2023 big year for Fuji?

yayatosorus said:

dgbarar said:

I think FujiFilm should figure out how to do video autofocus in 2023. They have a subject detect that is not reliable. Firmware 3.0 on the X-H2S is only a very modest improvement.

With all of FujiFilm’s talk prior to release of X-H2S about computational photography and AI I expected a world class video autofocusing product. They are not even close!

The solution is for FujiFilm film to first recognize that they are now at the bottom of all manufacturers with respect to video autofocus. Panasonic understood their position and are on the way up.

The X-H2S is FujiFilm’s shame!

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Oh please.

The X-T3 was once hyped as the best thing since sliced bread, and gradually became criticized for being borderline unusable.

Are we repeating that?

The X-H2S is by far Fuji's most advanced camera and based on the reports on this forum, its performance supports that.

If it is objectively inadequate for your specific requirements, which is entirely possible, then perhaps you should think about getting into a system that is adapted for your specific needs.

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Big +1. It seems as if we can always rely on someone employing exaggeration and hyperbole in this forum to describe their specific gripes, whether it be video, stills, AF, or most anything else. "Fujifilm's shame?" LOL.

"Oh please" indeed.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fuji Forum co-Mod

I do find the moaning about focus really wierd to be honest.

I bought the XT-5 without seeing anything about focus issues. Then used it for 2 months without any issues. Imagine my surprise when I read about Fuji's focus issues it apparently has?

Speaking generally and not having a pop at people here but how much of this is you tubers who need to go on a photography course and how much is real?

I am super happy with fuji with no issues is why I ask.

It is not just the X-H2S video autofocus that is now at the bottom of the pack, it is the overall ergonomics of the camera.

Fujifilm is a Japanese company and should well steeped in the manufacturing culture of Japan. One of these concepts is lean operations and attempting to eliminate as many wasted steps as possible. The Japanese even have a name for this--muda or waste.

Yet, there are so many double and triple steps one needs to make in order to perform basic functions. For example, ISO is difficult to change. If you want to change ISO you need to do the following:

1) Press the ISO button.

2) Us the up/down buttons to find the ISO that you want.

3) Press the OK button.

This is three steps. All the while you are doing this, the histogram is obscured so you are unable to set the ISO.

You can eliminate one of these steps by programing the up/down buttons to change ISO. But you still have to press the OK button to select--two steps. And the histogram is still obscured.

I could go on and on about what used to be one step that is now two or three.

Did FujiFilm engineers even try this product before they put it on the market? I doubt it. I get the impression that this camera was designed by committee without even thinking about usability.

Because of the poor ergonomics and its poor video autofocus--despite all the hype about computational photography I say the X-H2S is shameful. And it is FujiFilm’s shame for releasing it to the market. They need to this fix now! Otherwise they have lost all credibility.

BTW. I do like the PSAM dial. That was a step in the correct direction.

yayatosorus said:

dgbarar said:

I think FujiFilm should figure out how to do video autofocus in 2023. They have a subject detect that is not reliable. Firmware 3.0 on the X-H2S is only a very modest improvement.

With all of FujiFilm’s talk prior to release of X-H2S about computational photography and AI I expected a world class video autofocusing product. They are not even close!

The solution is for FujiFilm film to first recognize that they are now at the bottom of all manufacturers with respect to video autofocus. Panasonic understood their position and are on the way up.

The X-H2S is FujiFilm’s shame!

Click to expand...

Oh please.

The X-T3 was once hyped as the best thing since sliced bread, and gradually became criticized for being borderline unusable.

Click to expand...

That applies to basically every camera ever released. This year's treasure will be next year's trash!

dgbarar said:

It is not just the X-H2S video autofocus that is now at the bottom of the pack, it is the overall ergonomics of the camera.

Fujifilm is a Japanese company and should well steeped in the manufacturing culture of Japan. One of these concepts is lean operations and attempting to eliminate as many wasted steps as possible. The Japanese even have a name for this--muda or waste.

