Kodak is hiring?

But the same argument could have been applied to record and cassette players. There were lots of record players and cassette decks around. But now those are stopping working - belts stretching, motors seizing etc, and manufacturers are starting to make new HiFi record players for a mass market, although I believe there are ongoing problems with getting HiFi cassette transports. So if the film resurgence isn’t a fad, but a long term trend, then new cameras are needed. Tbh before Pentax’s announcement I didn’t think a major manufacturer would even think of such a thing, and the future would be 3D printed devices like the new Alfie Tych. But for a long term future fir film photography it’s important that there are multiple manufacturer of a range of cameras, some AF, some manual focus, some compacts, some SLRs, some rangefinders etc. Otherwise any resurgence will be self limiting.
The difference is that , in audio , turntables and vinyl records never went away ;
Im not sure that film went away so I don’t see why there’s a difference ?
Some films did - look at Kodachrome , which we were discussing somewhere or other - it really was the reversal film which brought Technicolor right into your own photography , be it slide projection or cine - it was a look of the era that some of us grew up with and loved .

Also some film formats went away , sure you can still get 135 or 120 or 220 film easily enough ; but try getting some of the smaller roll film sizes , 110 or 126 cassettes , or APS or disc film ( OK I'm not sure about the last two ) but I'd think you would look hard to find some of the formats that were once very popular .

I do have a reloadable 126 cassette into which you can load 35mm film , but I haven't tried it yet ( still have my old Instamatic 500 ) .
compact cassettes also had its own market for in car use . Hence , the fad that was CD has peaked and is in decline ;
I think that’s also true for the fad that is dedicated digital cameras, but I Im in the minority at the moment. Maybe not in five years.
That may well be the case , so many people now use their phones or tablets as their sole means of photography , and even video ( and how I hate to see video shot in a pillarbox aspect ) .

However I suspect the phones replaced digital point and shoots , which in turn replaced the film compacts , be they 135 , 126 disc film or whatever , and these were themselves consumer updates on the box brownies my grandparents had - I even had an Instamatic which used drop in 126 cassettes when I was a child !

All along though , there have been pros and enthusiasts who always used pro or semi pro equipment - I don't think that will change .
the very best hi-fi systems continue to use vinyl as a primary source and there is a very competitive manufacturing industry producing ever improving equipment year on year , vinyl record sales are on the increase every year too .
High end film cameras have been made right through, like high end turntables. Low end turntables have been kicking about for the last ten years or so, it’s in the mid range that there seems to be developments.
Yes , high end stuff was always there ; the radiograms and record players with BSR auto changers dropped out of sight after the seventies ; although there were cheap audio systems with turntables for maybe another decade . But I'd say the bottom end of the turntable market fell out circa 1990 , just after CD took hold .

There were always what I'd describe as mid range turntables - things like the Pioneer PL12D which was an entry level belt drive deck costing somewhere in the mid twenties ; The Acoustic Research turntable , which was in a similar price bracket , or the likes of the Dual CS504 which was again mid priced ( I'm harking back to my early days in the hi-fi trade when a Linn LP12 could be bought on its own for under £90 though . Through the 90s and into the new millennium , companies like Rega , Dual and Pink Triangle have continued to produce decent , budget priced decks .

It is only at the real bottom end of the market that , in recent years , there has been an influx of these really cr@ppy plastic turntables with USB output , so that people with record collections gathering dust can transfer them onto their computers .
It is now reported that the market for audio CDs is effectively dead , with vinyl and to a lesser extent compact cassettes the winners as far as physical media are concerned . Of course so many people now download music , but mp3 is decidedly lo-fi , and people who put all their eggs in one basket by putting all their music files onto one hard drive will eventually rue the day they did that .

Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy playing my records .
 
Last edited:
But the same argument could have been applied to record and cassette players. There were lots of record players and cassette decks around. But now those are stopping working - belts stretching, motors seizing etc, and manufacturers are starting to make new HiFi record players for a mass market, although I believe there are ongoing problems with getting HiFi cassette transports. So if the film resurgence isn’t a fad, but a long term trend, then new cameras are needed.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ii_professional_rack_mount_dual_cassette.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1312109-REG/tascam_cd_a580_multi_purpose_cd_cassette_usb.html
Firstly I’d better say I’m not that into cassettes, but when I went looking for a new cassette deck I found the following

“There's basically only one mechanism left that's still produced - Tanashin mechanism. And it is used virtually everywhere. Ultra-cheap awful-sounding mono boomboxes use it. Tascam 202 MKVII in question uses it. There might be some variability in implementation, but still... chances are that those people who wrote what you read will say the same about this Tascam. The mechanism is not really that bad, but it definitely won't win any prizes compared to what is available in the devices from the cassette heyday.” ( https://www.tapeheads.net/threads/tascam-202-mkvii-new-tapedeck-is-it-any-good.82252/ )

