Are you satisfied with your denoise software?

I am posing this question to those of you who have added denoise software to your workflow outside of Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One etc. The ones that come to mind are the big three 1) Topaz Denoise AI, DXO Pure Raw 2 and On1 No Noise AI. I have demo-ed all three and find the results can be somewhat disappointing in some cases and just OK in others. It seems to remove noise at the expense of smearing or blurring detail.

I am mainly asking this question to those who print at least 11 x 14 or A3. Are you happy you purchased?

Thanks for any constructive info....

third son said:

I am posing this question to those of you who have added denoise software to your workflow outside of Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One etc. The ones that come to mind are the big three 1) Topaz Denoise AI, DXO Pure Raw 2 and On1 No Noise AI. I have demo-ed all three and find the results can be somewhat disappointing in some cases and just OK in others. It seems to remove noise at the expense of smearing or blurring detail.

I am mainly asking this question to those who print at least 11 x 14 or A3. Are you happy you purchased?

Thanks for any constructive info....

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It is my understanding that almost by definition, the process of removing noise softens or reduces image sharpness.

What I am about to say might not be technically correct. But here is the way I think about it.

The process of sharpening an image accentuates the differentiation between pixels at the boundary of two different things. For example, the pixels right at the intersection of the edge of a portrait subject's cheek and the background that is represented by the next adjacent pixel.

Noise stands out because it is different than the adjacent non-noisy pixels. In noise reduction, you try to eliminate or blur the difference between the noise and the adjacent pixels. In effect you are doing the opposite of sharpening. So you also get the effect of unsharpening in areas where you don't necessarily want it.

So it is a trade-off or balancing act. The more dramatically you try to smooth things out to eliminate the noise the smoother (or less crisp) the whole image becomes.

Because of this trade-off, I try to reduce noise but not eliminate it entirely, lest I end up with a soft image. With the objective of reducing noise but not necessarily eliminating it completely, I am pleased with the results I get from Topaz

I find Topaz Denoise very good. Perhaps you should detail what you find unsatisfactory in the Apps you mention?

Keit ll said:

I find Topaz Denoise very good. Perhaps you should detail what you find unsatisfactory in the Apps you mention?

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Thanks for your reply. I would like to read what others have to say first before getting into the weeds with my observations.

third son said:

... the results can be somewhat disappointing in some cases and just OK in others.

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Yes. And they can also be really terrible or quite satisfying, depending on the content of the original, the noise in the original, user adjustments to the software, and user expectations.

third son said:

It seems to remove noise at the expense of smearing or blurring detail.

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I don't see that in my use of current NR software, which endeavors to retain detail along with removing noise. More often, the issue for me becomes distortion, which changes the original detail into something else.

third son said:

I am mainly asking this question to those who print at least 11 x 14 or A3. Are you happy you purchased?

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I rarely ever print anything ... but I'm happy enough that I have ON1 NoNoise AI, Topaz Photo AI, and DxO Photolab with DeepPRIME because one of those tools almost always does the job well enough to be worthwhile to me.

third son said:

It seems to remove noise at the expense of smearing or blurring detail.

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I use the older Topaz Denoise 5 as a plugin within PS.

Have an action that runs it.

Opens the image layer, applys a strong denoise setting, sends image layer back to PS and adds a black layer mask.

Then I selectively paint in the amount of noise reduction to area's I choose.

No effects on sharpening.

When I print I usually print 16x20. I am very pleased with Topaz Labs Denoise. However, I have had to make a few changes to my workflow to get optimal response and not get the softening/ smearing of details.

I use Denoise as a Lightroom plugin and I have learned to export it with an absolute minimum of processing. I now only set the camera profile, color balance, white and black points, set the Lightroom sharpening to 0 and export without any cropping.

Once in Denoise I compare the various models of sharpening and choose. I also allow Denoise to apply the sharpening and noise removal automatically and adjust from there. I often find myself reducing the noise and sharpening values by at least 50%.

Yes, I'm happy with DxO PhotoLab v6.

Moderately happy with Topaz Denoise AI, but I would only use it on images that I can't process using DeepPRIME (i.e. non-raw images).

Lan said:

Yes, I'm happy with DxO PhotoLab v6.

