Fuji/Fujica GSW camera -- need a measurement

I have an oddball request for someone who has one of the Fujica GSW680/690 cameras. These are the ones with the 65mm lens -- so not the GW... cameras that have the 90mm. You might know it as a "Texas Leica".

They all use the same lens and basic body design, so any generation of the GSW will do (e.g., GSW690, GSW690II, GSW690III, GSW680III).

My request is this: can you measure the distance from the rear of the lens to the film gate? I don't want you to scratch your glass, but ideally I need the distance between the farthest part of the lens, which might be the glass, and the film gate (those silver rails you can see in this picture).

Thanks, Rob


Image source: ss_kobe_camera

Rob de Loe said:

I have an oddball request for someone who has one of the Fujica GSW680/690 cameras. These are the ones with the 65mm lens -- so not the GW... cameras that have the 90mm. You might know it as a "Texas Leica".

They all use the same lens and basic body design, so any generation of the GSW will do (e.g., GSW690, GSW690II, GSW690III, GSW680III).

My request is this: can you measure the distance from the rear of the lens to the film gate? I don't want you to scratch your glass, but ideally I need the distance between the farthest part of the lens, which might be the glass, and the film gate (those silver rails you can see in this picture).

Thanks, Rob


Image source: ss_kobe_camera

Click to expand...

I see where you’re going with this. With the lens focused to infinity, right?

--
https://blog.kasson.com

JimKasson said:

I see where you’re going with this. With the lens focused to infinity, right?

Click to expand...

Yes, lens needs to be at infinity for this measurement.

The lens looks promising. There's a thorough review here with lots of high resolution samples: https://photojottings.com/fuji-gsw690lll-65mm-f5-6-camera-review/

It seems to be quite sharp at f/8, and still very good wide open at f/5.6. Distortion is mild barrel. One of its major charms is it covers 6x9, which means at minimum a circle of good definition of 100mm. That's enough to allow the largest shift I'd likely ever need to make (25mm).

I've never seen a value for the flange distance, but I'm confident it will at least reach infinity on GFX because someone made an adapter for the precursor lens (the 65mm f/5.6 for the Fujia G90, the interchangeable rangefinder that preceded the GW line). https://www.fatuarte.es/tienda/en/r...-for-fuji-gfx-mount-cameras-with-shutter.html The lens in the GWS cameras is a new optical formula, but the camera body shape is the same so odds are decent that flange it would not be that different.

The catch is how far back the rear element projects behind the flange -- which is why I need that number. Regardless of the flange distance, the rear lens cell can't be closer than 34mm from the sensor (26.7mm for the GFX flange distance, 5mm for the thickness of the Rotafoot, and 0.3mm for just squeaking by). The news is looking good. Over at GetDPI, where I also asked this question, Dominique Schwarzzeit kindly measured hers and reported 42.5mm.

I forgot to qualify my request with "at infinity", but even if Dominique had it at minimum focus distance, it should still clear. It looks like a unit focusing design and I think it's symmetrical or near symmetrical. It focuses no closer than 1m, so I'm guessing there's 3-4mm of travel on the helicoid (same as my Mamiya G 50/4). So even if it's a long travel of 5mm, that would still be 37.5mm, which means it would easily clear.

Fingers crossed.

Don't know if this help since there is no scale but you could get a good idea if you know some other dimension like the diameter of the front element.


Fujinon 65mm f5.6_eng (GSW690)

I think I located the patent for this lens and will have the back focus distance after I process it.

--
Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

Thanks, Bill.

Fujifilm Fujinon-SW 65mm F5.6



Back focus is 41.60mm

Looks very flat with very low radial distortion.

--
Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

bclaff said:

Don't know if this help since there is no scale but you could get a good idea if you know some other dimension like the diameter of the front element.


Fujinon 65mm f5.6_eng (GSW690)

I think I located the patent for this lens and will have the back focus distance after I process it.

Click to expand...

This is amazingly helpful Bill. Thanks so much.

Rob de Loe said:

I've never seen a value for the flange distance, but I'm confident it will at least reach infinity on GFX because someone made an adapter for the precursor lens (the 65mm f/5.6 for the Fujia G90, the interchangeable rangefinder that preceded the GW line). https://www.fatuarte.es/tienda/en/r...-for-fuji-gfx-mount-cameras-with-shutter.html The lens in the GWS cameras is a new optical formula, but the camera body shape is the same so odds are decent that flange it would not be that different.

Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing a line of cameras to my attention which I've never encountered Rob. You do engage in some interesting projects which I enjoy learning about thru you sharing your progress and results!

I've handled or used the later fixed lens Fuji medium format rangefinder cameras which followed, but have never encountered any of the Fujica G690 or related models in the interchangeable lens series. I find it quite interesting, so thanks again!

