After Trying A A7R5

  • Thread starter Thread starter ProDude
  • Start date Start date
I've come to the conclusion that for ME (probably nobody else on this forum or maybe a few) I won't be committing to a Sony body till they produce a:

* 50-60mp sensor with BSI and Stacked with a very very fast speed sensor to eliminate any rolling shutter.

* Have the updated and maybe even more so improved AI chips for best subject tracking in it.

* Keep that 9.7 Million Dot EVF but speed it up so it doesn't drop it's frame rate when shooting.

* Has the screen of at least the A7R5 design

* I don't care if it has a mechanical shutter, better yet something like the Z9 Nikon but have it be so there are NO drawbacks such as use with a flash sync speeds or issues with LED lighting.

I'm pretty sure there is a very high possibility if a A1MkII comes out it will be as described above. But if they bring out any hammers forget about it. Guess the next year or so will be quite revealing as to what is coming out. I don't see Sony resting on their laurels not updating the A1 at this point. Down a nearby road are some high performing Nikon and Canon's on the horizon. Time for Sony to step things up a notch.
Honestly, I'd skip the A7r5 and just get the A1, been around the block with just about everything and nothing is as compact/fast with exceptional iq like the A1 currently or for the foreseeable!
Once you start using these newer style bodies, the A1 body feels especially annoying. As good as the camera is, it does not sit right to pay for something you don’t love.

I would say the ignorance is bliss factor weighs heavily against the A1, not a lot of folks have used it, safer to spend less on camera these days, they’re all so darn powerful.
The issue you've got is with the top left dial? Other than that looks like any other gen4 body.

Maybe it's the lack of separation between photo and video setting?
The left stuff is borderline useless

switching AF->MF during video or Vice versa, impossible during a live shoot
actually very useful and so is the drive dial
have you used a non flagship camera? It’s ridiculously simple as is
the double decker dial on the right is far superior of an upgrade in practice, much easier because it is clear and concise. You know what mode of video you are on, even with the camera off
that dial is simply a mode dial which is much more static than the left dial you would need another control concentric to be of some use as a minimum drive mode and then you are left with something else for focus which will be another dial of some shape

The ergonomics of two dials are just fine
it’s not that simple

that mode switch gives you 3 custom modes for stills, 3 for video, 3 for S&Q

not only is it faster, it’s more intuitive

When dealing with shooting mode, video is tied to s firmware, photos is tied to hardware, which is the opposite of intuitive
I have no idea what you are talking about but I do not like the idea of a mode dial and autofocus dial without the drive

The drive is essential I do not want to navigate menus to tell the camera to do burst speed 2. Thats ok for a camera used for statics stuff not for a fast one
there is no menu digging involved.............
the repurposed exposure comp dial, a massive improvement. SLOG3 requires +1.7 ev, a dynamic EC is possible on the A1, if you’re willing to sacrifice that dial, not intuitive and the controls are more difficult afterwards.
not true slog3 exposes fine on the A1 where it is and if you wanted to overexpose you would do it in manual
+1.7 is EC in auto modes, that should be self explanatory, I often use other modes outside manual, like shutter and aperture priority.
Nope is a bad idea the camera exposes fine as is. The camera does have some challenges as it adjusts exposure too fast but the calculations are fine and +1.7 will clip a lot as soon as you have some light in the frame. Dialling overexposure point blank is a bad recipe on any camera system
turns out, you dont have much experience with SLOG3
and yes I’ve used the a9 for a number of years and the a1 for a number of weeks. Quite frankly, I won’t go back to an EC dial body, that is the biggest annoyance. The the mode dial is less annoying, I can work with it.
There is nothing wrong with the A1 body controls actually the only ergonomics issue is the non articulated lcd and the position of the remote shutter control
i can guarantee these changes on the A7R5 regarding the body, will make it to the A1 mii in a few years, nothing wrong isn’t the same as not optimized
I do not like cameras with a single dial they are a bad idea and just good for static shooters

If there is one thing that is good about the A1 is the body controls if you don't need them probably you don't fit the use case for the camera but there is no point wanting the ergonomics to be destroyed for those who actually like the settings
since your against the EC dial, you're also against having an EXTRA LOCKABLE WHEEL? That's just silly

there is no change in the ergonomics, the EC wheel is repurposed, which you CANNOT do on the A1
 
Bs! What sony cam has 50fps with full af, or live nd, or handheld starscapes, or live composite! The new a7rv has that cool screen, thag's why you buy it! Silly!
With such a tiny sensor you need more bells and whistles just like a smartphone for that price or who will buy it especially with that dreadful slow glass.
Oh I know........my 25 f1.2 Pro lens is so slow I can barely use it. The Sigma 56 f1.4 DC is just so horribly slow it's a slouch. The other f2.8 zoom Pro glass I use with that combo is just so useless compared to your precious FF glass. I guess their being sharp edge to edge is just a burden so why should I bother. Its obvious you've NEVER touched nor worked with one in the real world or you wouldn't have spouted off such absurd things about the OM-1. There have been several Youtube's out there by seasoned photographers that have sold off their A1 for an OM-1 as it actually out tracked their flying birds. Go figure. Why don't you go online to Flickr.com sometime and see the results that are out there before you make a fool out of yourself.

That said I enjoyed the week I spent with the A7R5. It's a great tool, as said just didn't bring anything to my table that would encourage me to part with the $$ for it. I've owned several Sony bodies along the way. I have nothing but good things to say about them, but they are NOT the only game in town that's for sure. We all need to use our tools for their intended purpose, and if they don't meet our needs, THAT is the time to move on. I have no need to move on I guess. LOL

--
Name the gear and I've probably owned it and used it.
 
Last edited:
Bs! What sony cam has 50fps with full af, or live nd, or handheld starscapes, or live composite! The new a7rv has that cool screen, thag's why you buy it! Silly!
With such a tiny sensor you need more bells and whistles just like a smartphone for that price or who will buy it especially with that dreadful slow glass.
Oh I know........my 25 f1.2 Pro lens is so slow I can barely use it. The Sigma 56 f1.4 DC is just so horribly slow it's a slouch.
That 1.2 give a equivalent DOF of approximately 2.4 and that f1.4 give a DOF of a 2.8 that’s zoom territory

You can’t really achieve a DOF of 1.2-1.4 lenses even 1.8 is questionable.
The other f2.8 zoom Pro glass I use with that combo is just so useless compared to your precious FF glass.
Your 2.8 glass give a Dof of f/5.6, If you can’t see the advantage of FF I’m sorry it’s just lost on you.

also where is that base ISO at 25, But let’s ignore that…
I guess their being sharp edge to edge is just a burden so why should I bother. Its obvious you've NEVER touched nor worked with one in the real world or you wouldn't have spouted off such absurd things about the OM-1.
Lol I used and owned that line so I’m more then familiar with it… the AF is bad in comparison, gotten better with the OM-1 sure, but it’s still trailing and just like Fujifilm they can thank Sony for that technology advancement at least it’s not utterly embarrassing anymore, because it was rubbish before.
There have been several Youtube's out there by seasoned photographers that have sold off their A1 for an OM-1 as it actually out tracked their flying birds. Go figure. Why don't you go online to Flickr.com sometime and see the results that are out there before you make a fool out of yourself.
Youtube and flicker 😂, what a fantastic argument you got there, A1 unfortunately by actual good birders been choosen as the best for BIF, but they surely must be wrong.
That said I enjoyed the week I spent with the A7R5. It's a great tool, as said just didn't bring anything to my table that would encourage me to part with the $$ for it. I've owned several Sony bodies along the way. I have nothing but good things to say about them, but they are NOT the only game in town that's for sure. We all need to use our tools for their intended purpose, and if they don't meet our needs, THAT is the time to move on. I have no need to move on I guess. LOL
Have I written Sony where the only one, Canon is also fine and Nikon Z9 too see no bias here.
--
Name the gear and I've probably owned it and used it.
 
