More than just Ebay is gouging the price of X100V

johncecilian said:

I have used MPB many times and found them to be totally reputable and fair in both buying and selling used gear. However, I note that they are now selling a like new condition X100V for $1609. Of course as most of you know the retail price for a new one if you could find it would be 1399. So generally speaking that greatly irritates my sensibilities. I expect that kind of conduct from EBay sellers but not from this company. Maybe I am just naive perhaps.

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Supply and Demand...nothing more needs to be said.

Yep. Fully agree with you. When they first started out i used them to buy and sell. They were very good back when and offered more than E-Bay , a lot more. I recently asked for a price for stuff i no longer used. Lets say i have now gone back to E-Bay. They must now employ capitalist accountants.

Depends on the price they paid the seller.

shaocaholica said:

Like I said before Fuji doesn't make additional profit on the inflated secondary market prices. There's no financial reason for Fuji to hold back units. Reasons other than financial are just conspiracy. Good ol' camera industry conspiracy.

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I don't know how familiar you are with how luxury brands create their brands. I been working ALL my life in advertising and know a thing or two about it.

I never said Fuji is holding back the X100 for financial reasons” obviously only scalpers are making a profit. This is all about all brand reputation.

Rolex basic Oyster retail is $6000. Good luck finding one for less than $15,000. Could Rolex make more to meet the demand? Obviously.

Supreme limited edition T-shirts? 400 bucks when you can find them.

When Swatch released the Omega Moonwatch collaboration last year it had a retail of $250. Swatch decided to limit availability and let scalpers make huge profits, selling them 4-times its retail price.

$1000 for a watch that probably cost 10 bucks to make and people bought them.

Next X100 will have a retail price around $1750 and nobody is going to complain about it.

Foskito said:

shaocaholica said:

Like I said before Fuji doesn't make additional profit on the inflated secondary market prices. There's no financial reason for Fuji to hold back units. Reasons other than financial are just conspiracy. Good ol' camera industry conspiracy.

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I don't know how familiar you are with how luxury brands create their brands. I been working ALL my life in advertising and know a thing or two about it.

I never said Fuji is holding back the X100 for financial reasons” obviously only scalpers are making a profit. This is all about all brand reputation.

Rolex basic Oyster retail is $6000. Good luck finding one for less than $15,000. Could Rolex make more to meet the demand? Obviously.

Supreme limited edition T-shirts? 400 bucks when you can find them.

When Swatch released the Omega Moonwatch collaboration last year it had a retail of $250. Swatch decided to limit availability and let scalpers make huge profits, selling them 4-times its retail price.

$1000 for a watch that probably cost 10 bucks to make and people bought them.

Next X100 will have a retail price around $1750 and nobody is going to complain about it.

Click to expand...

I don’t believe it will, and putting it in bold text does not strengthen your assertion, nor make your other points more credible. You don’t work for Fuji.

If you look at Fuji’s pricing policy across their ranges, including the medium format models, they are careful to position them reasonably against a variety of competitors, not as a luxury brand. This is not their market approach and your examples are not in anyway representative of their marketing. They make cameras for the hobby and pro markets, and in no way are they promoting these based on luxury, aspiration or fashion.

For the 100th time, Fujifilm have done nothing to stimulate the wild pricing of used X100 models. I believe that the next version, when it arrives, will be fairly priced for whatever bells, whistles and gadgets which it incorporates.

j tokarz said:

Yep. Fully agree with you. When they first started out i used them to buy and sell. They were very good back when and offered more than E-Bay , a lot more. I recently asked for a price for stuff i no longer used. Lets say i have now gone back to E-Bay. They must now employ capitalist accountants.

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As opposed to charity accountants?

So Fuji rumors had a post yesterday, that Fuji is “Cracking down on some retailers taking unfair advantage of the limited availability of Instax film. The significant part of the press release related to my thread here is this:

Recently, our company found that some officially authorized stores are out of stock. Other unofficial authorized stores take the opportunity to sell photo paper at high prices, which violates the rights of consumers and our company’s goodwill.