Yet, there are so many double and triple steps one needs to make in order to perform basic functions. For example, ISO is difficult to change. If you want to change ISO you need to do the following:

1) Press the ISO button.

2) Us the up/down buttons to find the ISO that you want.

3) Press the OK button.

This is three steps. All the while you are doing this, the histogram is obscured so you are unable to set the ISO.

You can eliminate one of these steps by programing the up/down buttons to change ISO. But you still have to press the OK button to select--two steps. And the histogram is still obscured.

I could go on and on about what used to be one step that is now two or three.

Did FujiFilm engineers even try this product before they put it on the market? I doubt it. I get the impression that this camera was designed by committee without even thinking about usability.

Because of the poor ergonomics and its poor video autofocus--despite all the hype about computational photography I say the X-H2S is shameful. And it is FujiFilm’s shame for releasing it to the market. They need to this fix now! Otherwise they have lost all credibility.

BTW. I do like the PSAM dial. That was a step in the correct direction.

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Forgive me, but I never cease to be amazed at the things people choose to whine about here. So, hitting the ISO button, stepping through the ISO levels, and then pressing OK feels like too complex a set of operations for you? Wow. I can’t disagree that there might be some overall ergonomic improvements that could be pursued with X-H2S, but “shameful,” “poor ergonomics,” “lost credibility” feels like a lot of overpositioning to me. I can’t speak to video AF, since I’m strictly a stills shooter, but sorry, I’m not buying it.

Keep looking… I’m sure the “perfect” camera is out there somewhere for you.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fuji Forum co-Mod

I'd have thought that shooting auto iso would eliminate that issue entirely...

Auto ISO is a possibility. But if you are shooting video and the light changes as you pan the camera you can see a change in exposure in the final clip. I would prefer to shoot fixed ISO.

Jerry,

Yes, three motions is a big deal to change ISO. With the X-T3/4 it all that was required to change ISO was rotation of the front dial. Now there are three motions on different buttons. Not very convenient when time is of the essence. Not only did FujiFilm turn one motion into three, they also made a complete affront to Japanese operational philosophy that has been in place since WWII. Then to top it off, they obscured important exposure information while making their ISO change. This is just bizarre design philosophy. But I do like the PSAM dial.

My next complaint is about the stacked sensor. Ostensibly this was done to be able to boast that the camera could shoot 40 frames per second. Unfortunately, the autofocus is not good enough to get anything close to 90% hit rate.

Have you tried shooting video at 240 FPS? You should try it. What you get is elongated noise in the highlights at anything above ISO 1500 that can not be removed with temporal noise reduction in Davinci Resolve. FujiFilm had a pretty good 240 FPS in the X-T4. But their stacked sensor has ruined that in the X-H2S.

The only thing that I can see that FujiFilm got with their stacked sensor was bragging rights that their X-H2S could shoot at 40 FPS. But then they did not bother to tell anyone that their poor autofocus algorithm and electromechanical systems could not keep up.

One more thing. And that is about FujiFilms quality control. I wanted to get a XF 100-400. However, the first one that I purchased from Amazon had softer focus than a XF 70-300 with a 1.4X teleconverter. Sent that one back to Amazon. Then the XF 100-400 went on sale. So I thought that I would try again this time from B&H. This lens suffered from severe nissan bokeh. It was so bad that FujiFilm advised me to return to the retailer.

So my thoughts on FujiFilm are “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.......” Well, I will not be fooled again by FujiFilm that promises far more than they are able to deliver and seems generally incompetent in making design choices.

dgbarar said:

Jerry,

Yes, three motions is a big deal to change ISO. With the X-T3/4 it all that was required to change ISO was rotation of the front dial. Now there are three motions on different buttons. Not very convenient when time is of the essence. Not only did FujiFilm turn one motion into three, they also made a complete affront to Japanese operational philosophy that has been in place since WWII. Then to top it off, they obscured important exposure information while making their ISO change. This is just bizarre design philosophy. But I do like the PSAM dial.