Oh I know........my 25 f1.2 Pro lens is so slow I can barely use it. The Sigma 56 f1.4 DC is just so horribly slow it's a slouch.
That 1.2 give a equivalent DOF of approximately 2.4 and that f1.4 give a DOF of a 2.8 that’s zoom territory

You can’t really achieve a DOF of 1.2-1.4 lenses even 1.8 is questionable.
You're one of THOSE that loves to try to tear down a given lens due to it's so called lack of DOF control. you've obviously never used one once again. Yes indeed I can blur backgrounds to my hearts content. it's calle proper composition. Heard of that?
The other f2.8 zoom Pro glass I use with that combo is just so useless compared to your precious FF glass.
Your 2.8 glass give a Dof of f/5.6, If you can’t see the advantage of FF I’m sorry it’s just lost on you.
Most of my professional life I owned FF cameras so don't tell me about it. What's lost on YOU is your understanding of composition and choosing the right lens for the right job.
also where is that base ISO at 25, But let’s ignore that…
LOL NOT. Try ISO200
I guess their being sharp edge to edge is just a burden so why should I bother. Its obvious you've NEVER touched nor worked with one in the real world or you wouldn't have spouted off such absurd things about the OM-1.
Lol I used and owned that line so I’m more then familiar with it… the AF is bad in comparison, gotten better with the OM-1 sure, but it’s still trailing and just like Fujifilm they can thank Sony for that technology advancement at least it’s not utterly embarrassing anymore, because it was rubbish before.
Well sure I would agree that Sony "was" the leader in the focus tech. But Canon with it's DualPixel is every bit if not MORE competent then what Sony's using currently. And for all but human tracking the OM-1 will easily keep up with the best Sony is offering focus wise, if you don't think so try one as you are not talking about the same camera.
There have been several Youtube's out there by seasoned photographers that have sold off their A1 for an OM-1 as it actually out tracked their flying birds. Go figure. Why don't you go online to Flickr.com sometime and see the results that are out there before you make a fool out of yourself.
Youtube and flicker 😂, what a fantastic argument you got there, A1 unfortunately by actual good birders been choosen as the best for BIF, but they surely must be wrong.
You can pick and choose your authoritative users all you want. They aren't the only ones.
 
Oh I know........my 25 f1.2 Pro lens is so slow I can barely use it. The Sigma 56 f1.4 DC is just so horribly slow it's a slouch.
That 1.2 give a equivalent DOF of approximately 2.4 and that f1.4 give a DOF of a 2.8 that’s zoom territory

You can’t really achieve a DOF of 1.2-1.4 lenses even 1.8 is questionable.
You're one of THOSE that loves to try to tear down a given lens due to it's so called lack of DOF control. you've obviously never used one once again. Yes indeed I can blur backgrounds to my hearts content. it's calle proper composition. Heard of that?
The other f2.8 zoom Pro glass I use with that combo is just so useless compared to your precious FF glass.
Your 2.8 glass give a Dof of f/5.6, If you can’t see the advantage of FF I’m sorry it’s just lost on you.
Most of my professional life I owned FF cameras so don't tell me about it. What's lost on YOU is your understanding of composition and choosing the right lens for the right job.
also where is that base ISO at 25, But let’s ignore that…
LOL NOT. Try ISO200
I guess their being sharp edge to edge is just a burden so why should I bother. Its obvious you've NEVER touched nor worked with one in the real world or you wouldn't have spouted off such absurd things about the OM-1.
Lol I used and owned that line so I’m more then familiar with it… the AF is bad in comparison, gotten better with the OM-1 sure, but it’s still trailing and just like Fujifilm they can thank Sony for that technology advancement at least it’s not utterly embarrassing anymore, because it was rubbish before.
Well sure I would agree that Sony "was" the leader in the focus tech. But Canon with it's DualPixel is every bit if not MORE competent then what Sony's using currently. And for all but human tracking the OM-1 will easily keep up with the best Sony is offering focus wise, if you don't think so try one as you are not talking about the same camera.
There have been several Youtube's out there by seasoned photographers that have sold off their A1 for an OM-1 as it actually out tracked their flying birds. Go figure. Why don't you go online to Flickr.com sometime and see the results that are out there before you make a fool out of yourself.
Youtube and flicker 😂, what a fantastic argument you got there, A1 unfortunately by actual good birders been choosen as the best for BIF, but they surely must be wrong.
You can pick and choose your authoritative users all you want. They aren't the only ones.
it is much more difficult blurring backgrounds with M43, that is hard to deny

by the same token, it's pretty much impossible to buy an equivalent slow lens on FF.
 
I've come to the conclusion that for ME (probably nobody else on this forum or maybe a few) I won't be committing to a Sony body till they produce a:

* 50-60mp sensor with BSI and Stacked with a very very fast speed sensor to eliminate any rolling shutter.

* Have the updated and maybe even more so improved AI chips for best subject tracking in it.

* Keep that 9.7 Million Dot EVF but speed it up so it doesn't drop it's frame rate when shooting.

* Has the screen of at least the A7R5 design

* I don't care if it has a mechanical shutter, better yet something like the Z9 Nikon but have it be so there are NO drawbacks such as use with a flash sync speeds or issues with LED lighting.

I'm pretty sure there is a very high possibility if a A1MkII comes out it will be as described above. But if they bring out any hammers forget about it. Guess the next year or so will be quite revealing as to what is coming out. I don't see Sony resting on their laurels not updating the A1 at this point. Down a nearby road are some high performing Nikon and Canon's on the horizon. Time for Sony to step things up a notch.
Honestly, I'd skip the A7r5 and just get the A1, been around the block with just about everything and nothing is as compact/fast with exceptional iq like the A1 currently or for the foreseeable!
Once you start using these newer style bodies, the A1 body feels especially annoying. As good as the camera is, it does not sit right to pay for something you don’t love.

I would say the ignorance is bliss factor weighs heavily against the A1, not a lot of folks have used it, safer to spend less on camera these days, they’re all so darn powerful.
The issue you've got is with the top left dial? Other than that looks like any other gen4 body.

Maybe it's the lack of separation between photo and video setting?
The left stuff is borderline useless

switching AF->MF during video or Vice versa, impossible during a live shoot
actually very useful and so is the drive dial
have you used a non flagship camera? It’s ridiculously simple as is
the double decker dial on the right is far superior of an upgrade in practice, much easier because it is clear and concise. You know what mode of video you are on, even with the camera off
that dial is simply a mode dial which is much more static than the left dial you would need another control concentric to be of some use as a minimum drive mode and then you are left with something else for focus which will be another dial of some shape

The ergonomics of two dials are just fine
it’s not that simple

that mode switch gives you 3 custom modes for stills, 3 for video, 3 for S&Q

not only is it faster, it’s more intuitive

When dealing with shooting mode, video is tied to s firmware, photos is tied to hardware, which is the opposite of intuitive
I have no idea what you are talking about but I do not like the idea of a mode dial and autofocus dial without the drive

