Z fc folks: Do you use the ISO Dial?

Hi,

I enjoy my Z fc a lot, and I'd buy it again for sure.

However, it does have issues. One is the ISO dial, which seems like an outright design blunder.

Yes, it's pretty. But beauty is as beauty does, and I've found no useful application for it.
If you've found a useful application for yours, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Happy shooting,

OE

I'd use the ISO dial often as I only shoot manual ISO.

What I consider a blunder on the fc is the exposure compensation dial.

I use manually set iso, so I use this dial practically every time I use the camera or change subject matter, lighting, or scene. My primary use mode is aperture preferred with manually set iso, so iso dial is almost the most used dial for me.

How's that - I haven't had any problems with it (exp comp)

Hi capanikon,

Thanks for responding. Two questions:

1. Do you have a Z fc? Your gear list shows DSLR items.

2. Why is ISO top priority for you? What's the benefit over controlling (effective) exposure other ways?

Thanks,

OE

Hi Bob,

Thanks for responding. Two questions:

1. Do you have a Z fc?

2. Why is ISO top priority for you? What's the benefit over controlling (effective) exposure other ways?

BTW, I don't have a problem with the Exposure Comp knob either. It does what it's supposed to do. If I had to criticize, I could note that it's small, and that the location isn't ideal.

Thanks,

OE

Yes, I have a Zfc. I use manual ISO because as great as high iso is on the Zfc, I tend to believe there is still an image quality advantage to the using the lowest iso possible. Also, I have been choosing what iso to use for over 65 years and don't see any real reason to change my style now.

Hi Bob,

That's interesting! Sixty-five years ago, I was using a primitive SLR called Pentina. It replaced my beloved Kodak Duaflex II. I got that for Christmas about 70 years ago. My first variable-ISO camera was the Nikon D70, about 19 years ago.

When you mention choosing ISO in much earlier times, you'd have to be talking about choosing different ISO films. That's a drastically different dynamic than turning a dial. Sometimes I used to carry two FE bodies, one loaded with Kodachrome II and the other with Kodachrome 400. K II was sublime, best color transparency film ever. IQ of the 400 speed stuff would compare to ISO 25K today. That was a massive difference!

The point you seem to miss is that forcing low ISOs adversely affects shutter speed and aperture. Slow shutter speed can completely ruin sharpness, unless you're going for pan blur or (tripod) water blur. Opening up the lens up wide usually introduces more artifacts, and less sharpness. It can also reduce depth-of-field way too much, as in macro work.

But hey, we all have ways we like to do things. Most of the time I use Auto ISO with limit of 6400. I choose shutter speed and aperture manually, taking into account the lens and situation.

I have three focusing modes: AF-A (camera chooses target), AF on MY chosen target, or
MF on MY chosen target.

YMMV. By all means, do things the way you enjoy!

Happy shooting,

OE

Bob A L said:

Yes, I have a Zfc. I use manual ISO because as great as high iso is on the Zfc, I tend to believe there is still an image quality advantage to the using the lowest iso possible. Also, I have been choosing what iso to use for over 65 years and don't see any real reason to change my style now.

Click to expand...

Old Ed said:

Hi,

I enjoy my Z fc a lot, and I'd buy it again for sure.

However, it does have issues. One is the ISO dial, which seems like an outright design blunder.

Yes, it's pretty. But beauty is as beauty does, and I've found no useful application for it.
If you've found a useful application for yours, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Click to expand...

Seriously? Most people would probably use it to set ISO. Do you also find the shutter speed dial to be totally useless?

Old Ed said:

Hi capanikon,

Thanks for responding. Two questions:

1. Do you have a Z fc? Your gear list shows DSLR items.

Click to expand...

No. My current D3 has a manual ISO feature that essentially works like the fc's. My old Nikon FM2n had an ISO dial and I used that all the time as well.

Old Ed said:

2. Why is ISO top priority for you? What's the benefit over controlling (effective) exposure other ways?

Click to expand...

I like to really lock down my exposure and auto ISO prohibits me from doing so. Thus I only use manual ISO.

I shoot manual 95% of the time, aperture-priority the remaining 5% and P and S pretty much never.

When I use A mode I might use EC a little but usually don't.

I find that if I'm going to fiddle with EC all day I might as well shoot full manual since it's just as much effort.

The FM/FM2n didn't have EC dials, nor any autoexposure mode. The fc is tryiing to pretend it is an FM.

--
irc.libera.chat #photogeeks

I am an older guy, grew up with Nikon SLR's

I now have Z6ii and Zfc (mont green) as well as a D5500 which I plan to sell

As such I prefer to use ISO 100.

So I dont use the ISO dial.

I then decide weather to use Aperture or Shutter priority.

If I was shooing in low light light I would wind up the ISO.

But I believe that there are no free lunchs

If you up the ISO you must loose some image quality, the same as with wide aperture or slow shutter speeds

michaeladawson said:

Old Ed said:

Hi,

I enjoy my Z fc a lot, and I'd buy it again for sure.