My next complaint is about the stacked sensor. Ostensibly this was done to be able to boast that the camera could shoot 40 frames per second. Unfortunately, the autofocus is not good enough to get anything close to 90% hit rate.

Have you tried shooting video at 240 FPS? You should try it. What you get is elongated noise in the highlights at anything above ISO 1500 that can not be removed with temporal noise reduction in Davinci Resolve. FujiFilm had a pretty good 240 FPS in the X-T4. But their stacked sensor has ruined that in the X-H2S.

The only thing that I can see that FujiFilm got with their stacked sensor was bragging rights that their X-H2S could shoot at 40 FPS. But then they did not bother to tell anyone that their poor autofocus algorithm and electromechanical systems could not keep up.

One more thing. And that is about FujiFilms quality control. I wanted to get a XF 100-400. However, the first one that I purchased from Amazon had softer focus than a XF 70-300 with a 1.4X teleconverter. Sent that one back to Amazon. Then the XF 100-400 went on sale. So I thought that I would try again this time from B&H. This lens suffered from severe nissan bokeh. It was so bad that FujiFilm advised me to return to the retailer.

So my thoughts on FujiFilm are “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.......” Well, I will not be fooled again by FujiFilm that promises far more than they are able to deliver.

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Well, TBH, if I’d had your experience, I might have felt equally frustrated. Now whether the QC issues that you’re referring to are endemic or just a matter of some really lousy luck is really the question. Maybe I’m just one of the lucky ones, but my own experience with the three Fujifilm cameras I’ve owned has certainly been better (though not perfect) and certainly not at a level that might have me looking for another vendor.

I also frankly haven’t found the ISO change process on my X-H2s to be a big deal, but again, ergonomics are very subject to personal preference. Hit the ISO button, then step ISO up or down with another. Simple and plenty fast enough for my needs, anyway. I also don’t shoot video, so I can’t comment one way or another on any issues you might be experiencing there. Bottom line: I’ve found my own experience with Fujifilm’s QA to be well within reasonable expectations. Given your experience and concerns, then seeking another vendor may well be the right thing for you to do and it’s not really my place to call that into question.

Jerry-astro said:

dgbarar said:

Jerry,

Yes, three motions is a big deal to change ISO. With the X-T3/4 it all that was required to change ISO was rotation of the front dial. Now there are three motions on different buttons. Not very convenient when time is of the essence. Not only did FujiFilm turn one motion into three, they also made a complete affront to Japanese operational philosophy that has been in place since WWII. Then to top it off, they obscured important exposure information while making their ISO change. This is just bizarre design philosophy. But I do like the PSAM dial.

My next complaint is about the stacked sensor. Ostensibly this was done to be able to boast that the camera could shoot 40 frames per second. Unfortunately, the autofocus is not good enough to get anything close to 90% hit rate.

Have you tried shooting video at 240 FPS? You should try it. What you get is elongated noise in the highlights at anything above ISO 1500 that can not be removed with temporal noise reduction in Davinci Resolve. FujiFilm had a pretty good 240 FPS in the X-T4. But their stacked sensor has ruined that in the X-H2S.

The only thing that I can see that FujiFilm got with their stacked sensor was bragging rights that their X-H2S could shoot at 40 FPS. But then they did not bother to tell anyone that their poor autofocus algorithm and electromechanical systems could not keep up.

One more thing. And that is about FujiFilms quality control. I wanted to get a XF 100-400. However, the first one that I purchased from Amazon had softer focus than a XF 70-300 with a 1.4X teleconverter. Sent that one back to Amazon. Then the XF 100-400 went on sale. So I thought that I would try again this time from B&H. This lens suffered from severe nissan bokeh. It was so bad that FujiFilm advised me to return to the retailer.

So my thoughts on FujiFilm are “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.......” Well, I will not be fooled again by FujiFilm that promises far more than they are able to deliver.

