A Leica costs more because it’s ‘hand made’?

For me Leica has always had an "aura" of a status symbol. That said it its hard to quantify quality of one brand over another since we all (most) base our judgements on what we see online. However, I would love to have the current monochrome version. Some history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_Camera#History

dale
Everyone is different.

I couldn't imagine paying thousands of dollars for a camera that was only monochrome (B&W) capable.
Even though B&W is considered artsy by many, and good for select images, it's a technology that's been outdated for years.

Besides that, any full-featured camera is capable of producing monochrome, and post-processing programs can do wonders for the images. :-)

But, as I said, everyone is different.
 
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A Leica is an investment. They don't lose much value. If/when they need repair most can be repaired (so long as parts are available). They're "overbuilt" by design. Leica also doesn't release camera bodies on a whim or have many models. Leicas's are more about the lenses, than the bodies. That's an important distinction when you talk about Leica's.
Leica lenses are very good, but I don't see anyway to justify saying their digital cameras last longer than any other brand.

Internal parts are no better than those in any brand and are probably sourced for the same place.

I do agree old Leica mechanical cameras were bulletproof, but times have changed, and except for the body, I see almost no difference between Leica and other major brands.



But, as in all things, I could be wrong. :-D
 
Take a look at the numerous videos. Lots of people doing hand assembly; they're very proud of their plant and show it off.

They also do manufacturing, and you can see them cutting parts and so on.
If you go to a wristwatch manufacturing site you'll see them meticulously hand assembling a watch with craftmanship and care. However, in reality, they're machine made or mostly machine made. The videos are to give the mystique that they're all hand made to justify their $$$$$ price tags.

In the camera world there's Hasselblad doing what Leica does. Hand build everything. Whether it's true or not, we don't really know unless we work there. Truthfully, I'd rather have a machine built camera because there's consistency and I don't need to worry if the camera was hand built on a Friday afternoon with maybe the stress of a baby on the way. It's like my Jeep. I know it was made on a good day because there haven't been many problems with it. ;-)
Well, the independent reviews show people inside the Leica facility doing the work. They're not made by Leica, although they obviously allow access. It's not Leica content. You seem to imply it's fake marketing video; while it obviously serves a marketing purpose the videos are real.

I have no opinion whether this makes for a better camera, or if they're worth it, etc, but it does seem to be more than hype.
 
RE: >>Leica made their name by ‘made in Germany’ and the consistently high quality of their products.<<

And Leica deserves praise for keeping the German quality levels in the cameras and lenses they made in Midland, Ontario, Canada.

I had a body and several lenses.

BAK
 
For me Leica has always had an "aura" of a status symbol. That said it its hard to quantify quality of one brand over another since we all (most) base our judgements on what we see online. However, I would love to have the current monochrome version. Some history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_Camera#History

dale
Everyone is different.

I couldn't imagine paying thousands of dollars for a camera that was only monochrome (B&W) capable.
Even though B&W is considered artsy by many, and good for select images, it's a technology that's been outdated for years.

Besides that, any full-featured camera is capable of producing monochrome, and post-processing programs can do wonders for the images. :-)

But, as I said, everyone is different.
Indeed people are different. Some folks like to convert old cameras to monochrome for the 'obvious' gains.

 
Why would anyone want a egg cooker to last 40 years is beyond me. Never mind obsolescence . Don't you get tired of looking at it for 40 years. Plus, I am sure you have upgraded your kitchen or house a few levels above what you could afford 40 years ago.
I differ. If I have a device that still functions as I want it to, then despite age I still use it, and greatly value it for its longevity. I do not get tired of looking at any device that has served me reliably for 40 years, and still does so.

When I retired we moved, and 'upgraded' from an older tract home to an older but nicer mountain home. This home fits in with its mountain environment and our outdoor lifestyle. It is not high tech, but it is perfect for us. We place no stock in the concept of newer for the sake of newer.

Fortunately I was past any Leica mystique. My primary film system was Leica thread mount (LTM). Lesser than M mount, but far more affordable. I also acquired Canon bodies and lenses, which allowed me to mix and match Leica/Canon bodies and lenses. I found the Canon gear to be equal in all respects to the Leica gear (he said, knowing full well that such an utterance would be heresy in some quarters). In terms of feel, I could detect no difference. During the same period of these cameras being in production, Nikon were setting the bar extremely high with their rangefinder cameras. I always lusted after a Nikon rangefinder, but the price was always more than I cared to pay given that there was no interchangeability with my LTM equipment.

So for me I can't conclude that there was or is any difference between the best that Germany can produce and the best that Japan can produce.

With digital cameras, it is far too early to reach any definitive conclusions on long term reliability, especially given that most update to take advantage of technological advances. That said, I have several cameras dating back to 2009-2012 when I first converted to digital. I still use these, and have had no problems. I certainly do not get tired of looking at them and I value them for their (thus far) longevity.
 