Logic would suggest to me that they cannot be happy about unofficial retailers or others gouging pricing on the X100V. And just as I initially mentioned. There is goodwill involved with a company charging too much and overcharging for sure. So dont know what they can do but clearly it is a “thing” unlike some of the commenters in this thread. Goodwill means something and a retailer that is charging way over list for an item is losing that goodwill from my perspective. And to make it clear, those who insist on saying or asking things like, well what would you charge are just missing the point. No matter how you want to slice it, MPB is a retailer, they deal in a retail environment. And they should be aware that this kind of pricing can irritate their regular customers. A private individual can charge whatever the market will bear but not so much on a retailer who presumably relies on valued customers, return business, etc

johncecilian said:

1. johncecilian wrote:

So Fuji rumors had a post yesterday, that Fuji is “Cracking down on some retailers taking unfair advantage of the limited availability of Instax film. The significant part of the press release related to my thread here is this:

Recently, our company found that some officially authorized stores are out of stock. Other unofficial authorized stores take the opportunity to sell photo paper at high prices, which violates the rights of consumers and our company’s goodwill.

Logic would suggest to me that they cannot be happy about unofficial retailers or others gouging pricing on the X100V. And just as I initially mentioned. There is goodwill involved with a company charging too much and overcharging for sure. So dont know what they can do but clearly it is a “thing” unlike some of the commenters in this thread. Goodwill means something and a retailer that is charging way over list for an item is losing that goodwill from my perspective. And to make it clear, those who insist on saying or asking things like, well what would you charge are just missing the point. No matter how you want to slice it, MPB is a retailer, they deal in a retail environment. And they should be aware that this kind of pricing can irritate their regular customers. A private individual can charge whatever the market will bear but not so much on a retailer who presumably relies on valued customers, return business, etc

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Yep. I read it on Fuji Rumors. Thanks for sharing it here as a very informative addition to this ‘debate’ with respect to Fujifilm’s policies and approach to their customers.

johncecilian said:

So Fuji rumors had a post yesterday, that Fuji is “Cracking down on some retailers taking unfair advantage of the limited availability of Instax film. The significant part of the press release related to my thread here is this:

Recently, our company found that some officially authorized stores are out of stock. Other unofficial authorized stores take the opportunity to sell photo paper at high prices, which violates the rights of consumers and our company’s goodwill.

Logic would suggest to me that they cannot be happy about unofficial retailers or others gouging pricing on the X100V. And just as I initially mentioned. There is goodwill involved with a company charging too much and overcharging for sure. So dont know what they can do but clearly it is a “thing” unlike some of the commenters in this thread. Goodwill means something and a retailer that is charging way over list for an item is losing that goodwill from my perspective. And to make it clear, those who insist on saying or asking things like, well what would you charge are just missing the point. No matter how you want to slice it, MPB is a retailer, they deal in a retail environment. And they should be aware that this kind of pricing can irritate their regular customers. A private individual can charge whatever the market will bear but not so much on a retailer who presumably relies on valued customers, return business, etc

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You’ve continually missed the distinction between an authorized dealer, that pays Fuji dealer cost, which offers a standard retail margin when sold at MSRP, versus a dealer buying in the secondary market, where the costs they pay reflect the current supply constraints and high levels of demand. You seem to think they should simply accept a much smaller margin than normal due to unusual market circumstances, and transfer that value to their buyers.

Foskito said:

shaocaholica said:

Like I said before Fuji doesn't make additional profit on the inflated secondary market prices. There's no financial reason for Fuji to hold back units. Reasons other than financial are just conspiracy. Good ol' camera industry conspiracy.

Click to expand...

I don't know how familiar you are with how luxury brands create their brands. I been working ALL my life in advertising and know a thing or two about it.

I never said Fuji is holding back the X100 for financial reasons” obviously only scalpers are making a profit. This is all about all brand reputation.

Rolex basic Oyster retail is $6000. Good luck finding one for less than $15,000. Could Rolex make more to meet the demand? Obviously.

Supreme limited edition T-shirts? 400 bucks when you can find them.

When Swatch released the Omega Moonwatch collaboration last year it had a retail of $250. Swatch decided to limit availability and let scalpers make huge profits, selling them 4-times its retail price.

$1000 for a watch that probably cost 10 bucks to make and people bought them.

Next X100 will have a retail price around $1750 and nobody is going to complain about it.

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I don’t believe Fuji is a luxury brand or wants to be one.

So I impulse bought a X100V back in January fully intending to keep it but ended up over extending and needed the money so I sold it just now. Yes I'm the bad guy but I did start my listing at $99. It just sold now for US$1930. You'd think I just scalped US$531! But no. After fees I made a whopping US$98.57. That's a gain of +6.3% of my initial spend.

RobRoy22 said:

Foskito said:

shaocaholica said:

Like I said before Fuji doesn't make additional profit on the inflated secondary market prices. There's no financial reason for Fuji to hold back units. Reasons other than financial are just conspiracy. Good ol' camera industry conspiracy.

