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PankajDubey

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PankajDubey said:
Hi all,

I would like to hear from experienced photographers who have done the reverse switch i.e moved from Manual mode or an Aperture mode etc to full Auto mode and be as happy as before( if not more).

🙏
Click to expand...
I doubt there are any who use Auto.

There is a P mode which works much like Auto but allows changes to be made (when the camera guesses wrong or the user has specific requirements) Many experienced users go to that & some even call it Professional mode (AFAIK manufacturers actually call it Program)

If my any of my cameras get knocked onto full auto it might be possible to hear me cursing from 100yds away! Usually because an everyday control is no longer available.

Av, Sv etc are semi automatic modes and tend to be the ones I use most of the time. I was brought up with Av so it's my default, but I do also use Sv & manual when the situation requires it.
 
I've never heard of that. Why bother to learn about your camera and how it works if you're just going to let the camera make all the decisions? It doesn't make sense to learn how to control the exposure, then give all that up and let the camera decide.
 
petrochemist said:
PankajDubey said:
Hi all,

I would like to hear from experienced photographers who have done the reverse switch i.e moved from Manual mode or an Aperture mode etc to full Auto mode and be as happy as before( if not more).

🙏
Click to expand...
I doubt there are any who use Auto.

There is a P mode which works much like Auto but allows changes to be made (when the camera guesses wrong or the user has specific requirements) Many experienced users go to that & some even call it Professional mode (AFAIK manufacturers actually call it Program)

If my any of my cameras get knocked onto full auto it might be possible to hear me cursing from 100yds away! Usually because an everyday control is no longer available.

Av, Sv etc are semi automatic modes and tend to be the ones I use most of the time. I was brought up with Av so it's my default, but I do also use Sv & manual when the situation requires it.
Click to expand...
To each mode its own purpose. Here's my list.
  • Manual--I have a lot of time & I want very precise control. Studio.
  • Aperture--I need specific control of depth-of-field. Historically common because of the way film camera controls work. Very common for portraits.
  • Shutter--Telephoto lenses or moving objects in the image. Time is of the essence.
  • Program--Wide/Normal lenses where pre-programmed schedules work well. Good for photojournalism. Beware some corners of the exposure envelope where ignorant/lazy programmers have left a pile of poop for you to step in. Note that in the three modes above, poop-stepping is your fault.
  • iA+ --Very much like P, but with some useful abilities to shift into Sports, Night, etc. settings. Good for running & gunning.
  • iA --Dumber version of iA+.
  • Auto--less-inteligent auto? Unintelligent auto?
Different manufacturers use slightly different nomenclature. PASM (or PAvTvM) are almost universal.

I've never heard of experienced photographers moving from PASM exclusively to Auto. I have heard of snobbish M-devotees wising up & starting to use other modes.
 
Krusty79 said:
I've never heard of that. Why bother to learn about your camera and how it works if you're just going to let the camera make all the decisions? It doesn't make sense to learn how to control the exposure, then give all that up and let the camera decide.
Click to expand...
 
Over the years I have left more and more to the camera as cameras become more capable.

My first camera was fully manual. I had to estimate the subject distance and dial in that distance on the focus ring on the lens. I had to choose the shutter speed and aperture to obtain the exposure and depth of field that I wanted.

Then I acquired an SLR which made focussing much easier as I could then see what I would get on the ground glass - no more having to estimate the subject distance.

Then I acquired a light meter which made it much easier to estimate the exposure, although using a light meter is not entirely straightforward.

...

Cutting a long story short, I now have a camera that has autofocus which I rely on nearly all the time. It has sophisticated light metering which is very good, but still far from perfect, so I often use EC (exposure compensation) with one of the auto-exposure modes (P, A, S).

However, I have never had a camera that can automatically estimate the required depth of field and hence the aperture setting. Neither have I had a camera that can automatically estimate the required shutter speed for action shots.

For these reasons, I rarely use full auto mode. In fact, my best camera does not have full auto mode available, although the cheaper ones all do.

