Do I Need A (Strong) Modeling Light?

I would agree with Don that it may or may not be a problem but you won't know for sure until you start using it.

Batdude said:

Hello ladies and gentleman

I just received my new Flashpoint Xplor 600 R2 and I just realized that this is NOT the newer Pro version that has the much stronger 38W modeling light. My light is only 10 Watts. My mistake :-(

I don't mind returning and exchanging it even if the Pro version costs more, but my question is: Do I (need) the Pro model strobe with the brighter modeling light?

Remember that I'm completely new at this and this is the beginning of a new flash photography world so at this point in time I have zero experience with this so I can't say yes I need it for this and for that.

By watching several Youtube videos I notice that when certain photographers are doing their indoor photoshoot they have the room's lights turned on, so they are not in completely darkness. From the understanding I have so far, the modeling light is mostly to help the camera lock on the AF. Also to get an idea of where or how the shadows will end up looking. Am I going to run into "bad" situations where I will need a strong modeling light. Before doing photoshoots I always do my research and ask all these things what's available or not and if I'm doing it locally I always do a walkthru.

One of the thing I will be doing is using umbrellas to point up and bounce light back down to the subject. One thing I don't see myself adding is a bunch of layers of diffusers. Is just not my thing. The most I might do is one outer layer that's it.

So what's your input on this, should just I exchange the strobe or keep the one I got and keep the savings?

Thank you.

Click to expand...

In my experience, the only time the modeling light is useful is in my small studio where I can turn down the room lights. In that scenario, it takes at least a 38 watt LED modeling lamp (or a 150 watt incandescent lamp) to provide worthwhile power in a softbox.

When I'm on location, I normally can't control the ambient lighting, so no modeling lamp is useful. I just take a shot and examine my camera or tethered laptop screen.

Of course, you can do that in the studio as well.

Bottom line: In this digital age, you can live without the modeling lamp. It provides a convenience in certain situations that may or may not be worth the extra money to you.

Modeling lights? Depends on what you are doing and your knowledge of lighting!

If you want to do serious studio or location work which entails precise lighting, you need modeling lights especaill if you are employing techniques such as feathering, using modifiers, or special parabolics that require "focusing" the beam in different ways. If you inted to use umbrellas, softboxes, etc, you need more powerful modeling lights because some intensity is lost in bouncing and diffusion in these devices. If you only use your lights directly (straight on) you still need modeling lights to place your lights precisely.

In a controlled situation, as in a studio, you should darken the room to make certain the ambient light does not overpower the modeling lights to the point where their effect is not noticeable or visible.

Experienced photograhers can oftentimes place their lights, without modeling lights, adequately enough to enable certain multiple lighing effects for somewhat acceptable results but in many cases, more precise placement is required.

A professional grade lighting system is always preferable and there are many brands that are not outrageously expensive but well-built and reliable. If you have flash gear with no or inadequate modeling lights, there are a few workarounds where you can add an additional light in a softbox or an umbrella configuration. On some older units, there was a choice of interchangeable 250 or 500-watt quartz modeling lamps. In the latest units with LED modeling lights, I am not sure if there's any interchangeability.

Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I only use my modelling lights for AF , you would be better off spending your money on mounting a 22inch monitor to a tripod and streaming live via hdmi and get yourself a good radio remote shutter trigger and shoot selfies to get started

Rp

Personally I never use mine. But I’m aware there can be times where it’s a “nice to have” - precise shadow placement for still life, or when using a zoom spot on a model’s face.

For AF assist I’m more inclined to bring a daylight balanced LED that matches the color output of my strobes - 5500-5600K - and I will either bounce that around the room, or kick it into the surface of my strobe so that it appears to come from the same place (disappears) when firing the strobes. This way I’m not draining my strobe’s batteries and always have a room light going.

One thing to consider: once you get practiced, if you’re working on a human face as your subject, you’ll get to where you rough in the light placement before they’ve sat, and in 2-3 test frames you get it precisely placed using their face as your guide. Combination of catchlights and the nose and chin shadows will tell you everything you need to know about where the light should move to.

With a modelling LED, you will learn much faster.