As a student, I had a Rapid Omega 200 interchangeable lens medium format rangefinder system. It was part of the Omega series mostly made by and associated with Konica, but the last models (like mine) were contracted to Mamiya for manufacture some years before their own Mamiya 6 and Mamiya 7 cameras. So, I still have a sentimental attachment to big rangefinder beasts.

Best of luck to you. I'll look forward to reading more about your progress and future projects.

bclaff said:

Fujifilm Fujinon-SW 65mm F5.6



Back focus is 41.60mm

Looks very flat with very low radial distortion.

Click to expand...

Bill, this is incredible. I'm glad my question caught your eye.

Your modelling confirms that if I build a suitable mount, the lens can be focused to infinity on a GFX camera and should work with the standards on my F-Universalis.

If I compare your helpful side view diagram to the exploded view in the Fuji service manual, it looks like the part that I've outlined with the red box is the mount housing in the exploded view. That screws on from inside the camera with four screws. Removing that should allow me to install a simple replacement mount. Worst case scenario I'd have to attach the lens directly to a recessed board for my F-Universalis to get the needed room (but I don't think that will be necessary).


The part in the side view (left) in the red box seems to be the housing onto which the lens is attached (exploded view, on the right)

TechTalk2 said:

Rob de Loe said:

I've never seen a value for the flange distance, but I'm confident it will at least reach infinity on GFX because someone made an adapter for the precursor lens (the 65mm f/5.6 for the Fujia G90, the interchangeable rangefinder that preceded the GW line). https://www.fatuarte.es/tienda/en/r...-for-fuji-gfx-mount-cameras-with-shutter.html The lens in the GWS cameras is a new optical formula, but the camera body shape is the same so odds are decent that flange it would not be that different.

Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing a line of cameras to my attention which I've never encountered Rob. You do engage in some interesting projects which I enjoy learning about thru you sharing your progress and results!

I've handled or used the later fixed lens Fuji medium format rangefinder cameras which followed, but have never encountered any of the Fujica G690 or related models in the interchangeable lens series. I find it quite interesting, so thanks again!

As a student, I had a Rapid Omega 200 interchangeable lens medium format rangefinder system. It was part of the Omega series mostly made by and associated with Konica, but the last models (like mine) were contracted to Mamiya for manufacture some years before their own Mamiya 6 and Mamiya 7 cameras. So, I still have a sentimental attachment to big rangefinder beasts.

Best of luck to you. I'll look forward to reading more about your progress and future projects.

Click to expand...

I'm always good for a crazy scheme of some kind!

My journey into the world of Fuji medium format range finders has been intriguing. I actually owned a GW690III for a while, but only long enough to really prove to myself that I don't do well with rangefinder cameras! It was a big, solid beast.

Fuji has such a long history in medium format. It's quite remarkable.

Rob de Loe said:

bclaff said:

Don't know if this help since there is no scale but you could get a good idea if you know some other dimension like the diameter of the front element.


Fujinon 65mm f5.6_eng (GSW690)

I think I located the patent for this lens and will have the back focus distance after I process it.

Click to expand...

This is amazingly helpful Bill. Thanks so much.

Click to expand...

I have a large collection of such diagrams that I use in my search for "matching" patents.
(Very helpful in this case.)

But I'd love to hear from anyone by Private Message (PM) who has additional resources such as from brochures and service manuals that I might not have found already online.

--
Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

Ah, the Texas Leica! I have one of these, and break it out from time to time. The negatives are simply gigantic, yet the camera handles, well, kind of like a Leica, well, kind of. It's fun to use.

It's quite large, obviously, and completely unstablized. By far the most important accessory to bring along when I use it is my Manfrotto monopod. Absolutely indispensable. The lens is up to the challenge of the format, if you can just keep camera motion under control. A monopod, if you know how to use it, can be pretty effective. The trick is to think of it as the third leg of a tripod, of which your own legs are the other two.

bclaff said:

Rob de Loe said:

bclaff said:

Don't know if this help since there is no scale but you could get a good idea if you know some other dimension like the diameter of the front element.

I think I located the patent for this lens and will have the back focus distance after I process it.

Click to expand...

This is amazingly helpful Bill. Thanks so much.

Click to expand...

I have a large collection of such diagrams that I use in my search for "matching" patents.
(Very helpful in this case.)

But I'd love to hear from anyone by Private Message (PM) who has additional resources such as from brochures and service manuals that I might not have found already online.

Click to expand...

I'm unable to send a private message, but the link below is to a thread I started on links to information resources with collections of information of the type you mentioned for discontinued equipment. They may be sites with which you're already familiar or perhaps you may find a new one.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4676970

If you have any additional links to add, I'm sure they would be appreciated. Anyone else that knows of additional resources, please add them to the list as well.

I have this camera but it currently has film in it. However, it looks as though you've got your answer. Can't wait to see the results.

It's definitely a great lens on this thing.

Hi,

Wickedly cool!

You guys mess with camera bits the way I mess with radio bits.