Click to expand...

Well, TBH, if I’d had your experience, I might have felt equally frustrated. Now whether the QC issues that you’re referring to are endemic or just a matter of some really lousy luck is really the question. Maybe I’m just one of the lucky ones, but my own experience with the three Fujifilm cameras I’ve owned has certainly been better (though not perfect) and certainly not at a level that might have me looking for another vendor.

I also frankly haven’t found the ISO change process on my X-H2s to be a big deal, but again, ergonomics are very subject to personal preference. Hit the ISO button, then step ISO up or down with another. Simple and plenty fast enough for my needs, anyway. I also don’t shoot video, so I can’t comment one way or another on any issues you might be experiencing there. Bottom line: I’ve found my own experience with Fujifilm’s QA to be well within reasonable expectations. Given your experience and concerns, then seeking another vendor may well be the right thing for you to do and it’s not really my place to call that into question.

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Regarding ISO, I do agree that it would be easier if Fuji just let us change it via the front/rear dials.

However, currently the only extra step now is pressing the ISO button first...then you can turn the rear dial as usual. It's not that complicated.

Another way would be to program both the Up & Down button on the D-pad to ISO and now it's just a one button press to change ISO...simple.

AF is also working great for me yet also being continually improved by Fujifilm. As for QC, it's the same for all brands...good luck with whichever brand you choose.

RobRoy22 said:

RobRoy22 said:

gdanmitchell said:

jbuzzinco said:

Fujifilm needs to update the rest of their lenses that don't resolve to match the new 40mp sensor. Given their limited R&D and manufacturing capacity, I'm wondering what will be prioritized. Will they work on new cameras with the new sensor or update more lenses?

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Don't believe that Fujifilm list of lenses that do (and my omission, supposedly don't) work all on 40MP sensor cameras.

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Where did Fuji say some lenses don’t work with the 40MP sensor?

Absolutely nowhere!

RobRoy22 said:

It is pretty much a nonsense list. It includes lenses that are not necessarily remarkably sharp while leaving off lenses (like the excellent 14mm f/2.8 and the 35mm f/1.4) that are.

I have the XT5 and I've test several of these not-on-the-list lenses (the 35mm f/1.4 and the old 27mm f/2.8) and they very much DO provide excellent resolution performance on the new sensor.

I am pretty sure that the "list" came out of the marketing department...

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What Fujifilm said was...

"Use the following lenses to get the maximum benefit from
X-H2's 40.2 megapixel sensor"

The clear implication is that lenses on the list get "maximum benefit" (whatever that is) and those not on the list don't get "maximum benefit."

The reason I brought it up is that various folks have said/suggested/implied that they were taking the list into consideration as they determined what lenses are appropriate for their 40MP Fujfifilm x-trans cameras. Some have been discounting lenses that are not on the infamous list.

If you know Fujifilm x-trans lenses, it is plain that there are incongruities on the nonsensical list. For example, the older 27mm f/2.8 is not on the list while the newer version with the aperture ring is... despite the fact that the lenses are optically the same. The 35mm f/1.4 is not on the list, yet I've tested it on a 40MP sensor camera and it is more than capable of rendering images that fully take advantage of 40MP sensors. The very sharp 14mm f/2.8 is not on the list... but the 18-55mm kit zoom is.

Therein point is that relying on that list to make decisions about what leases are appropriate for use on 40MP Fujfilm sensors is unwarranted and a mistake.

--
When in doubt, doubt.
www.gdanmitchell.com

RobRoy22 said:

--
When in doubt, doubt.
www.gdanmitchell.com

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dgbarar said:

The X-H2S is FujiFilm’s shame!

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Hyperbole much?

gdanmitchell said:

Sir Jake said:

I'm really new to Fuji systems, despite my first mirrorless camera being the XA3. I haven't touched a Fuji camera in a while.

Trying to get back onto the Fuji train because of their light weight cameras.

