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Lumix S5II slaps A7 IV

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Mr_Win said:
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?

In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
sony has

33mp full time, I'd take over HHHR as I can do a stitch to do that
Click to expand...
HHHR does a number of things stiching does not do including dealing with moving objects
Mr_Win said:
focus bracketing is in the early stages of sony, it can happen in firmware

interval shooting with exposure leveling, sony has had that for ages
Click to expand...
Where is it? I see some strange stuff on AF. Why on earth I would use autofocus on interval shooting just to risk focus breathing is unknow. Exposure leveling which ensures there are no abrupt changes has not been seen
Mr_Win said:
cant edit raws, but does have L M S sizes
Click to expand...
How does this help me produce jpeg for the pictures i think they are right? I might as well save all jpeg selection
Mr_Win said:
IBIS cant be helped on this model, certainly is not bad, just not on the same level.

sony also takes a faster CFA if needed

slightly faster mechanical shutter

AF is known, not the first iteration

an overabundance of lenses, e-mount is considerably stronger than L, sigma is shared, samyang, tamron only sony.
Click to expand...
around 3x the volume. But two years ago was 5x the number of lenses
Mr_Win said:
it's not completely hopeless
Click to expand...
 
Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena
Click to expand...
Only in not into any existing system.

I for one would never trade a sleek and compact Sony camera for a large, heavy and bulky Panasonic system.
Interceptor121 said:
Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
Most likely.

Several professionals claim that the video capability of the A7IV is terrific for real life productions (and not some stupid shooting at a rotating fan to provoke rolling shutter artefacts). But then professionals are into content and substance.
 
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Tristimulus said:
Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena
Click to expand...
Only in not into any existing system.

I for one would never trade a sleek and compact Sony camera for a large, heavy and bulky Panasonic system.
Click to expand...
Where is large and heavy exactly? Weight difference is like 100 grams most of the weight is driven by lenses and if you want good quality glass there is no escape
Tristimulus said:
Tristimulus said:
Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
Most likely.

Several professionals claim that the video capability of the A7IV is terrific for real life productions (and not some stupid shooting at a rotating fan to provoke rolling shutter artefacts). But then professionals are into content and substance.
Click to expand...
Who? Is just a 4K video with some reasonable codec nothing amazing. Slog3 is very good but a camera is not made just to press record. it needs exposure tools especially if monitor support is weak. The LCD are low rez for starter

I have here a nice £6K camera that does not have a screen to see the shooting parameters when I use a recorder. For interviews you need a recorder because it gives more autonomy and no overheating compared to recording to card.

I raised the issue with Sony and asked why the camera has a viewfinder view on the LCD for photo and not video and am waiting for an answer.

Any camera record view when you press the red button to say that Sony digital consumer camera in any price range have professional level video feature is a very big overstatement the stuff lacks the very basic to actually integrate with the tools you use at professional level and on camera it does not have anything other than zebra

false colour, waveform, vectorscope not available not seen.

I am sure this is deliberate because on the professional segment which is run by a separate organisation all of those things work perfectly but consumer part seems to talk very little to professional part

On panasonic side this seems to be working much better

So to start saying this is 'professional level' is a bit optimistic that someone can shoot a wedding on a sony maybe, to shoot a vlog sure

If you can point me to those professionals to see what they use and how the work around the limitations of the set up I would be very glad. I have been watching hours of video and tutorials and learnt very little

In fact lots of wrong information for example on how to power the camera from outside powerbank or power supply zero accurate info. Which makes me think there are no professional users in abundance

But again I will be very glad to be pointed at sources so please if you have them send them across
 
Interceptor121 said:
Tristimulus said:
Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena
Click to expand...
Only in not into any existing system.

I for one would never trade a sleek and compact Sony camera for a large, heavy and bulky Panasonic system.
Click to expand...
Where is large and heavy exactly? Weight difference is like 100 grams most of the weight is driven by lenses and if you want good quality glass there is no escape
Click to expand...
lenses like the sony 70-200ii prove that is wrong.
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
Most likely.