The drive is essential I do not want to navigate menus to tell the camera to do burst speed 2. Thats ok for a camera used for statics stuff not for a fast one
there is no menu digging involved.............
the repurposed exposure comp dial, a massive improvement. SLOG3 requires +1.7 ev, a dynamic EC is possible on the A1, if you’re willing to sacrifice that dial, not intuitive and the controls are more difficult afterwards.
not true slog3 exposes fine on the A1 where it is and if you wanted to overexpose you would do it in manual
+1.7 is EC in auto modes, that should be self explanatory, I often use other modes outside manual, like shutter and aperture priority.
Nope is a bad idea the camera exposes fine as is. The camera does have some challenges as it adjusts exposure too fast but the calculations are fine and +1.7 will clip a lot as soon as you have some light in the frame. Dialling overexposure point blank is a bad recipe on any camera system
turns out, you dont have much experience with SLOG3
i have experience with several log formats and I know how they work

when I get a nee camera i run my own tests in a controlled lightbox

i never ever overexpose unless for creative reasons once I have confirmed the camera meters correctly

slog3 has middle grey at a low 41% which in general terms is low but that is the way it is designed to be you don’t overexpose systematically otherwise you loose dynamic range

the lut maps it to 44% which is what I like in fact slog3 cine is great nothing to mess around with on this camera. Haven’t tried others ao can’t say if all implementations are the same

i have now used the camera past twilight and i see no need to make systemic corrections in fact I am near or at clipping most times as i shoot in high dynamic range situations
and yes I’ve used the a9 for a number of years and the a1 for a number of weeks. Quite frankly, I won’t go back to an EC dial body, that is the biggest annoyance. The the mode dial is less annoying, I can work with it.
There is nothing wrong with the A1 body controls actually the only ergonomics issue is the non articulated lcd and the position of the remote shutter control
i can guarantee these changes on the A7R5 regarding the body, will make it to the A1 mii in a few years, nothing wrong isn’t the same as not optimized
I do not like cameras with a single dial they are a bad idea and just good for static shooters

If there is one thing that is good about the A1 is the body controls if you don't need them probably you don't fit the use case for the camera but there is no point wanting the ergonomics to be destroyed for those who actually like the settings
since your against the EC dial, you're also against having an EXTRA LOCKABLE WHEEL? That's just silly

there is no change in the ergonomics, the EC wheel is repurposed, which you CANNOT do on the A1
That ec wheel is no use to me when I want to overexpose I shoot manual but doesn’t bother me either

the body is great as is except the lcd
 
This thread seems like a huge waste of everyone's time then. If you are happy with your OM-1 why bother looking at other systems at all? Seems like you are just coming up with some roundabout way to bash other systems under the false pretense of "looking to upgrade".
INdeed. My comments on this thread end today. Enjoy what you are using and what you do.
That's right. You've been outed and now you admit it. You should be ashamed.

How about you ask the mods to delete your thread, since you agree that "you are just coming up with a way to bash other systems under false pretences".

NOT GOOD.
 
Oh I know........my 25 f1.2 Pro lens is so slow I can barely use it. The Sigma 56 f1.4 DC is just so horribly slow it's a slouch.
That 1.2 give a equivalent DOF of approximately 2.4 and that f1.4 give a DOF of a 2.8 that’s zoom territory

You can’t really achieve a DOF of 1.2-1.4 lenses even 1.8 is questionable.
You're one of THOSE that loves to try to tear down a given lens due to it's so called lack of DOF control. you've obviously never used one once again. Yes indeed I can blur backgrounds to my hearts content. it's calle proper composition. Heard of that?
I owned M4/3 for christ sake it gives less DOF control in the shallow direction it’s just how it is, you need to work more with those constraints caused by not fast enough glass on a smaller sensor, it’s far easier far more options and scenarios with FF that’s just how it is.

You can try speaking away from reality as much as you like, but still facts remain, larger sensor are better and superior in that aspect, a MF also offer better control then a FF in that aspect if it offered fast enough glass that is.
The other f2.8 zoom Pro glass I use with that combo is just so useless compared to your precious FF glass.
Your 2.8 glass give a Dof of f/5.6, If you can’t see the advantage of FF I’m sorry it’s just lost on you.
Most of my professional life I owned FF cameras so don't tell me about it. What's lost on YOU is your understanding of composition and choosing the right lens for the right job.
You’ll be wrong there, I just don’t like constraints caused by smaller sensors. I’m full aware of composition and using the right lenses but FF offer a far superior selection and options that’s just how it is. Also I can achieve it with a f/4 lens (f/2 on m4/3) on FF so I obviously know how to compose.
also where is that base ISO at 25, But let’s ignore that…
LOL NOT. Try ISO200
A yes that corresponds to roughly what ISO800 on FF, why every image is much more noisy

Also offer better DR, Noise and tonality again just a fact.

You can say the same with MF vs FF
I guess their being sharp edge to edge is just a burden so why should I bother. Its obvious you've NEVER touched nor worked with one in the real world or you wouldn't have spouted off such absurd things about the OM-1.
Lol I used and owned that line so I’m more then familiar with it… the AF is bad in comparison, gotten better with the OM-1 sure, but it’s still trailing and just like Fujifilm they can thank Sony for that technology advancement at least it’s not utterly embarrassing anymore, because it was rubbish before.
Well sure I would agree that Sony "was" the leader in the focus tech. But Canon with it's DualPixel is every bit if not MORE competent then what Sony's using currently. And for all but human tracking the OM-1 will easily keep up with the best Sony is offering focus wise, if you don't think so try one as you are not talking about the same camera.
I never said Sony was the best now did I, there about equal to canon, what is best among those two is incredible subject and situation dependent with Sony’s AI chip the few scenarios where Canon did have an edge is now not there anymore…

Human tracking just happens to be a deal breaker for me… it needs to be good at that. As I wrote it gotten better with the stacked now it’s at least useable it was really sup par before, one of the main reasons I left Olympus that and low light constraints.
There have been several Youtube's out there by seasoned photographers that have sold off their A1 for an OM-1 as it actually out tracked their flying birds. Go figure. Why don't you go online to Flickr.com sometime and see the results that are out there before you make a fool out of yourself.
Youtube and flicker 😂, what a fantastic argument you got there, A1 unfortunately by actual good birders been choosen as the best for BIF, but they surely must be wrong.
You can pick and choose your authoritative users all you want. They aren't the only ones.

--
Name the gear and I've probably owned it and used it.
 
Last edited:
This thread seems like a huge waste of everyone's time then. If you are happy with your OM-1 why bother looking at other systems at all? Seems like you are just coming up with some roundabout way to bash other systems under the false pretense of "looking to upgrade".
INdeed. My comments on this thread end today. Enjoy what you are using and what you do.
That's right. You've been outed and now you admit it. You should be ashamed.

How about you ask the mods to delete your thread, since you agree that "you are just coming up with a way to bash other systems under false pretences".

NOT GOOD.
So much for your level of comprehension. You missed the original discussion's intent altogether.
 
I've come to the conclusion that for ME (probably nobody else on this forum or maybe a few) I won't be committing to a Sony body till they produce a:

* 50-60mp sensor with BSI and Stacked with a very very fast speed sensor to eliminate any rolling shutter.

* Have the updated and maybe even more so improved AI chips for best subject tracking in it.

* Keep that 9.7 Million Dot EVF but speed it up so it doesn't drop it's frame rate when shooting.

* Has the screen of at least the A7R5 design

* I don't care if it has a mechanical shutter, better yet something like the Z9 Nikon but have it be so there are NO drawbacks such as use with a flash sync speeds or issues with LED lighting.

I'm pretty sure there is a very high possibility if a A1MkII comes out it will be as described above. But if they bring out any hammers forget about it. Guess the next year or so will be quite revealing as to what is coming out. I don't see Sony resting on their laurels not updating the A1 at this point. Down a nearby road are some high performing Nikon and Canon's on the horizon. Time for Sony to step things up a notch.
Honestly, I'd skip the A7r5 and just get the A1, been around the block with just about everything and nothing is as compact/fast with exceptional iq like the A1 currently or for the foreseeable!
Once you start using these newer style bodies, the A1 body feels especially annoying. As good as the camera is, it does not sit right to pay for something you don’t love.

I would say the ignorance is bliss factor weighs heavily against the A1, not a lot of folks have used it, safer to spend less on camera these days, they’re all so darn powerful.
The issue you've got is with the top left dial? Other than that looks like any other gen4 body.

