My real world experiences with mft and FF

Great comments and beautiful images, thanks!

> People have done blind print sharing tests where experienced photographers can't tell which type of body was used.<

That kind of analysis is something I'd be very interested in reading. Blind testing sometimes yields very interesting, and often unexpected, results.

I'm sure you all have seen similar, but recently while prowling around YouTube I came across yet another "FF vs ___" video. The presenter must have zoomed in 3 or 4 times before he started comparing image noise. Uh, OK.
 
I showed a friend 16x20 inch prints I made with a Nikon Z7 and Olympus EM5, and he could not tell the difference. Also, I use my Olympus now EM5iii for backcountry landscape photography. I still carry a tripod. It seems like this discussion comes up every couple of weeks. Also, the difference between APS-C and 4:3 is so tiny it is a moot point. You may get more flexibility post processing FF over 4:3 but if you are just shooting JPEGS then I wouldn't worry. Others may disagree.

Comparison_fullframe_apsc_micro_four_thirds_sensor.png

https://gdanmitchell.com/2023/02/11/using-multiple-camera-systems/comment-page-1#comment-287970
 
I've made and sold 13X19 prints from a 3500X2000 photo file that looked great and looked like they can be printed bigger. In this size, you don't need as big a file as you think. You can print 24X36 from a 20MP image.
 
You also asked about print sizes which I forgot to include in my response. I have had a number of prints done at commercial print houses in sizes up to 24x36" from my M43, APS-C, and FF images. I also have an Epson Photo Printer that will print up to 11x17" photos. Since both FF and APS-C use a 2:3 aspect ratio, I crop my M43 images to match and have experienced no issues with image quality.
 
Which brings us to the actual point. For example, last time I shot wedding in a dim church, and especially when shooting in an even darker party place with a full-frame, I often had to reduce the aperture so that the depth of field was not too narrow. This means that the ISO value had to be raised. With the mft equipment, I can shoot wide open without worry, because DoF corresponds to twice as small FF aperture.

So, for example, with the RF 70-200/2.8, I often had to reduce the aperture to f5.6 in order to have everything needed in focus, while with the mft I would have ended up with the same at f2.8. But with at a lower ISO.
Exactly! Funny how everyone just assumes that less DOF is always better, therefore FF is better. The larger sensor is only better for getting pixels, slightly more dynamic range (if light is available), and slightly less DOF (if the subject permits).
See, this is what drives me nuts.

You do realize there’s more to resolution than megapixels, right? Bigger sensors collect more light total, so for the same image and same megapixels, the same image shot on the bigger sensor (with comparable lens and settings) will have better resolution.

Thing is, the difference with APSC isn’t enough for me to use it anymore, MFT is close enough.

Full frame is a different story.
MFT on certain conditions can be very close to FF, but in many conditions, FF is better and not just because of noise and DR.

That’s why I use both.

Love MFT all you want but don’t make up your own truth.
 
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At ff f1.4 or 1.8, I usually pick one of the two contestants to be in focus. The other one is just to give context, while the large aperture helps blur distractive backgrounds away.

I have access to sit close to the tatami, though. If I sat on the stand with other spectators, I would have used the 40-150 2.8 for compact size, but that effect I look for will be lost.
Cannot agree more with the idea of a fighter separated during kumite. FF F2.8 in this regard is to deep for one, and too shallow for both, unless both are close to each other.
I used to have fast primes, but I do not like zooming with my legs. As far as being close to tatami, I always negotiate, since the perspective from the stands is not acceptable. Once I was allowed to use pretty strong flash with beauty dish, to my surprise. Still cannot understand how it did happen.

I am far from bashing full frame for no reason. I am just delighted with PL F1.7 MFT zooms, which have no FF real equivalent. Any F4 zoom such as 24-105 does not come close in terms of poor light. So for me, within a FL of 20-300 MFT offers spectacular solutions for my needs.
 
That's wrong. At base ISO and the same exposure, there is no light benefit to a larger sensor. Unless one file has area deal more resolution than the other and you pixel peep you could not tell the difference between them.
 
When OLY had a loner program the local store told me some people who borrowed an EM1.3 said they didn't know you can make a good photo with an M43 sensor camera.