But when I read a review of the Tascam they did make a point of saying that the transport was made to Tascam’s spec - https://www.techhive.com/article/583314/tascam-202mkvii-review.html
Hmm, interesting!
Now I’ve gone down the rabbit hole - turns out the cassette users are having exactly the same conversation - https://www.tapeheads.net/threads/new-high-quality-cassette-decks-imminent.94794/

“I think cassette is in a similar situation. The original talent is just barely hanging on and the equipment is almost all destroyed. Sure, right now there are plenty of [Nakamichi cassette players] around for $500, but if this effort were start 10, 20 years from now, when HiFi cassette decks start dropping like flies, I don't think it would be possible.

I suggest that there is only a small window when cassette decks and cassette tapes can restart production. For the long-term survivability of the community, it would be good to support efforts now”
In my case not an issue because I'm all digital with my music files. I use .flac for listening through my home system and .mp3 for the car and iPhone.

I do have friends with hundreds of cassette tapes that would be interested in a high quality cassette deck.

I still use physical media for my movie collection, DVD & Blu-ray.
I still primarily listen to records , of which I have a couple of thousand vinyl albums , I also used to record musical friends a lot , so have a significant number of 7 inch and 10-1/2inch reels , which I used to dub onto cassettes for people . Cassettes , for me , were mainly for listening in the car , but I do still have a lot of them , including a fair number of type IV metal cassettes with either Dolby C or Dolby S encoding , and I had the appropriate kit in the car to play them ; before CD changers became the thing , and again , for me that was my main use for CD - I used to buy original discs , which remained in the house , and made copies to play in the car - if they got trashed , I'd just make another .

I do now have a fair amount of downloaded ( or ripped ) music , on primary and backup hard drives , which can be dumped into my phone for playing in the car , but I stick with AIFF since the difference between that and mp3 is clearly audible even in the car .

While I have a fair sized collection of movies on DVD and Blu Ray , I do download and store them these days , but every hard drive has a backup drive to it because failures are far from unknown - I just replaced two 4Tb drives in one of my enclosures the other week , then restored from the backup .
 
"There were always what I'd describe as mid range turntables - things like the Pioneer PL12D which was an entry level belt drive deck costing somewhere in the mid twenties"

(about 1£ = 2 USD at the time)

I had a look at the original cost of that Pioneer turntable .

I found these two comments

"Here is one sweet turntable made by Pioneer model PL-12D Series II. Originally this turntable sold for $99.95 in 1974 and was termed a "Giant Killer"

(from the US, that is a bit over $600 now)

US ad from 1975

c20a2c80bfc14c5d8c6d38c9b60a1172.jpg

and

"The Selling Price 1974 in Germany was 400,- DM, that was a lot of Money for the Time, the most People became 800 - 1000 DM per Month in 1974."

( I was in London at the time. I paid about 2 weeks wage for a 3 in 1 with the entry level Garrard turntable by buying it directly from someone that imported them (no brand...) and sold them from its house. around £15-20 less than something like that from the Tottenham Cr Road retailers. )

BTW, the US price is tax ex , VAT was 10% in the UK at the time and probably a similar rate in Germany .
 
Last edited:
"There were always what I'd describe as mid range turntables - things like the Pioneer PL12D which was an entry level belt drive deck costing somewhere in the mid twenties"

(about 1£ = 2 USD at the time)

I had a look at the original cost of that Pioneer turntable .

I found these two comments

"Here is one sweet turntable made by Pioneer model PL-12D Series II. Originally this turntable sold for $99.95 in 1974 and was termed a "Giant Killer"

(from the US, that is a bit over $600 now)

US ad from 1975

c20a2c80bfc14c5d8c6d38c9b60a1172.jpg

and

"The Selling Price 1974 in Germany was 400,- DM, that was a lot of Money for the Time, the most People became 800 - 1000 DM per Month in 1974."

( I was in London at the time. I paid about 2 weeks wage for a 3 in 1 with the entry level Garrard turntable by buying it directly from someone that imported them (no brand...) and sold them from its house. around £15-20 less than something like that from the Tottenham Cr Road retailers. )
So , you'd be talking about a music centre , with an SP25 - effectively a full system with turntable , cassette deck , tuner and amplifier , plus speakers - not just a turntable on its own - and at London prices , which always were and still are inflated compared to elsewhere in the UK , so no wonder you paid more for it .
BTW, the US price is tax ex , VAT was 10% in the UK at the time and probably a similar rate in Germany .
The Mk II was in every way inferior to the original PL12D : lighter platter , cast not machined and the lid was thinner and worse perspex , without the handle that was built into the original .

