My real world experiences with mft and FF

You have some good lenses and cameras! I wish I could afford to have m43 and the Panasonic S5. I love Olympus colors and the smaller size of the lenses. I have been switching back and forth between the Olympus and the S5.

I would love to see your pictures taken with both cameras. :)
Here are some of my faves found in my phone from both mft and FF, in absolutely no order - sorry for the mess 😃 (The girl in the pics is my 3yo daughter)

ab3576e50162440682466a9d2ff8fb83.jpg
This picture is a perfect example of too shallow DoF. I presume you must like it, however for me there are two areas in focus, which make it difficult to enjoy it. It is not my kind of pizza.
While I usually don’t want that thin DoF, sometimes it creates dreamlike and almost surreal atmosphere, which can be desirable and which I tried to demonstrate with this example. It is not so easily achievable with mft, and I find it very nice effect if used rarely.
Totally agree! I love this picture! You definitely can't say that it has a "snapshot" look.

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Robbie
Explorer, Dad, Husband, and Picture Taker
www.flickr.com/rvaughn
www.robvaughnphoto.com
 
You have some good lenses and cameras! I wish I could afford to have m43 and the Panasonic S5. I love Olympus colors and the smaller size of the lenses. I have been switching back and forth between the Olympus and the S5.

I would love to see your pictures taken with both cameras. :)
Here are some of my faves found in my phone from both mft and FF, in absolutely no order - sorry for the mess 😃 (The girl in the pics is my 3yo daughter)

ab3576e50162440682466a9d2ff8fb83.jpg
This picture is a perfect example of too shallow DoF. I presume you must like it, however for me there are two areas in focus, which make it difficult to enjoy it. It is not my kind of pizza.
While I usually don’t want that thin DoF, sometimes it creates dreamlike and almost surreal atmosphere, which can be desirable and which I tried to demonstrate with this example. It is not so easily achievable with mft, and I find it very nice effect if used rarely.
MFT and portraiture with shallow DoF is far from being a perfect match. It just not my type of photography.

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Although Canon R6 beat Sony A9II, it was OM-1 which defeated Canon R6 ;-)
My photoblog http://justimpress.me
 
I remember that back in the day many photogs used to have a Polaroid camera that allowed them to check if a shot worked before they went through the hassle of using their Hasselblad.

That's the way I see m43rds and FF in the real world with the added benefit that m43rds can actually deliver more than usable shots for most subjects.
 
Hi everyone:

I too am considering between MFT and FF and I couldn't help but noticed some of the MFT samples posted on here seemed a bit blotchy at times and details could have been better resolved. Am I being deceived by webpage compression or I need my eyes checked, or better yet, visit the crazy house?
 
Shooting with FF equipment is easy, smooth and the results are excellent. Still, the advantages compared to smaller sensor are not as clear in real life as they are on paper. Of course, the AF focusing in my Canon is in a class of its own, but on the other hand, it sure has to be when we are often talking about a rather narrow DoF.

Which brings us to the actual point. For example, last time I shot wedding in a dim church, and especially when shooting in an even darker party place with a full-frame, I often had to reduce the aperture so that the depth of field was not too narrow. This means that the ISO value had to be raised. With the mft equipment, I can shoot wide open without worry, because DoF corresponds to twice as small FF aperture.

So, for example, with the RF 70-200/2.8, I often had to reduce the aperture to f5.6 in order to have everything needed in focus, while with the mft I would have ended up with the same at f2.8. But with at a lower ISO.
...if you have to shoot the same DOF and exposure time, you do give up the noise advantage that FF would otherwise have. However, shooting the same DOF and exposure time on FF as mFT doesn't put FF at a disadvantage.

For example, let's say you needed f/5.6 to get the desired DOF and 1/200 to mitigate motion blur with FF and you could get the same using f/2.8 1/200 on mFT. So you shot your R6 using, say, 100mm f/5.6 1/200 ISO 6400 whereas you would have used 50mm f/2.8 1/200 ISO 1600 on your OM1. Neither enjoys an advantage over the other, with regards to noise, DOF, and motion blur with these settings.
Of course, with FF, I can get narrower DoF when needed. How important is it? Not much for me, I usually want a bit of context around the subject. Sure, when I want it, I do have FF.
For sure, if your typical use of FF is with the same DOF and exposure time as with mFT, then the noise advantage of FF will be lost.
My point is, that I have noticed many times that in real life situations mft is at least as usable as FF for me. And nowdays when AI softwares like Topaz Denoise etc. are getting better and better, it is reducing the sensor size difference even more.
The sensor size difference is the same as always, it's just that the difference doesn't mean as much for as many people. For example, 100 HP vs 50 HP is a big deal. 200 HP vs 100 HP is still a big deal, but not as much. 400 HP vs 200 HP doesn't really matter for most people. And 800 HP vs 400 HP would only make a difference for a small minority, and, in terms of the analogy, I think that's where FF vs mFT is today.

