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MattPointZero
Guest
This is right, but it all hinges on the perpetuity bit. Perpetuity is not until they take it back.
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Have Capture One the Best Subscription Model?
- Thread starter IanYorke
- Start date
TonyGN10
Leading Member
The "Term" is covered in 12. It does not define specific product Terms. Instead 12.1 says:
12.1 :...the license term (“License Term”) [is] as shown at Capture One’s website at the time of purchase and set out in the license order confirmation e-mail sent by Capture One to the Licensee confirming the Licensee’s ordering of the Software subsequent to the Licensee’s submission of an order at Capture One’s website or in the Capture One Software (“Order Confirmation”)."
So if, when you bought your license, the Term was defined as "perpetual" (on their website and license order confirmation email - keep those emails!!!), that's what the Term is (i.e perpetual) and so in that sense C1 can't "take it back".
Of course, C1 could, if they wished, make it a condition of any future transactions with them that you voluntarily agree (in an amended Software License covering the new transaction), to terminate any perpetual licenses you may have bought in the past. I have absolutely no idea if they plan or would want to do that. If they did, you could of course just not buy a future product and therefore keep your current perpetual license as is.
The clock does not start over after 5 years. At 60+ months of subscribing, you can convert to a current perpetual license for free. There is a sliding scale of price with subs shorter than 60 months. That sounds pretty darn tempting to me. I will strongly consider subscribing with the next annual update.
Tom_N
Forum Pro
He's not saying that the clock starts over after 5 years, if you just keep subscribing. As long as you've been continuously subscribing for 5 years + a day, or longer, they'll let you stop subscribing and get a 100% discount on a perpetual copy (i.e. that perpetual copy will be free).
Stopping the subscription presumably resets the clock for getting the next discounted (or free) perpetual copy.
- At 5 years and a day, you can't say "I'd like 10 free perpetual copies, please." (Well, you could say it, and they'd reply "NO.")
- Let's say that you subscribed for 5 years and a day, took them up on the free perpetual copy, and then waited several years before subscribing again. The discount they offered at the end of that subscription would depend upon its length. I.e., if the second subscription was for one year and a day, you could purchase a new perpetual copy for 20% off.
James C. Murray
Senior Member
I have been a satisfied user of C One for some time and was on version 21 and decided to skip V22.
I intended to upgrade to V23 but while browsing around Black Friday time I came upon version 23 perpetual licence at a cheaper price than the upgrade from 21, available from a well established vendor.
I used a different E-Mail address to complete the transaction and activation and now have V21 and V23 perpetual licences on my computers.
Not sure if broadcasting this via the internet is a mistake and I am not sure where this leaves me in regards to "Loyalty" or if Capture One will get on my case.
At the end of the day the price difference is not really a factor, if V23 gets me through a few years with whatever bug fixes they are willing to give me I am fine. If a must have feature set comes along though I will probably buy it.
Apple or the camera manufacturers are more likely to break the program for me as I think PP software capabilities are reaching a point where rabbits from the hat are becoming less surprising as time goes by, although I still like shiny new toys.
I intended to upgrade to V23 but while browsing around Black Friday time I came upon version 23 perpetual licence at a cheaper price than the upgrade from 21, available from a well established vendor.
I used a different E-Mail address to complete the transaction and activation and now have V21 and V23 perpetual licences on my computers.
Not sure if broadcasting this via the internet is a mistake and I am not sure where this leaves me in regards to "Loyalty" or if Capture One will get on my case.
At the end of the day the price difference is not really a factor, if V23 gets me through a few years with whatever bug fixes they are willing to give me I am fine. If a must have feature set comes along though I will probably buy it.
Apple or the camera manufacturers are more likely to break the program for me as I think PP software capabilities are reaching a point where rabbits from the hat are becoming less surprising as time goes by, although I still like shiny new toys.
jfriend00
Forum Pro
Yeah, a wildcard here with perpetual license pricing is that Capture One has a history of offering sales and deals (probably when they feel a need for a boost in sales revenue). Like clockwork, they would routinely do this in Nov/Dec and then again in the spring sometime. Because these aren't hard plans, you can't count on them, but they've been doing these sales for as long as I've been a customer (3 years).