We sold them retail for £20 odds , inclusive of VAT ; I know because I bought one , and the Shure M75EDII cartridge I bought along with it was about £15 .

At the same time , you could have a Linn LP12 , without arm , for £86 , and the Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference , which was my next turntable , was £120 .

No way was the PL12D anything like £50 in 1974 , not here in the UK , more like £25 , and I think a bit less . We sold so many of them because it was one of the cheapest entry level turntables available at the time . I was still at school then and my wage for working on a Saturday was about £3 , enough to buy an LP record if I blew it all at once - It only took me a few weeks of saving to buy the PL12D ; this was circa 1974/1975

There were cheaper , like the Connoisseur BD1 , which we sold for around £11 at the time , without arm , and the BD2 which was around £15 with a very rudimentary arm .

Panasonic/Technics had something very similar , but it was not as good a deck as the Pioneer .
 
Last edited:
"No way was the PL12D anything like £50 in 1974 , not here in the UK , more like £25"

I find it hard to believe they were $100 USD (plus sales tax...) in the USA but £25 in the UK.....

The same for the Connoisseur BD2 that you were selling for £15 was $140 in the US.

very strange.

 
Last edited:
This is an interesting thread. Thanks for everyone's input.

The way I look at it is something like buying and driving an antique car: you pay a premium for one in good shape (the rarer, the pricier), but there are still those that are worthwhile fixing or that can still drive short distances (but you wouldn't trust on a long trip). Most of those collectors are able to do basic repairs themselves, and some are willing to take the time to learn what's needed to keep the car running past this generation.

Now when it comes to cameras, mechanical parts are easy enough to replace or even replicated by skilled technicians -- computerized parts are cost prohibitive unless spare parts are available. In the case of units that sold well (e.g. Canon AE-1, Pentax ME, Nikon FE), then spare parts are easier to find than, say, those for a Pentax LX or Contax RTS. A winder lever could be re-tooled, but a ribbon cable or chip may be next to impossible to find.

My favourite 35mm ever was the Canon New F-1. I used two of them for years, but kept my FT-Bn backup body because it will outlast me. It was rebuilt 20 years ago and only needs the minimum of maintenance, but it's as reliable today as it was 50 years ago. I can say the same about my Nikon F2A (my main film camera today).

So, long story short: a good, used camera will likely outlast a new electronic (and likely more expensive) 35mm. If whoever decides to build a new mechanical camera, expect Leica-like prices as they will certainly be built (mainly) by hand and in small quantities. Is it worth it if the end result is the same? I don't think so, especially as there are excellent (old) choices currently available -- the money you save can be put into film, processing, available lenses and trips to get you where you want to take photos!
 
"No way was the PL12D anything like £50 in 1974 , not here in the UK , more like £25"

I find it hard to believe they were $100 USD (plus sales tax...) in the USA but £25 in the UK.....

The same for the Connoisseur BD2 that you were selling for £15 was $140 in the US.

very strange.

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archi...iFI-Stereo/SPECIALS/Stereo-Directory-1975.pdf
I'm astounded at some of the prices in that magazine , no doubt shipping ( for european products ) plus several middle men each taking their cut , then import duties and the exchange rates must have made prices so inflated over there .

The Connoisseur decks really were the cheapest of the cheap , sold almost as DIY kits . The other entry level turntables were all around the £20-£30 mark , and we sold shed loads of them . You could get a Linn Sondek for £86 , and our most expensive turntable was the Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference at £120 ( that came with a pickup arm at that price , but the Sondek didn't ; we sold a lot of SME Series 2 arms , both fixed headshell and detachable , from memory for about £70 or £80 at the time ) . Later , when I bought my Hydraulic Ref turntable , initially with the fluid arm , I replaced it with the SME Series III when it came out - I remember that was about £130 at launch .

Looking at other products - tape recorders for example - the Sony TC-377 is listed at $400 ; sold for about £120 ; I paid around £100 for mine ; then later on I replaced it with a Revox A77 MkIII ( which I still have ) and I clearly remember we sold them for £249.95 , but with my staff discount I paid around £200 ; later on , when I decided to get a B77 , before they stopped making them , I got a B77 MkII half track , high speed and got 5p change out of £2000 , but that was in the late 80s , and by then I no longer worked in the trade - so no discount !