Several professionals claim that the video capability of the A7IV is terrific for real life productions (and not some stupid shooting at a rotating fan to provoke rolling shutter artefacts). But then professionals are into content and substance.
Click to expand...
I have here a nice £6K camera that does not have a screen to see the shooting parameters when I use a recorder. For interviews you need a recorder because it gives more autonomy and no overheating compared to recording to card.
Click to expand...
total nonsense.
Interceptor121 said:
Any camera record view when you press the red button to say that Sony digital consumer camera in any price range have professional level video feature is a very big overstatement the stuff lacks the very basic to actually integrate with the tools you use at professional level and on camera it does not have anything other than zebra

false colour, waveform, vectorscope not available not seen.
Click to expand...
i used to shoot video full-time, for a living, without any of that, how did i survive, lol
Interceptor121 said:
So to start saying this is 'professional level' is a bit optimistic that someone can shoot a wedding on a sony maybe, to shoot a vlog sure
Click to expand...
"Panasonic says the S5 II is aimed at social media 'content creators'" https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-s5-ii-dc-s5-iix-initial-review

i'd like to see how somebody shooting vlogs for social media can use waveforms and vectorscopes.
 
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Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena

Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
I massively prefer the 33mp sensor, it's far more versatile for stills.

The A7IV autofocus is also clearly better as shown in a few reviews, Panny barely on par with the A7III for stills.

The problem with Sony is their lazyness with firmware/software, there are many things that could be implemented at very low cost but they don't do it.

I'm pretty sure our chief programmer (former Rovio project director) could make a better app then theirs in example.

This goes for every manufacturer though, many features left out "because we always did it like this" like the 30" shutter limit in bracketing, why the hell is that even a thing?!?

Panasonic did well in packing the camera with all the possible bells and whistles, even if their AF tech is not there yet, it's probably good enough for video, and if i was a video oriented guy (and I'm not) I would seriously consider Panasonic today if I was upgrading from micro four thirds, APS-C or smartphone.
 
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MILC man said:
Interceptor121 said:
Tristimulus said:
Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena
Click to expand...
Only in not into any existing system.

I for one would never trade a sleek and compact Sony camera for a large, heavy and bulky Panasonic system.
Click to expand...
Where is large and heavy exactly? Weight difference is like 100 grams most of the weight is driven by lenses and if you want good quality glass there is no escape
Click to expand...
lenses like the sony 70-200ii prove that is wrong.
Click to expand...
One out of many after 10 years of the format I would not say it makes a case
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
Most likely.

Several professionals claim that the video capability of the A7IV is terrific for real life productions (and not some stupid shooting at a rotating fan to provoke rolling shutter artefacts). But then professionals are into content and substance.
Click to expand...
I have here a nice £6K camera that does not have a screen to see the shooting parameters when I use a recorder. For interviews you need a recorder because it gives more autonomy and no overheating compared to recording to card.
Click to expand...
total nonsense.
Click to expand...
Really tell me where is this and by the way do you own an external recorder or monitor?
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
Any camera record view when you press the red button to say that Sony digital consumer camera in any price range have professional level video feature is a very big overstatement the stuff lacks the very basic to actually integrate with the tools you use at professional level and on camera it does not have anything other than zebra

false colour, waveform, vectorscope not available not seen.
Click to expand...
i used to shoot video full-time, for a living, without any of that, how did i survive, lol
Click to expand...
Maybe your scenes were not demanding or you were just putting up with stuff
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
So to start saying this is 'professional level' is a bit optimistic that someone can shoot a wedding on a sony maybe, to shoot a vlog sure
Click to expand...
"Panasonic says the S5 II is aimed at social media 'content creators'" https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-s5-ii-dc-s5-iix-initial-review

i'd like to see how somebody shooting vlogs for social media can use waveforms and vectorscopes.
Click to expand...
They don't say that

Meet the LUMIX S5II - beginning of a new phase for LUMIX. With unlimited creative possibilities, these versatile hybrid full-frame mirrorless cameras will help you capture stunning content in any situation.