I knew someone who bought a D90 back in the day and took a photo of something he wanted to print as a label. He owned the print shop. It was important so I asked him if he wanted to use the LCD to see if he took a good image. He asked me, "Is that what the LCD is for?"

A lot of people do not know a lot about cameras, even when they own them. Nikon and Canon sold a lot of entry-level DSLR kits to people who thought they had to have one, hardly ever used them, and used them as a P&S. I bet you can buy most of them at garage sales for $20 with less than 1,000 shots on the shutter.

It's easy to see how a simple comment like - "You can't make a good photo with a Micro Four Thirds camera because the sensor is too small" was widely believed by most DSLR owners, including ASP-C camera owners even those who also used compact cameras with sensors smaller than 1" and thought they were great. Most people don't take photography seriously enough to invest the time to learn about it. They just want a photo.

As time goes on there will be fewer who do understand cameras because their only experience with them will be cell phones.

It's unfortunate that naming the system Micro Four Thirds was a world-class marketing blunder that labeled the system less capable than it ever was compared to larger sensor cameras. The system might just be climbing out of the hole bad branding put it in.

It looks that way in this forum where the narrative has changed significantly but how about the Nikon, Canon, SONY, and Fuji forums? I don't go there because I don't have one. Would I still find the people who post there think you have to have a full-frame sensor?

Full Frame. Good branding. Why is it a standard to be measured against other than 35mm was/is a general purpose professional film standard?
People will always choose some standard to make comparisons and choices understandable. Even the smaller format camera manufacturers say "equivalent to _____ in FF". It's just how life is, we always chose some measurement means, usually whichever came first or is most popular is the one that gets chosen.
 
That's wrong. At base ISO and the same exposure, there is no light benefit to a larger sensor. Unless one file has area deal more resolution than the other and you pixel peep you could not tell the difference between them.
Exposure is light per unit area, so there is about 4X light on the FF sensor vs MFT at the same exposure. Base ISO for FF is typically 100 vs 200 for MFT. Typically, you shoot landscape to DoF constraints, so FF exposure is less at the same shutter speed. However, you often have the opportunity to use slower shutter speeds for landscape.

The appearance of noise viewed at the same final image size depends mostly on light per final image area, so FF has a significant potential advantage when “lifting shadows”. The red and green channels have little signal in a blue sky, so skies can be an issue, even in bright sunlight.

DR at base ISO normalised to final viewing conditions (what I believe Dr Claff calls PDR), is important in many landscapes. You can exposure bracket but I see a small resolution loss when doing that.

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post
 
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When OLY had a loner program the local store told me some people who borrowed an EM1.3 said they didn't know you can make a good photo with an M43 sensor camera.

I knew someone who bought a D90 back in the day and took a photo of something he wanted to print as a label. He owned the print shop. It was important so I asked him if he wanted to use the LCD to see if he took a good image. He asked me, "Is that what the LCD is for?"

A lot of people do not know a lot about cameras, even when they own them. Nikon and Canon sold a lot of entry-level DSLR kits to people who thought they had to have one, hardly ever used them, and used them as a P&S. I bet you can buy most of them at garage sales for $20 with less than 1,000 shots on the shutter.

It's easy to see how a simple comment like - "You can't make a good photo with a Micro Four Thirds camera because the sensor is too small" was widely believed by most DSLR owners, including ASP-C camera owners even those who also used compact cameras with sensors smaller than 1" and thought they were great. Most people don't take photography seriously enough to invest the time to learn about it. They just want a photo.

As time goes on there will be fewer who do understand cameras because their only experience with them will be cell phones.

It's unfortunate that naming the system Micro Four Thirds was a world-class marketing blunder that labeled the system less capable than it ever was compared to larger sensor cameras. The system might just be climbing out of the hole bad branding put it in.

It looks that way in this forum where the narrative has changed significantly but how about the Nikon, Canon, SONY, and Fuji forums? I don't go there because I don't have one. Would I still find the people who post there think you have to have a full-frame sensor?

Full Frame. Good branding. Why is it a standard to be measured against other than 35mm was/is a general purpose professional film standard?
You do find people on the Sony FE forum who think you must always get a better image using an FF camera. They seem to be in a minority. There are posts every couple of months from people thinking of moving from MFT. The normal advice is to think very carefully about what they are hoping to achieve.