In cassette decks , we sold a fair few of the ones listed ; I can recall Technics with an entry level top loader well under £100 , the RS 610 listed in your magazine sold for around £100 and the RS-676 was a little over £200 , as was the top loading RS 276 with direct drive captain motor ; it was the two head version of the RS-279 , which we never sold but I subsequently obtained one of and still have both . Oddly , I remember the nakamichi 700 being around £700 , which oddly is also the dollar price in your magazine ; I bought a used one many years later . Also of note there are the heath AD-1530 , with Wollensak transport , which sold as the NEAL 102 here , and there is also an Advent deck with the same transport listed - I don't recall what the NEAL sold for , but the police bought a lot of them for use in interview rooms .

Looking at amplifiers , there aren't so many listed that I can compare directly - my first stereo amplifier was a Sony TA-1010 which had something less than 15 wpc rms , but sold for a little over £20 ; then there was the now very collectable TA-88 and ST-88 tuner ( the one with the circular dial ) which was just a little bit more ; there was also a cheaper TA-70 and ST-70 which was just junk . Your magazine does list the TA-1150 at $269.50 ; we sold those for around £100 , also there was the SQD-2020 Quadraphonic decoder and a second power amplifier for the rear channels - the decoder cost around the same as the amplifier and the power amp was a bit less - all this is from memory going back 50 years ! Sadly , your magazine does not list Quad or Sugden , of which we sold a lot . It runs in my mind the Quad 33/303 sold for somewhere north of £200 , and the original A48 was a little cheaper . I remember when the Quad 405 came out , I bought the first one and remember paying £120 for it , but that was my discounted price , can't remember what I paid for the preamp .

In tuner/amplifiers , we sold a lot of Pioneer from the SX-434 ( which was very popular ) right up to the SX-1010 ( I remember selling a 1010 to one customer along with a pair of tannoy Ardens , and when we delivered them he was in a small terraced house with a tiny living room they barely fitted into - I did suggest something smaller would suit better but he was happy . Also sold a lot of Sony , Yamaha , Technics and the odd Marantz tuner amps , the marantz was because they made one with Quadraphonic decoder built in .

In loudspeakers , there was lots of choice and of course we had all the British makes : KEF , Celef , B&W , Castle , IMF , Quad , Tannoy , plus a few imports . There was a plentiful choice under £100 , and that included my KEFKIT 3s which I had for a good many years . The most expensive speakers we had back then were the IMF TLS80s , which were about £700 ; the Quad Electrostatics ( ESL57s) at the same time were about half that price . We once got in a pair of JBL L200s which a customer specially ordered , they were very expensive , and we sold a few pairs of the L100s which were also pricey , but you had to have a taste for the sound they produced .

Certainly , from what I can see in that magazine , Hi-Fi was a LOT more expensive in the USA back then than it was here ; I'm often astounded at prices asked for things on eBay nowadays , compared to what they originally cost - another example there is my Sennheisser HD424 headphones , which were just over £20 back then ( the cheaper HD 414 was something like £14 ) , yet look on eBay now and people ask hundreds for them - there is a pair in Japan right now with an asking price of over £400 !
 
Last edited:
Hard to find prices but it looks like your shop sold at half or less compered with other UK shops.

For example :Looking at amplifiers , there aren't so many listed that I can compare directly - my first stereo amplifier was a Sony TA-1010 which had something less than 15 wpc rms , but sold for a little over £20 ;

this is the ad from the Sony importers at the time :

eb1f8eed78b2400d8793c6bfed6b0c64.jpg

and this is a Lasky's ad

0e6e11ec7c9d419093176de96fdaebff.jpg

(for those not in the UK , Lasky's was one of the largest Hi Fi retail groups at the time with 31 shops)

BTW, the £ 7.95 discount from the RRP may not sound like much but I was taking home £25 per week at the time.

( I would not want someone that is searching for Hi Fi prices in the 70s to think that Japanese made Hi Fi sold in the UK for half or less of the USA prices)
 
Last edited:
Hard to find prices but it looks like your shop sold at half or less compered with other UK shops.

For example :Looking at amplifiers , there aren't so many listed that I can compare directly - my first stereo amplifier was a Sony TA-1010 which had something less than 15 wpc rms , but sold for a little over £20 ;

this is the ad from the Sony importers at the time :

eb1f8eed78b2400d8793c6bfed6b0c64.jpg

and this is a Lasky's ad

0e6e11ec7c9d419093176de96fdaebff.jpg

(for those not in the UK , Lasky's was one of the largest Hi Fi retail groups at the time with 31 shops)

BTW, the £ 7.95 discount from the RRP may not sound like much but I was taking home £25 per week at the time.

