The Verge article about A7Rv ergonomics

https://www.theverge.com/23527936/s...ess-fullframe-camera-hands-on-ergonomics-pain

I have average-sized hands, and have absolutely no problem with grips on my A7R2 and R4.

Given the variety of human hand sizes, is it even possible to design a camera grip (Verge's author main sticking point) that fits all equally?

I also find Sony camera grips rather unpleasant.

Most other cameras I've used feel better, even much smaller camera bodies.

I wouldn't pay much attention to what others say, ergonomics is personal.

Here you have someone lamenting over Canon R series ergos: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66746739

Indeed, don't pay too much attention to it. It is very personal. I have had all Sony A7R1-5 in my hands to photograph and thought is was OK from the Rii and even better from the Rv.

He's paid to write about stuff. What stuff? Doesn't matter as long as it's stuff.

For some the camera is too small, of others it's too big. For many it just has the wrong logo in front.

I've been shooting professionally with sony for over 5 years and the cameras work just fine. I prefer the smaller size so they're easier to travel with, and can be used for work or for fun.

And if I'm working and holding the camera for hours, I'll probably have the grip anyway.

So, for me, this works.

I prefer small cameras. Sony is great.

The Riv is perfectly usable but noticeably less comfortable than an OM1 - for me.

The shape of the grip is the issue.

Andrew

ZodiacPhoto said:

https://www.theverge.com/23527936/s...ess-fullframe-camera-hands-on-ergonomics-pain

I have average-sized hands, and have absolutely no problem with grips on my A7R2 and R4.

Given the variety of human hand sizes, is it even possible to design a camera grip (Verge's author main sticking point) that fits all equally?

Click to expand...

Over the years I've used everything from the first mirrorless cameras (Panasonic G1), Oly m4/3, Sony APS-C cameras to the Sony A7RIV and I've never worried about the feel of the body.

The lenses come first (all tele lenses) and the body is just a box with a shutter button and a couple of dials. The body shape and feel is way down the list compared to the lens itself once it's setup via the menu. Probably just a user case basis.

All the best and maybe just a me thing is all and it's not something I really notice to be honest.

Danny.

ZodiacPhoto said:

https://www.theverge.com/23527936/s...ess-fullframe-camera-hands-on-ergonomics-pain

I have average-sized hands, and have absolutely no problem with grips on my A7R2 and R4.

Click to expand...

I too have what I would consider to be average-sized hands (for an adult male) and I've experienced ZERO problems with the ergonomics of the grips in the Sony R-series cameras.

Since half the adult population (the female half) and all the pre-adults generally have smaller hands, I'd say the decisions Sony has made make sense for the majority of humankind.

People with larger hands or offbeat personal styles/preferences should A) use an add-on grip extender, B) select a different camera brand, C) adjust their technique, or D) write long whiney articles for theverge about their nonsensical and highly subjective/personal gripes.

ZodiacPhoto said:

Given the variety of human hand sizes, is it even possible to design a camera grip (Verge's author main sticking point) that fits all equally?

Click to expand...

Apparently not - but I'd venture that Sony has done pretty well catering to a significant majority of people.

The folks who can't seem to figure out a way to comfortably use and hold Sony's FF cameras are VERY vocal and appear to be so VERY certain that their needs/preferences should prevail. But, sadly (for them), they are in the minority. Meanwhile, the rest of us are doing just fine (just not making as much noise)! ; )

--
Former Canon, Nikon and Pentax user.
https://www.instagram.com/raycologon
https://500px.com/raycologon

ZodiacPhoto said:

Given the variety of human hand sizes, is it even possible to design a camera grip (Verge's author main sticking point) that fits all equally?

Click to expand...

Probably not.

Have to say that these rants have their points however there's simply no perfect ergo when you're holding something that is often weighing 1.5 kg with an uneven shape and centre of mass. I have a relatively big hand and I can still place my knuckles on the grip.

