taylorcurry
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Is it really worth it? I have the standard adapter but am curious if the Focal Reducer for the Mamiya 645 to GFX is really worth all that cash...?
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Focal Reducer for Mamiya 645 M645 Lens to Fujifilm GFX 50S
- Thread starter taylorcurry
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They are expensive so not many are sold.
Because not many are made they are expensive.
The market is small so it is unlikely that many will be sold and as they are expensive even less will be sold - so they are sure to be expensive.
Worth it? Not really, but it is unlikely that they will ever be any cheaper.
But as they are very small volume it is unlikely that they will ever be made in any quantity for the simple reason that the manufacturer surely wishes to minimise the risk of unsold stocks
I have a reasonable quantity of Mamiya 645 lenses and a Panasonic S1 camera body. I looked at the price of the Kipon M645-L focal reduction adapter and wished that it were a lot cheaper. I eventually decided that a 645-L was a sensible idea for me and the price only hurt once.
Works ok - I don’t have an issue and I still think that it was expensive - but compared to the cost of a raft of used M645 lenses I suppose it was not so bad.
Because not many are made they are expensive.
The market is small so it is unlikely that many will be sold and as they are expensive even less will be sold - so they are sure to be expensive.
Worth it? Not really, but it is unlikely that they will ever be any cheaper.
But as they are very small volume it is unlikely that they will ever be made in any quantity for the simple reason that the manufacturer surely wishes to minimise the risk of unsold stocks
I have a reasonable quantity of Mamiya 645 lenses and a Panasonic S1 camera body. I looked at the price of the Kipon M645-L focal reduction adapter and wished that it were a lot cheaper. I eventually decided that a 645-L was a sensible idea for me and the price only hurt once.
Works ok - I don’t have an issue and I still think that it was expensive - but compared to the cost of a raft of used M645 lenses I suppose it was not so bad.
ProfHankD
Veteran Member
The Kipon adapter you're talking about is to L full frame -- the OP wants to Fuji GFX 50S.
I wouldn't be shocked if a FF focal reducer still covered the 44x33mm sensor in the Fuji, but I don't think anybody (aside from Bav Eyes, although they say it vignettes, so I think it's really to FF with a mount swap) is commercially making focal reducers targeting 44x33mm sensors. Pitty; there are not many wide MF lenses. However, a focal reducer like that would have a tiny market... because there are 645, 6x6, 6x7, etc. lenses in a variety of mounts, so it's not clear what mount and level of reduction you'd really want to support.
My personal take is that the 44x33mm sensors are really multi-aspect FF, not MF, and I think a surprising number of FF lenses will cover acceptably....
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Heritage Cameras
Senior Member
This line in the listing would give me cause for concern:
5. Notice:this adapter has slight or heavy vignetting on GFX camera,it depends on lens
Yes I was aware of that fact but knew that Kipon made a whole range of focal reduction adapters for Mamiya M645 mount lenses. They are all much of a muchness in price as we might expect for special build low volume bespoke adapters of that type. The price certainly keeps them from being more popular and I can reasonably presume that the market was not very big to start with.
I had thought that one of them was M645-Fuji GFX - I might have been mistaken in my casual approach to responding. I am probably one of the very few using this forum who actually has a M645 to anything FR adapter. They are seriously overpriced but I doubt if the market will ever be large enough to make them price competitive.
Maybe one could be designed for 3D printing and some off the shelf lenses might be workable?
But as you say the FR would be a different formula to M645 to FF. Or maybe no glass at all?
I seem to remember that there was an adapter for EF lenses to Fuji GFX which would need some increased sensor coverage rather than the other way round. Telephoto?
I am sorry to be naive about the GFX as I don’t really subscribe to that format even though there is every reason to believe that it can do good things. I just read about it for casual interest from my largely 4/3 sensor background. Most seem to think that a FF sensor is aspirational and as good as it gets - ie: good enough.
I respect your experience and erudition and am sure that you are right.
Meanwhile I would be interested to know if there actually is a M645-GFX adapter. I know that a number of other medium format lenses can be adapted to M645 which seems to make it a bit like the ready-use version for medium format like the EF mount is for FF sensors.