I imagine with their new pricing scheme, they intend to not do this as much, but I also rather doubt that the need to boost sales at certain times of the year will still happen and this will still be one of the knobs they can turn to get a boost.
So, if they do offer perpetual license "deals" or "sales" or some of their sales partners offer these deals (like you found), then the perpetual license becomes a better deal than it appears in this latest communication. Again, you can't count on it, but I also rather doubt that the same issue that drove them to do sales before will probably still be there.
IanYorke
Veteran Member
Yes, that's why I started this thread, C1's subscription model is more attractive than the traditional one where you stop subscribing where, using Adobe as the example, you lose all access to Photoshop and can't edit in LR. That's unless the "quick edits" in Library are all you need.
Other software companies will be taking note.
Ian
But this perpetual license you will get after 5 years of hoping won't last for ever. As other mentioned, system upgrades might break it, or it does not support a new camera model.
And another point is, that it is not backward compatible.
This takeover from capture one by investment firms created a lot of trouble. Considering that a part of this company is owned by by it's employees.
It's quite a difference between a company providing safe and well paid jobs for its motivated employees and management or investors looking for permanently rising quarterly results.
Thom hogan wrote about it
Has Anything Really Changed in Photo Editing Software?
Photography writer Thom Hogan looks at the landscape of photography software and the battle between subscription and perpetual licenses.
petapixel.com
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IanYorke
Veteran Member
The perpetual license you get is the version that exists when you stop subscribing so it is exactly the same situation as any perpetual license. C1 is backward compatible, like LR it will upgrade older catalogues to the current version, but you will have already done this so I'm not sure what aspect you are trying to highlight?
If you are still buying new cameras then you are probably going to be continuing to subscribe r you've moved on to something else so C1 is irrelevant.
Any perpetual license can be rendered inoperable by OS change but this is really an Apple Mac issue, and Mac people in general accept this as part of the Mac "deal".
Ian
I use sessions. When I update to a new version, capture one asks whether I want to update the my images to the new engine.
Processing Pipeline in Capture One • Image Alchemist
Learning about the processing pipeline in Capture One gives you guidance in your editing workflow, and a better understanding of how tools cooperate
imagealchemist.net
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MattPointZero
Guest
But not so with lightroom, where you will get permanent access using whatever the latest LR version is. Not to full edit, but to do basic tasks with your catalogs no matter if you subscribed for 5 years or one month.
IanYorke
Veteran Member
Are you under the impression that the free perpetual version that you get after 5 years subscription is not the current version but 5 years old?
Ian
"But not so with lightroom, where you will get permanent access using whatever the latest LR version is. Not to full edit, but to do basic tasks with your catalogs no matter if you subscribed for 5 years or one month."
That doesn't work for me. I need to be able to re-edit. that's the deal breaker with Adobe.
C1 gives me the opportunity to either subscribe or obtain a license and then update as I see fit--even re-subscribing again in the future.
I'm a project-based visual artist and sometimes I use photography a lot, other times not so much. The ability to re-edit is crucial for re-purposing older files and also as my skills (and C1's tools) improve. YMMV.
That doesn't work for me. I need to be able to re-edit. that's the deal breaker with Adobe.
C1 gives me the opportunity to either subscribe or obtain a license and then update as I see fit--even re-subscribing again in the future.
I'm a project-based visual artist and sometimes I use photography a lot, other times not so much. The ability to re-edit is crucial for re-purposing older files and also as my skills (and C1's tools) improve. YMMV.
jfriend00
Forum Pro
Yeah, but you can always buy another perpetual license if you really need it (for new cameras or OS compatibility). At least you have that option. If you're using it with new cameras, then you are apparently still actively using C1 for your photography so it should be no big deal to occasionally buy an upgrade.
Yeah, the whole messup in communication about the changes with perpetual licensing are something that would only happen when the finance people are calling the shots instead of the product/customer people calling the shots.
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MattPointZero
Guest
But then you are asking for full capability without a subscription or purchase. So you just pay the (very small amount of) £10 a month and you are back in the game.
Up until now, C1 gave you nothing. Now they give you a level of discount based on time served, and it will do what you want UNTIL an OS or other change stops you. Then you are back at square one. I agree it is MUCH better than previously was the case and allays some of my fears of the subscription - but for me it is far from the best model.