When you say you've seen professionals only using modelling LEDs for AF etc, that's because they're using the same basic lighting set-up they've done a hundred times before, plus they have the knowledge and experience of 'how light works'. When trying something new, or when lighting angles are critical, they'll turn down the ambient studio lights so they can see exactly what's happening.

For portraits, a bright modelling LED will close down the subject's pupils so you can see the colour of their eyes. Also, when using harder lighting with dark shadows, or sitters wearing glasses, the light needs careful positioning and you need to keep a close watch on shadows and reflections that can change a lot with small movements of the subject.

A usable modelling LED needs at least 30w IMHO (eg Godox AD400Pro). You can see well with that and (when used close, on max) is bright enough to close a subject's pupils nicely for portraits.

All modelling LEDs are useless in daylight - you need a studio that can be substantially darkened.

River Photography said:

I only use my modelling lights for AF , you would be better off spending your money on mounting a 22inch monitor to a tripod and streaming live via hdmi and get yourself a good radio remote shutter trigger and shoot selfies to get started

Rp

Click to expand...

agree with this alternative

Something like second shot below. Wide angle looking up…. the top of the monitor is 6 feet high. Laptop on the stand too. Tethering Cable from Tethertools.

VIVO Mobile TV Cart for 32 to 83 inch Screens. STAND-TV03E

https://a.co/d/8tuPo2E





--
I am the copyright owner of my work. Please don’t take or alter my images.

My somewhat contradictory advice --

If the money is not a big thing go ahead and do the exchange. You may never really need the brighter light but it will be good to have it.

If you ever work in dark areas it may just be more pleasant to have more light, plus in a studio you will get a slightly better idea of how your lighting looks. But so long as you have enough light for quick, accuarate autofocus, either ambient or the modeling light, you can work.

Gato

RDKirk said:

From the understanding I have so far, the modeling light is mostly to help the camera lock on the AF. Also to get an idea of where or how the shadows will end up looking.

Click to expand...

It’s the reverse: the purpose of the modeling light is to let figure out where to put a flash to get the shadows and highlights you want before you make an exposure. Only secondarily is it a focusing aid.



do you need it? If all you are going to do is put a softbox /umbrella on the light and keep the light in basically the same position for alm of your lit portraits, no not really.

once the lighting starts getting more complicated on you use smaller reflectors with a tighter beam pattern you’ll find ot useful.

Get the higher power modeling lights.

Plus, use them to illuminate your subjects so you can tell when to press the shutter release.

Plus, if you are going to be a with-it modern visual creator, you'll end up using the brighter constant lights for video, you tube, etc.

BAK

Don89 said:

If you have to ask, you don’t need it until you do.

Click to expand...

I'm marking your answer as the answer to my question. You didn't say much, but you pretty much said it all in a really short sentence hahaha!!!

Thanks

Richard Hopkins said:

With a modelling LED, you will learn much faster.

When you say you've seen professionals only using modelling LEDs for AF etc, that's because they're using the same basic lighting set-up they've done a hundred times before, plus they have the knowledge and experience of 'how light works'. When trying something new, or when lighting angles are critical, they'll turn down the ambient studio lights so they can see exactly what's happening.

For portraits, a bright modelling LED will close down the subject's pupils so you can see the colour of their eyes. Also, when using harder lighting with dark shadows, or sitters wearing glasses, the light needs careful positioning and you need to keep a close watch on shadows and reflections that can change a lot with small movements of the subject.

A usable modelling LED needs at least 30w IMHO (eg Godox AD400Pro). You can see well with that and (when used close, on max) is bright enough to close a subject's pupils nicely for portraits.

All modelling LEDs are useless in daylight - you need a studio that can be substantially darkened.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much Mr. Hopkins I really appreciate your input as well as everyone that has commented here. I did screwed up and ordered the wrong model strobe in the first place so yes as others suggested is only a few dollars more so I will be exchanging it to the one with the brighter light.