Many people with FF cameras like or have an MFT system. In my case, it’s my main system. OMDS said they acquired new users with the OM1 which increased their operating profit by stimulating new high-end lens sales. In the last two years I’ve bought an 8/1.8, 40-15/2.8, MC14 and 300/4 around an OM1 purchase. I’d be tempted by a GX10. In general, I prefer Panasonic primes to Olympus, although the 200mm was just too expensive for its shooting envelope - nice lens though. I also bought a Laowa 10/2 and a used PL25/1.4 mk i.

There certainly seems to have been a failure of marketing by Olympus. My personal view is that it was more strategic product management and failure to move with the market than sensor branding. In general MFT is smaller and cheaper than FF mirrorless until you get to the edge of the shooting envelope.

The mistake in terms of attracting new users was developing lenses like the f1.2 primes before the f4 zooms. The f1.2s are heavy and expensive for their shooting envelopes. Decent lenses, but a modest profit opportunity from existing MFT owners. The f4 zooms are unique, especially in combination with small and highly functional bodies - shame they got that wrong as well as launching the 150-400 so far ahead of the OM1.

Whether we like it or not, Panasonic seem to see video as a more profitable application than stills. Lenses like the 10-25mm and 25-50mm pair are a pretty strong and consistent indicator and probably make quite a bit of profit from GH6 owners.

Olympus got other things wrong, including not having a single MFT Dual IS standard and trying to keep lens sales by tying functions to Olympus lenses. That made it less attractive for Sigma and Tamron to play.

As they say - YMMV…

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post
 
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I agree. I had the 17 and the 45 f/1.2 lenses. Great lenses but I found I didn't use them except in extreme low light which is a rare experience for me. I thought they were superior but I always found myself picking up the f/1.8s because I didn't have a use for anything faster so I didn't see enough benefit in taking the bigger lenses. I know the f/1.2 lenses make better images with better bokeh, but it didn't make me use them. I'm not enough of an artist for that.

I think it tells you something about the practical use of the system. Small, light, reasonably priced, good quality, works in average DoF and lighting situations, not as much for extremes.

I traded the 12-40 for the 12-45 for lighter weight. I thought the 12-40 was nose heavy with nothing to hold on to. I don't miss the stop of light. I added the 40-150 f/4 and kept the 40-150 f/2.8 for the extra stop when I need it but mostly for the TCs.

I think the f/4 zooms are brilliant because of the packaging and the weather sealing. They are fast enough for what I do and a joy of a small, light, high quality imaging package to carry in a small bag with 1-2 bodies, the 25 f/1.8 and more. This kit makes me happy. So much capability in 4lbs. with two bodies and a 12-150 range in two lenses at f/4 + a fast prime. Just a great lightweight capable weather sealed kit except for the prime.

I go there first and add/change as needed but not often. Its perfection for me. The right balance of range, DoF, speed, quality, size and weight for an all-day carry anywhere. The perfect M43 kit for my needs

I think the 20 f/1.4 is a good compromise between the f/1.2 and f/1.8 primes. I'd buy one but I'm not sure I'll like the FL. f/1.4 might be the right speed for primes for general use though.

I don't know why they went for f/2.8 zooms and f/1.8 primes first. Maybe they thought they had to offer these speeds because they were getting bashed over low light and shallow DoF comparisons to other formats at a time when higher ISO was not as usable. Same thing with the f/1.2 primes which seem to be a response to bokeh interest.

I like where the system is now. It's just what I need. I would have bought the f/4 zooms if the OM-1 wasn't available but it wouldn't surprise me if that body sold a number of f/2.8 40-150s, f/4 300s and 100-400s for them for the improved AF system I think its a great improvement over the bodies it replaced. Probably 150-400s too though in low numbers but it seems all they can make.
 
It's true that a FF sensor can recover a much greater range of EV past the proper exposure. I've seen it in real world uTUBE video comparisons between OM-1 and Z6II.

But +-3EV that can be recovered from OM-1 files is a lot. I've seen that in my own photos where I expected to see a lot of noise in shadows pulled up that much but don't. They are better than I expected even when they start from black and appear to have nothing to recover.

I'm not disputing the lab test. I am saying from practical experience the OM-1 is a better landscape camera than I expected.