Maybe it's the lack of separation between photo and video setting?
The left stuff is borderline useless

switching AF->MF during video or Vice versa, impossible during a live shoot
actually very useful and so is the drive dial
have you used a non flagship camera? It’s ridiculously simple as is
the double decker dial on the right is far superior of an upgrade in practice, much easier because it is clear and concise. You know what mode of video you are on, even with the camera off
that dial is simply a mode dial which is much more static than the left dial you would need another control concentric to be of some use as a minimum drive mode and then you are left with something else for focus which will be another dial of some shape

The ergonomics of two dials are just fine
it’s not that simple

that mode switch gives you 3 custom modes for stills, 3 for video, 3 for S&Q

not only is it faster, it’s more intuitive

When dealing with shooting mode, video is tied to s firmware, photos is tied to hardware, which is the opposite of intuitive
I have no idea what you are talking about but I do not like the idea of a mode dial and autofocus dial without the drive

The drive is essential I do not want to navigate menus to tell the camera to do burst speed 2. Thats ok for a camera used for statics stuff not for a fast one
there is no menu digging involved.............
the repurposed exposure comp dial, a massive improvement. SLOG3 requires +1.7 ev, a dynamic EC is possible on the A1, if you’re willing to sacrifice that dial, not intuitive and the controls are more difficult afterwards.
not true slog3 exposes fine on the A1 where it is and if you wanted to overexpose you would do it in manual
+1.7 is EC in auto modes, that should be self explanatory, I often use other modes outside manual, like shutter and aperture priority.
Nope is a bad idea the camera exposes fine as is. The camera does have some challenges as it adjusts exposure too fast but the calculations are fine and +1.7 will clip a lot as soon as you have some light in the frame. Dialling overexposure point blank is a bad recipe on any camera system
turns out, you dont have much experience with SLOG3
i have experience with several log formats and I know how they work

when I get a nee camera i run my own tests in a controlled lightbox

i never ever overexpose unless for creative reasons once I have confirmed the camera meters correctly

slog3 has middle grey at a low 41% which in general terms is low but that is the way it is designed to be you don’t overexpose systematically otherwise you loose dynamic range

the lut maps it to 44% which is what I like in fact slog3 cine is great nothing to mess around with on this camera. Haven’t tried others ao can’t say if all implementations are the same

i have now used the camera past twilight and i see no need to make systemic corrections in fact I am near or at clipping most times as i shoot in high dynamic range situations
and yes I’ve used the a9 for a number of years and the a1 for a number of weeks. Quite frankly, I won’t go back to an EC dial body, that is the biggest annoyance. The the mode dial is less annoying, I can work with it.
There is nothing wrong with the A1 body controls actually the only ergonomics issue is the non articulated lcd and the position of the remote shutter control
i can guarantee these changes on the A7R5 regarding the body, will make it to the A1 mii in a few years, nothing wrong isn’t the same as not optimized
I do not like cameras with a single dial they are a bad idea and just good for static shooters

If there is one thing that is good about the A1 is the body controls if you don't need them probably you don't fit the use case for the camera but there is no point wanting the ergonomics to be destroyed for those who actually like the settings
since your against the EC dial, you're also against having an EXTRA LOCKABLE WHEEL? That's just silly

there is no change in the ergonomics, the EC wheel is repurposed, which you CANNOT do on the A1
That ec wheel is no use to me when I want to overexpose I shoot manual but doesn’t bother me either

the body is great as is except the lcd
again, I dont believe that you've used the newer bodies or slog3

so the old saying goes ____________ is bliss.

the new bodies are better

slog3 is typically exposed at +1.7 for high dynamic scenes, even higher for low dynamic scenes
 
This thread seems like a huge waste of everyone's time then. If you are happy with your OM-1 why bother looking at other systems at all? Seems like you are just coming up with some roundabout way to bash other systems under the false pretense of "looking to upgrade".
INdeed. My comments on this thread end today. Enjoy what you are using and what you do.
That's right. You've been outed and now you admit it. You should be ashamed.

How about you ask the mods to delete your thread, since you agree that "you are just coming up with a way to bash other systems under false pretences".

NOT GOOD.
So much for your level of comprehension. You missed the original discussion's intent altogether.
Enlighten us. What were you hoping to accomplish with this thread, and why did you fail?

--
Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/
 
Last edited:
I've come to the conclusion that for ME (probably nobody else on this forum or maybe a few) I won't be committing to a Sony body till they produce a:

* 50-60mp sensor with BSI and Stacked with a very very fast speed sensor to eliminate any rolling shutter.

* Have the updated and maybe even more so improved AI chips for best subject tracking in it.

* Keep that 9.7 Million Dot EVF but speed it up so it doesn't drop it's frame rate when shooting.

* Has the screen of at least the A7R5 design

* I don't care if it has a mechanical shutter, better yet something like the Z9 Nikon but have it be so there are NO drawbacks such as use with a flash sync speeds or issues with LED lighting.

I'm pretty sure there is a very high possibility if a A1MkII comes out it will be as described above. But if they bring out any hammers forget about it. Guess the next year or so will be quite revealing as to what is coming out. I don't see Sony resting on their laurels not updating the A1 at this point. Down a nearby road are some high performing Nikon and Canon's on the horizon. Time for Sony to step things up a notch.
Honestly, I'd skip the A7r5 and just get the A1, been around the block with just about everything and nothing is as compact/fast with exceptional iq like the A1 currently or for the foreseeable!
Once you start using these newer style bodies, the A1 body feels especially annoying. As good as the camera is, it does not sit right to pay for something you don’t love.

I would say the ignorance is bliss factor weighs heavily against the A1, not a lot of folks have used it, safer to spend less on camera these days, they’re all so darn powerful.
The issue you've got is with the top left dial? Other than that looks like any other gen4 body.

Maybe it's the lack of separation between photo and video setting?
The left stuff is borderline useless

switching AF->MF during video or Vice versa, impossible during a live shoot
actually very useful and so is the drive dial
have you used a non flagship camera? It’s ridiculously simple as is
the double decker dial on the right is far superior of an upgrade in practice, much easier because it is clear and concise. You know what mode of video you are on, even with the camera off
that dial is simply a mode dial which is much more static than the left dial you would need another control concentric to be of some use as a minimum drive mode and then you are left with something else for focus which will be another dial of some shape

The ergonomics of two dials are just fine
it’s not that simple

that mode switch gives you 3 custom modes for stills, 3 for video, 3 for S&Q

not only is it faster, it’s more intuitive

When dealing with shooting mode, video is tied to s firmware, photos is tied to hardware, which is the opposite of intuitive
I have no idea what you are talking about but I do not like the idea of a mode dial and autofocus dial without the drive

The drive is essential I do not want to navigate menus to tell the camera to do burst speed 2. Thats ok for a camera used for statics stuff not for a fast one
there is no menu digging involved.............
the repurposed exposure comp dial, a massive improvement. SLOG3 requires +1.7 ev, a dynamic EC is possible on the A1, if you’re willing to sacrifice that dial, not intuitive and the controls are more difficult afterwards.
not true slog3 exposes fine on the A1 where it is and if you wanted to overexpose you would do it in manual
+1.7 is EC in auto modes, that should be self explanatory, I often use other modes outside manual, like shutter and aperture priority.
Nope is a bad idea the camera exposes fine as is. The camera does have some challenges as it adjusts exposure too fast but the calculations are fine and +1.7 will clip a lot as soon as you have some light in the frame. Dialling overexposure point blank is a bad recipe on any camera system
turns out, you dont have much experience with SLOG3
i have experience with several log formats and I know how they work

when I get a nee camera i run my own tests in a controlled lightbox

i never ever overexpose unless for creative reasons once I have confirmed the camera meters correctly

slog3 has middle grey at a low 41% which in general terms is low but that is the way it is designed to be you don’t overexpose systematically otherwise you loose dynamic range

the lut maps it to 44% which is what I like in fact slog3 cine is great nothing to mess around with on this camera. Haven’t tried others ao can’t say if all implementations are the same

i have now used the camera past twilight and i see no need to make systemic corrections in fact I am near or at clipping most times as i shoot in high dynamic range situations
and yes I’ve used the a9 for a number of years and the a1 for a number of weeks. Quite frankly, I won’t go back to an EC dial body, that is the biggest annoyance. The the mode dial is less annoying, I can work with it.
There is nothing wrong with the A1 body controls actually the only ergonomics issue is the non articulated lcd and the position of the remote shutter control
i can guarantee these changes on the A7R5 regarding the body, will make it to the A1 mii in a few years, nothing wrong isn’t the same as not optimized
I do not like cameras with a single dial they are a bad idea and just good for static shooters