Just looking through the release windows of their past models, and I think some cameras are due for an update this year: X-Pro3, X100V, X-S10, and X-E4.

All of these would likely get the new X-trans sensor, but I don't think Fuji is likely to release them all this year, would probably spread them out into 2024.

What are your guesses for the release schedule?

For the past two models, the release of the X-Pro series were always closely followed by the X100 series and the X-E series. But the X-Pro series has a long refresh cycle so I wouldn't necessarily call it a trend, might just be coincidence.

Thoughts?

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FWIW, I think the line will likely move, model by model, to the 40MP sensor, and newly released cameras will, of course, incorporate other technical improvements found in the XH2 and XT5, such as IBIS and improved AF.

I have no inside information, but the two models most likely to be updated first, in my estimation, are the X100(x) and the X-S(##) models. Currently, the demand for the former exceeds the supply, and the camera is really difficult to find, with some people resort to buying used copies at above-list prices. The latter model line has been popular for a range of reasons including its price point, and would likely be very successful, too.

I think there will be an update to the XE4, but I'm less sure that it will come soon. It is often one of the last to move to newer sensors, so if/when it happens it might be late in the year or even in early 2024.

I'm not so sure that there will be a XPro4. The XPro line is a fine ideal, and I still have the XPro2 that I have relied on for years — though I'm replacing it with a XT5 and turning the XPro2 over to one of my sons. It is a remarkable camera, and was especially so earlier in its life when people were skeptical about EVF-only cameras and back when Fujifilm treated it as its flagship camera. Yes, originally the XPro1 was the flagship — the do-everything camera that they placed as the top model in the line-up.

Unfortunately for the future of that model, Fujifilm now treats the XT2-line cameras as the flagship, and many users regard the XT5 as being the best combination of excellent performance, small size, and manual controls. Additionally, many of us who were initially concerned about the quality of EVF displays have adapted... and the displays have improved... and the hybrid display is no longer as widely appealing as it once was. I'm not sure there's space in the model line-up any more for yet another high-end, expensive camera.

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I think there will be an XPro4. The 3 was very controversial with the hidden lcd, and I think after seeing that they swapped to the 3-tilt on XT5 with success perhaps they might go back to that 3-tilt. I do think XE5 will take awhile to come out. Praying for x100 first lol. SX20 is def next I think according to rumors.

gdanmitchell said:

If you know Fujifilm x-trans lenses, it is plain that there are incongruities on the nonsensical list. For example, the older 27mm f/2.8 is not on the list while the newer version with the aperture ring is... despite the fact that the lenses are optically the same.

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Which makes my cynical brain deduce that this is simply a marketing ploy to get one to buy newer lenses by upgrading so contributing to their bottom line!

It's business.

I'd like to see them with not only with new sensor but also with new battery.

Just to be fun a XF 11mm f/2.8 R lens

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https://www.instagram.com/mahidoes/
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Shameful. Hyperbole much? Not really. If a photographer, individuals seems somewhat pleased with the X-H2S. If a videographer, Meh. Just OK.

One has to ask themselves what was the benefit of a stacked sensor:

1) The stacked sensor can shoot photographs at 40 FPS. Unfortunately, the autofocus algorithm and electromechanical systems can not keep up deliver anywhere near 40 FPS. Seems to me if you what to shoot at that 40 FPS, one is doing lots of culling of photographs to find those that are in focus. 20 FPS will all in focus would be much better.

2) If a videographer, the stacked sensor destroyed 240 FPS on the X-H2S relative to the X-T4. Any ISO over 1600 results in an elongated noise pattern in the highlights that can not be removed with temporal noise reduction in DaVinci Resolve.

3) If a videographer, the stacked sensor at 240 FPS changed the crop factor from 1.29 on the X-T4 to 1.39 on the X-H2S. Why? But sensor read out is supposed to be so much faster! Why is was it necessary to increase the crop?