In spite of some issues with HHHR I found stacking is very noise reducing and makes great improvements in bright skies. Color fidelity is improved too. With another generation of processing speed I'm interested to see with HHHR can do at this tech gets better and better with each generation. HDR is available too.

I wish I had some examples of shadow recovery on this laptop. They are not on this one.

I think with lots of light as base ISO and DR in +-3EV M43 is going to be darn close to FF. As DR and ISO rise quality diverges but the OM-1 sensor produces very low levels of noise up to ISO800, better than the Z6 which spikes above ISO400 if I remember correctly and the Z6 a great landscape camera.

Having said this if landscapes were more important to me I'd buy a FF landscape camera. Since they aren't so important I'm happy with the M43 system for this use. Side by side or zooming in enough or high enough ISO and I might not say that but if I just look at the landscapes I have, they are more than good enough for me and everybody else I share them with. Nobody ever said I should have used a FF camera to take them. I don't need anything better than that. I want to be able to say look at this beautiful place, not look at the image quality of the photo, anywhere else that is, besides a DPR forum.
 
It's true that a FF sensor can recover a much greater range of EV past the proper exposure. I've seen it in real world uTUBE video comparisons between OM-1 and Z6II.
Unless motion in your scene limits your exposure time, the "proper exposure" would have no recovery at all on the high end, because you would have exposed right up to the point that important highlights were being clipped.
But +-3EV that can be recovered from OM-1 files is a lot. I've seen that in my own photos where I expected to see a lot of noise in shadows pulled up that much but don't. They are better than I expected even when they start from black and appear to have nothing to recover.
The advantage of getting more light is not highlight recovery (which, again, simply means you underexposed to begin with), it is a less noisy photo at every level.
I'm not disputing the lab test. I am saying from practical experience the OM-1 is a better landscape camera than I expected.

In spite of some issues with HHHR I found stacking is very noise reducing and makes great improvements in bright skies. Color fidelity is improved too. With another generation of processing speed I'm interested to see with HHHR can do at this tech gets better and better with each generation. HDR is available too.
Color and DR are directly related to noise.
I think with lots of light as base ISO and DR in +-3EV M43 is going to be darn close to FF.
It will be as close as ISO 100 on mFT is to ISO 800 on FF (3 stops).
As DR and ISO rise quality diverges but the OM-1 sensor produces very low levels of noise up to ISO800, better than the Z6 which spikes above ISO400 if I remember correctly and the Z6 a great landscape camera.
That is simply not true.
Having said this if landscapes were more important to me I'd buy a FF landscape camera.
In the case of landscapes, the advantage of FF over mFT is simply convenience: you can get the resolution/DR you want with fewer exposures. However, by stacking and merging exposures, any system can get you as much resolution and DR as you want, so long as motion in the scene is a non-issue (which is typically, but not always, true for landscapes).
Since they aren't so important I'm happy with the M43 system for this use. Side by side or zooming in enough or high enough ISO and I might not say that but if I just look at the landscapes I have, they are more than good enough for me and everybody else I share them with. Nobody ever said I should have used a FF camera to take them. I don't need anything better than that. I want to be able to say look at this beautiful place, not look at the image quality of the photo, anywhere else that is, besides a DPR forum.
For sure. However, it's also important to note the same is true for an OM-1 vs the original EM-1. That is, the bar for "good enough" was passed long, long ago for the vast majority of photos people take at the sizes they are displayed. So much so that most people are more than satisfied with the results of smartphones nowadays.

For example, from my smartphone:



fddd6fa9b01f40daa70700bff17aa06d.jpg

Nothing striking, of course, and would have been better with a larger sensor system, but, if showing the photo to people at the size they would view it, do you think anyone would care about the differences, even if they noticed them?
 
It's true that a FF sensor can recover a much greater range of EV past the proper exposure. I've seen it in real world uTUBE video comparisons between OM-1 and Z6II.
Unless motion in your scene limits your exposure time, the "proper exposure" would have no recovery at all on the high end, because you would have exposed right up to the point that important highlights were being clipped.
But +-3EV that can be recovered from OM-1 files is a lot. I've seen that in my own photos where I expected to see a lot of noise in shadows pulled up that much but don't. They are better than I expected even when they start from black and appear to have nothing to recover.
The advantage of getting more light is not highlight recovery (which, again, simply means you underexposed to begin with), it is a less noisy photo at every level.
I'm not disputing the lab test. I am saying from practical experience the OM-1 is a better landscape camera than I expected.