Having said all that, if I am really in a hurry then I am happy to use full auto, but that is often when phone cameras get used, as they are, on the whole, probably the best full auto cameras available today.
 
PankajDubey said:
Krusty79 said:
I've never heard of that. Why bother to learn about your camera and how it works if you're just going to let the camera make all the decisions? It doesn't make sense to learn how to control the exposure, then give all that up and let the camera decide.
Click to expand...
The idea is that has the automation in camera got so good that one can leave that bit to the instrument.
Click to expand...
In full auto you're are leaving everything for the camera. It's more the camera taking the photo than you taking it.

The camera has no way of reading the photographers mind, so doesn't know to use a slow speed to blur/pan the action, or a fast speed to freeze it.

It doesn't know if the background to a portrait is vital ('we went here' holiday shots) or merely a distraction.

I make use of many of the auto features, often leaving it to auto white balance, set the corresponding speed/aperture to match the value I've set, and even focus for me. None of these do I use entirely but they get used a fair bit. :)
 
Tom Axford said:
Over the years I have left more and more to the camera as cameras become more capable.

My first camera was fully manual. I had to estimate the subject distance and dial in that distance on the focus ring on the lens. I had to choose the shutter speed and aperture to obtain the exposure and depth of field that I wanted.

Then I acquired an SLR which made focussing much easier as I could then see what I would get on the ground glass - no more having to estimate the subject distance.

Then I acquired a light meter which made it much easier to estimate the exposure, although using a light meter is not entirely straightforward.

...

Cutting a long story short, I now have a camera that has autofocus which I rely on nearly all the time. It has sophisticated light metering which is very good, but still far from perfect, so I often use EC (exposure compensation) with one of the auto-exposure modes (P, A, S).

However, I have never had a camera that can automatically estimate the required depth of field and hence the aperture setting. Neither have I had a camera that can automatically estimate the required shutter speed for action shots.

For these reasons, I rarely use full auto mode. In fact, my best camera does not have full auto mode available, although the cheaper ones all do.

Having said all that, if I am really in a hurry then I am happy to use full auto, but that is often when phone cameras get used, as they are, on the whole, probably the best full auto cameras available today.
Click to expand...
Thanks 🙏

I started thinking on these lines after the modes such as Handheld twilight modes on the Sony camera which is not too bad in terms of output.
 
I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.
 
jiberlin said:
I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.
Click to expand...
P mode is not full auto. In P mode, you can choose the ISO and exposure compensation. Also, on most cameras I have used, you can also change the shutter speed or aperture. I think the OP was talking about full auto (although it was not made entirely clear).
jiberlin said:
For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.
Click to expand...
I agree with that.

[By the way, the word is snobbery, not snobbism (no offence intended).]
 
Tom Axford said:
jiberlin said:
I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.
Click to expand...
P mode is not full auto. In P mode, you can choose the ISO and exposure compensation. Also, on most cameras I have used, you can also change the shutter speed or aperture. I think the OP was talking about full auto (although it was not made entirely clear).
Tom Axford said:
For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.
Click to expand...
I agree with that.

[By the way, the word is snobbery, not snobbism (no offence intended).]
Click to expand...
To clarify , I did mean this type of Auto- as in my Nikon Z5.

1189051a09f04459bf64bed5e9631110.jpg

I am not a total novice as I have used Manual with Auto ISO quite a bit .

on Nikon, I have started using pinpoint AF with Auto.

the pinpoint AF helps me go beyond the nearest focus points on which the camera would have focused otherwise.

So I choose the focus point, compose and shoot.

--
——————
Pankaj
https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1160557041/albums/chopta-birding-uttarakhand-india
 
Last edited:
jiberlin said:
I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.
Click to expand...
I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).
 
PankajDubey said:
Hi all,

I would like to hear from experienced photographers who have done the reverse switch i.e moved from Manual mode or an Aperture mode etc to full Auto mode and be as happy as before( if not more).