If there is one thing that is good about the A1 is the body controls if you don't need them probably you don't fit the use case for the camera but there is no point wanting the ergonomics to be destroyed for those who actually like the settings
since your against the EC dial, you're also against having an EXTRA LOCKABLE WHEEL? That's just silly

there is no change in the ergonomics, the EC wheel is repurposed, which you CANNOT do on the A1
That ec wheel is no use to me when I want to overexpose I shoot manual but doesn’t bother me either

the body is great as is except the lcd
again, I dont believe that you've used the newer bodies or slog3

so the old saying goes ____________ is bliss.

the new bodies are better

slog3 is typically exposed at +1.7 for high dynamic scenes, even higher for low dynamic scenes
It isn’t

you need to stop watching gerald undone and learn how log and a camera works

There is good documentation on Sony pro site read it
 
So much for your level of comprehension. You missed the original discussion's intent altogether.
Enlighten us. What were you hoping to accomplish with this thread, and why did you fail?
I must admit it was probably foolish of me to provide an example of how, in some cases, a higher megapixel camera won't necessarily provide an image, in the end, that is somehow "superior". The crowd on Dpreview in general isn't able to deal with some levels of this reality. It wasn't the same on a few other forums I provided this information on. Too often (mostly here on Dpreview) it's prevalent where fans of a given brand take it like religion if someone ever exposes a weakness or lack of superiority. I'll leave it there.
 
So much for your level of comprehension. You missed the original discussion's intent altogether.
Enlighten us. What were you hoping to accomplish with this thread, and why did you fail?
I must admit it was probably foolish of me to provide an example of how, in some cases, a higher megapixel camera won't necessarily provide an image, in the end, that is somehow "superior". The crowd on Dpreview in general isn't able to deal with some levels of this reality. It wasn't the same on a few other forums I provided this information on. Too often (mostly here on Dpreview) it's prevalent where fans of a given brand take it like religion if someone ever exposes a weakness or lack of superiority. I'll leave it there.
 
Please stop escalating
 
I've come to the conclusion that for ME (probably nobody else on this forum or maybe a few) I won't be committing to a Sony body till they produce a:

* 50-60mp sensor with BSI and Stacked with a very very fast speed sensor to eliminate any rolling shutter.

* Have the updated and maybe even more so improved AI chips for best subject tracking in it.

* Keep that 9.7 Million Dot EVF but speed it up so it doesn't drop it's frame rate when shooting.

* Has the screen of at least the A7R5 design

* I don't care if it has a mechanical shutter, better yet something like the Z9 Nikon but have it be so there are NO drawbacks such as use with a flash sync speeds or issues with LED lighting.

I'm pretty sure there is a very high possibility if a A1MkII comes out it will be as described above. But if they bring out any hammers forget about it. Guess the next year or so will be quite revealing as to what is coming out. I don't see Sony resting on their laurels not updating the A1 at this point. Down a nearby road are some high performing Nikon and Canon's on the horizon. Time for Sony to step things up a notch.
Honestly, I'd skip the A7r5 and just get the A1, been around the block with just about everything and nothing is as compact/fast with exceptional iq like the A1 currently or for the foreseeable!
Once you start using these newer style bodies, the A1 body feels especially annoying. As good as the camera is, it does not sit right to pay for something you don’t love.

I would say the ignorance is bliss factor weighs heavily against the A1, not a lot of folks have used it, safer to spend less on camera these days, they’re all so darn powerful.
The issue you've got is with the top left dial? Other than that looks like any other gen4 body.

Maybe it's the lack of separation between photo and video setting?
The left stuff is borderline useless

switching AF->MF during video or Vice versa, impossible during a live shoot
actually very useful and so is the drive dial
have you used a non flagship camera? It’s ridiculously simple as is
the double decker dial on the right is far superior of an upgrade in practice, much easier because it is clear and concise. You know what mode of video you are on, even with the camera off
that dial is simply a mode dial which is much more static than the left dial you would need another control concentric to be of some use as a minimum drive mode and then you are left with something else for focus which will be another dial of some shape

The ergonomics of two dials are just fine
it’s not that simple

that mode switch gives you 3 custom modes for stills, 3 for video, 3 for S&Q

not only is it faster, it’s more intuitive

When dealing with shooting mode, video is tied to s firmware, photos is tied to hardware, which is the opposite of intuitive
I have no idea what you are talking about but I do not like the idea of a mode dial and autofocus dial without the drive

The drive is essential I do not want to navigate menus to tell the camera to do burst speed 2. Thats ok for a camera used for statics stuff not for a fast one
there is no menu digging involved.............
the repurposed exposure comp dial, a massive improvement. SLOG3 requires +1.7 ev, a dynamic EC is possible on the A1, if you’re willing to sacrifice that dial, not intuitive and the controls are more difficult afterwards.
not true slog3 exposes fine on the A1 where it is and if you wanted to overexpose you would do it in manual
+1.7 is EC in auto modes, that should be self explanatory, I often use other modes outside manual, like shutter and aperture priority.
Nope is a bad idea the camera exposes fine as is. The camera does have some challenges as it adjusts exposure too fast but the calculations are fine and +1.7 will clip a lot as soon as you have some light in the frame. Dialling overexposure point blank is a bad recipe on any camera system
turns out, you dont have much experience with SLOG3
i have experience with several log formats and I know how they work

when I get a nee camera i run my own tests in a controlled lightbox

i never ever overexpose unless for creative reasons once I have confirmed the camera meters correctly

slog3 has middle grey at a low 41% which in general terms is low but that is the way it is designed to be you don’t overexpose systematically otherwise you loose dynamic range

the lut maps it to 44% which is what I like in fact slog3 cine is great nothing to mess around with on this camera. Haven’t tried others ao can’t say if all implementations are the same

i have now used the camera past twilight and i see no need to make systemic corrections in fact I am near or at clipping most times as i shoot in high dynamic range situations
and yes I’ve used the a9 for a number of years and the a1 for a number of weeks. Quite frankly, I won’t go back to an EC dial body, that is the biggest annoyance. The the mode dial is less annoying, I can work with it.
There is nothing wrong with the A1 body controls actually the only ergonomics issue is the non articulated lcd and the position of the remote shutter control
i can guarantee these changes on the A7R5 regarding the body, will make it to the A1 mii in a few years, nothing wrong isn’t the same as not optimized
I do not like cameras with a single dial they are a bad idea and just good for static shooters

If there is one thing that is good about the A1 is the body controls if you don't need them probably you don't fit the use case for the camera but there is no point wanting the ergonomics to be destroyed for those who actually like the settings
since your against the EC dial, you're also against having an EXTRA LOCKABLE WHEEL? That's just silly

there is no change in the ergonomics, the EC wheel is repurposed, which you CANNOT do on the A1
That ec wheel is no use to me when I want to overexpose I shoot manual but doesn’t bother me either

the body is great as is except the lcd
again, I dont believe that you've used the newer bodies or slog3

so the old saying goes ____________ is bliss.

the new bodies are better

slog3 is typically exposed at +1.7 for high dynamic scenes, even higher for low dynamic scenes
It isn’t

you need to stop watching gerald undone and learn how log and a camera works

There is good documentation on Sony pro site read it
you work fast, you're not going to be sitting around with a grey card to expose, you let the camera do it.



here's a +1.7 in a high dynamic scene



dcdb92b5fe9f4b119cacf117d1d3c241.jpg.png

It doesn't clip



I've logged hundreds of hours with SLOG3, it's known for the high dynamic range

+1.7 is very safe, +2 is fine most the time if ok with occasional clipping
 
I've come to the conclusion that for ME (probably nobody else on this forum or maybe a few) I won't be committing to a Sony body till they produce a:

* 50-60mp sensor with BSI and Stacked with a very very fast speed sensor to eliminate any rolling shutter.