This is interesting Dave. Up until now I just had a vague notion that Kipon made a version of their focal reduction adapter M645-GFX. I have no interest in owning a medium format mirrorless camera as I think I am already very over-invested in photographic kit.
But now I realise that they must have put their standard 0.7x lens set in it.
I am not an optics engineer, nor am I into the actual size of the sensor in Fuji’s “Medium Format”. But even an optical dunce must realise that “FF” does not equal Fuji “Meium Format”.
Presumably thought good enough when consideration was given as to whether the M645-GFX optics needed to be specifically tailored for the GFX sensor. The market for M645 focal reduction adapters must be quite small. Hence the fact that Kipon made a range of quite expensive M645 focal reduction adapters to several conventional mount systems.
This included the “L”mount which I bought. It does not vignette - but then this is a conventional FF sensor size.
One might wonder just how expensive a M645-GFX focal reduction adapter might be if it had a custom lens set made for it.
John Crowe
Veteran Member
I would not worry about the reducer, just live with the crop. Or, if you really want to have some fun get the Kipon Shift adapter, I think it comes with tilt too. Use your lens as a shift lens or shift/stitch to get about 33mm x 60mm or 44mm x 56mm. By shifting/stitching you use the majority of the image circle and get much larger image files.
I use two medium format lenses on my 5DSR with the Kipon M645 to EF adapter.
I use two medium format lenses on my 5DSR with the Kipon M645 to EF adapter.
It is a shift/rotate only. But if you further adapt EF-M4/3 there is a neat twist to tilt adapter that can add tilt as well.
DaSonyGuy
Forum Pro
Absolutely not...For one thing that is an optical adapter, so the additional elements in line will reduce image quality (they always do), and secondly you can make your own non optical M645 to G mount adapter out of an old M645 extension ring for a tiny fraction of the cost.
The flange focal distance (FFD) of M645 is 63.3mm but G-mount's FFD is only 26.7mm, or 36.6mm difference.
I made an M645 to SA mount adapter (63.3 FFD to to 44mm FFD) from a M645 No.1 extension ring, with the M645 mounting plate removed from the base and an SA mounting plate screwed onto the base instead. That is a 19.3mm difference in FFD and the extension ring is 11.8mm deep, so that gave me 7.5mm to play around with to get the infinity focus spot on, which was a doddle.
For the Fujifilm GFX's the M645 No.2 extension ring would be more suitable...It is 23.6mm deep with the M645 mount still on the base, or 3.1mm less than the FFD of the G mount, so with it removed and a G mounting plate screwed on you should be able to wangle infinity with it no problem, with no image quality robbing optical elements in the way. You can pick up used M645 No2 extension rings in mint condition for under $10 on ebay!...For example:
Then you just have to find yourself a G mounting plate...Taking one off a G lens is obviously not a cheap option but maybe you could get one off an lens mount adapter for the G-mount for a relatively low cost.
Come to think of it though, you can already get an M645 to G mount adapter for about £50 bucks on ebay which obviously negates having to make one...I had no choice though as it was impossible to buy a commercially made M645-SA mount adapter.
BTW, the sharpest M645 lens, is also the cheapest M645 lens...It's the M645 80mm f2.8N, which is basically a kit lens, but on SA mount in front of an APS-C sensor it's one of the sharpest lenses I have ever used. I have also tried the 45mm f2.8N, and the 210mm f4N too but they were very soft in comparison, so I got rid of them and just kept the 80mm.
There is a faster M645 80mm 1.9 available but it costs a lot more....You can get an good f2.8 for under 200 bucks if you shop around, but f1.9's start at over 370 bucks.
idleidolidyll
Member
Well I started doing some research to see if the Kipon 645 to GFX focal reducer would be any good. Unfortunately, all I found was people posting conjecture and opinion rather than actual experience or test shots.
Given I'd used a Metabones focal reducer for Sony A to Sony E with great results, I just took the plunge and dived in on the Kipon.
Yes, it's expensive but what's an extra stop of light worth to you? What's it worth to use the full coverage of your wide angle lenses rather than have them act like longer lenses?