Another individual wrote about the X-T3 being maligned a few years after its releases date in 2018. I had an X-T3. I thought it was great camera in its day relative to the competition. But 4 years later with the release the of the X-H2S, the competition has moved far ahead. The X-H2S did not advance much in core functionality with respect to autofocus and IBIS--the IBIS is still jumpy when panning in video.

FujiFilm promised much more with their big talk about computation photography and artificial intelligence and is still yet to deliver. To me, the X-H2S at a minimum is a disappointing release and I still believe it to be shameful.

2022 was the big year. They introduced a new processor and not one but two state of the art APSC sensors. One a high resolution - equivalent to a 90 MP FF sensor - 40 MP APSC sensor and second a 26 MP stacked sensor that supports 40 FPS and is fast enough as to make the use of the manual shutter obsolete. Along with that there has been a major upgrade to their subject detection and tracking AF.

For the next two to three years, Fuji will simply build off of those developments as they roll out these developments into new models. Of course they will start work on their next sensor/processor designs to release in about 4 years and to evolve their AF F/W.

What I expect to see in 2023 is concentration on revamping some of the older lenses. For example, the 18 f1.4 is nice I am sure, it is too damn big and heavy for me to slap on my XPro and use on the street. The 18 f1.4 is unusable in the OVF while the 18 f2 works just fine. We need an up date of the compact 18 F2. We may or may not see IBIS for smaller cameras like the XPro or even XE. If all cameras and lenses should be WR.

But the major heavy lifting was released in 2022.

Sir Jake said:

Just looking through the release windows of their past models, and I think some cameras are due for an update this year: X-Pro3, X100V, X-S10, and X-E4.

All of these would likely get the new X-trans sensor, but I don't think Fuji is likely to release them all this year, would probably spread them out into 2024.

Thoughts?

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Fujifilm has two new X-Trans sensors. A stacked 26 MP one and a non-stacked 40 MP one.

While you have a reasonable list of models that may be candidates for updates this year, I don't think you will find that they all get one of those two sensors. I don't think Fujifilm is going to make 40 MP the baseline.

A topic of speculation then, would be whether Fujifilm comes out with a third new sensor or recycles the current 26 MP one, but with a new X-Trans processing chip.

Jerry-astro said:

Forgive me, but I never cease to be amazed at the things people choose to whine about here. So, hitting the ISO button, stepping through the ISO levels, and then pressing OK feels like too complex a set of operations for you? Wow. I can’t disagree that there might be some overall ergonomic improvements that could be pursued with X-H2S, but “shameful,” “poor ergonomics,” “lost credibility” feels like a lot of overpositioning to me. I can’t speak to video AF, since I’m strictly a stills shooter, but sorry, I’m not buying it.

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Jerry, if that's how changing ISO works then I would agree with the other poster that Fujifilm got it wrong. It may be a minor point, but if I owned an X-H2S that process would bug me no end.

Just compare to Nikon. Press and hold the dedicated ISO button that is next to the shutter release. Spin the back wheel until your desired ISO appears. Let go. Done.

I love my X-E3 and I'll forgive the clumsy operation of going into the menu to change ISO because it's a real scaled back model. But I wouldn't be able to stand the operation described for the X-H2S. Sorry.

Jerry-astro said:

mhasman said:

Definitely big year, most possible with X-Pro and X100 lines cancelation announcement comes first.

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Unless you have a credible source to support that bit of speculation, I suspect that you’re way off on this. Makes no sense at all.

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I can't speak to the X100. Where do you get a credible source of a rumor?

In the case of the X-Pro I think the speculation and ensuing rumor came from the report that Fujifilm had stopped production of the X-Pro3. There was so given reason behind it (e.g. parts shortages and available parts needed to go into new releases).

At the same time there are no rumors of a new X-Pro4 to replace it. FujiRumors is clear in its opinion that an X-Pro4 will be coming but it has no information on when that might be.

So I suspect you are right. I think there will be an X-Pro4. Who knows when.