* Have the updated and maybe even more so improved AI chips for best subject tracking in it.

* Keep that 9.7 Million Dot EVF but speed it up so it doesn't drop it's frame rate when shooting.

* Has the screen of at least the A7R5 design

* I don't care if it has a mechanical shutter, better yet something like the Z9 Nikon but have it be so there are NO drawbacks such as use with a flash sync speeds or issues with LED lighting.

I'm pretty sure there is a very high possibility if a A1MkII comes out it will be as described above. But if they bring out any hammers forget about it. Guess the next year or so will be quite revealing as to what is coming out. I don't see Sony resting on their laurels not updating the A1 at this point. Down a nearby road are some high performing Nikon and Canon's on the horizon. Time for Sony to step things up a notch.
Honestly, I'd skip the A7r5 and just get the A1, been around the block with just about everything and nothing is as compact/fast with exceptional iq like the A1 currently or for the foreseeable!
Once you start using these newer style bodies, the A1 body feels especially annoying. As good as the camera is, it does not sit right to pay for something you don’t love.

I would say the ignorance is bliss factor weighs heavily against the A1, not a lot of folks have used it, safer to spend less on camera these days, they’re all so darn powerful.
The issue you've got is with the top left dial? Other than that looks like any other gen4 body.

Maybe it's the lack of separation between photo and video setting?
The left stuff is borderline useless

switching AF->MF during video or Vice versa, impossible during a live shoot
actually very useful and so is the drive dial
have you used a non flagship camera? It’s ridiculously simple as is
the double decker dial on the right is far superior of an upgrade in practice, much easier because it is clear and concise. You know what mode of video you are on, even with the camera off
that dial is simply a mode dial which is much more static than the left dial you would need another control concentric to be of some use as a minimum drive mode and then you are left with something else for focus which will be another dial of some shape

The ergonomics of two dials are just fine
it’s not that simple

that mode switch gives you 3 custom modes for stills, 3 for video, 3 for S&Q

not only is it faster, it’s more intuitive

When dealing with shooting mode, video is tied to s firmware, photos is tied to hardware, which is the opposite of intuitive
I have no idea what you are talking about but I do not like the idea of a mode dial and autofocus dial without the drive

The drive is essential I do not want to navigate menus to tell the camera to do burst speed 2. Thats ok for a camera used for statics stuff not for a fast one
there is no menu digging involved.............
the repurposed exposure comp dial, a massive improvement. SLOG3 requires +1.7 ev, a dynamic EC is possible on the A1, if you’re willing to sacrifice that dial, not intuitive and the controls are more difficult afterwards.
not true slog3 exposes fine on the A1 where it is and if you wanted to overexpose you would do it in manual
+1.7 is EC in auto modes, that should be self explanatory, I often use other modes outside manual, like shutter and aperture priority.
Nope is a bad idea the camera exposes fine as is. The camera does have some challenges as it adjusts exposure too fast but the calculations are fine and +1.7 will clip a lot as soon as you have some light in the frame. Dialling overexposure point blank is a bad recipe on any camera system
turns out, you dont have much experience with SLOG3
i have experience with several log formats and I know how they work

when I get a nee camera i run my own tests in a controlled lightbox

i never ever overexpose unless for creative reasons once I have confirmed the camera meters correctly

slog3 has middle grey at a low 41% which in general terms is low but that is the way it is designed to be you don’t overexpose systematically otherwise you loose dynamic range

the lut maps it to 44% which is what I like in fact slog3 cine is great nothing to mess around with on this camera. Haven’t tried others ao can’t say if all implementations are the same

i have now used the camera past twilight and i see no need to make systemic corrections in fact I am near or at clipping most times as i shoot in high dynamic range situations
and yes I’ve used the a9 for a number of years and the a1 for a number of weeks. Quite frankly, I won’t go back to an EC dial body, that is the biggest annoyance. The the mode dial is less annoying, I can work with it.
There is nothing wrong with the A1 body controls actually the only ergonomics issue is the non articulated lcd and the position of the remote shutter control
i can guarantee these changes on the A7R5 regarding the body, will make it to the A1 mii in a few years, nothing wrong isn’t the same as not optimized
I do not like cameras with a single dial they are a bad idea and just good for static shooters

If there is one thing that is good about the A1 is the body controls if you don't need them probably you don't fit the use case for the camera but there is no point wanting the ergonomics to be destroyed for those who actually like the settings
since your against the EC dial, you're also against having an EXTRA LOCKABLE WHEEL? That's just silly

there is no change in the ergonomics, the EC wheel is repurposed, which you CANNOT do on the A1
That ec wheel is no use to me when I want to overexpose I shoot manual but doesn’t bother me either

the body is great as is except the lcd
again, I dont believe that you've used the newer bodies or slog3

so the old saying goes ____________ is bliss.

the new bodies are better

slog3 is typically exposed at +1.7 for high dynamic scenes, even higher for low dynamic scenes
It isn’t

you need to stop watching gerald undone and learn how log and a camera works

There is good documentation on Sony pro site read it
you work fast, you're not going to be sitting around with a grey card to expose, you let the camera do it.

here's a +1.7 in a high dynamic scene

dcdb92b5fe9f4b119cacf117d1d3c241.jpg.png

It doesn't clip

I've logged hundreds of hours with SLOG3, it's known for the high dynamic range

+1.7 is very safe, +2 is fine most the time if ok with occasional clipping
The scene you just posted has light coming from behind and as such it is simply bright while in fact is a flat low dynamic range scene. Based on this example you cannot draw any conclusions

if you look at the stops table for slog3 you can refer to lutcalc you will see that the gamma has 6 stops over middle grey and 9 below. The clipping point is 94% IRE it doesn’t reach 100% but it clips anyway

if you overexpose two stops you reduce the highlight headroom to 4 stops. This will work fine as long as your scene didn’t have more than 4 stops over middle grey to start with otherwise it will clip
in addition overexposed footage looks washed out because the highlights are heavily compressed and contain limited color information so when you bring the exposure back you end up with the classic washed out blues in the sky as seen in many video and in your example

the situation is different if the camera meters middle grey you are not clipping but the interesting part of your scene is dark, in which case you will spot meter on that part of the frame which would result in an overexposure of the entire frame but correct exposure of your subject and if the rest desaturates who cares

understanding how things work is important you can’t just follow a recipe without knowing the implications

--
instagram http://instagram.com/interceptor121
My flickr sets http://www.flickr.com/photos/interceptor121/
Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/interceptor121
Underwater Photo and Video Blog http://interceptor121.com
Deer Photography workshops https://interceptor121.com/2021/09/26/2021-22-deer-photography-workshops-in-woburn/
If you want to get in touch don't send me a PM rather contact me directly at my website/social media
 
I've come to the conclusion that for ME (probably nobody else on this forum or maybe a few) I won't be committing to a Sony body till they produce a:

* 50-60mp sensor with BSI and Stacked with a very very fast speed sensor to eliminate any rolling shutter.

* Have the updated and maybe even more so improved AI chips for best subject tracking in it.

* Keep that 9.7 Million Dot EVF but speed it up so it doesn't drop it's frame rate when shooting.

* Has the screen of at least the A7R5 design

* I don't care if it has a mechanical shutter, better yet something like the Z9 Nikon but have it be so there are NO drawbacks such as use with a flash sync speeds or issues with LED lighting.