🙏
Click to expand...
That would be me. Once Av (set the aperture and let the camera choose the exposure time) was introduced, I couldn't wait to get my hands on one of those cameras, even though it took some time before I could afford the change.

Ironically, these days most of my shots are made using studio strobes, where I shoot fully manual, but as soon as I'm in constant light, its P mode most of the time.

And AF! Not even having to do focus and recompose anymore with full sensor coverage of AF points and Eye-AF feels almost magical.

Having learnt the hard way what the exposure settings do, I understand why beginners are sometimes encouraged to train with manual settings. It's just that you take the training wheels off your bike once you've learnt.

Good luck and good light.

Edit:

I see now you meant Full Auto. I don't use that setting much, it's too restricting. P mode with base or auto ISO, Program Shift and the occasional EC does it for me.
 
Last edited:
I’ve been a photographer for a LONG time. I think that someone who says “Always shoot Manual” is like somebody who says, “Buy a Swiss Army knife and only use the spoon.”



My first camera was fully manual: I had to stop down the lens aperture to use the camera meter, and I had to set both aperture and shutter speed.



Then I upgraded to a Nikon, and it had Aperture-preferred shooting! Wow! That was fantastic! So much faster!



In my view, at the end of the day, either you’re following what the camera meter recommends or you aren’t. If I’m shooting whales in bright sunshine, I use Shutter preferred, because things move very fast and I could easily get into a condition where ISO 100 with f/2.8 causes over-exposure, so I want the camera to stop my lens down if needed. I just start by taking test shots and I chimp them to see if I should adjust exposure comp and that’s all.



Other times, I set both aperture and shutter and let camera set ISO. I do that most times, but sometimes, like when I shoot landscapes, I set all three. Or with flash photography, I set everything manually because the flash is automatic anyway.



I have another hobby: Auto mechanics. I have a LOT of tools. Saying you only shoot Manual is like saying you only use pliers to fix cars. Maybe if you shoot one genre only, you never switch things up, I don’t know.
 
PankajDubey said:
Tom Axford said:
jiberlin said:
I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.
Click to expand...
P mode is not full auto. In P mode, you can choose the ISO and exposure compensation. Also, on most cameras I have used, you can also change the shutter speed or aperture. I think the OP was talking about full auto (although it was not made entirely clear).
PankajDubey said:
For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.
Click to expand...
I agree with that.

[By the way, the word is snobbery, not snobbism (no offence intended).]
Click to expand...
To clarify , I did mean this type of Auto- as in my Nikon Z5.

1189051a09f04459bf64bed5e9631110.jpg

I am not a total novice as I have used Manual with Auto ISO quite a bit .

on Nikon, I have started using pinpoint AF with Auto.

the pinpoint AF helps me go beyond the nearest focus points on which the camera would have focused otherwise.

So I choose the focus point, compose and shoot.

--
——————
Pankaj
https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1160557041/albums/chopta-birding-uttarakhand-india
Click to expand...
Green Mode? That’s for when you hand the camera to a friend and you don’t want them to mess up your settings.
No, I never shoot in Green. Ever.
 
MarshallG said:
I’ve been a photographer for a LONG time. I think that someone who says “Always shoot Manual” is like somebody who says, “Buy a Swiss Army knife and only use the spoon.”

My first camera was fully manual: I had to stop down the lens aperture to use the camera meter, and I had to set both aperture and shutter speed.

Then I upgraded to a Nikon, and it had Aperture-preferred shooting! Wow! That was fantastic! So much faster!

In my view, at the end of the day, either you’re following what the camera meter recommends or you aren’t. If I’m shooting whales in bright sunshine, I use Shutter preferred, because things move very fast and I could easily get into a condition where ISO 100 with f/2.8 causes over-exposure, so I want the camera to stop my lens down if needed. I just start by taking test shots and I chimp them to see if I should adjust exposure comp and that’s all.

