. Apparently PhotoAI is the first and only Topaz product to use MSI.

My C:\Windows\Installer folder shows 33 *.msi files, all with meaningless names, but all show the author as Microsoft. I have another 24 msi files, also from Microsoft, but in various sub-folders of the C:\ProgramData root.

So apparently the Microsoft MSI system is little used and little understood. Again, my last update of PhotoAI to version 1.1.8 was done successfully by downloading the msi file to a private download folder and executing it from there. It was not copied to the C:\Windows\Installer folder, and no trace of it was found copied anywhere after the install. Time will tell when the next update arrives.

It doesn't matter if the installer is .exe or .msi. I just found an .msi file with a meaningless name with author DxO and subject DxO Photolab 6 and it's 754 MB. The PhotoLab installer was definitely .exe. I see a few .msi's from Topaz Labs LLC and all kinds of authors (Serif, Adobe etc.) for programs installed on my PC. Maybe you deleted yours?

Many EXE files are simply self-extracting files that then run another installer. I took a quick look at the registry in my Windows 11 server and nearly every program (except for my nVidia driver / utilities) use MSIEXEC, even if they were originally installed from an EXE.

Redcrown said:

My Topaz PhotoAI update on Windows regularly fails. In an email dialogue with Topaz support I finally found out why.

When PhotoAI "updates", it first uninstalls the old version. Unlike other Topaz software and unlike all other software I know of, PhotoAI uses the original installer to uninstall. During the initial install, it copies the installer (Topaz PhotoAI x-x-x.msi) to the users TEMP folder. That's right, PhotoAI uses a Windows "temp" folder to store a file it will need weeks or months from now.

Topaz DenoiseAI, SharpenAI, GigapixelAI, and all older Topaz products don't do this foolishness. They all follow industry standards and put an "uninstall.exe" file in the Windows "Program Files" folder for each product.

My system backup routine deletes all Windows temp data before running, to avoid cluttering backups with useless data. Thus, the Topaz installer (uninstaller) hidden there was wiped out. So, any future update failed because it could not uninstall the old version. The initial solution was to re-download the installer for the old version, run it and do a "repair". That restored the msi installer in the temp folder, so now the update could find it.

Topaz = creativity at a new and dangerous level!

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Well I am struggling with this very problem today unfortunately. I am an IT person and for the life of me I cannot get Photo AI to update? It keeps giving me this error "Topaz Photo AI setup wizard ended prematurely because of an error." And then quits? I have no way to contact Topaz that I have found but haven't really tried yet. I did post something on the forum. Very discouraging. I was able to update without issue on my laptop which is the other machine I have it installed on.

Here is what worked for me: First, do not try to update from within the software. Instead, go to the Topaz Software download page and download the installer for your CURRENT version. Run that. It should say it found something wrong and offer to do a "repair". Do that repair. Next, download the current version installer and run it. Now that the old version is "repaired" the update should work.

I think the repair step puts the old MSI files back where they need to be for the update to work.

Redcrown said:

Here is what worked for me: First, do not try to update from within the software. Instead, go to the Topaz Software download page and download the installer for your CURRENT version. Run that. It should say it found something wrong and offer to do a "repair". Do that repair. Next, download the current version installer and run it. Now that the old version is "repaired" the update should work.

I think the repair step puts the old MSI files back where they need to be for the update to work.

Click to expand...

Amazing that you figured that out. You would think that Topaz would make it a whole lot easier for us to get it done.

Redcrown said:

Here is what worked for me: First, do not try to update from within the software. Instead, go to the Topaz Software download page and download the installer for your CURRENT version. Run that. It should say it found something wrong and offer to do a "repair". Do that repair. Next, download the current version installer and run it. Now that the old version is "repaired" the update should work.

I think the repair step puts the old MSI files back where they need to be for the update to work.

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What do you think may be the cause?

I've never had an error updating any of Tapz suites software.

Interested in the reason.

Ernie Misner said:

Redcrown said:

Here is what worked for me: First, do not try to update from within the software. Instead, go to the Topaz Software download page and download the installer for your CURRENT version. Run that. It should say it found something wrong and offer to do a "repair". Do that repair. Next, download the current version installer and run it. Now that the old version is "repaired" the update should work.