For me, although I have lots of 645 lenses from 35mm to 500mm plus soft focus and tilt shift, the main priority was at eaither end. I wanted the wide coverage of the 35 and 45mm lenses and probably the 50mm shift as well AND I figured my 500mm would be nicer with an effective f4 aperture for motorsport etc.
This is test day 1. I received it when I'd already packed my kit. I was also testing Minolta Rokkor 35mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.2 lenses on the GFX so I just chucked it in my bag which held the Mamiya 645 80mm f2.8 and 150mm f2.8.
I have been using a Fotodiox tilt shift adapter with the GFX and Mamiya 645 lenses so that's my unaltered setup. The comparison with the Focal Reducer meant I should move back or forward to approximate the FOV of each setup. I shot wide open and 2 stops down for each in B&W.
Shot on a light weight tripod but without a cable release or timer: I just pressed the button.
Here's one from the Mamiya 80mm f2.8 set at f5.6. The other will follow. I'm not going to say which is using the focal reducer; you can guess.
I've resized but didn't add sharpness at all to the images: they're as they came out of the camera in jpeg mode.
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Kia Kaha
Given I'd used a Metabones focal reducer for Sony A to Sony E with great results, I just took the plunge and dived in on the Kipon.
Yes, it's expensive but what's an extra stop of light worth to you? What's it worth to use the full coverage of your wide angle lenses rather than have them act like longer lenses?
For me, although I have lots of 645 lenses from 35mm to 500mm plus soft focus and tilt shift, the main priority was at eaither end. I wanted the wide coverage of the 35 and 45mm lenses and probably the 50mm shift as well AND I figured my 500mm would be nicer with an effective f4 aperture for motorsport etc.
This is test day 1. I received it when I'd already packed my kit. I was also testing Minolta Rokkor 35mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.2 lenses on the GFX so I just chucked it in my bag which held the Mamiya 645 80mm f2.8 and 150mm f2.8.
I have been using a Fotodiox tilt shift adapter with the GFX and Mamiya 645 lenses so that's my unaltered setup. The comparison with the Focal Reducer meant I should move back or forward to approximate the FOV of each setup. I shot wide open and 2 stops down for each in B&W.
Shot on a light weight tripod but without a cable release or timer: I just pressed the button.
Here's one from the Mamiya 80mm f2.8 set at f5.6. The other will follow. I'm not going to say which is using the focal reducer; you can guess.
I've resized but didn't add sharpness at all to the images: they're as they came out of the camera in jpeg mode.
--
Kia Kaha
idleidolidyll
Member
......and here's the other:
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Kia Kaha
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Kia Kaha
idleidolidyll
Member
As noted, I also shot with/without the focal reducer using the Mamiya 150mm f2.8 at f5.6. Here are those shots two in no special order..........
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Kia Kaha
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Kia Kaha
idleidolidyll
Member
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Kia Kaha
Yes, and there's one other thing that never ever saw mentioned. With the focal reducer, you also have a lot less stray light. When using larger format lenses on smaller lenses, the amount of light not falling on the sensor will have to bounce until absorved and this reduces contrast, often very significantly.
I am still hoping someone will invent cheaper large sensors, but until the focal reducers are the best next thing.
idleidolidyll
Member
One interesting feature noted by Kipon is that the Focal Reducer is designed to send light rays at straighter angles than the Mamiya lenses do on digital which is more in line with what std digital sensors require.
Ill check that claim out over the next week or so but t makes sense to design it specifically to suit the sensors best requirements
Ill check that claim out over the next week or so but t makes sense to design it specifically to suit the sensors best requirements
John Crowe
Veteran Member
You probably could have started a new thread for your comparison.
Not the greatest test subject to try and evaluate as one really needs some crisper details to evaluate.
This image is slightly sharper and does not have the slightly compressed view of the other so I would say this is the unreduced version.
I am quite surprised how close they are. Without spending too much more time on this, I think the softer appearance of bokeh in the other image may be an improvement though.
Not the greatest test subject to try and evaluate as one really needs some crisper details to evaluate.
This image is slightly sharper and does not have the slightly compressed view of the other so I would say this is the unreduced version.
I am quite surprised how close they are. Without spending too much more time on this, I think the softer appearance of bokeh in the other image may be an improvement though.
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