Other times, I set both aperture and shutter and let camera set ISO. I do that most times, but sometimes, like when I shoot landscapes, I set all three. Or with flash photography, I set everything manually because the flash is automatic anyway.

I have another hobby: Auto mechanics. I have a LOT of tools. Saying you only shoot Manual is like saying you only use pliers to fix cars. Maybe if you shoot one genre only, you never switch things up, I don’t know.
Click to expand...
Many of my cameras I could only ever shoot in manual. There are no automatic features on any of my 5x4 cameras, nor the vest pocket kodak, ruby reflex... After shooting these the film will get processed manually too.

In my M42 cameras 'auto' means the aperture actually closes to the preset value when you take a picture. An internal meter is a rarity on these, and even if one exists it only controls the meter needle.

My first SLR had no way for me to set shutter speeds directly, aperture & ISO/EC being the only exposure controls.

In general there is a place for each mode - perhaps even full auto. I pick from the available options to suit the situation, this can be from the full PASM range or for a very restricted set.
 
petrochemist said:
jiberlin said:
I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.
Click to expand...
I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).
Click to expand...
I tried using P but I dislike it strongly. The problem I run into is that when you “shift” the exposure, it can shift ISO instead of Aperture/Shutter. Unless I assign the ISO, the P mode is no good for me.
The new Canons have an Fv mode which tries to get around that by automatically setting shutter/aperture/iso, but you can override any 1 or even all three. Maybe I’ll try it someday, but I’m an Old Dog.
 
MarshallG said:
petrochemist said:
jiberlin said:
I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.
Click to expand...
I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).
Click to expand...
I tried using P but I dislike it strongly. The problem I run into is that when you “shift” the exposure, it can shift ISO instead of Aperture/Shutter. Unless I assign the ISO, the P mode is no good for me.
The new Canons have an Fv mode which tries to get around that by automatically setting shutter/aperture/iso, but you can override any 1 or even all three. Maybe I’ll try it someday, but I’m an Old Dog.
Click to expand...
I think my digital cameras all allow me to specify which wheel changes what in P mode, but I don't use it much so that may only be the case on the DSLRs. (where I have the rear wheel adjust aperture/shutter speed as a pair & the front wheel do EC. If I want to adjust ISO I typically use a secondary button with the wheel (this option is not available on all my digital bodys).
 
petrochemist said:
MarshallG said:
petrochemist said:
jiberlin said:
I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.
Click to expand...
I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).
Click to expand...
I tried using P but I dislike it strongly. The problem I run into is that when you “shift” the exposure, it can shift ISO instead of Aperture/Shutter. Unless I assign the ISO, the P mode is no good for me.
The new Canons have an Fv mode which tries to get around that by automatically setting shutter/aperture/iso, but you can override any 1 or even all three. Maybe I’ll try it someday, but I’m an Old Dog.
Click to expand...
I think my digital cameras all allow me to specify which wheel changes what in P mode, but I don't use it much so that may only be the case on the DSLRs. (where I have the rear wheel adjust aperture/shutter speed as a pair & the front wheel do EC. If I want to adjust ISO I typically use a secondary button with the wheel (this option is not available on all my digital bodys).
Click to expand...
Think about it: In a film camera, when you set P mode and you need a faster shutter, you spin the wheel and it shifts the exposure. But if you have AutoISO, you spin the wheel and it might change your shutter speed or it might change your ISO. And then you curse out loud and people give you funny looks.
 
PankajDubey said:
Hi all,

I would like to hear from experienced photographers who have done the reverse switch i.e moved from Manual mode or an Aperture mode etc to full Auto mode and be as happy as before( if not more).

🙏
Click to expand...
I can't really use full auto with wide aperture lenses. It just defaults to wide open all the time.

In Program, it defaults to wide open every time when turned off/on. It doesn't do that in Aperture Mode.

I didn't notice it much with a P&S or slow zoom lens, but after using fast primes, it's hard to go back, even to compare.
 
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