Click to expand...

I don't know how familiar you are with how luxury brands create their brands. I been working ALL my life in advertising and know a thing or two about it.

I never said Fuji is holding back the X100 for financial reasons” obviously only scalpers are making a profit. This is all about all brand reputation.

Rolex basic Oyster retail is $6000. Good luck finding one for less than $15,000. Could Rolex make more to meet the demand? Obviously.

Supreme limited edition T-shirts? 400 bucks when you can find them.

When Swatch released the Omega Moonwatch collaboration last year it had a retail of $250. Swatch decided to limit availability and let scalpers make huge profits, selling them 4-times its retail price.

$1000 for a watch that probably cost 10 bucks to make and people bought them.

Next X100 will have a retail price around $1750 and nobody is going to complain about it.

Click to expand...

I don’t believe it will, and putting it in bold text does not strengthen your assertion, nor make your other points more credible. You don’t work for Fuji.

If you look at Fuji’s pricing policy across their ranges, including the medium format models, they are careful to position them reasonably against a variety of competitors, not as a luxury brand. This is not their market approach and your examples are not in anyway representative of their marketing. They make cameras for the hobby and pro markets, and in no way are they promoting these based on luxury, aspiration or fashion.

For the 100th time, Fujifilm have done nothing to stimulate the wild pricing of used X100 models. I believe that the next version, when it arrives, will be fairly priced for whatever bells, whistles and gadgets which it incorporates.

Click to expand...

AFAIK neither you nor Foskito are Fuji employees so it's strange for you to dismiss his predictions on that basis and then offer your own.

While I think Foskito's estimated price is high, I think the logic behind it is sound- far more so than your appeal to authority fallacy.

1 for all intents and purposes the X100V is priced like a luxury product. It is 40% more expensive than its next most direct competitor, the GR III. Heck, it is more expensive than than a freaking Leica D-Lux 7. The high resale values speak to its potential pricing power.

2 X100 prices have crept up with each generation, albeit not by more than $100 each time. However in these inflationary times that could easily change... I would not be surprised if the next X100 launched at $1599 or so. If they throw the 40MP sensor in then Foskito's estimated price might be on target.

I do think he is wrong that people won't complain as people will literally complain about anything. But the fact that X100Vs are trading hands at over MSRP means a new one will sell just fine at a higher price.

IMO ultimately if someone isn't in the market for an X100V it's really not worth getting heartburn over. The existence of things we can't afford or don't see value in does not have a direct negative impact on our lives.

shaocaholica said:

It just sold now for US$1930. You'd think I just scalped US$531! But no. After fees I made a whopping US$98.57.

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Crumbs

This is why I only sell when they send me the 80% fee discount

sportyaccordy said:

RobRoy22 said:

Foskito said:

shaocaholica said:

Like I said before Fuji doesn't make additional profit on the inflated secondary market prices. There's no financial reason for Fuji to hold back units. Reasons other than financial are just conspiracy. Good ol' camera industry conspiracy.

Click to expand...

I don't know how familiar you are with how luxury brands create their brands. I been working ALL my life in advertising and know a thing or two about it.

I never said Fuji is holding back the X100 for financial reasons” obviously only scalpers are making a profit. This is all about all brand reputation.

Rolex basic Oyster retail is $6000. Good luck finding one for less than $15,000. Could Rolex make more to meet the demand? Obviously.

Supreme limited edition T-shirts? 400 bucks when you can find them.

When Swatch released the Omega Moonwatch collaboration last year it had a retail of $250. Swatch decided to limit availability and let scalpers make huge profits, selling them 4-times its retail price.

$1000 for a watch that probably cost 10 bucks to make and people bought them.

Next X100 will have a retail price around $1750 and nobody is going to complain about it.

Click to expand...

I don’t believe it will, and putting it in bold text does not strengthen your assertion, nor make your other points more credible. You don’t work for Fuji.

If you look at Fuji’s pricing policy across their ranges, including the medium format models, they are careful to position them reasonably against a variety of competitors, not as a luxury brand. This is not their market approach and your examples are not in anyway representative of their marketing. They make cameras for the hobby and pro markets, and in no way are they promoting these based on luxury, aspiration or fashion.

For the 100th time, Fujifilm have done nothing to stimulate the wild pricing of used X100 models. I believe that the next version, when it arrives, will be fairly priced for whatever bells, whistles and gadgets which it incorporates.