Moderately happy with Topaz Denoise AI, but I would only use it on images that I can't process using DeepPRIME (i.e. non-raw images).

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+1

Digital Nigel said:

Lan said:

Yes, I'm happy with DxO PhotoLab v6.

Moderately happy with Topaz Denoise AI, but I would only use it on images that I can't process using DeepPRIME (i.e. non-raw images).

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+1

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+2

Topaz’ raw conversion, in my experience, is very poor indeed. I would only use it on TIFFs. Also Topaz DNGs are interpreted as massively underexposed in Capture One (fixable but annoying). I use DeepPRIME in PhotoLab (not PureRaw) when I need to. But I have used Topaz tools to rescue/recover film scans. It does that very well.

I’m using DXO deep prime and totally satisfied. I just don’t need TOPAZ denoiseAI any more What I DO need is Sharpen AI which I still use exclusively for motion blur.

I have Topaz Denoise and found that to be very good, better than Adobe but I use LR for raw conversion and editing. I don't normally need noise reduction in my usual workflow even though I am using m4/3 small sensor. There are many techniques that allow me to minimize noise right from the start. Your situation may be different though. When I do use denoise, it is smart enough to maintain real features. Their Photo AI still needs lot of improvements before it is useful imo.

Yes, I am satisfied with my software.

I have Pentax K1 and K3 and shoot RAW.

I do post-processing with ON1 photo RAW 2023 and use the nonoise AI but turn the sharpening procedures of that tool to low values.

After I generated a JPG file using ON1, I put it for a final touch into Topaz Denoise AI. Here, I use the settings the software recommends for each photo. The result is even smoother denoise as well as very decent sharpening. It's like adding some eye-candy to the photo.

The first denoise process is for getting a clean RAW that will not cause artifacts using other ON1 tools and the second denoise process is for making things perfect.

Good old Topaz DeNoise 6. Gentle on the sliders.

third son said:

I am posing this question to those of you who have added denoise software to your workflow outside of Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One etc. The ones that come to mind are the big three 1) Topaz Denoise AI, DXO Pure Raw 2 and On1 No Noise AI. I have demo-ed all three and find the results can be somewhat disappointing in some cases and just OK in others. It seems to remove noise at the expense of smearing or blurring detail.

I am mainly asking this question to those who print at least 11 x 14 or A3. Are you happy you purchased?

Thanks for any constructive info....

Click to expand...

DxO PL6 with DeepPrime (and optical corrections) or DeepPrime XD -> generate DNG -> import to Capture One -> if needed, on top of that Topaz Denoise or Sharpen as plug in to C1.

Even with my 1" sensor Sony RX10 I rarely need more NR than DeepPrime XD. But, Topaz for motion blur or (out-of-focus) unsharpness of a selected subject remains very valuable.

Digital Nigel said:

Lan said:

Yes, I'm happy with DxO PhotoLab v6.

Moderately happy with Topaz Denoise AI, but I would only use it on images that I can't process using DeepPRIME (i.e. non-raw images).

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+1

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+2 Exactly This

I'm absolutely happy with NoNoise which is a part of ON1 suite. It actually works as a "patina remover" and leaves behind crisp, detailed, and a bit lighter image. It is just amazing to watch how it works.

NoNoise became a standard workflow tool which I apply on early steps to all RAWs I process

well, really love DxO

i have laptop with good specs so i don't mind to apply Deep Prime XD on everyshot

my 16mp m4/3 lumix can stay with me for many years to come until it's broken.

I have trialled them all - all of these AI malarkey noise reductions are unusable for me, not that I need noise reduction very often but if I do I want to have something reliable that doesn't enforce a completely different workflow or - and that's the thing that outright disqualifies these AI tools - deliver inconsistent results across the subject and provide a too obvious transition to the background. Since these AI tools in my test cases often mistake subject detail for noise and noise for subject detail they are utterly useless to me, especially for print because if the noise reduction does too much, you are always on the verge of running into problems in printing (posterisation) because the color distribution of the print head nozzles is done with an error diffusion process and that runs afoul of those transitions quite often.

I have been testing out Silky Pix 11 Pro and have been happy with their noise reduction process.