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consum...meras/lumix-s-full-frame-cameras/dc-s5m2.html

--
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My flickr sets http://www.flickr.com/photos/interceptor121/
Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/interceptor121
Underwater Photo and Video Blog http://interceptor121.com
Deer Photography workshops https://interceptor121.com/2021/09/26/2021-22-deer-photography-workshops-in-woburn/
If you want to get in touch don't send me a PM rather contact me directly at my website/social media
 
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?
Click to expand...
0, none of the stuff you listed matters to me. Here is what I personally would love to have in a Sony FE body:
  • Sweep panorama with exposure control & RAW/HEIF output (much more useful than handheld high res mode IMO)
  • sRAW/mRAW/HEIF outputs on the higher res bodies
  • 10 bit internal video
S5II only has the least important of the 3 to me (10 bit video) and would prompt me to give up 1/4 of my resolution as well as lens choices. For example L mount still doesn't have a superzoom to replace my Tamron 28-200 and for me the Sigma 45 2.8 is a downgrade from my faster SY 45 1.8.

So if the S5 II's features make L mount a better system than Sony FE for you, cool, be my guest, go buy one and shoot it.... but the suggestion that S5II having more things you like than the A7IV means L mount is a better system for everybody is ridiculous and narcissistic. Bodies don't exist in isolation, they are parts of systems and while L mount is not bad FE mount "slaps it".
Interceptor121 said:
In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
--
Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/
 
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sportyaccordy said:
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?
Click to expand...
0, none of the stuff you listed matters to me. Here is what I personally would love to have in a Sony FE body:
  • Sweep panorama with exposure control & RAW/HEIF output (much more useful than handheld high res mode IMO)
Click to expand...
Personally I would actually like to have both. The A7iv with high-res mode would have been great. They clearly only didn't do it so it didn't step on the R series toes, which is a big pity.
sportyaccordy said:
  • sRAW/mRAW/HEIF outputs on the higher res bodies
  • 10 bit internal video
Click to expand...
I may be misunderstanding, but isn't this already a thing? I have this...

sportyaccordy said:
S5II only has the least important of the 3 to me (10 bit video) and would prompt me to give up 1/4 of my resolution as well as lens choices. For example L mount still doesn't have a superzoom to replace my Tamron 28-200 and for me the Sigma 45 2.8 is a downgrade from my faster SY 45 1.8.
Click to expand...
I just did a lineup of lenses in a spreadsheet, just for the GAS attack I was having regarding whether I wanted to switch to the S5ii as a system.

If I was stuck with only Sony lenses, it would be a no-brainer.

But tamron and samyang options fill in a lot of niches with high quality, cheap and compact lenses (such as teles) which L-mount either has no answer for, or their version is triple the cost (which is fine for some people I'm sure, but not for me).

sportyaccordy said:
So if the S5 II's features make L mount a better system than Sony FE for you, cool, be my guest, go buy one and shoot it.... but the suggestion that S5II having more things you like than the A7IV means L mount is a better system for everybody is ridiculous and narcissistic.
Click to expand...
Oh yeh this guy was definitely being "very typical hyperbolic internet person #3". Benefit of the doubt, I assume he was being a troll on purpose to generate discussion.

sportyaccordy said:
Bodies don't exist in isolation, they are parts of systems and while L mount is not bad FE mount "slaps it".
sportyaccordy said:
In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Bender79ita said:
Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena

Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
I massively prefer the 33mp sensor, it's far more versatile for stills.

The A7IV autofocus is also clearly better as shown in a few reviews, Panny barely on par with the A7III for stills.

The problem with Sony is their lazyness with firmware/software, there are many things that could be implemented at very low cost but they don't do it.

I'm pretty sure our chief programmer (former Rovio project director) could make a better app then theirs in example.

This goes for every manufacturer though, many features left out "because we always did it like this" like the 30" shutter limit in bracketing, why the hell is that even a thing?!?

Panasonic did well in packing the camera with all the possible bells and whistles, even if their AF tech is not there yet, it's probably good enough for video, and if i was a video oriented guy (and I'm not) I would seriously consider Panasonic today if I was upgrading from micro four thirds, APS-C or smartphone.
Click to expand...
Regarding the app, after having used Lumix Sync with the S1 for years, I have to say that honestly Imaging Edge with the A7 IV is less bad.

Connectivity problems with Lumix Sync are notorious.
 