In short, the difference between FF and mFT is the same as ever, but as we climb up the hardware/software ladder, the practical difference for the photography most people do becomes less and less relevant.
Every system is awesome these days.
For a fact!
If you enjoy shooting mft, remember there’s not much you miss from FF world at the end of the day. And you also definitely get some cool things FF is missing.
Here's the way I like to look at it: would you like a 35-100 / 1.4 for mFT? FF has the equivalent today. What about "just" a 35-100 / 2? FF has the equivalent today. ISO 25? FF has the equivalent today. How about 50 MP? FF has it today. Don't need any of it? Or would be interested but it's too big/heavy/expensive? Then for the most part, FF doesn't really have anything to offer you that mFT won't do nicely and even better, all at a smaller size, weight, and price.
 
my modern m43 cameras

epl 9

em1mii

G85 all handle light well, with the right lens can do most of what I need, and can give me more light than is given to my eyes.
 
Interesting post.

FF has an advantage when you want shallow DOF. I’m mainly shooting people with my 50 mm f1.4 and I don’t think I have stopped down aperture to less than 2.0f so far - so I’m firmly within a range MFT can’t offer most of the time.

I use MFT for tele. I think MFT is excellent for tele.
Using 50 F1.4 I would never see two kumite fighters in focus.
I wouldn’t want to get so close to them with my 50 mm - would probably use tele for that.
I specially purchased a 50 1.4 for kumite when I still had the Nikon D800, or 35mm for a little wider view. Now I use the 50 1.8Z on the Z7. My idea is to melt the spectators, advertisements and officials away as far as possible and up the shutter speed as I also was often at the limits of the D800 ISO. Nikon Z7 can go a bit higher and I use that to up the shutter speed, not aperture. EM1 v1 with 12-40 2.8 did not do bad, but I eventually stuck with ff for the blur. I had the mf voigtlander 0.95, and if that lens was af, I might have stayed with m43. The 1.2 Oly lenses came after I switched back to ff. The 17 1.8 and 25 1.8 Oly lenses also did OK. I gave that to my backup shooter on large events. But the ff difference is visible: 1. the blur, and 2. dynamic range. Maybe the OM1 improves 2 now, I would not know.

At ff f1.4 or 1.8, I usually pick one of the two contestants to be in focus. The other one is just to give context, while the large aperture helps blur distractive backgrounds away.

I have access to sit close to the tatami, though. If I sat on the stand with other spectators, I would have used the 40-150 2.8 for compact size, but that effect I look for will be lost.
 
At ff f1.4 or 1.8, I usually pick one of the two contestants to be in focus. The other one is just to give context, while the large aperture helps blur distractive backgrounds away.

I have access to sit close to the tatami, though. If I sat on the stand with other spectators, I would have used the 40-150 2.8 for compact size, but that effect I look for will be lost.
Cannot agree more with the idea of a fighter separated during kumite. FF F2.8 in this regard is to deep for one, and too shallow for both, unless both are close to each other.
I used to have fast primes, but I do not like zooming with my legs. As far as being close to tatami, I always negotiate, since the perspective from the stands is not acceptable. Once I was allowed to use pretty strong flash with beauty dish, to my surprise. Still cannot understand how it did happen.

I am far from bashing full frame for no reason. I am just delighted with PL F1.7 MFT zooms, which have no FF real equivalent. Any F4 zoom such as 24-105 does not come close in terms of poor light. So for me, within a FL of 20-300 MFT offers spectacular solutions for my needs.
 
You have some good lenses and cameras! I wish I could afford to have m43 and the Panasonic S5. I love Olympus colors and the smaller size of the lenses. I have been switching back and forth between the Olympus and the S5.