However, it does have issues. One is the ISO dial, which seems like an outright design blunder.

Yes, it's pretty. But beauty is as beauty does, and I've found no useful application for it.
If you've found a useful application for yours, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Click to expand...

Seriously? Most people would probably use it to set ISO. Do you also find the shutter speed dial to be totally useless?

Click to expand...

Absolutely not. The shutter speed dial is highly useful for me.

My use case is mostly available light, hand-held. I want to get good shots quickly, before a key moment passes. Hence I'm fine with AF when it focuses on MY choice of subject. (When it doesn't I have 'semi-auto' AF and MF.) I also believe in auto exposure, properly set up.

Only I can estimate the shutter speed needed for my circumstances, including subject movement and focal length. So I use the shutter speed dial often. No auto shutter speed for me.

I also want to control lens aperture, taking into account lens performance, and DOF at different apertures. So no auto aperture for me.

What does that leave to get auto 'exposure'? It leaves ISO. Fortunately, ISO happens to have great range, and no sudden adverse effects. Hence I'm in auto ISO all the time. My finder shows the ISO setting. If I don't like it (and there's time), I'll change shutter speed and/or aperture to 'improve' ISO.

For more description, please see my last reply to Bob AL. It wasn't there when you posted your reply to my OP.

As with Bob, YMMV. Whatever your control preferences, enjoy.

OE

Old Ed said:

michaeladawson said:

Old Ed said:

Hi,

I enjoy my Z fc a lot, and I'd buy it again for sure.

However, it does have issues. One is the ISO dial, which seems like an outright design blunder.

Yes, it's pretty. But beauty is as beauty does, and I've found no useful application for it.
If you've found a useful application for yours, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Click to expand...

Seriously? Most people would probably use it to set ISO. Do you also find the shutter speed dial to be totally useless?

Click to expand...

Absolutely not. The shutter speed dial is highly useful for me.

My use case is mostly available light, hand-held. I want to get good shots quickly, before a key moment passes. Hence I'm fine with AF when it focuses on MY choice of subject. (When it doesn't I have 'semi-auto' AF and MF.) I also believe in auto exposure, properly set up.

Only I can estimate the shutter speed needed for my circumstances, including subject movement and focal length. So I use the shutter speed dial often. No auto shutter speed for me.

I also want to control lens aperture, taking into account lens performance, and DOF at different apertures. So no auto aperture for me.

What does that leave to get auto 'exposure'? It leaves ISO. Fortunately, ISO happens to have great range, and no sudden adverse effects. Hence I'm in auto ISO all the time. My finder shows the ISO setting. If I don't like it (and there's time), I'll change shutter speed and/or aperture to 'improve' ISO.

For more description, please see my last reply to Bob AL. It wasn't there when you posted your reply to my OP.

As with Bob, YMMV. Whatever your control preferences, enjoy.

OE

Click to expand...

You are free to use a camera any way you wish. As is every one else. On a retro inspired camera, calling the ISO dial a design blunder is outright laughable. Go into the Fujifilm forum and tell people their ISO dial is a command blunder.

I rarely ever use auto ISO. Just like I want to control aperture and shutter speed, I want control over ISO as well.

If anything, the entire Zfc is a design flaw. Nikon doesn’t make lenses with aperture rings anymore (not marked or with click stops) so you’re left using a command dial. You say you use auto ISO. So what’s left? The shutter speed dial. Why would I buy a Zfc just so I can have a shutter speed dial?

When I want a retro experience I’ll use my Fujifim bodies. ISO dial, shutter speed dial, and lenses with aperture rings. Retro done right.

Yes, 65 years ago I controlled what ISO I used by what film I loaded in camera. Todays digitals have provided me with the ability to operate exactly as I did way back when. Except today I can change ISO easily on a shot by shot basis if I want. But on second thought I could do that with a 4x5 speed graphic also.

It is a credit to their technology that as long as I can match lighting of the scene I can use the same ISO, aperture, and shutter speed setting on any of my digitals to produce essentially identical photos taken with the same settings on 4x5 sheet film, 620 roll film, MF, 35MM film, 126 film, whatever

Old Ed said:

Hi Bob,

Thanks for responding. Two questions:

1. Do you have a Z fc?

2. Why is ISO top priority for you? What's the benefit over controlling (effective) exposure other ways?

Click to expand...

You need to understand that ISO has nothing to do with exposure. It only changes the sensitivity of the sensor. Period.


Aperture and shutter speed, only, change exposure which is the amount of light that hits the sensor. That is why if the image needs to be brighter, it is always best to increase exposure rather than ISO, which increases noise along with more brightness. A tripod is often needed to be able to do that. ISO still needs to be changed at times though, and the dial is one good way to do that.

Old Ed said:

BTW, I don't have a problem with the Exposure Comp knob either. It does what it's supposed to do. If I had to criticize, I could note that it's small, and that the location isn't ideal.