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?

In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
Those functionality still doesn't help the Panasonic, especially when the shot isn't even in focus or you don't have the lens for it. As far as practical usability for stills, the A74 still is more practical most things considered.

As for video, I'd take shutter angle, better IBIS, in camera exposure tools like false color and call it a good day. Really Sony been skimping especially on video tools for their mirrorless hybrids, even my iPhone has shutter angle now.
 
Interceptor121 said:
MILC man said:
Interceptor121 said:
Tristimulus said:
Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena
Click to expand...
Only in not into any existing system.

I for one would never trade a sleek and compact Sony camera for a large, heavy and bulky Panasonic system.
Click to expand...
Where is large and heavy exactly? Weight difference is like 100 grams most of the weight is driven by lenses and if you want good quality glass there is no escape
Click to expand...
lenses like the sony 70-200ii prove that is wrong.
Click to expand...
One out of many after 10 years of the format I would not say it makes a case
Click to expand...
no, the history of milc lenses has been lighter and smaller for the same or better capabilities, there are *many* examples of that.

your claim that camera body size doesn't matter was ridiculous.
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
Most likely.

Several professionals claim that the video capability of the A7IV is terrific for real life productions (and not some stupid shooting at a rotating fan to provoke rolling shutter artefacts). But then professionals are into content and substance.
Click to expand...
I have here a nice £6K camera that does not have a screen to see the shooting parameters when I use a recorder. For interviews you need a recorder because it gives more autonomy and no overheating compared to recording to card.
Click to expand...
total nonsense.
Click to expand...
Really tell me where is this and by the way do you own an external recorder or monitor?
Click to expand...
your claim that interviews require the use of an external recorder was wrong.
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Any camera record view when you press the red button to say that Sony digital consumer camera in any price range have professional level video feature is a very big overstatement the stuff lacks the very basic to actually integrate with the tools you use at professional level and on camera it does not have anything other than zebra

false colour, waveform, vectorscope not available not seen.
Click to expand...
i used to shoot video full-time, for a living, without any of that, how did i survive, lol
Click to expand...
Maybe your scenes were not demanding or you were just putting up with stuff
Click to expand...
no, it's because i know how to operate a camera and i'm familiar with the gear that i use.
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
Interceptor121 said:
So to start saying this is 'professional level' is a bit optimistic that someone can shoot a wedding on a sony maybe, to shoot a vlog sure
Click to expand...
"Panasonic says the S5 II is aimed at social media 'content creators'" https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-s5-ii-dc-s5-iix-initial-review

i'd like to see how somebody shooting vlogs for social media can use waveforms and vectorscopes.
Click to expand...
They don't say that
Click to expand...
panasonic specifically told dpr that, per the quote and link that i posted.

now tell us how you use waveforms and vectorscopes with vlogging :-0
 
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Djehuty said:
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?

In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
Those functionality still doesn't help the Panasonic, especially when the shot isn't even in focus or you don't have the lens for it. As far as practical usability for stills, the A74 still is more practical most things considered.
Click to expand...
None of those features require more than single focus which works fine on the Lumix cameras. Have a look at my flicker or instagram to see what the issues are instead of thinking theory?

Other than birds I have not had a focus issue with my lumix mft rigs the rest is hoaxing for most
Djehuty said:
As for video, I'd take shutter angle, better IBIS, in camera exposure tools like false color and call it a good day. Really Sony been skimping especially on video tools for their mirrorless hybrids, even my iPhone has shutter angle now.
Click to expand...
 
Interceptor121 said:
Djehuty said:
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?

In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
Those functionality still doesn't help the Panasonic, especially when the shot isn't even in focus or you don't have the lens for it. As far as practical usability for stills, the A74 still is more practical most things considered.
Click to expand...
None of those features require more than single focus which works fine on the Lumix cameras. Have a look at my flicker or instagram to see what the issues are instead of thinking theory?

Other than birds I have not had a focus issue with my lumix mft rigs the rest is hoaxing for most
Interceptor121 said:
As for video, I'd take shutter angle, better IBIS, in camera exposure tools like false color and call it a good day. Really Sony been skimping especially on video tools for their mirrorless hybrids, even my iPhone has shutter angle now.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The DFD wobble and unreliable AF-C it's been always there all the way up to the newest GH6. It's shown in ALL reviews.

