I'm referring to OMS / JIP. If anybody over there has the lights on.
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Do you think there will ever be a 24 or 30mp sensor in m43?
- Thread starter mfinley
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just continuing our friendly discussion…
certain companies get acquired so that the buyers can utilize the intellectual properties for realizing the latter’s long-term strategies — which are not obvious at the time of purchase — in fact, the more obcure the intent, the better leverage at the negotiation table
Sony acquired Minolta and have since flourished on its own strategic path, ultilizing Minolta expertise, while Minolta and its past inventions disappeared
JIP/OMS is a for-profit business entity — it must make decisions for its profitable survival
Olympus did not ask their customers’ permission for selling its MFT camera/lens business. Panasonic did not ask their customers’ permission for expanding into FF and focusing more on video with MFT products. Certain people apparently love their GM1 and GM5 to bit, but Panasonic just stops creating the successors to those products
Ditto Canon and Nikon when they abandon EF and F mounts, respectively
OMS still has a long way ahead, beyond the single OM-1 product (admittedly competent and most likely designed by Olympus engineers before the sale was finalized). Who knows what OMS strategically plans to do next — with or without MFT
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P
ProDude
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30mp is somewhat of a sweet spot I'd say. I could live with that.
Mark Ransom
Veteran Member
I could live with it too, but if it's just as easy for them to provide more I'll take more.
Mathematically I think the best increase would be 26% because every third generation would be an exact doubling. 41% would give it to you after two generations, but that would be greedy.
Perhaps the best in this case would be a 28% increase which would be 32mp, double the old 16mp.
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unhappymeal
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Cropping headroom and downsampling.
Not enough volume to make up for development costs. That's why all the makers have focused on increasing their profit margins instead of trying to go for volume at low prices.
Bassam Guy
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Well, mfinley, you have the answer to your question "do you think there will ever be a 24mp or 30mp sensor in m43?".Did they look 'fine' or was there an improvement versus the best 20mp m43 cameras?But it did give stills improvements, we got a higher resolution sensor. And I did read your "explanation" which was not a part of your original question.No, I'm laughing because I replied to your statement about GH6 was addresed in the thread already."Yes the GH6 has a 25mp sensor but not really in the true sense of my question as it is not giving us any stills improvements."
This must be what you're laughing at.
Instead of reading the thread, you replied by asking the same question again.
Did you want me to just repeat to read the thread again?
Resolution is a part of stills photography, which the gh6 did improve on. Can't say there was no improvement. I've looked at gh6 sample images, they look fine to me.
If you can do something on your own, go to the DPR test scene and pit the GH6 and the OM-1 against each other and tell me about the image quality gains again. I don't see them and nobody else does.
And I certainly don't want to carry around an M43 camera to shoot stills that is 30% heavier and bigger than it needs to be because it is built around a fan for video cooling.
- 25mp in the GH6 is close enough, slightly surpassing 24MP, so that answer is YES. Whether you like the GH6 for whatever uses you have is irrelevant. It is the only MFT camera with a sensor within 3MP of 24.
- 30MP, nobody knows, not even Panasonic or OMDS. Sony, the usual sensor maker, may have an idea but I doubt anyone you'll encounter in this forum is privy to that.
Bassam Guy
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Which camera(s) were compared?I did, performance in terms of noise looks about the same when you display them at the same size. There is a slight resolution improvement due to the the very simple fact the gh6 has a higher mp count. You specifically said it doesn't give any stills improvements. That's simply false. Does it radically improve things? No but that's not what you asked.Did they look 'fine' or was there an improvement versus the best 20mp m43 cameras?But it did give stills improvements, we got a higher resolution sensor. And I did read your "explanation" which was not a part of your original question.No, I'm laughing because I replied to your statement about GH6 was addresed in the thread already."Yes the GH6 has a 25mp sensor but not really in the true sense of my question as it is not giving us any stills improvements."
This must be what you're laughing at.
Instead of reading the thread, you replied by asking the same question again.
Did you want me to just repeat to read the thread again?
Resolution is a part of stills photography, which the gh6 did improve on. Can't say there was no improvement. I've looked at gh6 sample images, they look fine to me.
If you can do something on your own, go to the DPR test scene and pit the GH6 and the OM-1 against each other and tell me about the image quality gains again. I don't see them and nobody else does.
Just because you can't seem to acknowledge there was a resolution improvement doesn't mean the new mft sensor in the gh6 didn't bring any improvements. Not to mention the 100mp hhhr in the gh6 can significantly reduce noise in more static scenes with quite good motion compensation.
Again, not part of your original question, you were purely taking about the sensor, not the body. There is a possibility the gh6 sensor may appear in smaller bodies in the future with reduced video capabilities.