I think the repair step puts the old MSI files back where they need to be for the update to work.

Click to expand...

Amazing that you figured that out. You would think that Topaz would make it a whole lot easier for us to get it done.

Click to expand...

I regularly update Photo AI (almost every week), and have never had a problem. It's easy, fairly quick, and doesn't go wrong. It appears that the problem comes if you clean up temp files.

Topaz PhotoAI uses the Microsoft "MSI" system to install itself. No other Topaz product does that. When you download the PhotoAI "MSI" file and run it, Microsoft makes 2 copies in "temporary" folders. One of those copies is even renamed with a meaningless numeric to hide it. I have no idea why they do this, but you end up with 2+ gigabytes added to your system disk and backups. And the files in the temporary folders are definitely NOT temporary.

People who pay little or no attention to their system, do no fine tuning or performance enhancements, and probably never backup the OS will not notice this disk bloat. Ignorance is bliss.

The rest of us home in on those huge files, say "W*T*F", and delete them. Later, we get punished because it turns out that the uninstall code for the software is embedded in that installation package. With Topaz, when you do an update they don't patch their code. Instead they do a complete uninstall and a fresh install of the new version. If those huge, old install files are gone, the uninstall fails - with a cryptic error message that gives no clue.

I don't know how old the Microsoft MSI system is, but I suspect it is fairly new. I have 47 non-Microsoft software programs installed on my Windows 11 system, but only 2 of those use the Microsoft MSI system to install themselves - Topaz Photo SI and TurboTax 2022. I've used TurboTax for years and this is the first time they used MSI to install. All the other programs leave behind a small uninstall program in a safe non-temp place for when needed.

I'm an old, long retired programmer, system analyst, software development manager. If I had caught my coders doing something this sloppy and inefficient I would have hung them from the yardarm (retired naval officer too).

I am not going to raise an objection to you, just really wondering...

As I already wrote, I always delete Topaz PhotoAI's MSI (one single for me) file from my temp folder instantly after update. And, I have never encountered any error at next updating Topaz.
Today, I updated Topaz PhotoAI from 1.2.3 to 1.2.4 without previous MSI file in the temp folder, and no error occurred during update.

What is different between you and I...?

Redcrown said:

Topaz PhotoAI uses the Microsoft "MSI" system to install itself. No other Topaz product does that. When you download the PhotoAI "MSI" file and run it, Microsoft makes 2 copies in "temporary" folders. One of those copies is even renamed with a meaningless numeric to hide it. I have no idea why they do this, but you end up with 2+ gigabytes added to your system disk and backups. And the files in the temporary folders are definitely NOT temporary.

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Okay understood thanks.

Redcrown said:

People who pay little or no attention to their system, do no fine tuning or performance enhancements, and probably never backup the OS will not notice this disk bloat. Ignorance is bliss.

Click to expand...

We have to back up our systems, do performance checks as all the laptops I control as a group to ensure they are upto date and meet a quality standard.

Redcrown said:

The rest of us home in on those huge files, say "W*T*F", and delete them. Later, we get punished because it turns out that the uninstall code for the software is embedded in that installation package. With Topaz, when you do an update they don't patch their code. Instead they do a complete uninstall and a fresh install of the new version. If those huge, old install files are gone, the uninstall fails - with a cryptic error message that gives no clue.

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Okay. I've not had a need to go and delete any of the Topaz Photo/Noise/Gigapixel/Sharpen/Video files. This is the likely root of why we haven't encountered issues.

Redcrown said:

I don't know how old the Microsoft MSI system is, but I suspect it is fairly new.

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A good 10 years or so I think.

Redcrown said:

I have 47 non-Microsoft software programs installed on my Windows 11 system, but only 2 of those use the Microsoft MSI system to install themselves - Topaz Photo SI and TurboTax 2022. I've used TurboTax for years and this is the first time they used MSI to install. All the other programs leave behind a small uninstall program in a safe non-temp place for when needed.

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Okay.

Redcrown said:

I'm an old, long retired programmer, system analyst, software development manager. If I had caught my coders doing something this sloppy and inefficient I would have hung them from the yardarm (retired naval officer too).