I would love to see your pictures taken with both cameras. :)
Here are some of my faves found in my phone from both mft and FF, in absolutely no order - sorry for the mess 😃 (The girl in the pics is my 3yo daughter)

2e7fe575319f4100a4bc11663e3f6db2.jpg

ab3576e50162440682466a9d2ff8fb83.jpg
This is why i do not like full frame for general use and stopped using it a while back. The blur is just too much . The top picture is wonderful and wouldve been better if the background trees were not blurred like that. Bokeh for the sake of bokeh is for amateurs. Not saying you are but just pointing it out.



for me the happy medium is Fuji X line. Perfect balance of size, IQ, and bokeh
 
I keep hearing that repeated recently, over and over again. Everyone can have a specific case usages and repeating such lines doesn't address that.

I keep hearing about great PP software and how Noise don't matter. Even for those using FF. Well noise still does matter for certain users, not so much for others.

Everyone's ability to use different Sensor Size will vary, so there is no One Shoe fits all analogies. That a huge problem in today's Photography talk.

MFTs is attractive to me because of the REACH and class leading IBIS. All this other talk is mostly fringe case usages at times. Nothing can beat better REACH in decent light along with stellar IBIS which all opens more doors.
 
To be fair, you can just close the aperture more on FF if you need or want more DoF. Shallow DoF is not inherent to the format.
 
I keep hearing that repeated recently, over and over again. Everyone can have a specific case usages and repeating such lines doesn't address that.

I keep hearing about great PP software and how Noise don't matter. Even for those using FF. Well noise still does matter for certain users, not so much for others.

Everyone's ability to use different Sensor Size will vary, so there is no One Shoe fits all analogies. That a huge problem in today's Photography talk.

MFTs is attractive to me because of the REACH and class leading IBIS. All this other talk is mostly fringe case usages at times. Nothing can beat better REACH in decent light along with stellar IBIS which all opens more doors.
Maybe you keep hearing that because it’s true? If you buy a new car, in 99% of the cases normal car will do the trick. If you need a ferrari, then buy one. If you need a van, buy one. Still 99% don’t need.

Mft is totally enough for 99% of photographers. Even most professional cases. I should know since I have countless customers who pay for me photos taken with mft. Special needs requires special gear, obviously, but this discussion is not about that.
 
I keep hearing that repeated recently, over and over again. Everyone can have a specific case usages and repeating such lines doesn't address that.

I keep hearing about great PP software and how Noise don't matter. Even for those using FF. Well noise still does matter for certain users, not so much for others.

Everyone's ability to use different Sensor Size will vary, so there is no One Shoe fits all analogies. That a huge problem in today's Photography talk.

MFTs is attractive to me because of the REACH and class leading IBIS. All this other talk is mostly fringe case usages at times. Nothing can beat better REACH in decent light along with stellar IBIS which all opens more doors.
Maybe you keep hearing that because it’s true? If you buy a new car, in 99% of the cases normal car will do the trick. If you need a ferrari, then buy one. If you need a van, buy one. Still 99% don’t need.

Mft is totally enough for 99% of photographers. Even most professional cases. I should know since I have countless customers who pay for me photos taken with mft. Special needs requires special gear, obviously, but this discussion is not about that.
No, humans seem to love repeating what everyone else states, regardless of whether it's true or not.

A ferrari vs normal car? How about a car vs a SUV. A car vs a gas drinking truck. Yet I do believe the most sold vehicles are trucks in the USA. With one person likely the driver, and zero cargo in the back.

People really don't care whom pays you for what, they only care about what works for them. Their own case usages. Which again, can vary greatly, sometimes by a Ton. If one doesn't have special needs, they will likely just use their Phone, and it's good enough for some, quality.
 
I keep hearing that repeated recently, over and over again. Everyone can have a specific case usages and repeating such lines doesn't address that.

I keep hearing about great PP software and how Noise don't matter. Even for those using FF. Well noise still does matter for certain users, not so much for others.

Everyone's ability to use different Sensor Size will vary, so there is no One Shoe fits all analogies. That a huge problem in today's Photography talk.

MFTs is attractive to me because of the REACH and class leading IBIS. All this other talk is mostly fringe case usages at times. Nothing can beat better REACH in decent light along with stellar IBIS which all opens more doors.
Maybe you keep hearing that because it’s true? If you buy a new car, in 99% of the cases normal car will do the trick. If you need a ferrari, then buy one. If you need a van, buy one. Still 99% don’t need.

Mft is totally enough for 99% of photographers. Even most professional cases. I should know since I have countless customers who pay for me photos taken with mft. Special needs requires special gear, obviously, but this discussion is not about that.
No, humans seem to love repeating what everyone else states, regardless of whether it's true or not.