When I read the title, I was a bit confused though. I could not figure out why Fuji thought they needed to build a special MF camera for shooting gunshot wounds....

Such thinking comes from 20 years in fire and rescue where I carried a Nikon FA to document scenes. I shot my share of gunshot wounds (among many other things) and didn't feel that I needed a MF camera.

The only rangefinder type Fuji I recall was a really wide pano model. 6x17 was it? I recall one at Arax Camera in Poughkeepsie NY way back when. The owner loved that thing. Was always showing off shots from it.

Stan

--
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer
Once you start down the DSLR path, forever will it dominate your destiny! Consume
your bank account, it will! Like mine, it did!

matteroner said:

I have this camera but it currently has film in it. However, it looks as though you've got your answer. Can't wait to see the results.

It's definitely a great lens on this thing.

Click to expand...

Thanks to Bill and others at GetDPI I do have the info I need.

Bill's work may have saved me money and frustration. I used the drawing and his value for back focus distance to determine how to mount the lens and how much movement room I would have on my F-Universalis.

In order to get useful movements on my F-Universalis, I would have to mount it on a recessed lens board with a custom hole. This would be straightforward, but I'm not enthusiastic about going back to lenses on boards. Another option would be to remove it entirely from the housing, keeping only the shutter/aperture mechanism and the cells. This is what I did with the Fujinon GX lenses I rehoused.

I'm on the fence... I haven't seen digital samples from the Mamiya 65mm f/4 for the Mamiya 7, but given how my Mamiya G 50/4 and G 150/4.5 perform on my GFX 50R, I have a high degree of confidence that the Mamiya 65/4 would be excellent. Unfortunately, it also needs a custom board -- and would cost 2.5x the Fuji lens by the time I'm done.

This isn't mission critical so I have some time to mull it over. I can't resist a fun project like this (but I also don't like throwing money away). Decisions decisions....

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

Wickedly cool!

You guys mess with camera bits the way I mess with radio bits.

When I read the title, I was a bit confused though. I could not figure out why Fuji thought they needed to build a special MF camera for shooting gunshot wounds....

Such thinking comes from 20 years in fire and rescue where I carried a Nikon FA to document scenes. I shot my share of gunshot wounds (among many other things) and didn't feel that I needed a MF camera.

The only rangefinder type Fuji I recall was a really wide pano model. 6x17 was it? I recall one at Arax Camera in Poughkeepsie NY way back when. The owner loved that thing. Was always showing off shots from it.

Stan

Click to expand...

It's a state of mind thing Stan!

I have a friend who is an extremely capable renovator and builder. He thinks nothing of moving walls, taking roofs off to extend them or change their pitch -- you name it. I on the other hand think of walls and roofs as being a bit more static and fixed.

Now old lenses, what the manufacturer created is just a starting point as far as I'm concerned!

TechTalk2 said:

Thanks for bringing a line of cameras to my attention which I've never encountered Rob. You do engage in some interesting projects which I enjoy learning about thru you sharing your progress and results!

I've handled or used the later fixed lens Fuji medium format rangefinder cameras which followed, but have never encountered any of the Fujica G690 or related models in the interchangeable lens series. I find it quite interesting, so thanks again!

Click to expand...

I have a couple of these great cameras. The most remarkable lens is the Fujinon SWS50mm f/5.6. It covers quite a wide angle on 6x9 film!

It should be interesting to see it used for shifts on a modern digital Fuji.

There's a page on my website covering the lenses for the Fujica G690 series: http://www.lallement.com/pictures/lenses.htm

Cheers!

Abbazz

Abbazz said:

TechTalk2 said:

Thanks for bringing a line of cameras to my attention which I've never encountered Rob. You do engage in some interesting projects which I enjoy learning about thru you sharing your progress and results!

I've handled or used the later fixed lens Fuji medium format rangefinder cameras which followed, but have never encountered any of the Fujica G690 or related models in the interchangeable lens series. I find it quite interesting, so thanks again!

Click to expand...

I have a couple of these great cameras. The most remarkable lens is the Fujinon SWS50mm f/5.6. It covers quite a wide angle on 6x9 film!

It should be interesting to see it used for shifts on a modern digital Fuji.

There's a page on my website covering the lenses for the Fujica G690 series: http://www.lallement.com/pictures/lenses.htm

Cheers!

Abbazz

Click to expand...

Thanks Abbazz. Your web site is one of the resources I used to learn more about these lenses.

Rob de Loe said:

In order to get useful movements on my F-Universalis, I would have to mount it on a recessed lens board with a custom hole. This would be straightforward, but I'm not enthusiastic about going back to lenses on boards. Another option would be to remove it entirely from the housing, keeping only the shutter/aperture mechanism and the cells. This is what I did with the Fujinon GX lenses I rehoused.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm being a bit thick, but how do you use a lens on a bellows-focusing view camera if it isn't on a board? Objektivplatte 141x141, ya?