I'm pretty sure there is a very high possibility if a A1MkII comes out it will be as described above. But if they bring out any hammers forget about it. Guess the next year or so will be quite revealing as to what is coming out. I don't see Sony resting on their laurels not updating the A1 at this point. Down a nearby road are some high performing Nikon and Canon's on the horizon. Time for Sony to step things up a notch.
Honestly, I'd skip the A7r5 and just get the A1, been around the block with just about everything and nothing is as compact/fast with exceptional iq like the A1 currently or for the foreseeable!
Once you start using these newer style bodies, the A1 body feels especially annoying. As good as the camera is, it does not sit right to pay for something you don’t love.

I would say the ignorance is bliss factor weighs heavily against the A1, not a lot of folks have used it, safer to spend less on camera these days, they’re all so darn powerful.
The issue you've got is with the top left dial? Other than that looks like any other gen4 body.

Maybe it's the lack of separation between photo and video setting?
The left stuff is borderline useless

switching AF->MF during video or Vice versa, impossible during a live shoot
actually very useful and so is the drive dial
have you used a non flagship camera? It’s ridiculously simple as is
the double decker dial on the right is far superior of an upgrade in practice, much easier because it is clear and concise. You know what mode of video you are on, even with the camera off
that dial is simply a mode dial which is much more static than the left dial you would need another control concentric to be of some use as a minimum drive mode and then you are left with something else for focus which will be another dial of some shape

The ergonomics of two dials are just fine
it’s not that simple

that mode switch gives you 3 custom modes for stills, 3 for video, 3 for S&Q

not only is it faster, it’s more intuitive

When dealing with shooting mode, video is tied to s firmware, photos is tied to hardware, which is the opposite of intuitive
I have no idea what you are talking about but I do not like the idea of a mode dial and autofocus dial without the drive

The drive is essential I do not want to navigate menus to tell the camera to do burst speed 2. Thats ok for a camera used for statics stuff not for a fast one
there is no menu digging involved.............
the repurposed exposure comp dial, a massive improvement. SLOG3 requires +1.7 ev, a dynamic EC is possible on the A1, if you’re willing to sacrifice that dial, not intuitive and the controls are more difficult afterwards.
not true slog3 exposes fine on the A1 where it is and if you wanted to overexpose you would do it in manual
+1.7 is EC in auto modes, that should be self explanatory, I often use other modes outside manual, like shutter and aperture priority.
Nope is a bad idea the camera exposes fine as is. The camera does have some challenges as it adjusts exposure too fast but the calculations are fine and +1.7 will clip a lot as soon as you have some light in the frame. Dialling overexposure point blank is a bad recipe on any camera system
turns out, you dont have much experience with SLOG3
i have experience with several log formats and I know how they work

when I get a nee camera i run my own tests in a controlled lightbox

i never ever overexpose unless for creative reasons once I have confirmed the camera meters correctly

slog3 has middle grey at a low 41% which in general terms is low but that is the way it is designed to be you don’t overexpose systematically otherwise you loose dynamic range

the lut maps it to 44% which is what I like in fact slog3 cine is great nothing to mess around with on this camera. Haven’t tried others ao can’t say if all implementations are the same

i have now used the camera past twilight and i see no need to make systemic corrections in fact I am near or at clipping most times as i shoot in high dynamic range situations
and yes I’ve used the a9 for a number of years and the a1 for a number of weeks. Quite frankly, I won’t go back to an EC dial body, that is the biggest annoyance. The the mode dial is less annoying, I can work with it.
There is nothing wrong with the A1 body controls actually the only ergonomics issue is the non articulated lcd and the position of the remote shutter control
i can guarantee these changes on the A7R5 regarding the body, will make it to the A1 mii in a few years, nothing wrong isn’t the same as not optimized
I do not like cameras with a single dial they are a bad idea and just good for static shooters

If there is one thing that is good about the A1 is the body controls if you don't need them probably you don't fit the use case for the camera but there is no point wanting the ergonomics to be destroyed for those who actually like the settings
since your against the EC dial, you're also against having an EXTRA LOCKABLE WHEEL? That's just silly

there is no change in the ergonomics, the EC wheel is repurposed, which you CANNOT do on the A1
That ec wheel is no use to me when I want to overexpose I shoot manual but doesn’t bother me either

the body is great as is except the lcd
again, I dont believe that you've used the newer bodies or slog3

so the old saying goes ____________ is bliss.

the new bodies are better

slog3 is typically exposed at +1.7 for high dynamic scenes, even higher for low dynamic scenes
It isn’t

you need to stop watching gerald undone and learn how log and a camera works

There is good documentation on Sony pro site read it
you work fast, you're not going to be sitting around with a grey card to expose, you let the camera do it.

here's a +1.7 in a high dynamic scene

dcdb92b5fe9f4b119cacf117d1d3c241.jpg.png

It doesn't clip

I've logged hundreds of hours with SLOG3, it's known for the high dynamic range

+1.7 is very safe, +2 is fine most the time if ok with occasional clipping
The scene you just posted has light coming from behind and as such it is simply bright while in fact is a flat low dynamic range scene. Based on this example you cannot draw any conclusions

if you look at the stops table for slog3 you can refer to lutcalc you will see that the gamma has 6 stops over middle grey and 9 below. The clipping point is 94% IRE it doesn’t reach 100% but it clips anyway

if you overexpose two stops you reduce the highlight headroom to 4 stops. This will work fine as long as your scene didn’t have more than 4 stops over middle grey to start with otherwise it will clip
in addition overexposed footage looks washed out because the highlights are heavily compressed and contain limited color information so when you bring the exposure back you end up with the classic washed out blues in the sky as seen in many video and in your example

the situation is different if the camera meters middle grey you are not clipping but the interesting part of your scene is dark, in which case you will spot meter on that part of the frame which would result in an overexposure of the entire frame but correct exposure of your subject and if the rest desaturates who cares

understanding how things work is important you can’t just follow a recipe without knowing the implications
it's not simply bright, there's a big prominant black jacket that is exposed well, and a WHITE helmet, that can clip easily, yet it's not. I will tell you that any mode outside of LOG will clip the helmet, and it probably wouldnt bother me much, the whole point is that +1.7 is safe, a tried and true number with SLOG3. That is one of the main selling points of using sony cameras, for their vast dynamic range and ease of use

along the theme of ease of use is another reason I use SLOG3 95% of the time, bright scenes, dark scenes, it doesnt matter. I dont carry a grey card and I know from experience, where the cameras tend to clip.

as for the SLOG gamma curve, it's not good on the shadows, it shifts for contrast in the dark areas, hence you dont expose it for middle grey conventionally (prior to gamma correction).

as for the scene looking "washed out", it's not, there's no application of contrast curves, it's simply a conversion lut for color, there is plenty of information in the file.

you can expose lower and pull the shadows, but if you knew that there's a curve at the bottom of SLOG, you would think twice about doing that.



as an aside..... the panasonic s5 iix...... money will part my wallet...... wowzers
 
I've come to the conclusion that for ME (probably nobody else on this forum or maybe a few) I won't be committing to a Sony body till they produce a:

* 50-60mp sensor with BSI and Stacked with a very very fast speed sensor to eliminate any rolling shutter.

* Have the updated and maybe even more so improved AI chips for best subject tracking in it.

* Keep that 9.7 Million Dot EVF but speed it up so it doesn't drop it's frame rate when shooting.

* Has the screen of at least the A7R5 design

* I don't care if it has a mechanical shutter, better yet something like the Z9 Nikon but have it be so there are NO drawbacks such as use with a flash sync speeds or issues with LED lighting.