Just the om-1. I saw a little more colour noise (enough that it was noticeable when you really look). But when you compare the 2 at the same size there's very little difference in terms of noise.Which camera(s) were compared?I did, performance in terms of noise looks about the same when you display them at the same size. There is a slight resolution improvement due to the the very simple fact the gh6 has a higher mp count. You specifically said it doesn't give any stills improvements. That's simply false. Does it radically improve things? No but that's not what you asked.Did they look 'fine' or was there an improvement versus the best 20mp m43 cameras?But it did give stills improvements, we got a higher resolution sensor. And I did read your "explanation" which was not a part of your original question.No, I'm laughing because I replied to your statement about GH6 was addresed in the thread already."Yes the GH6 has a 25mp sensor but not really in the true sense of my question as it is not giving us any stills improvements."
This must be what you're laughing at.
Instead of reading the thread, you replied by asking the same question again.
Did you want me to just repeat to read the thread again?
Resolution is a part of stills photography, which the gh6 did improve on. Can't say there was no improvement. I've looked at gh6 sample images, they look fine to me.
If you can do something on your own, go to the DPR test scene and pit the GH6 and the OM-1 against each other and tell me about the image quality gains again. I don't see them and nobody else does.
Just because you can't seem to acknowledge there was a resolution improvement doesn't mean the new mft sensor in the gh6 didn't bring any improvements. Not to mention the 100mp hhhr in the gh6 can significantly reduce noise in more static scenes with quite good motion compensation.
Again, not part of your original question, you were purely taking about the sensor, not the body. There is a possibility the gh6 sensor may appear in smaller bodies in the future with reduced video capabilities.
Mark Ransom
Veteran Member
I have a 4K TV, and a 4K blu-ray player to drive it. I've bought a few 4K discs to go with it. To this day I haven't noticed any difference between a normal 2K blu-ray and a 4K.
No doubt you're right, 8K TVs will become the norm - because that's what TV manufacturers do. They keep on coming up with excuses to make you feel like your old gear is inadequate, so you'll upgrade and part with some hard earned. But you won't do it for the improved experience, it will just be FOMO.
I guarantee that 20mp image will look just fine on the 8K TV, even if it needs to be upressed to fit the screen.
cba_melbourne
Veteran Member
TV's are primarily intended to watch movies, and maybe some phone stills. There is a huge difference between a 4K or 8K TV, and a 4K graphic arts monitor primarily intended to watch still pictures. I believe that if someone invests in a system stills camera, a good quality graphic arts monitor capable of 10 bit color, preferably 4K, and with a calibration device to go with it, should be a no-brainer. Yes it will cost more than many much larger 8K TV, but it it will provide a far superior IQ for stills.
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Messier Object
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But your OP question made no mention of "stills improvements".
you made no mention of size or weight or what you see as the "purpose" of MFT
Comparison with other cameras was also not mentioned in your OP
Quite a strange thread where a question is asked and correct answer is offered by several respondents only to be dismissed by the OP as not the answer he was looking for :-(
Peter
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At first, I thought the OP was a well-intentioned question. It's clear now that the intent all along was to troll Panasonic users. Oh well, back to producing beautiful stills with my horrible 25mp sensor.
tedolf
Forum Pro
Use the right focal length and you don't need to crop (much).
Isn't that what zoom lenses are for?
Why do I need to downsample?
Tedolph
Don't pout over it too much, in life things change a little here and there it's just the way it is. If it crushed you, I apologize for this trama.
Panasonic is basically a video company at this point, if you think a fat and heavy m43 camera that included a fan for video is dedicated to still photography...well okay that's interesting. Sorry you feel 'trolled' as a panasonic cheerleader, but I'm guessing anything critical of your chosen camera is taken personally by you. Don't take any of this too hard, it's just a question on the internet, it won't actually affect your life in any way.
By-the-way, the Panasonic sensor has not been labeled as horrible, just a failed potential improvement, if you look at the DPR studio view you see it looks close to the 20mp OM-1 sensor results so not horrible, just nothing special for the trade-off in weight and size you have to put up with without any still image gains in a camera that panasonic says video users are more important to them than stills shooters.
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Thanks,
Mike
https://www.travel-curious.com
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unhappymeal
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I don't always have my PL 200 f/2.8 and TCs on me. Sometimes it's unavoidable needing (or wanting) to crop.
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pipituni
Leading Member
sorry but that sounds the same as those that couldn't tell the difference between HD and SD, and then FHD and HD
if i'm watching 4k content for a while and then go back to FHD, the difference is immediately noticeable
granted the improvements are less obvious with each upgrade but they're visible
finnan haddie
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Yeah, he who is unhappy because he didn't bring the right tools for the job, might feel the need to diminish image quality by substantial cropping.
For composition I much prefer zooms with appropriate FoV over cropping. So cropping just for desired aspect ratio when necessary, to maintain image quality.
DLBlack
Forum Pro
The GH6 has a 25MP sensor. So already there is a MFT camera with more than 20MP.
I am guessing OMDS will release an OM-3 that sits between the OM-1 and the OM-5 and will have a new non-stacked but BSI sensor with more than 20MP. Most likely late 2023.
I am guessing OMDS will release an OM-3 that sits between the OM-1 and the OM-5 and will have a new non-stacked but BSI sensor with more than 20MP. Most likely late 2023.
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