In spite of some issues with HHHR I found stacking is very noise reducing and makes great improvements in bright skies. Color fidelity is improved too. With another generation of processing speed I'm interested to see with HHHR can do at this tech gets better and better with each generation. HDR is available too.
Color and DR are directly related to noise.
I think with lots of light as base ISO and DR in +-3EV M43 is going to be darn close to FF.
It will be as close as ISO 100 on mFT is to ISO 800 on FF (3 stops).
As DR and ISO rise quality diverges but the OM-1 sensor produces very low levels of noise up to ISO800, better than the Z6 which spikes above ISO400 if I remember correctly and the Z6 a great landscape camera.
That is simply not true.
Having said this if landscapes were more important to me I'd buy a FF landscape camera.
In the case of landscapes, the advantage of FF over mFT is simply convenience: you can get the resolution/DR you want with fewer exposures. However, by stacking and merging exposures, any system can get you as much resolution and DR as you want, so long as motion in the scene is a non-issue (which is typically, but not always, true for landscapes).
Since they aren't so important I'm happy with the M43 system for this use. Side by side or zooming in enough or high enough ISO and I might not say that but if I just look at the landscapes I have, they are more than good enough for me and everybody else I share them with. Nobody ever said I should have used a FF camera to take them. I don't need anything better than that. I want to be able to say look at this beautiful place, not look at the image quality of the photo, anywhere else that is, besides a DPR forum.
For sure. However, it's also important to note the same is true for an OM-1 vs the original EM-1. That is, the bar for "good enough" was passed long, long ago for the vast majority of photos people take at the sizes they are displayed. So much so that most people are more than satisfied with the results of smartphones nowadays.

For example, from my smartphone:

fddd6fa9b01f40daa70700bff17aa06d.jpg

Nothing striking, of course, and would have been better with a larger sensor system, but, if showing the photo to people at the size they would view it, do you think anyone would care about the differences, even if they noticed them?
Glad there are others on this forum who enjoy the format but understand the limitations and don’t tolerate fake news.

And yes… expose to the right isn’t something many do unfortunately
 
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I agree. I had the 17 and the 45 f/1.2 lenses. Great lenses but I found I didn't use them except in extreme low light which is a rare experience for me. I thought they were superior but I always found myself picking up the f/1.8s because I didn't have a use for anything faster so I didn't see enough benefit in taking the bigger lenses. I know the f/1.2 lenses make better images with better bokeh, but it didn't make me use them. I'm not enough of an artist for that.

I think it tells you something about the practical use of the system. Small, light, reasonably priced, good quality, works in average DoF and lighting situations, not as much for extremes.

I traded the 12-40 for the 12-45 for lighter weight. I thought the 12-40 was nose heavy with nothing to hold on to. I don't miss the stop of light. I added the 40-150 f/4 and kept the 40-150 f/2.8 for the extra stop when I need it but mostly for the TCs.

I think the f/4 zooms are brilliant because of the packaging and the weather sealing. They are fast enough for what I do and a joy of a small, light, high quality imaging package to carry in a small bag with 1-2 bodies, the 25 f/1.8 and more. This kit makes me happy. So much capability in 4lbs. with two bodies and a 12-150 range in two lenses at f/4 + a fast prime. Just a great lightweight capable weather sealed kit except for the prime.

I go there first and add/change as needed but not often. Its perfection for me. The right balance of range, DoF, speed, quality, size and weight for an all-day carry anywhere. The perfect M43 kit for my needs

I think the 20 f/1.4 is a good compromise between the f/1.2 and f/1.8 primes. I'd buy one but I'm not sure I'll like the FL. f/1.4 might be the right speed for primes for general use though.
I've always thought lenses like the PL25/1.4, the Sigma 56/1.4, and more recently the 20/1.4 Pro struck a sweet spot that the system could've really used more of; not to mention all 3 are some of the smaller weather sealed primes, something the system could've used more of as well... This coming from someone that bought and loved the 17/1.2 (and now has a FF 20/1.8, 35/1.4 & 75/1.8).