I'm pretty sure there is a very high possibility if a A1MkII comes out it will be as described above. But if they bring out any hammers forget about it. Guess the next year or so will be quite revealing as to what is coming out. I don't see Sony resting on their laurels not updating the A1 at this point. Down a nearby road are some high performing Nikon and Canon's on the horizon. Time for Sony to step things up a notch.
Honestly, I'd skip the A7r5 and just get the A1, been around the block with just about everything and nothing is as compact/fast with exceptional iq like the A1 currently or for the foreseeable!
Once you start using these newer style bodies, the A1 body feels especially annoying. As good as the camera is, it does not sit right to pay for something you don’t love.

I would say the ignorance is bliss factor weighs heavily against the A1, not a lot of folks have used it, safer to spend less on camera these days, they’re all so darn powerful.
The issue you've got is with the top left dial? Other than that looks like any other gen4 body.

Maybe it's the lack of separation between photo and video setting?
The left stuff is borderline useless

switching AF->MF during video or Vice versa, impossible during a live shoot
actually very useful and so is the drive dial
have you used a non flagship camera? It’s ridiculously simple as is
the double decker dial on the right is far superior of an upgrade in practice, much easier because it is clear and concise. You know what mode of video you are on, even with the camera off
that dial is simply a mode dial which is much more static than the left dial you would need another control concentric to be of some use as a minimum drive mode and then you are left with something else for focus which will be another dial of some shape

The ergonomics of two dials are just fine
it’s not that simple

that mode switch gives you 3 custom modes for stills, 3 for video, 3 for S&Q

not only is it faster, it’s more intuitive

When dealing with shooting mode, video is tied to s firmware, photos is tied to hardware, which is the opposite of intuitive
I have no idea what you are talking about but I do not like the idea of a mode dial and autofocus dial without the drive

The drive is essential I do not want to navigate menus to tell the camera to do burst speed 2. Thats ok for a camera used for statics stuff not for a fast one
there is no menu digging involved.............
the repurposed exposure comp dial, a massive improvement. SLOG3 requires +1.7 ev, a dynamic EC is possible on the A1, if you’re willing to sacrifice that dial, not intuitive and the controls are more difficult afterwards.
not true slog3 exposes fine on the A1 where it is and if you wanted to overexpose you would do it in manual
+1.7 is EC in auto modes, that should be self explanatory, I often use other modes outside manual, like shutter and aperture priority.
Nope is a bad idea the camera exposes fine as is. The camera does have some challenges as it adjusts exposure too fast but the calculations are fine and +1.7 will clip a lot as soon as you have some light in the frame. Dialling overexposure point blank is a bad recipe on any camera system
turns out, you dont have much experience with SLOG3
i have experience with several log formats and I know how they work

when I get a nee camera i run my own tests in a controlled lightbox

i never ever overexpose unless for creative reasons once I have confirmed the camera meters correctly

slog3 has middle grey at a low 41% which in general terms is low but that is the way it is designed to be you don’t overexpose systematically otherwise you loose dynamic range

the lut maps it to 44% which is what I like in fact slog3 cine is great nothing to mess around with on this camera. Haven’t tried others ao can’t say if all implementations are the same

i have now used the camera past twilight and i see no need to make systemic corrections in fact I am near or at clipping most times as i shoot in high dynamic range situations
and yes I’ve used the a9 for a number of years and the a1 for a number of weeks. Quite frankly, I won’t go back to an EC dial body, that is the biggest annoyance. The the mode dial is less annoying, I can work with it.
There is nothing wrong with the A1 body controls actually the only ergonomics issue is the non articulated lcd and the position of the remote shutter control
i can guarantee these changes on the A7R5 regarding the body, will make it to the A1 mii in a few years, nothing wrong isn’t the same as not optimized
I do not like cameras with a single dial they are a bad idea and just good for static shooters

If there is one thing that is good about the A1 is the body controls if you don't need them probably you don't fit the use case for the camera but there is no point wanting the ergonomics to be destroyed for those who actually like the settings
since your against the EC dial, you're also against having an EXTRA LOCKABLE WHEEL? That's just silly

there is no change in the ergonomics, the EC wheel is repurposed, which you CANNOT do on the A1
That ec wheel is no use to me when I want to overexpose I shoot manual but doesn’t bother me either

the body is great as is except the lcd
again, I dont believe that you've used the newer bodies or slog3

so the old saying goes ____________ is bliss.

the new bodies are better

slog3 is typically exposed at +1.7 for high dynamic scenes, even higher for low dynamic scenes
It isn’t

you need to stop watching gerald undone and learn how log and a camera works

There is good documentation on Sony pro site read it
you work fast, you're not going to be sitting around with a grey card to expose, you let the camera do it.

here's a +1.7 in a high dynamic scene

dcdb92b5fe9f4b119cacf117d1d3c241.jpg.png

It doesn't clip

I've logged hundreds of hours with SLOG3, it's known for the high dynamic range

+1.7 is very safe, +2 is fine most the time if ok with occasional clipping
The scene you just posted has light coming from behind and as such it is simply bright while in fact is a flat low dynamic range scene. Based on this example you cannot draw any conclusions

if you look at the stops table for slog3 you can refer to lutcalc you will see that the gamma has 6 stops over middle grey and 9 below. The clipping point is 94% IRE it doesn’t reach 100% but it clips anyway

if you overexpose two stops you reduce the highlight headroom to 4 stops. This will work fine as long as your scene didn’t have more than 4 stops over middle grey to start with otherwise it will clip
in addition overexposed footage looks washed out because the highlights are heavily compressed and contain limited color information so when you bring the exposure back you end up with the classic washed out blues in the sky as seen in many video and in your example

the situation is different if the camera meters middle grey you are not clipping but the interesting part of your scene is dark, in which case you will spot meter on that part of the frame which would result in an overexposure of the entire frame but correct exposure of your subject and if the rest desaturates who cares

understanding how things work is important you can’t just follow a recipe without knowing the implications
it's not simply bright, there's a big prominant black jacket that is exposed well, and a WHITE helmet, that can clip easily, yet it's not. I will tell you that any mode outside of LOG will clip the helmet, and it probably wouldnt bother me much, the whole point is that +1.7 is safe, a tried and true number with SLOG3. That is one of the main selling points of using sony cameras, for their vast dynamic range and ease of use

along the theme of ease of use is another reason I use SLOG3 95% of the time, bright scenes, dark scenes, it doesnt matter. I dont carry a grey card and I know from experience, where the cameras tend to clip.

as for the SLOG gamma curve, it's not good on the shadows, it shifts for contrast in the dark areas, hence you dont expose it for middle grey conventionally (prior to gamma correction).

as for the scene looking "washed out", it's not, there's no application of contrast curves, it's simply a conversion lut for color, there is plenty of information in the file.

you can expose lower and pull the shadows, but if you knew that there's a curve at the bottom of SLOG, you would think twice about doing that.

as an aside..... the panasonic s5 iix...... money will part my wallet...... wowzers
Your black jacket in the example you posted looks light grey. This is what happens when you systematically overexpose

There are also other issue with that. The first one is what are you overexposing on?

If your camera is in multimetering +2 is not actually +2 if it is in spot then +2 is actually very dangerous

I am not exposing lower I am exposing correctly based on what is important

There is way too much emphasis on noise. A little bit of fine grain is fine.

In addition I shoot pixel binned 4k50 or 4k60 that has essentially zero noise some preach this does not have good image quality compared to APSC on the A1 but this is another total myth

Recipes do not work ever if you don't know exactly what they do. And once you know you make your own formula nothing like +1.6

--
instagram http://instagram.com/interceptor121
My flickr sets http://www.flickr.com/photos/interceptor121/
Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/interceptor121
Underwater Photo and Video Blog http://interceptor121.com
Deer Photography workshops https://interceptor121.com/2021/09/26/2021-22-deer-photography-workshops-in-woburn/
If you want to get in touch don't send me a PM rather contact me directly at my website/social media
 
How did you like the A7RV compared to your old Canon R5?
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top