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A Leica is an investment. They don't lose much value. If/when they need repair most can be repaired (so long as parts are available). They're "overbuilt" by design. Leica also doesn't release camera bodies on a whim or have many models. Leicas's are more about the lenses, than the bodies. That's an important distinction when you talk about Leica's.
Indeed Leica has always stressed lenses. Even in the 1950s Leica made the sharpest lenses as opposed to Zeiss who made the lenses with highest contrast. My 1950 vintage 50mm f/1.4 was definitely sharper than Nikon, Canon, or Asahi of the period. It even holds its own wide open relative to contemporary offerings. For example:

8a9af5e33a5148f5af7daa4b49a48559.jpg



--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
 

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For me Leica has always had an "aura" of a status symbol. That said it its hard to quantify quality of one brand over another since we all (most) base our judgements on what we see online. However, I would love to have the current monochrome version. Some history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_Camera#History

dale
Everyone is different.

I couldn't imagine paying thousands of dollars for a camera that was only monochrome (B&W) capable.
Even though B&W is considered artsy by many, and good for select images, it's a technology that's been outdated for years.
Outdated? Must have missed that :-)
Besides that, any full-featured camera is capable of producing monochrome, and post-processing programs can do wonders for the images. :-)
The missing Bayer filter has a significant impact on resolution. I would still own that Q2M if I had been able to explain owning that and a Q2 to my wife :-)
But, as I said, everyone is different.
 
Leica equipment cost more because people are willing to pay for the name, and because Leica is a German company.

Any mainstream product, made in Germany, is expensive.

We own a Mercedes SUV, not really any better than several vehicles made in Japan or Korea, but quite a bit more expensive.

I own a Braun Series 9 razor, the most expensive electric razor. Made in Germany.

Even a Braun made Oral-B electric toothbrush is probably more expensive than it should be.

Naturally, each of these products are some of the highest rated, but at the same time, expensive

It all goes back to the simple fact that unless you live in Germany, anything you buy that's made in Germany will be expensive. :-)
My Braun egg cooker is 40 years old. No way Asian product unless made by Seiko would last that long.
I live in Germany and i find that most of their tech is nonesense.

3 hours of washing time?? Great brains designed it.

Btw Japan made takumars are sold everywhere in good working conditions. They are from 60s.
 
Yeah, i read that too. Funny
 
For me Leica has always had an "aura" of a status symbol. That said it its hard to quantify quality of one brand over another since we all (most) base our judgements on what we see online. However, I would love to have the current monochrome version. Some history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_Camera#History

dale
Everyone is different.

I couldn't imagine paying thousands of dollars for a camera that was only monochrome (B&W) capable.
Even though B&W is considered artsy by many, and good for select images, it's a technology that's been outdated for years.
Outdated? Must have missed that :-)
Besides that, any full-featured camera is capable of producing monochrome, and post-processing programs can do wonders for the images. :-)
The missing Bayer filter has a significant impact on resolution. I would still own that Q2M if I had been able to explain owning that and a Q2 to my wife :-)
But, as I said, everyone is different.
I'm a firm believer, everyone should spend their money on anything they want to spend it on. I'm simply a person who wouldn't spend several thousand dollars on a camera that's only capable of producing monochrome images.

As far as my old technology comment goes, yes, B&W is one of the oldest photography mediums and much older than color, but I guess you're right that the term "outdated" is stretching it a bit because it's regained its popularity, over the years.

When it comes to an AA filter, I'm not sure what you mean. The Leica Q2 monochrome (and normal Q2) doesn't have a AA filter, but neither do several other cameras.

Please, don't get me wrong. I love prime lens cameras and think the Q2 is the best among them. I just don't see paying so much for a camera limited to monochrome.

And, once again, everything I say is only a personal opinion and I fully understand people disagreeing with me.
 
For me Leica has always had an "aura" of a status symbol. That said it its hard to quantify quality of one brand over another since we all (most) base our judgements on what we see online. However, I would love to have the current monochrome version. Some history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_Camera#History

dale
Everyone is different.

I couldn't imagine paying thousands of dollars for a camera that was only monochrome (B&W) capable.
Even though B&W is considered artsy by many, and good for select images, it's a technology that's been outdated for years.
Outdated? Must have missed that :-)
Besides that, any full-featured camera is capable of producing monochrome, and post-processing programs can do wonders for the images. :-)
The missing Bayer filter has a significant impact on resolution. I would still own that Q2M if I had been able to explain owning that and a Q2 to my wife :-)
But, as I said, everyone is different.
I'm a firm believer, everyone should spend their money on anything they want to spend it on. I'm simply a person who wouldn't spend several thousand dollars on a camera that's only capable of producing monochrome images.
It is a luxury, no question, to have such a camera and I felt the need to go back to one that can do color and B&W. But it was a great experience as it forces you to look at the world differently. Like the time when I shot B&W film.

But I am still doing 70% B&W.
As far as my old technology comment goes, yes, B&W is one of the oldest photography mediums and much older than color, but I guess you're right that the term "outdated" is stretching it a bit because it's regained its popularity, over the years.

When it comes to an AA filter, I'm not sure what you mean. The Leica Q2 monochrome (and normal Q2) doesn't have a AA filter, but neither do several other cameras.
From the Leica site:

The Leica Q2 Monochrom produces brilliant, exceptionally sharp images.