It is unbelievable you have not seen it in MFT, it is extremely obvious even for talking heads (the background pulse).

For BIF or difficult AFC it's simply worthless, unable to track.
 
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Bender79ita said:
Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena

Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
I massively prefer the 33mp sensor, it's far more versatile for stills.

The A7IV autofocus is also clearly better as shown in a few reviews, Panny barely on par with the A7III for stills.

The problem with Sony is their lazyness with firmware/software, there are many things that could be implemented at very low cost but they don't do it.
Click to expand...
certainly on the video firmware side, it's rather bizarre how they aren't updating the flagship a1 with some of the features on the a7iv/a7rv.

even simple things that can't take much in the way of resources haven't been implemented, like the reg flash shoot set that the a7iv got: Sony A7 IV FW 1.10 "Reg. Flash Shooting Set" = Only for Sony Flashes?!: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

very few people care about that, but it's part of the bigger problem.
Bender79ita said:
Panasonic did well in packing the camera with all the possible bells and whistles, even if their AF tech is not there yet, it's probably good enough for video, and if i was a video oriented guy (and I'm not) I would seriously consider Panasonic today if I was upgrading from micro four thirds, APS-C or smartphone.
Click to expand...
if you had event video experience you wouldn't be so quick to jump on panasonic, because e-mount has a far better selection of video-oriented lenses, including at least five(?) pz motorized zooms, a purpose-built sony drone for e-mount bodies, the ability to share mics/lenses with pro sony bodies, etc.

looking at cinema cameras, panasonic is mostly pl-mount or ef-mount: Cinema Cameras Line-up | Broadcast and Professional AV | Panasonic Global

none of their studio cameras use l-mount: System Cameras Line-up | Broadcast and Professional AV | Panasonic Global

their prosumer gear is all baby-sensor size, again no l-mount: Professional Camera Recorders Line-up | Broadcast and Professional AV | Panasonic Global

so while panasonic has a long and storied history with pro video, they made a mess out of l-mount, and i'm not talking about the dfd disaster; for instance is there an af adapter to mount l-mount lenses on panasonic pl-mount pro bodies?
 
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Nirurin said:
sportyaccordy said:
0, none of the stuff you listed matters to me. Here is what I personally would love to have in a Sony FE body:
  • Sweep panorama with exposure control & RAW/HEIF output (much more useful than handheld high res mode IMO)
Click to expand...
Personally I would actually like to have both. The A7iv with high-res mode would have been great. They clearly only didn't do it so it didn't step on the R series toes, which is a big pity.
Click to expand...
Yea that was a clear protection for the higher models. Ironically the Rs need it less IMO.
Nirurin said:
Nirurin said:
  • sRAW/mRAW/HEIF outputs on the higher res bodies
  • 10 bit internal video
Click to expand...
I may be misunderstanding, but isn't this already a thing? I have this...
Click to expand...
The A7IV does have it; I don't have it in my III. I'm not sure the IV has sRAW/mRAW either.
Nirurin said:
Nirurin said:
S5II only has the least important of the 3 to me (10 bit video) and would prompt me to give up 1/4 of my resolution as well as lens choices. For example L mount still doesn't have a superzoom to replace my Tamron 28-200 and for me the Sigma 45 2.8 is a downgrade from my faster SY 45 1.8.
Click to expand...
I just did a lineup of lenses in a spreadsheet, just for the GAS attack I was having regarding whether I wanted to switch to the S5ii as a system.

If I was stuck with only Sony lenses, it would be a no-brainer.