ZodiacPhoto said:

https://www.theverge.com/23527936/s...ess-fullframe-camera-hands-on-ergonomics-pain

I have average-sized hands, and have absolutely no problem with grips on my A7R2 and R4.

Given the variety of human hand sizes, is it even possible to design a camera grip (Verge's author main sticking point) that fits all equally?

Click to expand...

Take the article with a grain of salt. If this is all that they could nitpick on, they were paid to find a flaw and couldn't...

I'd rather add a battery grip (or 3rd party grip) then deal with an oversized grip made for giants.

I prefer the grip on my A-mount cameras (like a99ii), but the a7Rv with a VG feels just fine to me. I would not notice unless I really thought about it. There are many, many other aspects of the a7Rv I notice (and revel in).

If they can improve the grip that would be swell but I'm not going to write an article about it.

Most other brands have grips that let you grab on by clawing the fingers around. With Sony you can't do that, if you do, your finger joints will dig into the lens. This forces you to hold it differently. Almost like Sony contoured the grip curves to encourage holding it more by the tips of your finger than grasping it.

To me Sony is the least comfortable and unnatural grip to use. I've adjusted the way I hold it but still leaves my pinky kind of supporting weirdly or dangling about. At least we have the option of battery grip or bracket to help alleviate.

Sony's grip isn't that deep and the deeper curve under the shutter makes it worse. Using some sugru rubber molding glue to fill in that curve a little helps a lot with comfort.

I remember their PC building vid.

Personally grip isn't an issue for me, camera never slipped out of my hands before so I guess it did its job.

Ergonomics are personal but it's always been true there are some well defined rules designers apply to make things (not just cameras) more ergonomic to use.

Things like raised buttons to make them easier to find and with different sizes/textured to differentiate. There is a whole branch of computer science that relates to ergonomics which I am familiar with and so it is with physical design for things like cameras.

Things with bad ergonomics tend not to get used unless you have no alternative (such as a professional who is told what camera to use). So if you are a hobbyist and just hate the way your camera works I can guarantee you will eventually take less photos or just replace the camera with something else.

Does Sony have bad ergonomics by what would be perceived as the collective wisdom of designers? No I would say not. Before I got my A7 IV I has an A77 and I thought it was a great handling camera. The A7 IV has a similar looking control layout.

Earlier A7's probably failed the good design test with mushy buttons and an awkward grip but this has changed to the extent the A7 IV feels better in-hand than my A77 and one big reason it does is it is lighter.

I don't get all the negative comparisons with Nikon and Canon as the button layout on those brands is also similar.

What Sony can't seem to shake off is the early A7 design and its old menu structure despite both now being nothing like the original (old menus never bothered me personally, I got used to them). As to the article it is just rehashing this and is basically click bait in my opinion.

I think one reason they get so much heat over body ergonomics is because they basically use the exact same design for every single camera, and its very compact and angular. plus theres not much to criticise on the technology side.

controls and button customisation is very good but I don’t find my A7R3 comfortable to hold for lengthy periods, particularly with a moderate to large lens attached.

I use extra large gloves. I prefer the original A9 body size and form.

Thecylon said:

I use extra large gloves. I prefer the original A9 body size and form.

Click to expand...

Are there differences between the ergonomics of the a7Rv and the original a9 that cause you to say you prefer the original A9? If so, it would be interesting to know what they are.

Or is that not what you meant?

I am not sure exactly why, but the Nikon D850 I once borrowed felt better in my hand compared to my Sony ARIV and A7RV. Not a big difference, and I am very happy with my A7RV, but I could imagine professionls who shoot all day may hold stronger views.

The verge article suggests that the main problem is the extreme curve below the shutter button. FWIW, I decided to try a simple experiment by putting a few strips of vet tape (the sticky tape that veterinarians use for horses, etc.) for padding into the recess and then cover it with electricians tape. It's ugly, but interesting to try out. I will need a few days with it before I am convinced it is better for me (and if so, I will try to do something prettier), but so far it seems very slightly more comfortable. Your mileage will almost certainly vary.

ot looks like a nice eye cap there... could u please share the model number?