Thanks,

OE

Click to expand...

--
Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
Light pollution does not only erase our view of the stars. Scientific evidence suggests that artificial light at night has negative and deadly effects on wildlife, including amphibians, birds, insects, and mammals. ~ Bin Chen

Ernie Misner said:

Old Ed said:

Hi Bob,

Thanks for responding. Two questions:

1. Do you have a Z fc?

2. Why is ISO top priority for you? What's the benefit over controlling (effective) exposure other ways?

Click to expand...

You need to understand that ISO has nothing to do with exposure. It only changes the sensitivity of the sensor. Period.

Click to expand...

You apparently missed the meaning of my phrase "(effective) exposure." The term (effective) acknowledged that upping gain looks like more exposure, but doesn't change the photon count. Your term for this effect seems to be the "brightness" of an image.
I prefer my description, and you're certainly entitled to yours. Period.

OE

Hi Michael,

This is probably my last post in this thread, unless a new and open-minded poster chimes in.

For efficiency, going to insert mode...

michaeladawson said:

You are free to use a camera any way you wish. As is every one else. On a retro inspired camera, calling the ISO dial a design blunder is outright laughable.

Click to expand...

Did you know that the retro film cameras didn't have controls that could change ISO? That's because the film controlled the ISO, not the camera. The purpose of the ISO dial was to tell the camera's light meter what the ISO of the film was.

The Z fc's ISO dial is a blunder for me. I'm the sole judge of that, and no one else gets a vote. Similarly, you're the judge about whether or not it's useful for you. You're also the judge of whether you find the issue amusing.

michaeladawson said:

Go into the Fujifilm forum and tell people their ISO dial is a command blunder.

Click to expand...

I've never used a Fuji ISO dial, so I wouldn't do that. I have no opinion on its usefulness.
I am curious about whether Fuji's does anything smarter than the Z fc's.

It's certainly possible to design a useful ISO dial. For example, one scheme would be two pointers: one for max ISO, and one for min ISO. When apart, you'd get auto ISO between those limits. Push them together on a number to get fixed ISO. Better ideas welcome.

michaeladawson said:

I rarely ever use auto ISO. Just like I want to control aperture and shutter speed, I want control over ISO as well.

Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with that, unless you're talking about a purely manual mode, with nothing auto. That would be far too slow for most folks. If something's auto, what?

michaeladawson said:

If anything, the entire Z fc is a design flaw. Nikon doesn’t make lenses with aperture rings anymore (not marked or with click stops) so you’re left using a command dial.

Click to expand...

You have a point on this one. I also prefer Fuji's approach of taking the best of retro controls. That includes traditional looking aperture rings. I envy those. But they are lens features, not body features. This thread is about a body feature.

The Viltrox Z DX 56mm f/1.4 that I got for Xmas had a lovely looking aperture ring. Alas, it also had unacceptable CA and flawed Z AF support. So I had to return it. :-(

michaeladawson said:

You say you use auto ISO. So what’s left? The shutter speed dial. Why would I buy a Zfc just so I can have a shutter speed dial?

Click to expand...

I don't remember anyone trying to sell you a Z fc. If they did, you could make a Forum complaint.

When I bought mine, I knew little about its control characteristics. But after a year, and 2,000+ test shots, I know a lot about them. But there's always more to learn.

BTW, the Z fc also has a nice little Exposure Comp dial. It has a dial's usual advantages.

michaeladawson said:

When I want a retro experience I’ll use my Fujifim bodies. ISO dial, shutter speed dial, and lenses with aperture rings. Retro done right.

Click to expand...

Per my comments above, I also prefer Fuji's approach to retro controls. I'm less fond of X-trans and their high lens prices.

Bye,

OE

I own the Z fc, and I use all dials (and love them). The only detail that I would add: with ISO Auto ON I would like to controll the highest ISO value with the dial, not the lowest one (makes no sense to me). The rest is perfect, exp comp is the most used dial.

Old Ed said:

michaeladawson said:

Old Ed said:

Hi,

I enjoy my Z fc a lot, and I'd buy it again for sure.

However, it does have issues. One is the ISO dial, which seems like an outright design blunder.

Yes, it's pretty. But beauty is as beauty does, and I've found no useful application for it.
If you've found a useful application for yours, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Click to expand...

Seriously? Most people would probably use it to set ISO. Do you also find the shutter speed dial to be totally useless?

Click to expand...

Absolutely not. The shutter speed dial is highly useful for me.

Click to expand...

So, the shutter speed dial is good because you use it, and yet because you don't use the ISO dial, it's a "design blunder"...?? That's unnecessarily emotive language - and a very self-centred view.

The only thing I don't like in the ISO Dial is that I need to push the additional button to change it.

Otherwise, I use it all the time, because camera sets ISO in Auto too high for my taste. Like it may set 3200 easily, where actually it will be fine at 800 or 1600, so I don't rely on auto, if there is no really good light around.