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Well we don't have the opportunity to hang the creators of the Topaz products but it sounds like the way forward is to let it install and update in the way it was designed to and not to go in and make manual changes.

Digital Nigel said:

Ernie Misner said:

Redcrown said:

Here is what worked for me: First, do not try to update from within the software. Instead, go to the Topaz Software download page and download the installer for your CURRENT version. Run that. It should say it found something wrong and offer to do a "repair". Do that repair. Next, download the current version installer and run it. Now that the old version is "repaired" the update should work.

I think the repair step puts the old MSI files back where they need to be for the update to work.

Click to expand...

Amazing that you figured that out. You would think that Topaz would make it a whole lot easier for us to get it done.

Click to expand...

I regularly update Photo AI (almost every week), and have never had a problem. It's easy, fairly quick, and doesn't go wrong. It appears that the problem comes if you clean up temp files.

Click to expand...

The annual date on your subscription didn't run out did it? I got it free because of all the others I owned, then realized it was only free for a year (updates that is).

Ernie Misner said:

Digital Nigel said:

Ernie Misner said:

Redcrown said:

Here is what worked for me: First, do not try to update from within the software. Instead, go to the Topaz Software download page and download the installer for your CURRENT version. Run that. It should say it found something wrong and offer to do a "repair". Do that repair. Next, download the current version installer and run it. Now that the old version is "repaired" the update should work.

I think the repair step puts the old MSI files back where they need to be for the update to work.

Click to expand...

Amazing that you figured that out. You would think that Topaz would make it a whole lot easier for us to get it done.

Click to expand...

I regularly update Photo AI (almost every week), and have never had a problem. It's easy, fairly quick, and doesn't go wrong. It appears that the problem comes if you clean up temp files.

Click to expand...

The annual date on your subscription didn't run out did it? I got it free because of all the others I owned, then realized it was only free for a year (updates that is).

Click to expand...

Yes, like all the Topaz AI apps.

Not directly related to your issues but I've found that very few programs ever completely clean up after using their uninstaller. The registry in particular is often littered with their debris. I use Revo Uninstaller (free version) which finds all the remnants after the uninstaller has done its job and then one can chose to delete these or not. I always do and after many years have never had an issue as a result,.

YMMV

Redcrown said:

My Topaz PhotoAI update on Windows regularly fails. In an email dialogue with Topaz support I finally found out why.

When PhotoAI "updates", it first uninstalls the old version. Unlike other Topaz software and unlike all other software I know of, PhotoAI uses the original installer to uninstall. During the initial install, it copies the installer (Topaz PhotoAI x-x-x.msi) to the users TEMP folder. That's right, PhotoAI uses a Windows "temp" folder to store a file it will need weeks or months from now.

Topaz DenoiseAI, SharpenAI, GigapixelAI, and all older Topaz products don't do this foolishness. They all follow industry standards and put an "uninstall.exe" file in the Windows "Program Files" folder for each product.

My system backup routine deletes all Windows temp data before running, to avoid cluttering backups with useless data. Thus, the Topaz installer (uninstaller) hidden there was wiped out. So, any future update failed because it could not uninstall the old version. The initial solution was to re-download the installer for the old version, run it and do a "repair". That restored the msi installer in the temp folder, so now the update could find it.

Topaz = creativity at a new and dangerous level!

Click to expand...

No problems here...all installers install like they should.

stormyboy said:

Redcrown said:

Topaz knows all about it. And I refuse to accommodate stupidity or imcompetance.

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Yet you give a pass to incorrect spelling?

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Looks like a typo to me.....

mak_kawa said:

I am not going to raise an objection to you, just really wondering...

As I already wrote, I always delete Topaz PhotoAI's MSI (one single for me) file from my temp folder instantly after update. And, I have never encountered any error at next updating Topaz.
Today, I updated Topaz PhotoAI from 1.2.3 to 1.2.4 without previous MSI file in the temp folder, and no error occurred during update.

What is different between you and I...?

Click to expand...

The OP also deleted the Topaz *.msi from C:\Windows\Installer, which is a normally hidden system folder. Hence the issues.
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66806284