( I would not want someone that is searching for Hi Fi prices in the 70s to think that Japanese made Hi Fi sold in the UK for half or less of the USA prices)
Back then , I was a student with a Saturday job in the hi-fi shop ( plus summer holidays ) . I started out getting paid £3 for a Saturday shift while still at school , by the time I proved that I could sell stuff and had moved on to Uni , my wage went up to £5 .

On that income there was no way I would have afforded to spend anything like £50 on an amplifier , or a turntable ; evan at £20 odds I still had to save for weeks to get them .

I also clearly recall the TA-1010 was cheaper than the TA-88 , which was not as good an amplifier , but we sold a lot of them with the matching ST-88 tuner , which replaced the ST-80F shown in your advert .

Also interesting to note how cheap the Quad kit was back then with the 33 preamp only being £50 or so and the ESL57s still being sold individually for around £80 . I know by the time I got my 33/405 the price was more like £200 and the ESL57s latterly sold for around £350
 
So what you are saying is that those ads,both from 1975, are wrong and your memory is correct.

The reason why you were "astaunded" at those US prices isn't because they sold Hi Fi there at twice or more of the UK price .
 
Last edited:
Hmm , I know that when I got my Mercedes R129 , it was reported that each seat , with its titanium frame , cost about the same to make as it cost Volkswagen to make a whole Golf !
This is one I haven't heard of, and it's interesting -- I have to look it up. The parts may be more expensive, but the labor cost to install the seat is the same for a Golf as it is for a Mercedes.

Aaron
 
But the same argument could have been applied to record and cassette players. There were lots of record players and cassette decks around. But now those are stopping working - belts stretching, motors seizing etc, and manufacturers are starting to make new HiFi record players for a mass market, although I believe there are ongoing problems with getting HiFi cassette transports. So if the film resurgence isn’t a fad, but a long term trend, then new cameras are needed.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ii_professional_rack_mount_dual_cassette.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1312109-REG/tascam_cd_a580_multi_purpose_cd_cassette_usb.html
Firstly I’d better say I’m not that into cassettes, but when I went looking for a new cassette deck I found the following

“There's basically only one mechanism left that's still produced - Tanashin mechanism. And it is used virtually everywhere. Ultra-cheap awful-sounding mono boomboxes use it. Tascam 202 MKVII in question uses it. There might be some variability in implementation, but still... chances are that those people who wrote what you read will say the same about this Tascam. The mechanism is not really that bad, but it definitely won't win any prizes compared to what is available in the devices from the cassette heyday.” ( https://www.tapeheads.net/threads/tascam-202-mkvii-new-tapedeck-is-it-any-good.82252/ )

But when I read a review of the Tascam they did make a point of saying that the transport was made to Tascam’s spec - https://www.techhive.com/article/583314/tascam-202mkvii-review.html
Hmm, interesting!
Now I’ve gone down the rabbit hole - turns out the cassette users are having exactly the same conversation - https://www.tapeheads.net/threads/new-high-quality-cassette-decks-imminent.94794/

“I think cassette is in a similar situation. The original talent is just barely hanging on and the equipment is almost all destroyed. Sure, right now there are plenty of [Nakamichi cassette players] around for $500, but if this effort were start 10, 20 years from now, when HiFi cassette decks start dropping like flies, I don't think it would be possible.

I suggest that there is only a small window when cassette decks and cassette tapes can restart production. For the long-term survivability of the community, it would be good to support efforts now”
In my case not an issue because I'm all digital with my music files. I use .flac for listening through my home system and .mp3 for the car and iPhone.

I do have friends with hundreds of cassette tapes that would be interested in a high quality cassette deck.

I still use physical media for my movie collection, DVD & Blu-ray.
There are people still using cassettes as a primary listening medium though (not just for digitising). Unopened TDK MA-R cassettes (a blank “metal” tape in a metal housing) are selling for £100, and even used ones are selling for £40 ( so it’s not a collector thing ).

And Taylor Swift is releasing music on cassette - https://storeuk.taylorswift.com/*/Music-Products/Midnights-Cassette/7JS41VW2000

Tbh I find the resurgence of film far far less unexpected than cassettes (and even 8-track apparently !)
Coincidentally, I can add that music in the style of old school 80'ties heavy metal being made today, it is very common to release cassette albums as well as vinyls. Though, that specific style of music is rather niche today :)
 
I don't think we need any new film cameras, there are so many available on eBay that represent state of the art in analogue photography. (And if one breaks, I will try and get it repaired rather than sell it for parts and get another copy). What we need is cheap film and quick and cheap film developers. At the moment, I have to wait three weeks to get my film developed and there are only two or three affordable colour 35mm films.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top