But tamron and samyang options fill in a lot of niches with high quality, cheap and compact lenses (such as teles) which L-mount either has no answer for, or their version is triple the cost (which is fine for some people I'm sure, but not for me).
Click to expand...
Exactly; my only current Sony lens is the 16-35/4 ZA. I've tried a bunch of Sony branded lenses and they're generally not bad but I just prefer 3rd party offerings 99% of the time. There are also lenses on FE mount you can't get anywhere else.
Nirurin said:
Nirurin said:
So if the S5 II's features make L mount a better system than Sony FE for you, cool, be my guest, go buy one and shoot it.... but the suggestion that S5II having more things you like than the A7IV means L mount is a better system for everybody is ridiculous and narcissistic.
Click to expand...
Oh yeh this guy was definitely being "very typical hyperbolic internet person #3". Benefit of the doubt, I assume he was being a troll on purpose to generate discussion.
Click to expand...
I do question the purpose and wisdom of bashing a camera one has no plans to buy anyway. Dude supposedly has an A1, what does he care what competes with the A7IV. It's also entirely possible to praise the S5II without bashing the A7IV but what do I know..........
Nirurin said:
Nirurin said:
Bodies don't exist in isolation, they are parts of systems and while L mount is not bad FE mount "slaps it".
Nirurin said:
In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
yysc said:
Interceptor121 said:
Djehuty said:
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?

In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
Those functionality still doesn't help the Panasonic, especially when the shot isn't even in focus or you don't have the lens for it. As far as practical usability for stills, the A74 still is more practical most things considered.
Click to expand...
None of those features require more than single focus which works fine on the Lumix cameras. Have a look at my flicker or instagram to see what the issues are instead of thinking theory?

Other than birds I have not had a focus issue with my lumix mft rigs the rest is hoaxing for most
yysc said:
As for video, I'd take shutter angle, better IBIS, in camera exposure tools like false color and call it a good day. Really Sony been skimping especially on video tools for their mirrorless hybrids, even my iPhone has shutter angle now.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The DFD wobble and unreliable AF-C it's been always there all the way up to the newest GH6. It's shown in ALL reviews.

It is unbelievable you have not seen it in MFT, it is extremely obvious even for talking heads (the background pulse).

For BIF or difficult AFC it's simply worthless, unable to track.
Click to expand...
there's two different wobbles, the AF (DFD) and ultrawide stabilization. With panasonic, they have micro jitters with the ibis when it cant handle a specific scene, it's not perfect.
 
Mr_Win said:
yysc said:
Interceptor121 said:
Djehuty said:
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?

In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
Those functionality still doesn't help the Panasonic, especially when the shot isn't even in focus or you don't have the lens for it. As far as practical usability for stills, the A74 still is more practical most things considered.
Click to expand...
None of those features require more than single focus which works fine on the Lumix cameras. Have a look at my flicker or instagram to see what the issues are instead of thinking theory?

Other than birds I have not had a focus issue with my lumix mft rigs the rest is hoaxing for most
Mr_Win said:
As for video, I'd take shutter angle, better IBIS, in camera exposure tools like false color and call it a good day. Really Sony been skimping especially on video tools for their mirrorless hybrids, even my iPhone has shutter angle now.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The DFD wobble and unreliable AF-C it's been always there all the way up to the newest GH6. It's shown in ALL reviews.

It is unbelievable you have not seen it in MFT, it is extremely obvious even for talking heads (the background pulse).

For BIF or difficult AFC it's simply worthless, unable to track.
Click to expand...
there's two different wobbles, the AF (DFD) and ultrawide stabilization. With panasonic, they have micro jitters with the ibis when it cant handle a specific scene, it's not perfect.
Click to expand...
Yes, and in addition to the microjitters, with the S1 at 24mm and FF 4K30 the corners were visibly wobbling a lot. Very distracting.

While the IBIS is less effective in the A7M4 it does not show the behaviour above.
 
Last edited:
Sir Jake said:
The link you provided is dead for me, I'm assuming you are talking about this video:


I'm more surprised at the low light AF comparison. The auto ISO worked so much better on the A7IV, the auto ISO is more responsive.
Click to expand...
This one

 
MILC man said:
Interceptor121 said:
Tristimulus said:
Interceptor121 said:
There are obviously issues with limited choice for L-Mount however at $1,999 this is a serious contender in the low megapixel arena
Click to expand...
Only in not into any existing system.