Thank you very much everyone and you guys have a really nice week

Don89 said:

River Photography said:

I only use my modelling lights for AF , you would be better off spending your money on mounting a 22inch monitor to a tripod and streaming live via hdmi and get yourself a good radio remote shutter trigger and shoot selfies to get started

Rp

Click to expand...

agree with this alternative

Something like second shot below. Wide angle looking up…. the top of the monitor is 6 feet high. Laptop on the stand too. Tethering Cable from Tethertools.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your suggestion I will keep this setup in mind.

Member said:

VIVO Mobile TV Cart for 32 to 83 inch Screens. STAND-TV03E

https://a.co/d/8tuPo2E

Click to expand...

Imprecise questions get imprecise answers and cuase confusion.

The OP mentions "indoor" photography but does not indicate what he is shooting - portrats, products, interiors, real estate, architecture, products, whatever???

In my opinion, advanced portrat photoghy where electronic flash is employed requires modeling lamps. A totally fixed lighing system that is not movable and flexible will only yield "mug shots. ID photos or headshots with no individualized facial analysand and appropriate light to flatter, glamorize or create the best possible likeness.

There are many instances where precise ligh placement is necessary such as exact highlight and shadow placement, aiming a hair light so it doesn't spill on the forehead face, aiming a kicker or accent ligt exactly so it overlaps properly with the main light and does not cause a flare, and utilizing all the requisite feathering techniques.

As for tethering: Theatering to a laptop is great for static subjects or verification of a series of shots. I love it for still life, product shots, etc. People, however, are not static especaill in the area of expression. The expression can be fleeting and thereby requre fast and precise ice shootingg. I need to see the lighting, the expression, and the "look in the eyes" at the moment of each exposure. There is no time for referring to an off-camera screen to refine lighting and capture expressions. Modeling lights are mandatory for the approach. Ask any experienced studio portraitist. Even in fashion work, I prefer aobservig the model either through the viewfinder or near the camer to see the exact lighting, pose/expression, and textures fabrics, or furs as I shoot.

For many years, whenever possible, I have shot, and still do, all my event shoots and press coverages with multiple flash-corporate events, weddings, etc. I work with an assistant who is trained in various lighting positions and weI can simulate studio-like lighting on the fly. My portable strobes, on and off the camera, have no modelig lights but from experience, I can improvise many lighting forms, light larger areas without "black-hole" fall off, and provide dimensionally texture, and depth of light to my images. Lately, both of my on-camera units now have a modeling light which is handy for tricky lighting situations, shooting in dark places, and precluding shots of folks with dilated pupils.

In product work, addressing many surfaces from matte black to highly polished "chrome" and a wide variety of textures in metals, plastics, textiles, etc, requires finite light control and pre-visualization. In my own case, I do lots of food and beverage work and again precise and fast that is required. Oftimes foods are perishable as far as texture and capturing such things as steaming hot items, effervescent liquids, and transilluminated beverages all requires a quick assessment of the lighting. Of course, we can tether and chimp but being able to control and pre-visualize everything while I shoot makes for a more efficient and effective workflow.

For interiors in real estate, architectural, and interior decoration illustration, again, previsualization of the ligt is extremely important, especially if your flash gear is proving the primary light source. Once to get your direction of light, angles of incidence, ratios, and exposures lined up, you can then tether or chimp and refine. Otherwise, the degree of trial and error will make for very time-consuming and cost-inefficient shoots.

Admittedly, modeling lights do not always provide a perfect representation ofhthe exact final result. They may not allow you to see the USEEN secondary light that occurs with flash. That is, the light bouncing around that room can affect not only exposure but ratio. Even with matched units and tracking modeling lights yoy may fied discrepancies in ratio, contrast, etc. The only remedy for this is KNOWING your lighting system and how to work around any of its idiosyncrasies in unfamiliar surroundings. In a studio environment, you will get o know exactly what's gonna happen just by observing the modeling lamps and how they strike the subject.

Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Batdude said:

Don89 said:

If you have to ask, you don’t need it until you do.

Click to expand...

I'm marking your answer as the answer to my question. You didn't say much, but you pretty much said it all in a really short sentence hahaha!!!

Thanks

Click to expand...

Lol Experience is something gained just after you need it.