Adobe charge you a third of the price, demand no extended spending history, and always give you access to your workflow that was carried out with their software whether used for a month or a decade. And not unreasonably say if you want full service, pay to use.
Let's say broadly (UK currency) it is £250 a year for C1 + ipad. somewhere thereabouts, for ease of maths.
So in 5 years / 60 months you spend £1250 and get a development-limited perpetual license with no updates
For the same spend you get almost ten and a half years of adobe LRC PLUS Ipad PLUS photoshop(!) and lifetime access to your catalogs. Over twice as long and twice the apps
For me, C1 do NOT have the best model.
Up until now, C1 gave you nothing. Now they give you a level of discount based on time served, and it will do what you want UNTIL an OS or other change stops you. Then you are back at square one. I agree it is MUCH better than previously was the case and allays some of my fears of the subscription - but for me it is far from the best model.
Adobe charge you a third of the price, demand no extended spending history, and always give you access to your workflow that was carried out with their software whether used for a month or a decade. And not unreasonably say if you want full service, pay to use.
Let's say broadly (UK currency) it is £250 a year for C1 + ipad. somewhere thereabouts, for ease of maths.
So in 5 years / 60 months you spend £1250 and get a development-limited perpetual license with no updates
For the same spend you get almost ten and a half years of adobe LRC PLUS Ipad PLUS photoshop(!) and lifetime access to your catalogs. Over twice as long and twice the apps
For me, C1 do NOT have the best model.
IanYorke
Veteran Member
My post was about the model not the price. What's your view on the model, subscribe and get a free or reduced price perpetual licence? Might it be adopted by more software vendors? Is it a better deal than traditional subscription?
Ian
Jestertheclown
Senior Member
It's been touted many times in these fora that Adobe should adopt a similar 'get a perpetual licence if you've subscribed for long enough' deal so, clearly, there are people about that like the idea.
Where, I think, Capture One currently fall down is the cost of the subscription.
At one time, it was possible, if you bought at the right time, to get a really good deal; my C1 subscription costs me far less than the going rate but I think those days are gone.
I reckon that if C1 was to reduce the cost to something similar to Adobe's ten quid a month, with a perpetual licence at the end of a number of years, they'd be on to a winner.
"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
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MattPointZero
Guest
It's so hard to separate the two - the model is intertwined with what you pay and what you get in return and whether or not the model works depends in part on the payment structure it is predicated upon.
But I get your point.
Is it situation dependent? If you leave the subscription (any software) because you no longer carry out the activity, but years later you want to access your catalogs etc, then the LR model works best.
If you love C1 (or whatever software) but get priced out, or your circumstances change and you can't maintain the subscription, but don't want to lose the functionality or capability, the new C1 model is best, at least until that version is no longer compatible with your OS etc, then the model becomes a nightmare again.
Who knows. The new C1 model is unnecessarily complex for me, but the one thing we can all agree is that it is at least a hell of a lot better than it was before in terms of exiting the subscription
IanYorke
Veteran Member
jfriend00
Forum Pro
With C1, you could always buy a perpetual license when you exit the subscription. That's always been a choice. The difference now is that if you've been a subscriber for awhile, you get a discount on the perpetual and it's even free after 5 years of subscription.
Yes, the perpetual license version may not be runnable forever, though that seems to be more of an issue on Mac than it does on Windows. Macs seem to undergo architectural/chip changes that Windows does not.
I'm still running Adobe LR 6 just fine on my Windows computer (LR6 is almost 8 years old) to access my old library. I can even still run Photoshop CS6 (11 years old) though I now prefer to use Affinity Photo since it is so much newer. Of course, if your perpetual licensed copy were to stop working with some future OS version, there is always a solution that just costs a few $$ by buying a new, current perpetual license.
And, buying an occasional perpetual license upgrade is still less expensive than maintaining the subscription. If you ask me, the only reasons to do the subscription are:
- You like paying a smaller amount monthly rather than a larger amount every once in a while for cash flow reasons
- You absolutely must have the more frequent upgrades that C1 is promising as soon as they are available.
- You're absolutely sure that you would buy every single upgrade anyway.
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