Even the PL12/1.4 isn't that large for what it is, the price is just a little out there like many of the older/faster M4/3 wides (hello 12/2). Fuji seemed to recognize and target that niche better with their f2 WR line and with the updates to their older f1.4s, but their zooms and tele primes are as big as anything in FF land. It did seem like the f1.2 Pro prime cycle tied up Oly for several years.

That and the manufacturing plant move were both timed poorly... The 12-45/4 should've been out before or along with the E-M5 III which itself should've been out like a year earlier (wouldn't have run head on into the pandemic either, tho no one could predict that), and the 100-400 definitely should've been out much earlier.
I don't know why they went for f/2.8 zooms and f/1.8 primes first. Maybe they thought they had to offer these speeds because they were getting bashed over low light and shallow DoF comparisons to other formats at a time when higher ISO was not as usable. Same thing with the f/1.2 primes which seem to be a response to bokeh interest.
Ehh, f2.8 zooms can be pretty small, Oly just chose FL ranges and features that ballooned the size of their zooms while Pana went in subtly different directions that resulted in much more portable lenses; eg Pana's PL8-18 f2.8-4 or 7-14/4 vs Oly 7-14/2.8 Pro, or P 35-100/2.8 X vs O 40-150/2.8 Pro. The Pana 12-35/2.8 X is practically in the same size/weight category as the Oly 12-45/4 Pro.

For me the 35-100/2.8 is still one of the key lenses that keeps me shooting the system. It's totally subjective but I care a lot more about the speed than the extra range thru 300mm equivalent, which has always felt like no man's land to me. If I wanted to shoot longer I'd go way longer and spring for the PL50-200 or the 100-300 II I already own, and the former is still smaller than the 40-150/2.8 Pro. Notably the 35-100, 40-150/4, PL50-200, and 75/100-300 are still smaller and/or lighter than most FF tele zooms.

I use that 35-100 for everything from events, concerts, and social occasions to landscapes and action, often on a dinky little GX850 body. I'm still curious about the other xx-2xx tele zooms Oly had on their roadmap (which OM had kept on), although between the two 35-100 (f4-5.6 & f2.8) and my FF 50-400 I'm probably set for the foreseeable future.
I like where the system is now. It's just what I need. I would have bought the f/4 zooms if the OM-1 wasn't available but it wouldn't surprise me if that body sold a number of f/2.8 40-150s, f/4 300s and 100-400s for them for the improved AF system I think its a great improvement over the bodies it replaced. Probably 150-400s too though in low numbers but it seems all they can make.
It's just too bad it's taking just as long for anything from the OM-1 to filter down the product line as it took for anything from the E-M1 II to filter down the line. The OM-5 was not it.

For me, smaller bodies is a key part of the M4/3 size advantage, there's loads and loads of small FF primes now which overlap plenty with M4/3, and even some relatively small 350-500g f4 and f2.8 FF zooms (just not teles of course, a variable 70-300 is the only thing that'll be that light); but FF bodies can at best scale to something the size of a GX9 (and there's basically only one 500g RF-like body like that around, most are SLR style 650g+).

That IMO has been Oly/OM's biggest hurdle, nothing wrong with an E-M10 or E-PL but those lines (or even the E-M5/OM-5) haven't seen the kinds of improvement over the last 6+ years that the flagships have.
 
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You have -+3EV of recovery in both directions with the OM1. There is no reason to expose to the right because 3EV is a lot of recovery. In the photo below where you see a bridge and people walking across it that started as a jpg, not RAW and that area was pitch black. I didn't think the sensor picked up anything in those shadows. I saw nothing there with my eyes. Of course this also illustrates HHRM cannot be used even for slow-walking people. It does work for people posing if you want a lot of detail in the background. With this much shadow recovery in a jpg and more with a RAW presumably, it is good enough for me. It just isn't usable for motion.

That wooden bridge on the left with two people walking across it, that area was as black as a coal mine. I didn't see anything in there but black. I was amazed that anything showed up in recovery. There is a lot of DR in this composition. Bright, direct sunlight and dark shadow and all of it looks good. The sky is smooth and clean on a hazy day. The colors are good. There is very little noise in the dark shadow-recovered areas. There are more enhancements in HHHR mode than resolution. I'm more impressed with that than I am with the additional resolution. I'm going to see how a 25MP file works when I want better IQ but not more resolution. This would have been a good opportunity to try the 25MP HHHR photo.