Unlike its chromatic counterparts, the monochrome sensor features no color filter array – with no interpolation required, only the pure light levels are captured and rendered sharper.

Additionally, this unique sensor also boasts significantly broader dynamic range and extremely low image noise, even at high ISOs up to 100,000.

Please, don't get me wrong. I love prime lens cameras and think the Q2 is the best among them. I just don't see paying so much for a camera limited to monochrome.

And, once again, everything I say is only a personal opinion and I fully understand people disagreeing with me.
 
Indeed Leica has always stressed lenses. Even in the 1950s Leica made the sharpest lenses as opposed to Zeiss who made the lenses with highest contrast. My 1950 vintage 50mm f/1.4 was definitely sharper than Nikon, Canon, or Asahi of the period. It even holds its own wide open relative to contemporary offerings. For example:

8a9af5e33a5148f5af7daa4b49a48559.jpg
Sure enough, you focused on the back row...
 
Indeed Leica has always stressed lenses. Even in the 1950s Leica made the sharpest lenses as opposed to Zeiss who made the lenses with highest contrast. My 1950 vintage 50mm f/1.4 was definitely sharper than Nikon, Canon, or Asahi of the period. It even holds its own wide open relative to contemporary offerings. For example:

8a9af5e33a5148f5af7daa4b49a48559.jpg
Sure enough, you focused on the back row...
Quite possibly. Leica range finder focus for fast moving dance can be difficult.

Easier example:

b9894c1491c84dc8888c667c842986f8.jpg

ab3e282421a14fd1a56506a3bf910f3e.jpg





23cea5dbe89247a481230bd872d70034.jpg














--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
 
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Quite possibly. Leica range finder focus for fast moving dance can be difficult.
Right. Since Leicas are basically jewelry, it's the process that matters, not the results. 🥂
I have been using Leica since the 1960s for serious photography work with hundreds of published images. Results mattered since for a few years it was my only camera.

Typical in those days

UofC theatre production 1970
UofC theatre production 1970

Barry Morse in Sluth for Theatre Calgary 1977
Barry Morse in Sluth for Theatre Calgary 1977

[ATTACH alt="Leica M2 at Uof Calgary rock concert used as a poster for a 1972 poster for "Country Musical Cavalcade" in Calgary Alberta"]3383055[/ATTACH]
Leica M2 at Uof Calgary rock concert used as a poster for a 1972 poster for "Country Musical Cavalcade" in Calgary Alberta

Etc,etc, etc. Lots of dance as well..

it was fun being a math/physics student in the 1960s and early 1970s

Hardly jewelry :-)

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
 

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This isn't about economics, it's marketing.

Leica would go bankrupt if they make cheap cameras because the typical Leica buyer doesn't want a cheap camera, it has to do with brand awareness and prestige.

Which is fine. People want expensive, luxurious objects to make them feel good about themselves, just don't lie about it. Don't say or imply that your digital cameras are "hand made" or stuff like that.

The best possible marketing slogan for Leica is also the most honest you can think off, buy a Leica to show that you can do what others can't.

"Buy a Leica- because you are better than others".

Simple as that.
 
This isn't about economics, it's marketing.

Leica would go bankrupt if they make cheap cameras because the typical Leica buyer doesn't want a cheap camera, it has to do with brand awareness and prestige.

Which is fine. People want expensive, luxurious objects to make them feel good about themselves, just don't lie about it. Don't say or imply that your digital cameras are "hand made" or stuff like that.

The best possible marketing slogan for Leica is also the most honest you can think off, buy a Leica to show that you can do what others can't.

"Buy a Leica- because you are better than others".

Simple as that.
Take a Sony A7R4 at launch price and add a lens that is roughly equivalent to the lens on the Q2 (that'll be the hard part). Then look at the price. You may want to reconsider your statement.
 
This isn't about economics, it's marketing.

Leica would go bankrupt if they make cheap cameras because the typical Leica buyer doesn't want a cheap camera, it has to do with brand awareness and prestige.

Which is fine. People want expensive, luxurious objects to make them feel good about themselves, just don't lie about it. Don't say or imply that your digital cameras are "hand made" or stuff like that.

The best possible marketing slogan for Leica is also the most honest you can think off, buy a Leica to show that you can do what others can't.

"Buy a Leica- because you are better than others".

Simple as that.
I don’t think they really need to say anything.

Leica needs to do little marketing. They offer expensive cameras, a long tradition, and a stable base. I have no idea as to motives and attitudes of those who purchase and carry them. The only Leicas I have ever handled were the rebadged Panny compacts, no true Leica. But the negative comments and derision from so many who do not own one seem oft driven by envy and jealousy. To the reader it speaks “I really want one. I deserve one”.

For Leica that represents mission accomplished; aura preserved and passions aroused toward an object of desire, and without spending a penny.

The users need not feel “I am better than you”. Some may. Far more prevalent are the nonusers who deep down crave that designation and display that very attitude through the comments.
 
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