I for one would never trade a sleek and compact Sony camera for a large, heavy and bulky Panasonic system.
Click to expand...
Where is large and heavy exactly? Weight difference is like 100 grams most of the weight is driven by lenses and if you want good quality glass there is no escape
Click to expand...
lenses like the sony 70-200ii prove that is wrong.
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
Then you may want more pixels but the IQ and ergonomics are really good

I hope this drives sony to improve their video capabilities!
Click to expand...
Most likely.

Several professionals claim that the video capability of the A7IV is terrific for real life productions (and not some stupid shooting at a rotating fan to provoke rolling shutter artefacts). But then professionals are into content and substance.
Click to expand...
I have here a nice £6K camera that does not have a screen to see the shooting parameters when I use a recorder. For interviews you need a recorder because it gives more autonomy and no overheating compared to recording to card.
Click to expand...
total nonsense.
Click to expand...
agree . i think he needs to read the manual.
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
Any camera record view when you press the red button to say that Sony digital consumer camera in any price range have professional level video feature is a very big overstatement the stuff lacks the very basic to actually integrate with the tools you use at professional level and on camera it does not have anything other than zebra

false colour, waveform, vectorscope not available not seen.
Click to expand...
i used to shoot video full-time, for a living, without any of that, how did i survive, lol
Click to expand...
exactly. my freeworld 7inch monitor has all the tools ive never used them once.
MILC man said:
MILC man said:
So to start saying this is 'professional level' is a bit optimistic that someone can shoot a wedding on a sony maybe, to shoot a vlog sure
Click to expand...
"Panasonic says the S5 II is aimed at social media 'content creators'" https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-s5-ii-dc-s5-iix-initial-review

i'd like to see how somebody shooting vlogs for social media can use waveforms and vectorscopes.
Click to expand...
 
Mr_Win said:
yysc said:
Interceptor121 said:
Djehuty said:
Interceptor121 said:
sportyaccordy said:
I agree that Sony needs to step up on video.... but for the vast majority of ILC folks for whom video is not a priority the A7IV is a better camera (and FE mount is a better system).
Click to expand...
The functionality is lacking a great deal compared to panasonic quick list for you
  • Live composite
  • Hand held high resolution in camera
  • Focus bracketing
  • Interval shooting with exposure leveling
  • Edit RAWs in camera
  • Better IBIS
I would agree that the IQ is the same of the A7III but how many more pictures will you be able to take because of the functionality above vs how many times will the camera miss focus?

In camera functionality of Sony range is rather basic to be frank and needs improvement

And so does their firmware development update process
Click to expand...
Those functionality still doesn't help the Panasonic, especially when the shot isn't even in focus or you don't have the lens for it. As far as practical usability for stills, the A74 still is more practical most things considered.
Click to expand...
None of those features require more than single focus which works fine on the Lumix cameras. Have a look at my flicker or instagram to see what the issues are instead of thinking theory?

Other than birds I have not had a focus issue with my lumix mft rigs the rest is hoaxing for most
Mr_Win said:
As for video, I'd take shutter angle, better IBIS, in camera exposure tools like false color and call it a good day. Really Sony been skimping especially on video tools for their mirrorless hybrids, even my iPhone has shutter angle now.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The DFD wobble and unreliable AF-C it's been always there all the way up to the newest GH6. It's shown in ALL reviews.

It is unbelievable you have not seen it in MFT, it is extremely obvious even for talking heads (the background pulse).

For BIF or difficult AFC it's simply worthless, unable to track.
Click to expand...
there's two different wobbles, the AF (DFD) and ultrawide stabilization. With panasonic, they have micro jitters with the ibis when it cant handle a specific scene, it's not perfect.
Click to expand...
I have never seen this jitter of IBIS. The issue with IBIS is warping as the lenses are distortion corrected there is no jitter. The IBIS of my A1 is very basic jitter or not most scenes I could take before are now unesable with comparable focal lenght

For the AF it does not bother me but to be frank CAF I shoot max 7 fps don' need more birds 10 fps maybe 15 fps don't need more frames to delete

The good thing of Sony is that you can deactivate distortion correction so on a gimbal it does not warp as much however there are many situations where I did not need my gimbal while now is used more

I look into the cameras I use in detail I do all the tests before taking them into a shoot normally for 2 months before some real work and I talk out of my experience not youtube
 
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