A ferrari vs normal car? How about a car vs a SUV. A car vs a gas drinking truck. Yet I do believe the most sold vehicles are trucks in the USA. With one person likely the driver, and zero cargo in the back.

People really don't care whom pays you for what, they only care about what works for them. Their own case usages. Which again, can vary greatly, sometimes by a Ton. If one doesn't have special needs, they will likely just use their Phone, and it's good enough for some, quality.
I don’t know about brick wall tests, since I don’t do - or read - them, but this topic was about real world experiences. If one needs special tool for special job, by all means, but it is an exception, not the rule.

All camera systems can do basically anything (exceptions excluded obviously), if you know how to use them. With mft, apsc or FF you can do portraiture, product photography, landscapes, macro, sports, wildlife, you name it.

Sports in dim light? FF might be better. Macro? Definitely mft. Product shots? Maybe medium format (btw, mft can do 80mpix static pics nowdays). Wildlife? I would go with mft. Bokeh? Definitely FF. The thing is, you can do any of these with any system. They just have different advantages and disadvantages.
 
I enjoy my full frame RF system, but I 100% agree that it's not an across-the-board better system. One of the bigger drawbacks for me is depth of field. I understand the differences between the 2 systems based off sensor size and lens speed, but it's a bigger issue for me than I thought, and I might have actually gone for an APS C system, or even a new OM1 body, instead of full frame, had I known.

I still like the size and button control better on my M43 system. I think the lenses are sharper from center to edge, But they should be given the smaller size of the M43 system. I'm also not a pixel paper and I tried to shoot JPEG and get the shot right, so I find the M43 system to be more than sufficient for 95% of my needs. I shut indoor swimming for almost a decade with no issues with it, and if it can handle that, it can likely handle anything I'll ever need it to do.

I'll get an OM1 body later this year most likely, because I realized I'm still going to shoot with this system more than the RF system, and Given the IQ and smaller size of the system, I think it's a relative bargain. Plus I have all the fast pro lenses already, whereas I'm still building my RF system. And they still don't offer certain RF lenses I would like, and I don't want to adapt EF.
 
I enjoy my full frame RF system, but I 100% agree that it's not an across-the-board better system. One of the bigger drawbacks for me is depth of field. I understand the differences between the 2 systems based off sensor size and lens speed, but it's a bigger issue for me than I thought, and I might have actually gone for an APS C system, or even a new OM1 body, instead of full frame, had I known.
I'm not sure I understand. What DOFs would you shoot with mFT that you wouldn't with FF? In the event that you need the same DOF and exposure times, you simply loose the noise advantage of FF, but FF is not at a disadvantage, nor is it any harder to use, say, 100mm f/16 1/400 ISO 6400 on FF than 50mm f/8 1/400 ISO 1600 on mFT.

Of course, like I said, should we require the same DOF and exposure time with FF as we would use with mFT, FF would have to sacrifice the noise advantage it would otherwise have had. And, if you would typically shoot FF with the same DOF and exposure time as mFT, well, that pretty much negates any advantage that FF might have for you, so mFT would most likely be the better choice.
 
I keep hearing that repeated recently, over and over again. Everyone can have a specific case usages and repeating such lines doesn't address that.

I keep hearing about great PP software and how Noise don't matter. Even for those using FF. Well noise still does matter for certain users, not so much for others.

Everyone's ability to use different Sensor Size will vary, so there is no One Shoe fits all analogies. That a huge problem in today's Photography talk.

MFTs is attractive to me because of the REACH and class leading IBIS. All this other talk is mostly fringe case usages at times.
Nothing can beat better REACH in decent light along with stellar IBIS which all opens more doors.
but now Fuji and Canon have APS-C cameras with the same or better reach

Peter
 
I realized I hadn't specifically stated the greater dof works to my advantage with m43. So in many cases FF isn't a benefit to me. Especially with the excellent stabilization on my omd's.
 
... if I had a bigger budget for photo gear that I might end up having some kind of larger format system in addition to my m43 stuff. As it is though, I find, as the OP stated, that m43 can be adaptable to just about any kind of photography and for me also has the advantages of being light and relatively inexpensive. A bigger format is always going to have better IQ, all things being equal, but for my money the state of tech is at a point where even m43 has such good IQ than even for work that's meant to be printed fairly large and have lots of detail, it can do the job...

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my flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/128435329@N08/
 
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