You are wrong about noise. I didn't bookmark the chart that shows the OM-1 sensor is not generating noise at ISO800 and below but I know I saw it. It had the Z6 sensor included in the test. The way the curve works out, from ISO400 to ISO800 the noise curve on the OM is pretty flat but it rises on the Z6. Not what I expected.

I'm not arguing the OM-1 beats the Z6 in low-light capture, noise or shadow recovery. The Z6 wins. Z6 shadow recovery is +- 6EV if I remember correctly. Much better. It helps in extreme DR situations but when you have that much DR in the composition you need to think about using HDR anyway or find better lighting.

Setting the lab test aside, they don't always map perfectly over practical application. I'm looking for how the system works in the field. If the OM-1 recovers this much detail out of a totally black area of a jpg photo without delivering a grainy, noisy mess, with this IQ, I don't need anything that does it better.

Photos where highlights were blown out, were not exposed correctly. There is no problem with this inside an 8EV DR range. 8EV is enough for all but extreme situations where you probably won't try to make a photo. The OM-1 DR range is more than 9.

Since I didn't bookmark the noise lab test you are going to have to post one that shows the FF sensor produces less noise from ISO800 and less but also produces a noticeable difference in a real-world image because I make photos, not lab tests. IMO if I have to use a longer exposure or a faster lens I'm going to be able to match the noise level of the FF sensor with the M43 camera. I can handhold the OM1 for ten seconds to do it if I can sit or lean on something. On a tripod, there is no time limit. For a single-image landscape, the FF camera can have more resolution. Nothing more. In most cases more than a 6EV range is not necessary so it doesn't help much as a practical matter.

You can produce a test that will show one system is better than another one but it could be only true for the test. If the system has the capability to capture the image, no greater capability adds anything to the effort.

5a34da19bb6048708d8cc531f07429ce.jpg

Regarding your cell phone landscape, it's a terrible photo that demonstrates a situation where a cell phone works poorly. The sky is a weird color and the mountains and the trees in the foreground are too dark, and lack detail. I'd delete it.
 
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I bought a PL25/1.4 mk i used. Since WR isn't important for my use, it seemed a bargain at £250 (with warranty).

It's not that small but it is much lighter than its size suggests. My perspective is that it nudges the 20/1.4 in terms of IQ and it's close to my favourite FL. The 20/1.4 is weather sealed and has faster AF.

Used mk i and kit Panasonic lenses really are excellent value, provided they fit your needs.

Andrew
 
I bought a PL25/1.4 mk i used. Since WR isn't important for my use, it seemed a bargain at £250 (with warranty).

It's not that small but it is much lighter than its size suggests. My perspective is that it nudges the 20/1.4 in terms of IQ and it's close to my favourite FL. The 20/1.4 is weather sealed and has faster AF.

Used mk i and kit Panasonic lenses really are excellent value, provided they fit your needs.

Andrew
I was mostly okay with the price of the PL25 II tbh, I actually pre-ordered the thing out of principle as much as anything... For several years (as soon as Pana started doing Mk II updates) I kept saying the original PL25 was an obvious candidate for a sealed Mk II, I would've liked to see an aperture ring added too but that's no big deal, so when said update happened I put my money where my mouth was.

It's not even my favorite FL (I lean more towards 35mm equivalent) but at the time I really wanted something smaller than my 17/1.2 with sealing and/or better AF than the 20/1.7... Ironically my only really small and well sealed FF prime is a 24mm, so that's still not perfectly ideal, but they're all pretty fast at AF and I kinda like the 45/1.8 I've got at around the PL25's size (both have acceptable flaws for their size, for me anyway).

The PL25 almost seems underrated at this point, no it's not nearly as sharp wide open as more recent Pro/PL primes (barely catching up with the better f1.8 at similar f-stops), but that seems to have been used against it for too long despite all it's other nice attributes. Years earlier I'd used/borrowed the original PL25 a bunch tho, on a GM1 even, I can see why others might overlook it without first hand experience. I'd actually bought and gifted that original PL25 for like $500 US when the CAD/USD exchange was favorable, heh.
 
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