--
I am the copyright owner of my work. Please don’t take or alter my images.

Ed Shapiro said:

Imprecise questions get imprecise answers and cuase confusion.

The OP mentions "indoor" photography but does not indicate what he is shooting - portrats, products, interiors, real estate, architecture, products, whatever???

Click to expand...

That's a very good question sorry for not mentioning that. It is mainly for portraits. Perhaps in the very near future I'll start doing products.

Ed Shapiro said:

In my opinion, advanced portrat photoghy where electronic flash is employed requires modeling lamps. A totally fixed lighing system that is not movable and flexible will only yield "mug shots. ID photos or headshots with no individualized facial analysand and appropriate light to flatter, glamorize or create the best possible likeness.

There are many instances where precise ligh placement is necessary such as exact highlight and shadow placement, aiming a hair light so it doesn't spill on the forehead face, aiming a kicker or accent ligt exactly so it overlaps properly with the main light and does not cause a flare, and utilizing all the requisite feathering techniques.

As for tethering: Theatering to a laptop is great for static subjects or verification of a series of shots. I love it for still life, product shots, etc. People, however, are not static especaill in the area of expression. The expression can be fleeting and thereby requre fast and precise ice shootingg. I need to see the lighting, the expression, and the "look in the eyes" at the moment of each exposure. There is no time for referring to an off-camera screen to refine lighting and capture expressions. Modeling lights are mandatory for the approach. Ask any experienced studio portraitist. Even in fashion work, I prefer aobservig the model either through the viewfinder or near the camer to see the exact lighting, pose/expression, and textures fabrics, or furs as I shoot.

For many years, whenever possible, I have shot, and still do, all my event shoots and press coverages with multiple flash-corporate events, weddings, etc. I work with an assistant who is trained in various lighting positions and weI can simulate studio-like lighting on the fly. My portable strobes, on and off the camera, have no modelig lights but from experience, I can improvise many lighting forms, light larger areas without "black-hole" fall off, and provide dimensionally texture, and depth of light to my images. Lately, both of my on-camera units now have a modeling light which is handy for tricky lighting situations, shooting in dark places, and precluding shots of folks with dilated pupils.

In product work, addressing many surfaces from matte black to highly polished "chrome" and a wide variety of textures in metals, plastics, textiles, etc, requires finite light control and pre-visualization. In my own case, I do lots of food and beverage work and again precise and fast that is required. Oftimes foods are perishable as far as texture and capturing such things as steaming hot items, effervescent liquids, and transilluminated beverages all requires a quick assessment of the lighting. Of course, we can tether and chimp but being able to control and pre-visualize everything while I shoot makes for a more efficient and effective workflow.

For interiors in real estate, architectural, and interior decoration illustration, again, previsualization of the ligt is extremely important, especially if your flash gear is proving the primary light source. Once to get your direction of light, angles of incidence, ratios, and exposures lined up, you can then tether or chimp and refine. Otherwise, the degree of trial and error will make for very time-consuming and cost-inefficient shoots.

Admittedly, modeling lights do not always provide a perfect representation ofhthe exact final result. They may not allow you to see the USEEN secondary light that occurs with flash. That is, the light bouncing around that room can affect not only exposure but ratio. Even with matched units and tracking modeling lights yoy may fied discrepancies in ratio, contrast, etc. The only remedy for this is KNOWING your lighting system and how to work around any of its idiosyncrasies in unfamiliar surroundings. In a studio environment, you will get o know exactly what's gonna happen just by observing the modeling lamps and how they strike the subject.

Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Click to expand...

IMHO, no. I use the model lights to give me a rough idea of where the light is falling, but the final placement is determined using test shots.

They also help with AF, and they signal when the light is recycled.

I have used the same lights as you for several years, and I've been happy with them. There's a link to my flickr account in my profile.

Good luck and good light.

BAK said:

- snip -
Plus, if you are going to be a with-it modern visual creator, you'll end up using the brighter constant lights for video, you tube, etc.

Click to expand...

This too. Even if it's just for your own BTS vids. Most of the people I shoot these days want video, even if it's just to set up their own phone while we're shooting.

Gato