Click to expand...

AFAIK neither you nor Foskito are Fuji employees so it's strange for you to dismiss his predictions on that basis and then offer your own.

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sportyaccordy said:

While I think Foskito's estimated price is high, I think the logic behind it is sound- far more so than your appeal to authority fallacy.

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Ha ha. Your opinion trumps mine how exactly?

sportyaccordy said:

1 for all intents and purposes the X100V is priced like a luxury product.

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At £1349 it is priced as a well-featured camera, not as a luxury item.

sportyaccordy said:

It is 40% more expensive than its next most direct competitor, the GR III. Heck, it is more expensive than than a freaking Leica D-Lux 7. The high resale values speak to its potential pricing power.

2 X100 prices have crept up with each generation, albeit not by more than $100 each time. However in these inflationary times that could easily change... I would not be surprised if the next X100 launched at $1599 or so. If they throw the 40MP sensor in then Foskito's estimated price might be on target.

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IF… If… and If again. It hasn’t been released and you are doubling down and asserting the same points.

sportyaccordy said:

I do think he is wrong that people won't complain as people will literally complain about anything. But the fact that X100Vs are trading hands at over MSRP means a new one will sell just fine at a higher price.
IMO ultimately if someone isn't in the market for an X100V it's really not worth getting heartburn over. The existence of things we can't afford or don't see value in does not have a direct negative impact on our lives.

--
Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/

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X100V among other Fuji cameras are too complicated to be luxury class. They are nerd class and nerds will pay more. People who consider cameras to be luxury items are not buying Fuji.

RobRoy22 said:

sportyaccordy said:

AFAIK neither you nor Foskito are Fuji employees so it's strange for you to dismiss his predictions on that basis and then offer your own.

While I think Foskito's estimated price is high, I think the logic behind it is sound- far more so than your appeal to authority fallacy.

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Ha ha. Your opinion trumps mine how exactly?

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It doesn't. That's my point. We are all just speculating here. So saying Foskito's speculations are wrong because he's not affiliated with Fuji, then coming back with your own equally unsubstantiated speculations as what will happen just seems hypocritical.

RobRoy22 said:

RobRoy22 said:

1 for all intents and purposes the X100V is priced like a luxury product.

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At £1349 it is priced as a well-featured camera, not as a luxury item.

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That's your opinion. I've provided a more objective explanation as to why it isn't.

RobRoy22 said:

RobRoy22 said:

It is 40% more expensive than its next most direct competitor, the GR III. Heck, it is more expensive than than a freaking Leica D-Lux 7. The high resale values speak to its potential pricing power.

2 X100 prices have crept up with each generation, albeit not by more than $100 each time. However in these inflationary times that could easily change... I would not be surprised if the next X100 launched at $1599 or so. If they throw the 40MP sensor in then Foskito's estimated price might be on target.

Click to expand...

IF… If… and If again. It hasn’t been released and you are doubling down and asserting the same points.

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As were you in asserting that "the next version, when it arrives, will be fairly priced for whatever bells, whistles and gadgets which it incorporates." But your assertions hinge on arbitrary qualifiers you haven't defined, like "fair" vs "luxury" pricing, Fuji's "market approach" and other terms that sound good but don't mean much. I'm at least using actual history and data to speak to what Fuji might do next.

RobRoy22 said:

RobRoy22 said:

I do think he is wrong that people won't complain as people will literally complain about anything. But the fact that X100Vs are trading hands at over MSRP means a new one will sell just fine at a higher price.
IMO ultimately if someone isn't in the market for an X100V it's really not worth getting heartburn over. The existence of things we can't afford or don't see value in does not have a direct negative impact on our lives.

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Just chatted with a Fuji store and they are saying a wave of x100v’s are on the way.



100% not releasing a new x100v anytime soon according to the rep. So taking him at his word, we should be seeing the camera back on the shelves shortly.

RustyRus said:

Just chatted with a Fuji store and they are saying a wave of x100v’s are on the way.

100% not releasing a new x100v anytime soon according to the rep. So taking him at his word, we should be seeing the camera back on the shelves shortly.

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Hey now that rumor is market manipulation

eBay Is a competitive auction site with fully transparent historic sales information to all parties.

if somebody wants to list a widget for 5,000% more than MSRP, they can do it. It will sell or it won’t. If it sells, a buyer is happy and a seller is happy. If it doesn’t sell the seller lowers the price until it does.

gouging?